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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: COVID-19 Information and Discussion :: Canada Opening Border Poll
 
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passthepitonspete
01/17/2021 06:20PM
 
jhb8426: "Hey Hoser.
Thanks for the update, eh."



Like, no problem, eh?


P.S. I think we need a photo of a pickerel..... so, like, here is Debbie Double D's with a 5lb 13 ouncer.


 
mutz
11/12/2020 02:05PM
 
Since you decided to make this political, I find it amazing that two drug companies announced an imminent vaccine less than a week after the election. Why was this not announced sooner as it is evident they knew the vaccine was ready.
 
billconner
11/13/2020 06:54PM
 
LarryS48: "Any meaningful discussion of this issue will require discussion of all these things. If this thread degenerates to people only posting dates without any realistic discussion of why you picked that date, it will be a pretty useless thread anyway. "
I never thought this thread was a meaningful discussion. More of a pool, like ice out.
 
arctic
01/17/2021 07:17PM
 
passthepitonspete: "How's it goin', eh? Greetings from the north side of the Boundary Waters, although I live quite a bit south of Quetico in Hamilton, Ontario. My cousins in St. Paul have a hard time processing this notion, that I live in Canada but south of them.



My girlfriend and I visited Quetico this past summer of 2020 for a 23-day trip - it was my first canoe trip to Quetico since the 90s. The park was pretty much deserted, and this was the middle to end of July! After leaving Stanton Bay, the only people we saw for the next three weeks were a pair of rangers who were doing a dark sky measurement in Kawnipi Lake. We didn't see anyone else until our penultimate day. The rangers told us that 91% of Quetico visitors in 2019 were Merricans, so that explains it.



It probably comes as no surprise that with no fishing pressure, the fishing was freaking awesome! Even popular places like the BBB chain had fish hanging out under the waterfalls, where you would normally never find them mid-summer. We found the pickerel particularly cooperative. OK, "walleyes", sheesh. We caught a few decent pike and Debbie nailed a smallie that was 4 lb 3 oz. Our biggest walleye was 10lb 2 oz, and we must have caught another ten in the five- to six-pound range, plus countless smaller ones.



It's a shame - for yous guys - that the Canada/You-Ess border isn't reciprocal in its crossing rules. Everyone up here knows that the land border is closed to non-essential traffic, but few Hosers know that it has always been possible for us to fly to the states from Canada for whatever reason. Accordingly she and I flew to Yosemite and California this fall for climbing. My partner and I were the only climbers on El Capitan, and what with the covid and forest fires, Yosemite was totally deserted. For about a week, ours was the only vehicle parked in the El Cap meadow. After climbing and caving in Mexico, we flew home in time to complete our 14-day quarantine in time for Christmas. Apparently about a quarter of Canadians who fly home do NOT properly quarantine! So after a 14-day quarantine and a negative covid test, I am amongst the cleanest of the clean ... for now.



Unfortunately, the Hosers do not extend the same border-crossing privilege to the Merricans who want to come up fishing and canoeing, and the lodge operators - whose business is typically about 90% from south of the border - are really hurting.



Here like most places, covid-19 is spiralling out of control. We were hitting new record high daily new cases, reckoned to be caused by get-togethers at Christmas and New Year's, in spite of there being an order limiting the Christmas get togethers to a maximum of 5, and basically no legal New Year's get togethers. So the Ontario government has just upped its lockdown to a "stay-at-home" order which means we are not supposed to leave home except for necessities like groceries, beer [we are, after all, a bunch of Hosers, eh?], work [if you must, sheesh] and a rather nebulous reason that you can leave home for exercise. Ice fishing is a great form of exercise, you know, exercising those elbow muscles? And although the premier was pretty much screaming on the TV the other day, "Stay the f*ck at home!" there isn't really anything preventing us from going ice fishing up north. [Cuz, like, there's no ice down here in the south] Ice fishing is named as a legit outdoor exercise activity, along with snowmobiling, snowshoeing, cross country skiing [not downhill, though heaven knows why!] and of course dogsledding. [Of course, what did you expect?] Beaver racing and moose chasing are not specifically named, but it's not a stretch to assume these are also legit, as they are so popular amongst the northern Ontarians. They say four weeks minimum, but it could last longer. The cops aren't allowed to stop us to ask if we are being compliant with the stay-at-home order, so don't speed or get stopped cuz your taillight is out, and you should be ok to go up north.



I would be amazed if the Canadian border reopens to yous guys before fall. There is no evidence that the pandemic is coming under control, only worsening. The vaccines are not coming in quickly enough yet either, and that will take time to catch on. What's the latest date on the poll? Whatever it is, put me down for the next day. It's gonna take a while.



Cheers, eh?
Pete "



I think you are correct in your assessment as to when the border will open. Many of my relatives live north of the border, and for the life of me I can't figure why you folks would allow anyone who thinks Covid is a hoax, distrusts science, or won't vaccinate into your country.


Gladly, ice fishing, snowmobiling, dog-sledding, and skiing are alive and well were I live in northern Minnesota--and we live well.
 
timatkn
01/17/2021 07:53PM
 
I don’t understand why the US is allowing people from other countries in and out with COVID out of control in Europe, Mexico, and Canada. Just seems weird to me?


The good news Pete is if you can’t get vaccinated in Canada you’re fellow Canadians are getting vaccinated in the US. I guess we owe you one since we’ve been coming across for the cheap meds for years :) I picked this article due to the expression on the woman’s face... Priceless
 
Savage Voyageur
11/13/2020 09:58AM
 
I really don’t want this thread deleted. Please keep the political posts to a minimum. Thanks
 
Argo
02/11/2021 09:52PM
 
passthepitonspete: "How's it goin', eh? Greetings from the north side of the Boundary Waters, although I live quite a bit south of Quetico in Hamilton, Ontario. My cousins in St. Paul have a hard time processing this notion, that I live in Canada but south of them.



My girlfriend and I visited Quetico this past summer of 2020 for a 23-day trip - it was my first canoe trip to Quetico since the 90s. The park was pretty much deserted, and this was the middle to end of July! After leaving Stanton Bay, the only people we saw for the next three weeks were a pair of rangers who were doing a dark sky measurement in Kawnipi Lake. We didn't see anyone else until our penultimate day. The rangers told us that 91% of Quetico visitors in 2019 were Merricans, so that explains it.



It probably comes as no surprise that with no fishing pressure, the fishing was freaking awesome! Even popular places like the BBB chain had fish hanging out under the waterfalls, where you would normally never find them mid-summer. We found the pickerel particularly cooperative. OK, "walleyes", sheesh. We caught a few decent pike and Debbie nailed a smallie that was 4 lb 3 oz. Our biggest walleye was 10lb 2 oz, and we must have caught another ten in the five- to six-pound range, plus countless smaller ones.



It's a shame - for yous guys - that the Canada/You-Ess border isn't reciprocal in its crossing rules. Everyone up here knows that the land border is closed to non-essential traffic, but few Hosers know that it has always been possible for us to fly to the states from Canada for whatever reason. Accordingly she and I flew to Yosemite and California this fall for climbing. My partner and I were the only climbers on El Capitan, and what with the covid and forest fires, Yosemite was totally deserted. For about a week, ours was the only vehicle parked in the El Cap meadow. After climbing and caving in Mexico, we flew home in time to complete our 14-day quarantine in time for Christmas. Apparently about a quarter of Canadians who fly home do NOT properly quarantine! So after a 14-day quarantine and a negative covid test, I am amongst the cleanest of the clean ... for now.



Unfortunately, the Hosers do not extend the same border-crossing privilege to the Merricans who want to come up fishing and canoeing, and the lodge operators - whose business is typically about 90% from south of the border - are really hurting.



Here like most places, covid-19 is spiralling out of control. We were hitting new record high daily new cases, reckoned to be caused by get-togethers at Christmas and New Year's, in spite of there being an order limiting the Christmas get togethers to a maximum of 5, and basically no legal New Year's get togethers. So the Ontario government has just upped its lockdown to a "stay-at-home" order which means we are not supposed to leave home except for necessities like groceries, beer [we are, after all, a bunch of Hosers, eh?], work [if you must, sheesh] and a rather nebulous reason that you can leave home for exercise. Ice fishing is a great form of exercise, you know, exercising those elbow muscles? And although the premier was pretty much screaming on the TV the other day, "Stay the f*ck at home!" there isn't really anything preventing us from going ice fishing up north. [Cuz, like, there's no ice down here in the south] Ice fishing is named as a legit outdoor exercise activity, along with snowmobiling, snowshoeing, cross country skiing [not downhill, though heaven knows why!] and of course dogsledding. [Of course, what did you expect?] Beaver racing and moose chasing are not specifically named, but it's not a stretch to assume these are also legit, as they are so popular amongst the northern Ontarians. They say four weeks minimum, but it could last longer. The cops aren't allowed to stop us to ask if we are being compliant with the stay-at-home order, so don't speed or get stopped cuz your taillight is out, and you should be ok to go up north.



