Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Group Forum: Wilderness Challenges :: 2011 Wilderness Challenges #3 (Reservations Please)
|
Author | Message Text | ||
Mad_Angler |
First, I usually trip with my family. But this time ,we're just 4 guys. That makes things a bit different. I'd try to be calm and make friends. I'd state that we assumed the PFD was left by the the last group. We're already set up and it is getting late. I'd offer to have them join us (I don't really care about the max-group size regulation. This was not intentional.) If they're really a$4s and insist that we leave. I'd probably turn into a similar a$$ and insist they move on. I hope the other 3 guys in group a really big... |
||
fly4trout |
I can respect those that would not risk the confrontation with these "Bullies", but I can assure you my "Larry" and I have the "High Ground" and We Will Not Be Leaving. There is "Right" and "Wrong" and far be it for Larry and I to pass up the chance to educate someone on these. I look at this way....Maybe if we educate them, it will be less problems for others in the future. May just add to the adventure........ |
||
drnatus |
I'd be happy to give them the pfd. This could get ugly. Personally, I trip with 7 others (8 total). All adult males. I would suspect it is unlikely that anyone would want to mess with us. |
||
Beemer01 |
I did encounter something similar to this once up on Knife - I saw the flag, assumed it was an attempt to reserve the site and I moved on, not wanting such a discussion. This is the dismay of my friends who were utterly gassed at this point and would have camped anywhere. In this particular case I'd offer to share the site, I would not break down my camp to accomodate them. |
||
jonoester |
On the other hand, if I refused to give up the site I would unlikely offer to share the site if they were rude. |
||
mr.barley |
|
||
520eek |
|
||
Canoearoo |
BTW you are not in a BWCA park; you are in the BWCA wilderness area. On a side note; we were once on a campsite with a wonderful jumping cliff. In mid day a group of teens came over, didn't say anything to us; walked right through our campsite and started jumping off the cliff right in front of us. If it was just me I would have done nothing as I HATE confrontation. But our friend found there group leader, explained we had small kids around camp and nicely asked them to leave; to which they did. |
||
butthead |
butthead |
||
jcavenagh |
I did begin to write in my original post that we might offer to share "If the folks seem like OK people, then we might offer to share." It seems many of you share that opinion. I also assumed the party would be spending only 1 night, so sharing wouldn't be that big a problem. A visit to the ranger cabin is a good alternative in this case. Surely the ranger could resolve the issue, if needed. I really would not look for a fight and would try to resolve the issue without conflict. |
||
CaptainJack |
No, seriously. I take 2 minutes to size up the situation and the individuals. If they really want to be jerks about it I pack up and move on. I don't take a week of hard earned vacation, drive 14 hours, and paddle away from civilization just to spend an uncomfortable evening with a crew of people like them. |
||
jcavenagh |
(We deal with this issue every winter in Chicago where people think that an old chair or sawhorse placed in a parking spot on the street gives them title to that spot.) We are not going to pack up and move anywhere. There is no “dibs” in the BWCA. If you take a campsite, you set up your gear, and establish yourself there, i.e. you CAMP at the site. Leaving a PFD is simply insufficient to occupy a campsite. I would give them the PFD and say Sorry, but this is our campsite. One would expect that the late arrivers have all their gear in their canoes since you found no other gear at the site. That is just further indication that the site was not claimed. It also makes it easier for them to keep moving and find another campsite. The scenario does not indicate the size of the site, but a few sites can accommodate two parties of 4. You might offer to share the site, since you know there are no other sites available. If everyone is OK with that then the problem is solved. Hopefully, they will consider their options and leave to find another site. |
||
AndySG |
I arrive at camp and see the PFD. Like others, I would figure it was forgotten and I would check to see if it was labeled, and then put it with my gear waiting for someone to claim it. If not claimed, I would plan to leave it when I left. When confronted by the fishermen, I'd ask if they could identify said PFD which was now out of sight. If they positively ID the PFD, I return it to them and explain that leaving such does not "reserve" a campsite, but we would be willing to accommodate them for the night. If they can't ID the PFD, I'd say we never saw any such PFD and tell them to either share the site or move on. If they become belligerent and insist we leave, I'd refuse and calmly challenge them to make us leave while picking up a good sized chunk rock. I'd also tell my fellow stooges that these boys want to rumble so grab a weapon. If they pull guns, I still wouldn't back down. I'd rather get my ass whipped than cave to a bunch of bullies. |
||
BearBrown |
I would try to be clear and calm with them. Explain that we found the pfd and assumed that someone had lost it at the site. I would explain that hanging pfd at a site doesn't express ownership of that site in any sort of way. An acceptable way would to claim one would be to set up a tent or leave some packs there or something more than a single item that looks left behind. Hell, a note left with the pfd would have sufficed. Depending on their attitude at this point, I feel I have three options: watch them paddle away with their pfd and wish them luck finding a site, allow them to share the site with us, or ask them to wait in their canoes until our group could pack up and go. Packing up and leaving is my last option but if they are drunk, violent, armed or continue to insist that this is their site and 'we' can't share it with them, I will move. This would suck but I definitely don't need a violent confrontation in the middle of the wilderness. I will find our group an open enough area where we can spend the night if no other sites are available, and I will pack up at first light the next day. If things are getting violent, and there is no way to calm the situation I wouldn't hesitate a second to pull my sheath knife out and use it. Better them than me or my friends. |
||
BWPaddler |
|
||
jcavenagh |
|
||
Beemer01 |
Anyhow fishing out of a canoe packed with gear can be a hassle anyhow. :-) |
||
GSP |
Now and then some sites get "reserved" by people leaving a empty tent for the next party in the busy areas. |
||
bojibob |
Wilderness Challenge #3 “Reservations Please” Situation: You are traveling in a party of 4 (Combined crew weight of 800 lbs) in two rental Old Town Penobscot 17 foot Royalex Canoes (max load weight of 1100-1150 Lbs). You are carrying 4 large packs, 4 smaller personal packs and misc. fishing gear with a total gear weight of approximately 350 lbs split evenly between the two canoes. You do not have a cell/SAT phone or PLB/SPOT Additional Situation Information: •This is Day 2 of a planned 8 Day Trip to the BWCA Park. •This Trip has been in the planning stage for over 2 years. •The Crew: ~ Curly: Average Outdoorsman/Canoeist. Trips: 3. ~ Mo: Average Outdoorsman/Canoeist. Trips 3. ~ Larry: Expert Outdoorsman/Canoeist. Trips 40+ many of which were solo. ~ Harry: Rookie Outdoorsman/Canoeist. Trips: First Timer Available: The Challenge: You started yesterday at the Mudro Lake Entry Point and camped last night on Horse Lake. Today you have traveled up the Horse River and are planning on Camping at one of the sites near Lower Basswood Falls. As you arrive in the area you see most of the sites on the U.S. and Canadian sides are full. You spot one site that appears open. (See Map) As you land at the site you see a PFD hanging on a tree. Since there is no other gear on the site. It “appears” that someone has forgotten it. As it’s getting late in the day you immediately proceed to set up your tents and gather fire wood for cooking dinner. After getting the tents up and the fire going you see two canoes with 4 trippers approaching from the direction of the falls. As the canoe gets closer, one of the guys screams out “Hey You Guys are on our Site!!” You explain that no one was here and it’s your site! They state that they left a PFD there to reserve the site while they went fishing and you guys need to “Pack Up and Move On!” What now? |
||
Troutman |
|
||
PineKnot |
Seems too late in the day to find another campsite. The other party is clearly in the wrong here, but may not be worth going to war over. Invite them in for a nice fire and offer up some food and drink. Maybe their not the a-holes their first impression holds. Might work out. Then again, if the other party turns belligerent, and if my paddling partners were truly Larry, Curly and Moe, I'd let than have at it...could be fun to watch! They are indestructible, right? :-) |
||
gsfisher13 |
|
||
Savage Voyageur |
A PFD does not save anything. They come in with their mouths a blazing, Hey you guys are in our site, pack up and move on. I would not invite them in after this. Tell them to move on. |