I would be amazed if the Canadian border reopens to yous guys before fall. There is no evidence that the pandemic is coming under control, only worsening. The vaccines are not coming in quickly enough yet either, and that will take time to catch on. What's the latest date on the poll? Whatever it is, put me down for the next day. It's gonna take a while.



Cheers, eh?
Pete "



Good post. I too was in Quetico on a ten day journey late July to early August. First time since a series of trips up to 2005. The only point I would make is that I don't believe the fishing was any different. That is to say it was as outstanding as usual - no different from my recollection of years past.


As for my prediction, I'm going to say earlier than most. Call it around Labour Day. Why? Just a hunch that these plagues have a way of just petering out without much apparent evidence as to why. It's like a stock market meltdown. They come out of left field when things appear to be all hunky dory. There are reasons why these phenomena occur but they are just so hard to predict beforehand. The evidence tends to follow rather than lead. The Spanish flue ended a bit over two years after it began without a vaccine nor the modern means of tracking the vectors of transmission. The very deadly Hong Kong Flu of the late sixties also subsided in around a year and a bit aided by a vaccine.


So I guess for our American friends the beatings will continue until morale improves. If you're feeling beat up, don't give up all hope that this thing couldn't come under control suddenly.

 
mutz
01/28/2021 10:02AM
 
GraniteCliffs: "Unas, please remember many find the term Wuhan Flu deeply offensive. I think, but am not sure, you are referring to Covid. "



What is offensive about the term wuhan flu? Are you offended by the term German measles ?
 
mutz
01/28/2021 10:02AM
 


 
user0317
01/28/2021 10:29AM
 
mutz: "GraniteCliffs: "Unas, please remember many find the term Wuhan Flu deeply offensive. I think, but am not sure, you are referring to Covid. "




What is offensive about the term wuhan flu? Are you offended by the term German measles ?"

Offense aside, it sounds stupid. The covid virus and influenza virus are as different as a canoe and a kayak.
 
passthepitonspete
02/11/2021 02:34PM
 
Hey Bill,


It is very strange, and I have invested significant time and effort trying to figure it all out!


You are right - they are beginning to put an end to the Ontario stay-at-home order, and we are going back to the colour-coding for each region, based on the number of covid cases there. So the Bay of Quinte area in eastern Lake Ontario - formerly the world's best walleye fishing - will be going green soon, meaning they can fully reopen, including restaurants for indoor dining. Other regions will continue to reopen, with the worst places like Toronto opening last.


The Ontario government also has plans to put an immediate brake on reopenings should numbers increase.


But that's Ontario - the US-Canada Border is under federal control. And not only are the feds making it virtually impossible yous guys to come up here, they are making it incredibly expensive and a massive pain-in-the-ass for us guys to leave Canada, and then return.


The feds are in charge of obtaining the vaccines, and then the provinces are in charge of distributing them. We have a massive vaccine shortage - the prime minister is saying that he expects everyone in Canada who wants to be vaccinated will get their shots by September - we'll see. Sounds like wishful thinking, like the guy up in NWT. The vaccine supply is completely out of our control, and I'll bet anyone here a beer we're not all vaccinated by September. Incidentally, what dumbass would NOT want to be vaccinated?


I think the reasoning here in keeping the federal border closed is that they are concerned about the new variants being introduced to Canada. Apparently the South African one is pretty nasty, being more transmissible, possibly more deadly, and perhaps less tameable by existing vaccines.


I used to paddle in Quetico in the 90s, but then I took up big wall climbing in Yosemite where I have gone every year. Last summer I went back to Quetico for the first time since, and we had a glorious 23-day trip. The park was deserted with no Merricans, and the fishing was outstanding. I can't wait to go back. Quetico in 2020 was better than Quetico in the 90s.


When I think back over all the great things we did in 2020 - including a trip to Australia/NZ/Tasmania/Fiji, Mexico and an ascent of El Capitan in Yosemite - my fondest memories return to Quetico, and I can't wait to get back!


I have never paddled south of the border - how does BWCA compare to Quetico? What makes Quetico better?
 
GraniteCliffs
01/28/2021 10:39AM
 
Watch the news to see the racist comments and attacks on Asian Americans using this exact term to justify their actions. An Asian friend of mine was spit upon and had the term thrown at her. So, yes, it is an offensive term to many Americans. If you had been on the receiving end I think you would feel differently.
No further comments from me as this is not the place nor time.
 
mutz
12/02/2020 08:21AM
 
Just talked to the owner of a resort we go to in northern Ontario, they can’t go to Florida for the four months they normally go. He blames Canada for not getting the virus under control so that the U.S. will let them in. I guess it just depends on which side of the fence you live on.
The sooner the vaccine is released the sooner this will be over. My wife and I are both in our late 60’s and have called our respective doctors to get to the top of the list when it’s available.
 
mutz
01/28/2021 10:54AM
 
GraniteCliffs: "Watch the news to see the racist comments and attacks on Asian Americans using this exact term to justify their actions. An Asian friend of mine was spit upon and had the term thrown at her. So, yes, it is an offensive term to many Americans. If you had been on the receiving end I think you would feel differently.
No further comments from me as this is not the place nor time. "




The virus came from wuhan China, nothing racist about it, not wuhan flu call it wuhan virus. Nothing racist about that in any way, shape or form.
 
billconner
02/11/2021 05:39PM
 
I'm not 2 miles from border so follow your side and listen to CA radio. I did see I think Manitoba was negotiating their own vaccine buy.


Q vs BWCA - roughly 10 times more people (probably higher last year) per same area in BWCA. I don't mind more people so much but the greater wear and tear and crowding is obvious.
 
Pinetree
01/31/2021 03:35PM
 
Beginning on Monday at noon, Feb. 1, Ontario will require mandatory PCR COVID-19 testing for all incoming international air travellers.
 
passthepitonspete
01/26/2021 10:45AM
 
Actually, it's not our vaccination program that is slow in Ontario ... we have the facility to vaccinate huge amounts of people in a very short period of time.


What we don't have is vaccine!!


Our vaccine supply has been reduced substantially, so the powers-that-be are trying to calculate the maximum period they can extend the time between the first dose and the second dose. The number 42 days is being spoken of.


Right now, the hardest-hit retirement residences are targetted. Most of the residents and their healthcare workers have been vaccinated, but much slower than hoped. Various people are trying to predict when everyone who wants the vaccine will get it - hoping for the summer? This is, of course, not dependent on our government, but on how soon we get enough vaccine.


So once everyone in the long-term care homes is vaccinated, along with their healthcare workers, the next in line will be the old farts. I'm a Sexy Sexagenarian now, so hopefully I will make the next cut!


The stay-at-home order appears to be taking hold, and the numbers are coming down. Ontario was under various degrees of lockdown over Christmas, limiting social gatherings to a certain small number. But hey guess what? Lots of people had big gatherings over Christmas anyway, and very few $880 tickets were written - we don't have a lot of enforcement. So we had a big increase in new cases one to two weeks after Christmas. Same everywhere, I suppose?


Anyway, the stay-at-home order seems to working. This is our 7-day rolling average, and it is encouraging!



As you can see, we have not merely "flattened" the curve - it is pointing downwards steeply.
 
MReid
01/31/2021 04:38PM
 
billconner: "progress maybe reopening article "
Heavy on the "maybe": "Fram says it’s hard to say when the border will reopen, but 2021 could be a possibility now that the first steps are being taken by the federal government."
 
Minnesotian
01/28/2021 12:29PM
 
mutz: "GraniteCliffs: "Watch the news to see the racist comments and attacks on Asian Americans using this exact term to justify their actions. An Asian friend of mine was spit upon and had the term thrown at her. So, yes, it is an offensive term to many Americans. If you had been on the receiving end I think you would feel differently.
No further comments from me as this is not the place nor time. "



The virus came from wuhan China, nothing racist about it, not wuhan flu call it wuhan virus. Nothing racist about that in any way, shape or form."



Calling it the Wuhan flu or any derivation of the term in itself is not racist, but it is a conscious display or a disregard of the consequences from naming a disease specific to a location or a culture. While it has been the practice in the past to name a disease after its location or people, that doesn't mean that it is right or correct to continue to do so. Traditions change and adapt as we understand them and their impacts.


Again, the Pandemic from 100 years ago teaches us this lesson. It was named the Spanish Flu, as you are all well aware of. Because it was called this term, Spanish speaking people were targeted for abuse for being thought of as unclean. In fact, this flu should have been called the United States Flu, or English Flu, or the Kansas Flu because it is thought that it originally started there.


To continue to call this disease anything other then Covid-19 or Coronavirus is setting up people of Asian ancestry for abuse from racists. I have German ancestry and I object to the use of German Measles instead of the real term for it, rubella. In fact, rubella isn't even a category of measles.


As an example, what if we renamed Giardia to Mutz's Disease?
 
mutz
01/28/2021 01:14PM
 
Minnesotian: "mutz: "GraniteCliffs: "Watch the news to see the racist comments and attacks on Asian Americans using this exact term to justify their actions. An Asian friend of mine was spit upon and had the term thrown at her. So, yes, it is an offensive term to many Americans. If you had been on the receiving end I think you would feel differently.
No further comments from me as this is not the place nor time. "




The virus came from wuhan China, nothing racist about it, not wuhan flu call it wuhan virus. Nothing racist about that in any way, shape or form."




Calling it the Wuhan flu or any derivation of the term in itself is not racist, but it is a conscious display or a disregard of the consequences from naming a disease specific to a location or a culture. While it has been the practice in the past to name a disease after its location or people, that doesn't mean that it is right or correct to continue to do so. Traditions change and adapt as we understand them and their impacts.



Again, the Pandemic from 100 years ago teaches us this lesson. It was named the Spanish Flu, as you are all well aware of. Because it was called this term, Spanish speaking people were targeted for abuse for being thought of as unclean. In fact, this flu should have been called the United States Flu, or English Flu, or the Kansas Flu because it is thought that it originally started there.



To continue to call this disease anything other then Covid-19 or Coronavirus is setting up people of Asian ancestry for abuse from racists. I have German ancestry and I object to the use of German Measles instead of the real term for it, rubella. In fact, rubella isn't even a category of measles.



As an example, what if we renamed Giardia to Mutz's Disease? "




Kind of appropriate after what I went through when I had it.
Absolutely no one thinks this virus started in the United States, other than maybe the people who deny we ever landed on the moon.
 
Minnesotian
01/28/2021 01:27PM
 
mutz: "Minnesotian: "mutz: "GraniteCliffs: "Watch the news to see the racist comments and attacks on Asian Americans using this exact term to justify their actions. An Asian friend of mine was spit upon and had the term thrown at her. So, yes, it is an offensive term to many Americans. If you had been on the receiving end I think you would feel differently.
No further comments from me as this is not the place nor time. "





The virus came from wuhan China, nothing racist about it, not wuhan flu call it wuhan virus. Nothing racist about that in any way, shape or form."





Calling it the Wuhan flu or any derivation of the term in itself is not racist, but it is a conscious display or a disregard of the consequences from naming a disease specific to a location or a culture. While it has been the practice in the past to name a disease after its location or people, that doesn't mean that it is right or correct to continue to do so. Traditions change and adapt as we understand them and their impacts.




Again, the Pandemic from 100 years ago teaches us this lesson. It was named the Spanish Flu, as you are all well aware of. Because it was called this term, Spanish speaking people were targeted for abuse for being thought of as unclean. In fact, this flu should have been called the United States Flu, or English Flu, or the Kansas Flu because it is thought that it originally started there.




To continue to call this disease anything other then Covid-19 or Coronavirus is setting up people of Asian ancestry for abuse from racists. I have German ancestry and I object to the use of German Measles instead of the real term for it, rubella. In fact, rubella isn't even a category of measles.




As an example, what if we renamed Giardia to Mutz's Disease? "





Kind of appropriate after what I went through when I had it.
Absolutely no one thinks this virus started in the United States, other than maybe the people who deny we ever landed on the moon."



You misread what I wrote, or I wasn't clear. I am not saying Covid started in the United States. I said that the origin of the pandemic from 1918 may have been in Kansas.
 
schweady
01/28/2021 01:54PM
 
Not sure you guys are accomplishing much with your argument over these oft-heard semantics, except to muddle up actual information discourse on the post (Canada Opening Border Poll, remember?). I'm no moderator, but I'd suggest taking it to email, perhaps?

 
mutz
01/28/2021 02:09PM
 
Very true guess I was just bored.
 
missmolly
01/14/2021 08:52PM
 
Thanks, Bill.
 
nofish
11/02/2020 12:50PM
 
outsidethebox: "My wife says that the likely, true answer is "sometime in 2022". And as a primary care pediatric health care provider, this is not what she wishes for...but hers is a very well informed understanding. "


I'm good friends with an epidemiologist and she says something similar when pushed for a prediction. So far she has been spot on with her predictions since last March. She has spent her entire life working in public health and studying this exact type of situation and she sort of just throws her hands up in the air and gives up when she sees the debate around wearing masks, social distancing, and peoples unwillingness to do their part. The road map to defeating the virus is right in front of us, we're just not willing to read it nor follow it. Too many people would rather put their fingers in their ears chanting "la la la la la" so that they can pretend things are normal. However, its that exact attitude and action that will prevent us from actually getting back to normal any time soon.
 
timatkn
11/19/2020 05:33PM
 
July 2021
 
outsidethebox
11/02/2020 01:43PM
 
This exactly.
 
martian
11/02/2020 08:50PM
 
My vote is mid to late 2022.
 
LarryS48
09/17/2020 11:29AM
 
Yesterday I posted my best case scenario of the US/Canada border opening in August of 2021. Shortly there after that, the director of the CDC said that he didn’t expect a vaccine to be widely available to the general public until the second or third quarter of 2021. President Trump immediately countered that it would be sooner than that. One of the key assumptions in my prediction was that a safe and effective vaccine would have been widely used by August 2021. If the CDC director is right, it looks like the US may have many people unvaccinated at that time. If that turns out to be the case, we might be looking at Americans losing the 2021 paddling season in Quetico. Although August of 2021 still seems possible, it seems less likely than it did the day before yesterday.

P.S. Widely used means 250 to 300 million Americans vaccinated with a vaccine that is 70% effective. As I think about this, it seems unlikely that enough Americans will be willing to do that. If that is the case, the hope would be that Canada will allow people who have been vaccinated to visit.

 
mutz
12/23/2020 08:38PM
 
Interesting how many think Americans should have to have been vaccinated to enter Canada, do you also think Canadians should have to be vaccinated to enter the United States?
 
Argo
02/11/2021 11:04PM
 
missmolly: "passthepitonspete: "Actually, it's not our vaccination program that is slow in Ontario ... we have the facility to vaccinate huge amounts of people in a very short period of time.




What we don't have is vaccine!!




Our vaccine supply has been reduced substantially, so the powers-that-be are trying to calculate the maximum period they can extend the time between the first dose and the second dose. The number 42 days is being spoken of.




Right now, the hardest-hit retirement residences are targetted. Most of the residents and their healthcare workers have been vaccinated, but much slower than hoped. Various people are trying to predict when everyone who wants the vaccine will get it - hoping for the summer? This is, of course, not dependent on our government, but on how soon we get enough vaccine.




So once everyone in the long-term care homes is vaccinated, along with their healthcare workers, the next in line will be the old farts. I'm a Sexy Sexagenarian now, so hopefully I will make the next cut!




The stay-at-home order appears to be taking hold, and the numbers are coming down. Ontario was under various degrees of lockdown over Christmas, limiting social gatherings to a certain small number. But hey guess what? Lots of people had big gatherings over Christmas anyway, and very few $880 tickets were written - we don't have a lot of enforcement. So we had a big increase in new cases one to two weeks after Christmas. Same everywhere, I suppose?




Anyway, the stay-at-home order seems to working. This is our 7-day rolling average, and it is encouraging!







As you can see, we have not merely "flattened" the curve - it is pointing downwards steeply. "





Way to go, Ontario! Keep driving that damn death curve down."



I'm very confused as to why the curves of places that are in extreme lockdown resemble those of places like FLA that are relatively lax.
 
Minnesotian
12/24/2020 12:56AM
 
mutz: "Interesting how many think Americans should have to have been vaccinated to enter Canada, do you also think Canadians should have to be vaccinated to enter the United States?"


Yes.
 
timatkn
02/12/2021 07:23AM
 
Fauci says public vaccinations start in April


Another sign of hope
 
outsidethebox
01/13/2021 07:57PM
 
T:
We have no vaccination requirement-not sure how you "lessen" nothing. The Hubble has not yet reported any "herd immunity" sitings.
 
gymcoachdon
01/14/2021 09:27AM
 
outsidethebox: "T:
We have no vaccination requirement-not sure how you "lessen" nothing. The Hubble has not yet reported any "herd immunity" sitings."



I am not sure if this was meant to be humorous, maybe you missed the next line when he said it was all conjecture.
Conjecture:
an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.


No need for requirements or pictures of herds to make some conclusions on what might happen.


Can the Hubble take pictures of earth? I'm going to look that one up.

I guess not.
Its speed in orbit above Earth is so fast that any image it took would be blurred by the motion. Bottom line: It's not possible to use the Hubble Space Telescope to observe Earth.
 