||
tony |
tony |
||
BWPaddler |
|
||
canoe212 |
|
||
Amok |
Them: "That's our site. We left a PFD here earlier." Me: "What PFD?" Them: "uh.... ummmmm...... the one we left RIGHT THERE WHERE YOU'RE STANDING!" Me: "I don't see a PFD here. Did any of you guys see a PFD here?" Curly: "Nope." Larry: "Uh-uh" Moe: "What's a PFD?" Them: "oh, crap..." Me: "Have a nice night!" |
||
Chilly |
This scenario has taught me that if I ever see a PFD in a tree when arriving at an unoccupied campsite to quickly toss it in the water and let it float away before people like this try to explain there idiocy. With out the pdf there story holds no water and if someone simply forgot their pdf when they packed up and left camp that day they wouldn't be coming back at sundown to retrieve it. |
||
solotrek |
Interesting one! First of all, if I saw a PFD hanging in a tree in plain site, my first thought wouldn't necessarily be that someone forgot it. If it was back in the site out of view of others in the water, then I might think it was forgotten. If I felt it was forgotten, I would do what most everyone else would do. I would invite them in or send them on depending upon their attitude. If I felt that it left by someone who was coming back to occupy the site, I would move on. |
||
canoe212 |
|
||
NDCanoe |
Based on the description in the setup, these guys are rude and obnoxious and expect us to move, not share the spot, so my reaction depends on them. Some of the factors now are: Do they have guns? Are they drunk and crazy? Are they a lot bigger than Larry, Moe and Me? If it's 4 scrawny teenagers, I tell them to keep going. If it's the Ely 6 on parole with their guns out, I tell them to enjoy the fire we made for them. It's just not worth it to me. |
||
BWPaddler |
quote solotrek: " Often when someone forgets something (dropped on trail, etc.) someone places it in a conspicuous spot, assuming the owner will be looking for it and making it easier to find. I "might" think that was the case here - and someone would be coming back looking for the pfd rather than paddle on unprotected. Guess I agree that I would not leave the site initially. I'd first try to see if they'd back off and take the jacket and move on. I'd explain the "misunderstanding" and hope they paddled off whining. If they didn't back off, and I really was with three other adults (a first for me), then sharing might be an option and I'd hope they weren't jerks. |
||
BWPaddler |
quote Amok: "Me: "What?" PFD's on first!! |
||
Rjovik |
If they become nasty or belligerent, then I would calmly leave the site, and paddle on down the shore (US Side) and pull the canoes deep into the woods and set up camp there, provided we could not find another open site before it becomes too dark. If the ranger ever did find us, I'd just explain he situation and hope they would understand. Just as a side point, I've been in a situation where the distance between sites in the BWCA was a full day haul, and the was made longer by low water, difficult to find portages (low water and little used area) and dozens of beaver days. Needless to say we did not make the next site before dark and spent the night sleeping (sort of) in the canoe in the middle of a boggy river. Not a fun night, but it's what needed to be done. Then next day we just grabbed the first site we found and took the rest of the day off. With the hammock tent arrangement, there are very few places I can't get a place to sleep and virtually leave zero trace of my stay. With the above exception, we have always stayed at a site, but not necessarily on the tent pads. |
||
kbalser |
This is a tough one. The first thing is to try to keep calm. I would try to politely explain to these guys that leaving a single PFD on the site does not reserve it, at least not by anyone I've talked to. Get your cameras clicking, get pictures of their faces, and their canoes. Try to get them talking. Offer to share the site for one night. If they threaten violence, I guess I would leave. It's just not worth it. In that case, their pictures get turned in first chance. I realize that nothing is likely to happen to these guys as a result of reporting them to the rangers, but it's all you can do. |
||
Amok |
quote BWPaddler: "Curious if anyone would change their answer if it was a pack (or 2) sitting there, unopened." I would have kept moving, but I'm certain SOMEone passing by would have perused the packs and possibly taken a few things ... |
||
solotrek |
quote canoe212: "I would not have stopped if a pack or 2 were in plain sight." Ditto |
||
Boppa |
However, two packs, I would keep on paddling as that is to much to forget, IMO. Someone should be back. Boppa |
||
inthewoods |
|