LarryS48
11/12/2020 06:00PM
 
mutz: "Since you decided to make this political, I find it amazing that two drug companies announced an imminent vaccine less than a week after the election. Why was this not announced sooner as it is evident they knew the vaccine was ready."
I believe the timing has to do with the rules of the FDA (Food and Drug Administration). I believe the requirements to unmask the data (no one is to know who got the placebo and who got vaccinated until it is time analyze the data) is that the participants must be followed for two months after their final vaccination and that at least 65 people in the study group got COVID.

A review board looks at the data and then the company can then see the data and make an application to the FDA for a EUA (emergency use authorization) if they feel their vaccine candidate is safe and effective. Pfizer has met those requirements and will be submitting an application very soon.

Why Pfizer decided to make this public before the FDA has made a decision is something you'd have to ask Pfizer. Moderna is rapidly approaching the time that they will be allowed to see what is happening in their phase 3 trial. Why they are speaking about it now is again something that you'd have to ask the company.

The FDA gets to make the official decision of when a vaccine is ready. At this point the FDA is waiting for the application but that should be changing soon to the FDA is evaluating the application and data.

Disclaimer: My knowledge of the rules is based on watching the news. I have not searched government sites to check the rules.
 
mutz
11/12/2020 09:41PM
 
Totally right as far as I can see with rules. I just questioned the timing.
 
LarryS48
11/13/2020 01:44PM
 
The decission of when the border opens will be made by politicians in the US and Canada. The Canadian politicians have made it clear that on their end it depends on the status of the pandemic. The status of the pandemic will depend on scientific advances, and the decisions of politicians and individual people. Any meaningful discussion of this issue will require discussion of all these things. If this thread degenerates to people only posting dates without any realistic discussion of why you picked that date, it will be a pretty useless thread anyway. That said, I do think it is important to discuss the issue in a way that is respectful of those with opposing views.

 
GraniteCliffs
02/10/2021 11:36PM
 
I am losing hope of getting to Quetico this year. I was so hopeful six months ago. Not so much now. I have two BW trips set and two more about confirmed. But Quetico is where my heart is. Very depressing.
I guess if my biggest problem in 2021 is only going to the BW several times I should consider myself lucky. And I do.



 
GraniteCliffs
09/17/2020 07:55PM
 
Don't!! Stop!! I am depressed enough over missing out on the Q this year. Do not even think about a scenario where we would lose 2021 too!
It is pretty clear that none of us really has a good prediction. By January it could be the virus rate flips between the US and Canada. Certainly other countries in the world have seen this happen. Surely the financial pinch will be felt and will have some sway. And the vaccines under development--who knows the when, how many or how effective.
The only two things I know are how much I missed the Q this year and how depressed I would be to miss 2021.
Yep, Don't think it.
 
AmarilloJim
01/27/2021 07:25AM
 

 
billconner
02/12/2021 11:16AM
 
Good news that proof of vaccination will allow you to opt out of quarantine. NYS adopted that for travle from out of state. March 11th for me - 2 weeks after second dose.
 
analyzer
01/03/2021 09:33PM
 
Minnesotian: "mutz: "Interesting how many think Americans should have to have been vaccinated to enter Canada, do you also think Canadians should have to be vaccinated to enter the United States?"



Yes."



I doubt that will be true on the southern border of the US. I hope they don't get to the point where they require vaccinations to travel to other countries. I really don't want one.
 
AmarilloJim
09/15/2020 01:26PM
 
6 months
They need the tourism business and tax revenue

 
GraniteCliffs
12/11/2020 06:42PM
 
I remain hopeful that the pandemic as we know it today will not be present by early summer. The pandemic should be contained by then. I am hopeful that will help all of us in any number of ways, including opening the border.
With that said I would also expect the virus to still be present among us next summer. Just not at a pandemic level. And my hope is that allows us to begin to return to a normal live. And a return to Quetico!
 
LarryS48
11/10/2020 10:38AM
 
I've been doing a bit of thinking about my prediction of August of 2021 (or later) as the date the US/Canada border opens. As the pandemic surged in the last week, I was beginning to feel like the "or later" part was seeming more and more likely, and that those predicting 2022 would be right. 2022 is a possibility I always considered but thought there was a reasonable chance for the fall of 2021. With the seven day rolling average now above 100,000 new cases per day, the highs near 130,000 and knowledgeable people predicting it will be going even higher, 2022 seemed more and more likely.


However, there has been some qualified good news recently.
1. Joe Biden appears to have won the election and will take a more proactive approach to controlling the pandemic in the US.
2. Pfizer revealed that it looks like their vaccine will be more effective than was hoped.
3. The FDA granted an EUA (emergency use authorization) for Lilly's monoclonal antibody treatment for those in the early stages of the disease. Overall these are encouraging signs but each comes with a series of ifs.


1A. The election is still being contested in the courts. I think the chances that the Republicans change what appears to be the outcome now is very low.
1B. A Biden administration would surely encourage more use of masks, social distancing and hygiene, but it will probably be met with resistance by some. Things will improve some but not as much as one would hope.
1C. Massive lock downs (like China), massive testing, contact tracing and mandatory quarantine (like South Korea) could end this in a few months. However, I don't think the US is capable of doing those things no matter who is president.
2A. There is still more data to be collected in the Pfizer study, and we will have to wait to see what it all looks like. Key things to know include how does it work with vulnerable people, and will it only prevent disease or will it also prevent transmission.
2B. In order for a vaccine to work, people actually have to be vaccinated. That will depend on how well it is accepted by the public and how effective the manufacturing and distribution are. The Pfizer vaccine requires storage at around dry ice temperatures and that will challenge the distribution system. It still looks like it will be well into summer or later before large numbers of people (~ 250,000,000) could be vaccinated in the US. I don't have much knowledge of how long it will take Canada to vaccinate their people, but I suspect it will be similar.
2C. Other vaccines are in the pipeline. The next one likely to ask for an EUA is from Moderna. It will also have to be stored at very low temperatures. Some of the others which will likely be coming later may not require such low temperature storage. Being able to store a vaccine in a normal freezer would be a big advantage.
3A. The early data suggests that the Lilly monoclonal antibodies are only modestly effective at keeping people who have been infected from getting seriously sick. This should improve things but by itself it won't be a game changer for everyone who gets infected.
3B. The monoclonal antibodies along with the other things that doctors have learned about treating the disease continue to push the death rate of those infected down. However, treatment is not so good that death is not something you have to think about if you become infected.


So, my overall prediction stays about the same:
It is not very likely that the border will open before mid to late summer.
There is a reasonable chance that the border will open by late summer or early fall.
It is also reasonable that the border opening will be later and maybe well into 2022.


I wish I could be more optimistic but I also wish this had never happened.



 
passthepitonspete
02/25/2021 11:36AM
 
So .... the curve dropped precipitously during our lockdown, and now they are in the process of reopening Ontario. A lot of the kids are back at school. The other day, we drove by the variety store next to the school. There were twenty kids or more clustered in a tight group, hanging out, likely not wearing masks. They will get the covid, and bring it home to their parents and grandparents.


So we went from nearly 4000 new cases a day in Ontario back after Christmastime, down to a bit under 1000 new cases per day within the past week. The thousand new cases per day was the benchmark they wanted to see in order to start reopening. Meanwhile, the doctors were all saying that we are reopening too quickly, that the third wave is going to surge by the end of March or so, and that the dominant strain will be the UK variant. Excuse me, I would not wish to offend the sensibilities of our neighbours to the east - it's called the B.1.1.7.


So after 1058 new cases on Monday, 975 new on Tuesday, and 1054 new on Wednesday, today we have 1138 new. We now have 449 UK variant cases in Ontario, and get this - UK variant is up 54 cases since yesterday [holy shit].


There will be a press conference announcing new projections this afternoon. The premier says he has an "emergency brake" ready to halt the reopening if the numbers being to rise again. Is today a blip, or are the numbers going back up? [Ya think 54 new B.1.1.7 is a "blip"?]


Meanwhile, new vaccines continue to trickle in, too slowly. My dad is 96 and living at home, still not vaccinated. They say in the next week or so they will set up a reservation service for those over 80 - we shall see.


I can still leave Ontario on holidays, it's that $2000 hotel stay plus 14-day quarantine when I get back home that makes it untenable.


I want to go climbing in Yosemite this spring, but not as badly as yous guys want to get to Quetico.


Sheesh.





P.S. That's Debbie climbing the ice while I belay her.
 
gymcoachdon
01/14/2021 09:37PM
 
missmolly: "Where'd you find that figure, Don? I did three searches, but couldn't locate it."


Yep, my bad. The site I looked at has 23 million US, and the line just below has the world number. That does throw off the math a little! Only 7% of the population has officially tested positive.
My point is that there is a large percentage of our population that has been exposed, and not tested. That could be because it was early in the pandemic, or that they had no, or mild, symptoms.
And my question about how much immunity is built up is a real one that may take years to find out.
Edit to add:
(by the way, I think your projection for 70% getting vaccinated is very optimistic)

 
timatkn
01/15/2021 12:24AM
 
outsidethebox: "T:
We have no vaccination requirement-not sure how you "lessen" nothing. The Hubble has not yet reported any "herd immunity" sitings."



We have no vaccination requirement...YET...maybe we won’t... I can tell ya every business in the US is looking into the legality of requiring vaccinations and since we are a free Country you are free too not work or visit a business that requires a vaccination just as they are free to say they don’t want you to visit or work for them. I am guessing Whatever cananda does we will reciprocate. My opinion above is we should require vaccination proof before allowing Canadians to enter the US, we have more to lose than they do due to the volume of Canadians coming to the US normally, where they go, and what they do. They aren’t going to secluded fishing resorts, they are going to malls and bars/restaurants standing around a lot of people.


T
 
mutz
01/22/2021 09:59PM
 
timatkn: "Maybe Biden can trade vaccine for Quetico entries?
Canada begs US for vaccine



Mutz...Canadians are getting the vaccine in the US...especially Florida. There is no border control on our end. They are free to come too the US. My previous link documents that. I was not saying they were flying in on private jets. They are Canadian citizens that winter in Florida. Approximately 10,000 Canadian seniors have been vaccinated in the US...approximately 10,000 more than have been vaccinated in Canada :) The two articles do quote Canadians who came to the US just to get vaccinated though.




Snowbirds getting vaccinated "




My sister was told today if your not a Florida resident you won’t be vaccinated. Maybe they vaccinated some but at least won’t be anymore.
Hopefully all U.S. citizens will be done quickly and we will have extra to give to Canada, but we need to vaccinate all U.S. citizens who want to be vaccinated before we give any away
 
MichiganMan
09/15/2020 07:52PM
 
Not until after the new year at least. I'll say Jan 1.
 
Savage Voyageur
09/15/2020 10:51AM
 
I’m wondering when you people think the US/Canadian border will be opened for travel and tourism? Post your guesses in the form of Months and Year. Lots of smart people here, I’m just looking for some hope, but I’m not optimistic. If you have a reason for your guess post that too.


I see zero reason for Canada to open the border until the numbers go down. The numbers will only go down when a vaccine is developed and distributed to people. I don’t see that until May 2022.
 
rtallent
09/15/2020 02:56PM
 
sheesh, so it has come to this: a new twist on the ice-out contest :)
 
plander
09/16/2020 11:52AM
 
March 2021.


That said, I'm guessing it will not be until the border is opened that they will start accepting and processing RABC applications. Therefore, it may be a challenge to get all the stuff in order for a PP or CB ranger station entry point even if the border opens by the Ontario fishing opener (May 15, 2021???). For the LLC ranger station I assume the Canadian Customs on Sand Point Lake is still in operation, and if that's indeed the case then no need to get the RABC for those entry points.
 
LarryS48
09/16/2020 01:55AM
 
If all goes well (a safe and effective vaccine is found, it is one of the ones that is being produced already, the system of distributing hundreds of millions of doses works smoothly, Americans accept the vaccine and get vaccinated quickly, and the vaccine is long lasting), I’d say August of 2021. If any of that doesn’t happen it could be much later.


This is based on the following.
1. The government of Canada will continue to prioritize protecting its people from the virus.
2. Most Canadian citizens will continue to support that policy.
3. The USA will continue to fail to control the virus via social means.
4. All goes well as stated above.


The status as of Sept. 15, 2020 is as follows.
Based on the rolling 7 day average of new cases Canada is reporting 722 new cases per day versus 38286 for the USA. If we correct for the population difference (USA is 8.781 times more populated), the ratio of new cases is 38286 : 6340. That is Population corrected new infections were 6.0 times worse in the USA than in Canada. That is actually an improvement from the point of view of the USA. Things have gotten slightly better in recent weeks in the USA but worse in Canada.


If one does a similar analysis of deaths one finds That corrected for population Americans were dying From COVID at 20 times that rate of Canadians in the last week.


I don’t think the border will open while things are so much worse in the USA than in Canada. I expect another month extension to the border closing to be announced soon.

 
nofish
09/15/2020 11:28PM
 
Id guess April 2021 at the earliest but I wouldn't put any money on that guess. It could very well be April of 2022.


Even if a vaccine is ready this winter it won't be used widely enough to really make a dent in numbers for at least a year. Our best shot at the border opening is for the numbers to drop next spring after what we see the spike everyone is expecting this winter.
 
LarryS48
09/17/2020 11:24PM
 
GraniteCliffs: "Don't!! Stop!! I am depressed enough over missing out on the Q this year. Do not even think about a scenario where we would lose 2021 too!
It is pretty clear that none of us really has a good prediction. By January it could be the virus rate flips between the US and Canada. Certainly other countries in the world have seen this happen. Surely the financial pinch will be felt and will have some sway. And the vaccines under development--who knows the when, how many or how effective.
The only two things I know are how much I missed the Q this year and how depressed I would be to miss 2021.
Yep, Don't think it."



I know how much it hurts not to be able to go to Quetico. Believe me, I know. However, burying your head in the sand will not fix the problem. In fact, if so many Americans hadn’t buried there heads in the sand we might be able to go to Quetico now. The pandemic started from low levels in both the US and Canada, as spring came it increased rapidly in both countries. Then both countries started taking measures to reduce it. It started to work in both countries. But then our paths separated. Canada kept working at it. America decided to bury its head in the sand and do what made it feel good. That was opening the economy, going to bars and restaurants, partying etc. What I want took priority over doing what was necessary. The result was Canada’s cases continued down and America’s skyrocketed. Now is not the time to focus solely on what you want. It is time to take a critical look at the problem (high numbers of cases and deaths) and see what can be done. If we do that, you’ll get your chance to go to Quetico. If not, it will be a long time. So stop with the this is what I want and start seeing what you can do about it.
 
LarryS48
09/18/2020 08:31AM
 
In response to the fighting between Dr. Redfield and Pres. Trump, Dr. Fauci gave a slightly more optimistic outlook than Dr. Redfield. Basically he said that IF a safe and effective vaccine is found in the next few months and if it is one of the ones being pre-manufactured, that we could be able to get large numbers of people vaccinated by the second and third quarter of next year. Still lots of if’s, but it is in line with my original thinking. So, what is important here is not that I think that most likely things will be getting to something like normal by the late third quarter of 2021 but that Dr. Fauci thinks it is possible or maybe likely too. We can hope that things go even faster but what we have to do is do what it takes to make that a reality rather than just a dream. Those things are mask wearing, social distancing, avoiding crowds and getting vaccinated once there is evidence that comes from reliable sources that a vaccine or vaccines are safe and effective. Do it so we can get a chance of being able to get back to canoeing in Canada.


Keep my vote in the poll as August 2021. Lets do the things that could make it sooner and avoid doing the things that could make it later.
 
Pinetree
09/18/2020 12:40PM
 
OTTAWA, Sept. 18 (Reuters) — The United States and Canada have extended existing border restrictions until Oct. 21 as authorities continue their efforts to fight the coronavirus pandemic, both nations said on Friday.
 
GraniteCliffs
09/18/2020 08:20PM
 
LarryS48: "GraniteCliffs: "Don't!! Stop!! I am depressed enough over missing out on the Q this year. Do not even think about a scenario where we would lose 2021 too!
It is pretty clear that none of us really has a good prediction. By January it could be the virus rate flips between the US and Canada. Certainly other countries in the world have seen this happen. Surely the financial pinch will be felt and will have some sway. And the vaccines under development--who knows the when, how many or how effective.
The only two things I know are how much I missed the Q this year and how depressed I would be to miss 2021.
Yep, Don't think it."




I know how much it hurts not to be able to go to Quetico. Believe me, I know. However, burying your head in the sand will not fix the problem. In fact, if so many Americans hadn’t buried there heads in the sand we might be able to go to Quetico now. The pandemic started from low levels in both the US and Canada, as spring came it increased rapidly in both countries. Then both countries started taking measures to reduce it. It started to work in both countries. But then our paths separated. Canada kept working at it. America decided to bury its head in the sand and do what made it feel good. That was opening the economy, going to bars and restaurants, partying etc. What I want took priority over doing what was necessary. The result was Canada’s cases continued down and America’s skyrocketed. Now is not the time to focus solely on what you want. It is time to take a critical look at the problem (high numbers of cases and deaths) and see what can be done. If we do that, you’ll get your chance to go to Quetico. If not, it will be a long time. So stop with the this is what I want and start seeing what you can do about it. "

My head is buried in the sand? I want what I want??? I need to start seeing what I can do about it? I am confused by your comments in response to my post. Perhaps I missed something but I don’t need a lecture from someone that doesn’t know me.



 
outsidethebox
11/01/2020 12:41PM
 
My wife says that the likely, true answer is "sometime in 2022". And as a primary care pediatric health care provider, this is not what she wishes for...but hers is a very well informed understanding.
 
outsidethebox
11/12/2020 07:42AM
 
LarryS48: "However, I don't think the US is capable of doing those things no matter who is president."
The last sentence of 1C remains the salient point. Ignorance, willful or otherwise, threatens the well-being of all.
 
yellowcanoe
12/10/2020 09:10AM
 
No the pandemic will not go away with a vaccine. There have been no studies that show vaccinated persons cannot be carriers. A vaccine is not a light switch. Our CDC ( State) director says mask wearing and restrictions will go on for at least 2021.


Vaccines do protect the recipient.


nvaccine not a cure all
 
billconner
11/13/2020 07:08PM
 
noAVGjoe: "Thanks savage voyager for the topic, it started out hopeful and optimistic until Larry casted judgement on people’s thoughts. Never have I been so annoyed by someone else, seems like a know it all douche bag. I can feel how lonely you are with how much time you spend posting. Get a life"


Seemed to me Larry simply pointed out how much less responsible and careful people in US were than people in Canada and elsewhere. Certainly seems to be true. That policies will be different under Biden than under Trump seems like a very obvious observation without political spin or bias.
 
martian
11/13/2020 07:50PM
 
I agree with Larry's observations. Honest and accurate. At the rate we're going, even 2022 could be a stretch. Due to noncompliance we could see another lock down. The numbers aren't looking good.
 
OMGitsKa
11/15/2020 08:13AM
 
At this point probably wont be until a vaccine really gets rolling. Best case maybe start of summer? Worst case probably into 2022.
 
TechnoScout
11/14/2020 06:41PM
 
billconner: "noAVGjoe: "Thanks savage voyager for the topic, it started out hopeful and optimistic until Larry casted judgement on people’s thoughts. Never have I been so annoyed by someone else, seems like a know it all douche bag. I can feel how lonely you are with how much time you spend posting. Get a life"



Seemed to me Larry simply pointed out how much less responsible and careful people in US were than people in Canada and elsewhere. Certainly seems to be true. That policies will be different under Biden than under Trump seems like a very obvious observation without political spin or bias. "



What policies are you referring to...specifically?
 
Pinetree
11/14/2020 06:53PM
 
TechnoScout: "billconner: "noAVGjoe: "Thanks savage voyager for the topic, it started out hopeful and optimistic until Larry casted judgement on people’s thoughts. Never have I been so annoyed by someone else, seems like a know it all douche bag. I can feel how lonely you are with how much time you spend posting. Get a life"




Seemed to me Larry simply pointed out how much less responsible and careful people in US were than people in Canada and elsewhere. Certainly seems to be true. That policies will be different under Biden than under Trump seems like a very obvious observation without political spin or bias. "




What policies are you referring to...specifically?"



Seen a map of concentration of the virus cases. You could draw a line from coast to coast using the Canadian -U.S. border. It was startling how many fewer cases in Canada by percentage and overall. I see zero reason why Canada would let us in at present.
 
billconner
11/15/2020 07:09AM
 
TechnoScout: "billconner: "noAVGjoe: "Thanks savage voyager for the topic, it started out hopeful and optimistic until Larry casted judgement on people’s thoughts. Never have I been so annoyed by someone else, seems like a know it all douche bag. I can feel how lonely you are with how much time you spend posting. Get a life"




Seemed to me Larry simply pointed out how much less responsible and careful people in US were than people in Canada and elsewhere. Certainly seems to be true. That policies will be different under Biden than under Trump seems like a very obvious observation without political spin or bias. "




What policies are you referring to...specifically?"



No specifics, only that it will be different with executive branch under the other party. Specifics would make it political, which I avoid. Googling "trump vs biden on covid" suggests possibilities.





 
timatkn
11/19/2020 07:20AM
 
billconner: "TechnoScout: "billconner: "noAVGjoe: "Thanks savage voyager for the topic, it started out hopeful and optimistic until Larry casted judgement on people’s thoughts. Never have I been so annoyed by someone else, seems like a know it all douche bag. I can feel how lonely you are with how much time you spend posting. Get a life"





Seemed to me Larry simply pointed out how much less responsible and careful people in US were than people in Canada and elsewhere. Certainly seems to be true. That policies will be different under Biden than under Trump seems like a very obvious observation without political spin or bias. "





What policies are you referring to...specifically?"




No specifics, only that it will be different with executive branch under the other party. Specifics would make it political, which I avoid. Googling "trump vs biden on covid" suggests possibilities.





"



Funny you two are comparing two countries having serious issues like one is doing a great job and another is not. BOTH are having serious issues. Both countries are high in per capita cases—-saying one is significantly better is political. No one is managing the Pandemic well at this point. Canadians have poor mask compliance, traveled and gathered over their Thanksgiving against government recommendations...I think what we will learn during a pandemic once you think some country or area is doing better than another area...just give them time they’ll prove you wrong :)


Canada Overwhelmed
 
gymcoachdon
11/19/2020 09:38AM
 
LarryS48: "The decission of when the border opens will be made by politicians in the US and Canada. The Canadian politicians have made it clear that on their end it depends on the status of the pandemic. The status of the pandemic will depend on scientific advances, and the decisions of politicians and individual people. Any meaningful discussion of this issue will require discussion of all these things. If this thread degenerates to people only posting dates without any realistic discussion of why you picked that date, it will be a pretty useless thread anyway. That said, I do think it is important to discuss the issue in a way that is respectful of those with opposing views.
"



August 2021
 
yellowcanoe
11/21/2020 11:09AM
 
I can't conjecture on next week much less next year.
Never thought my New England daughter would be in rural Minnesota for Thanksgiving on Covid work.
 
yellowcanoe
12/01/2020 06:27PM
 
update. You who are planning an ice out trip to Canada might keep an eye on what is going on. CDN border opening
 
MichiganMan
12/01/2020 07:07PM
 
Nooooo! Say it ain't so!


Hate to say it, but I don't blame them.
 
mutz
12/13/2020 06:26PM
 
It’s not official that they will do it, but Ontario has talked about travel restrictions for people who have not had or will not get vaccinated. For those of you who have said you will not get vaccinated, will you rethink that if it’s required for a trip to the Q?
 
Pinetree
12/19/2020 11:10AM
 
yellowcanoe: "mutz: "It’s not official that they will do it, but Ontario has talked about travel restrictions for people who have not had or will not get vaccinated. For those of you who have said you will not get vaccinated, will you rethink that if it’s required for a trip to the Q?"



of course. I expect that I will be required to show proof of vaccination to cross the border in 2021. Its no cure all but it helps tourism. If you don't want to get vaccinated perhaps you should think the potential consequences through.
I find it quite eye opening that Newfoundland and the Maritimes have closed their borders not only to USA residents but other Canadians too."



Agree,
yes if I was Ontario or Canada I would require the vaccine before entering.
 
yellowcanoe
12/19/2020 11:07AM
 
mutz: "It’s not official that they will do it, but Ontario has talked about travel restrictions for people who have not had or will not get vaccinated. For those of you who have said you will not get vaccinated, will you rethink that if it’s required for a trip to the Q?"


of course. I expect that I will be required to show proof of vaccination to cross the border in 2021. Its no cure all but it helps tourism. If you don't want to get vaccinated perhaps you should think the potential consequences through.
I find it quite eye opening that Newfoundland and the Maritimes have closed their borders not only to USA residents but other Canadians too.
 
timatkn
01/13/2021 07:43AM
 
mutz: "Interesting how many think Americans should have to have been vaccinated to enter Canada, do you also think Canadians should have to be vaccinated to enter the United States?"


Definitely yes. It’s not like Canada doesn’t have issues either and typically border traffic is much higher of Canadians heading south than Americans north. Our potential for cross border contamination is much higher than theirs.


Eventually we’ll get to herd immunity and the vaccination requirement will be lessened. This is all conjecture. Unless you have a history of allergic reactions not sure why one wouldn’t get vaccinated? My organization has done 15,000 of them now, no issues. Some sore arms...do your 10 wall push ups after the shot reduces that.


T
 
missmolly
01/14/2021 11:33AM
 
"Eventually we’ll get to herd immunity and the vaccination requirement will be lessened. This is all conjecture."


I think you're right. Let's say herd immunity is 80% and only 70% of Americans are vaccinated. The unvaccinated 30% will keep passing COVID among themselves until enough of them have anti-bodies to achieve herd immunity. It'll be superfluous suffering and dying, but we'll get there.
 
missmolly
01/15/2021 02:45AM
 
gymcoachdon: "missmolly: "Where'd you find that figure, Don? I did three searches, but couldn't locate it."



Yep, my bad. The site I looked at has 23 million US, and the line just below has the world number. That does throw off the math a little! Only 7% of the population has officially tested positive.
My point is that there is a large percentage of our population that has been exposed, and not tested. That could be because it was early in the pandemic, or that they had no, or mild, symptoms.
And my question about how much immunity is built up is a real one that may take years to find out.
Edit to add:
(by the way, I think your projection for 70% getting vaccinated is very optimistic)
"



No problem, Don. I asked because I'm pretty good at Internet searches and found nada. Now I know why.


Gosh, I hope you're wrong about 70% vaccinated being "very optimistic."


If vaccines are anathema for so many, it makes me wonder if I could get rich selling a serum that eliminated polio antibodies created by the polio vaccine. Would tens of millions of Americans line up to buy a chance at an iron lung or leg braces?


The most recent figure I read for the durability of the antibodies to provide COVID-19 immunity is merely five months, so those infected last summer are already susceptible to reinfection again and doctors are reporting that the second infection tends to be worse than the first.
 
missmolly
01/14/2021 02:54PM
 
Where'd you find that figure, Don? I did three searches, but couldn't locate it.
 
gymcoachdon
01/14/2021 12:47PM
 
92 million cases in the US, and that is the verified number. How many have had it, and were never tested? We don't know, but I would bet that 30% of Americans already have been exposed, and have some immunity. How many times do you have to be exposed to build immunity?
Anyway, if 70% get vaccinated, I would bet that is plenty for herd immunity.
 
billconner
01/14/2021 06:28PM
 
Sources I rely on suggest in the 23 million in US, with around 400,000 deaths. The 92 million and 4 million deaths seem to be worldwide.


I'm now eligible for vaccine but there is nearly none available compared to numbers eligible.
 
mutz
01/03/2021 10:13PM
 
analyzer: "Minnesotian: "mutz: "Interesting how many think Americans should have to have been vaccinated to enter Canada, do you also think Canadians should have to be vaccinated to enter the United States?"




Yes."




I doubt that will be true on the southern border of the US. I hope they don't get to the point where they require vaccinations to travel to other countries. I really don't want one. "





I think by the end of 2021 when everyone should have had the opportunity to be immunized, most countries will require proof of immunization in order to enter the country. I will be extremely disappointed if the U.S. doesn’t require immunizations for anyone entering the country.
Most cruise lines we have received policy updates from say it will be likely to need an immunization to board a ship but they all say the new policies are constantly changing.
 
billconner
01/04/2021 05:57AM
 
If I've read the news correctly, anyone entering US from the UK has to have tested negative within three days prior to departure.
 
nofish
01/04/2021 09:29AM
 
billconner: "If I've read the news correctly, anyone entering US from the UK has to have tested negative within three days prior to departure."


Policies like that seem to be the norm. Either you have to have proof of negative tests, quarantine for 2 weeks once you arrive at your destination, or both. That assumes they let you in at all. I think once vaccines are more widely available you'll see more countries add proof of vaccination as an alternative to quarantine and proof of negative test. Although I'm sure some countries may still require more than one.

 
timatkn
01/09/2021 11:43PM
 
billconner: "If I've read the news correctly, anyone entering US from the UK has to have tested negative within three days prior to departure."


I don’t really understand that...the virus can incubate for 14 days. Especially with the UK having more of the new strain that just isn’t a good enough policy.


T
 
billconner
01/15/2021 06:43AM
 
missmolly - I search out the reports of natural immunity since i "recovered" and the first was 2-3 months. Yesterday I read of research that said 8 months. And the reports seem to always allow "or more". My optimistic self likes to think immunity is life long. it will just be a while before that's known for sure. And the immunity seems to be for at least 80-85% of population, maybe as high as 95%.
 
airmorse
01/15/2021 06:56AM
 
missmolly: "gymcoachdon: "missmolly: "Where'd you find that figure, Don? I did three searches, but couldn't locate it."




Yep, my bad. The site I looked at has 23 million US, and the line just below has the world number. That does throw off the math a little! Only 7% of the population has officially tested positive.
My point is that there is a large percentage of our population that has been exposed, and not tested. That could be because it was early in the pandemic, or that they had no, or mild, symptoms.
And my question about how much immunity is built up is a real one that may take years to find out.
Edit to add:
(by the way, I think your projection for 70% getting vaccinated is very optimistic)
"




No problem, Don. I asked because I'm pretty good at Internet searches and found nada. Now I know why.



Gosh, I hope you're wrong about 70% vaccinated being "very optimistic."



If vaccines are anathema for so many, it makes me wonder if I could get rich selling a serum that eliminated polio antibodies created by the polio vaccine. Would tens of millions of Americans line up to buy a chance at an iron lung or leg braces?



The most recent figure I read for the durability of the antibodies to provide COVID-19 immunity is merely five months, so those infected last summer are already susceptible to reinfection again and doctors are reporting that the second infection tends to be worse than the first. "



I hope they are wrong about the second infection being worse, if I get it again then I would end up in the hospital. And with this virus if your sick enough to be admitted into the hospital there is a good chance you won't be walking out.


Where did you get that info from. Thx.
 
airmorse
01/15/2021 07:01AM
 
timatkn: "outsidethebox: "T:
We have no vaccination requirement-not sure how you "lessen" nothing. The Hubble has not yet reported any "herd immunity" sitings."




We have no vaccination requirement...YET...maybe we won’t... I can tell ya every business in the US is looking into the legality of requiring vaccinations and since we are a free Country you are free too not work or visit a business that requires a vaccination just as they are free to say they don’t want you to visit or work for them. I am guessing Whatever cananda does we will reciprocate. My opinion above is we should require vaccination proof before allowing Canadians to enter the US, we have more to lose than they do due to the volume of Canadians coming to the US normally, where they go, and what they do. They aren’t going to secluded fishing resorts, they are going to malls and bars/restaurants standing around a lot of people.



T"



People that travel internationally are required by the country they are visiting (not every country requires this) to carry a vaccination card.
 
missmolly
01/15/2021 08:29AM
 
T, the long haulers terrify me. I've shared inside air just twice in the last six months, both times with my general contractor as it's pert near impossible to plan a reno without walking through the house. Other than that, I haven't been in a grocery or hardware store for half a year. My local merchants have enabled curbside shopping and I will be their lifelong customer in gratitude.
 
timatkn
01/15/2021 07:38AM
 
So far the second reinfection of COVID-19 being worse is rare. There just isn’t enough evidence that it will be worse, most cases are as expected—-less symptomatic. There are a few cases where getting COVID again and the patient is worse though. The current theory is these patients either never really cleared COVID fully and then some other event lowered their immune system and it took over full blown or that patients that had a more severe reaction to COVID for some reason (not known yet) can’t fight COVID as well and never really develop immunity—-whether they can develop immunity from the vaccine remains to be seen. There are also cases of “long COVID” where you have a mild case—-seemingly clear it then it comes back with a vengeance or you develop life altering symptoms seemingly out of no where. This is rare but disturbing.


In our Health System we have a promising 25 year old marathoner training for qualifying for the Olympics and now 3 months out from infection he can’t walk 200 feet. We see this more in young people. I am by no means an expert, my role is on the Rehab end—-exercising them under constant monitored guidance (O2 sats/BP/HR).


The youngest my colleagues have seen are 7-8 year olds. It is really sad...we don’t know if they will ever have the ability to get back to sports let alone how does it affect their long term health/longevity. Almost everyone of these were initially mild cases.


Not trying to cause hysteria...this isn’t a lot of cases. Maybe a couple per week out of 800 or so patients, but that number was ZERO last year and if it is your kid it doesn’t matter if it is rare.


T
 
airmorse
01/15/2021 08:04AM
 
That should be a real eye opener for some.


Thanks for your hard work and dedication in a very difficult time.
 
missmolly
01/15/2021 08:26AM
 
billconner: "missmolly - I search out the reports of natural immunity since i "recovered" and the first was 2-3 months. Yesterday I read of research that said 8 months. And the reports seem to always allow "or more". My optimistic self likes to think immunity is life long. it will just be a while before that's known for sure. And the immunity seems to be for at least 80-85% of population, maybe as high as 95%. "


It's hard to finger figures that give us a measure of certainty. I'm not surprised you found different numbers than me. Like you, I hope they're wrong about ephemeral immunity, that the antibodies will give us lasting immunity.
 
missmolly
01/15/2021 08:33AM
 
airmorse: "missmolly: "gymcoachdon: "missmolly: "Where'd you find that figure, Don? I did three searches, but couldn't locate it."





Yep, my bad. The site I looked at has 23 million US, and the line just below has the world number. That does throw off the math a little! Only 7% of the population has officially tested positive.
My point is that there is a large percentage of our population that has been exposed, and not tested. That could be because it was early in the pandemic, or that they had no, or mild, symptoms.
And my question about how much immunity is built up is a real one that may take years to find out.
Edit to add:
(by the way, I think your projection for 70% getting vaccinated is very optimistic)
"





No problem, Don. I asked because I'm pretty good at Internet searches and found nada. Now I know why.




Gosh, I hope you're wrong about 70% vaccinated being "very optimistic."




If vaccines are anathema for so many, it makes me wonder if I could get rich selling a serum that eliminated polio antibodies created by the polio vaccine. Would tens of millions of Americans line up to buy a chance at an iron lung or leg braces?




The most recent figure I read for the durability of the antibodies to provide COVID-19 immunity is merely five months, so those infected last summer are already susceptible to reinfection again and doctors are reporting that the second infection tends to be worse than the first. "




I hope they are wrong about the second infection being worse, if I get it again then I would end up in the hospital. And with this virus if your sick enough to be admitted into the hospital there is a good chance you won't be walking out.



Where did you get that info from. Thx."



My info doesn't come from some large clinical study, but rather anecdotes were the patient or doctor was interviewed and described the second case of illness as worst than the first. Here's a line I lifted from a dmagazine article:


"But researchers are still trying to understand how long those antibodies last. Fahmi had a patient who was hospitalized with COVID-19 and eventually recovered. Four or five months later, the patient was reinfected and ended up in the ICU and intubated.


“This was a totally different infection, not a lingering of the first time infection,” Fahmi says. “The second time, they got sicker.”


Here's another from a Tampa Bay Times story:


"The evidence for this comes from a Nevada man who was infected with two distinct versions of the novel coronavirus and became sick with COVID-19 both times. In fact, he was sicker the second time around and had to be admitted to a hospital so that doctors could give him extra oxygen to help him breathe."


I think T is right that reinfection is rare at this point, but if the antibodies aren't long lasting, we're likely to see more and more repeat illness, perhaps serious, going forward. Not enough time has passed to be secure in a prediction one way or the other.
 
billconner
01/15/2021 06:42PM
 
airmorse: "People that travel internationally are required by the country they are visiting (not every country requires this) to carry a vaccination card."


I've read of companies working on this but haven't read of it actually happening. Do you have any reference of this?
 
passthepitonspete
01/17/2021 01:03PM
 
How's it goin', eh? Greetings from the north side of the Boundary Waters, although I live quite a bit south of Quetico in Hamilton, Ontario. My cousins in St. Paul have a hard time processing this notion, that I live in Canada but south of them.


My girlfriend and I visited Quetico this past summer of 2020 for a 23-day trip - it was my first canoe trip to Quetico since the 90s. The park was pretty much deserted, and this was the middle to end of July! After leaving Stanton Bay, the only people we saw for the next three weeks were a pair of rangers who were doing a dark sky measurement in Kawnipi Lake. We didn't see anyone else until our penultimate day. The rangers told us that 91% of Quetico visitors in 2019 were Merricans, so that explains it.


It probably comes as no surprise that with no fishing pressure, the fishing was freaking awesome! Even popular places like the BBB chain had fish hanging out under the waterfalls, where you would normally never find them mid-summer. We found the pickerel particularly cooperative. OK, "walleyes", sheesh. We caught a few decent pike and Debbie nailed a smallie that was 4 lb 3 oz. Our biggest walleye was 10lb 2 oz, and we must have caught another ten in the five- to six-pound range, plus countless smaller ones.


It's a shame - for yous guys - that the Canada/You-Ess border isn't reciprocal in its crossing rules. Everyone up here knows that the land border is closed to non-essential traffic, but few Hosers know that it has always been possible for us to fly to the states from Canada for whatever reason. Accordingly she and I flew to Yosemite and California this fall for climbing. My partner and I were the only climbers on El Capitan, and what with the covid and forest fires, Yosemite was totally deserted. For about a week, ours was the only vehicle parked in the El Cap meadow. After climbing and caving in Mexico, we flew home in time to complete our 14-day quarantine in time for Christmas. Apparently about a quarter of Canadians who fly home do NOT properly quarantine! So after a 14-day quarantine and a negative covid test, I am amongst the cleanest of the clean ... for now.


Unfortunately, the Hosers do not extend the same border-crossing privilege to the Merricans who want to come up fishing and canoeing, and the lodge operators - whose business is typically about 90% from south of the border - are really hurting.


Here like most places, covid-19 is spiralling out of control. We were hitting new record high daily new cases, reckoned to be caused by get-togethers at Christmas and New Year's, in spite of there being an order limiting the Christmas get togethers to a maximum of 5, and basically no legal New Year's get togethers. So the Ontario government has just upped its lockdown to a "stay-at-home" order which means we are not supposed to leave home except for necessities like groceries, beer [we are, after all, a bunch of Hosers, eh?], work [if you must, sheesh] and a rather nebulous reason that you can leave home for exercise. Ice fishing is a great form of exercise, you know, exercising those elbow muscles? And although the premier was pretty much screaming on the TV the other day, "Stay the f*ck at home!" there isn't really anything preventing us from going ice fishing up north. [Cuz, like, there's no ice down here in the south] Ice fishing is named as a legit outdoor exercise activity, along with snowmobiling, snowshoeing, cross country skiing [not downhill, though heaven knows why!] and of course dogsledding. [Of course, what did you expect?] Beaver racing and moose chasing are not specifically named, but it's not a stretch to assume these are also legit, as they are so popular amongst the northern Ontarians. They say four weeks minimum, but it could last longer. The cops aren't allowed to stop us to ask if we are being compliant with the stay-at-home order, so don't speed or get stopped cuz your taillight is out, and you should be ok to go up north.


I would be amazed if the Canadian border reopens to yous guys before fall. There is no evidence that the pandemic is coming under control, only worsening. The vaccines are not coming in quickly enough yet either, and that will take time to catch on. What's the latest date on the poll? Whatever it is, put me down for the next day. It's gonna take a while.


Cheers, eh?
Pete
 
jhb8426
01/17/2021 02:40PM
 
Hey Hoser.
Thanks for the update, eh.
 
jhb8426
01/19/2021 01:45AM
 
passthepitonspete: "Like, no problem, eh?
"



The Great White North was always one of my favorites on Second City TV.
Ehh!!!
 
passthepitonspete
01/19/2021 10:51AM
 
Like, take OFF, eh?!



 
yellowcanoe
01/22/2021 12:09PM
 
Pete Ontario just closed everything outdoorsy. Like Algonquin and other PP.. Head scratcher to me. Those in the parks are less of a vector I would think.. But hey stuff em all back in Toronto!


I am just not seeing any sense to this. Someone complained on another forum that there are not enough outdoor trails in their area ( think it was Windsor) and the are going batty.
 
passthepitonspete
01/22/2021 12:20PM
 
Hey Yellow Canoe,


It is a very strange situation in Ontario right now. There is a stay-at-home order, meaning you are only allowed to leave home for groceries [and beer!], shopping, picking up food, gas, essential work. Other wise you are supposed to be home. It is very similar to the grey lockdown. Yes, the did indeed close the camping [and I think this includes backcountry camping] in provincial parks right now. Hopefully Algonquin and Quetico will be open by a week after ice-out! If not, well thankfully, there is no shortage of crown land for speckled and lake trout fishing opportunities in the spring. But hopefully the parks will reopen by then. I guess they just don't want to encourage any travel?


Now here is the strange bit: you are allowed to leave home for "exercise". Approved winter activities named on the government website include ice fishing, snowmobiling, XC skiing [downhill is closed], snowshoeing.


The cops are not allowed to stop you to ask you if you are complying with the stay-at-home order, they need a probable cause. If you are caught in violation, it is a $880 Cdn fine, about fifty Merrican bucks.


A famously publicized case was a woman who dropped her kids off at grandpa's place for babysitting while she went shopping. A neighbour saw the car and complained [seriously?!] and called the cops. AFTER she picked up the kids [it appears from the news story] the cops stopped her on the street, asked her where she was and why, then wrote her the ticket. She says she'll fight it, she should win because the cops did not have the right to stop her. I think....


So we are all wondering ... obviously the best thing is to NOT go out. BUT - could there be any better social distancing activity than ice fishing. Think about it? Are you going to get covid ice fishing, or in a grocery store?


I have been researching this exhaustively, and we are packing right now to go up north ice climbing for the weekend. I think it's legit. Except for the case described with mom above, I haven't found any stories of tickets being written except for legit stuff like house parties, violations in big box stores, and so on.


Anyway, I'll post up some ice climbing photos on this thread next week! I hope.

P.S. if any of you Merricans know what the new quarantine rules are for entering the You-Ess, post 'em up here. I'm actually a Merrican thanks to my dad being from St. Paul - so I can cross the border either direction no problem. As mentioned above, we had to quarantine for 14 days at home - with groceries [and beer!] being brought in by friends. If that's going to be the case in California this spring, it might put the kybosh on my attempted 64th ascent of El Capitan in the spring. I guess I'll just have to canoeing and fishing on crown land. ;) [as Bob & Doug McKenzie said in The Beer Hunter sketch, "Like, the punishment is not too bad, eh?]
 
mutz
01/22/2021 05:19PM
 
timatkn: "I don’t understand why the US is allowing people from other countries in and out with COVID out of control in Europe, Mexico, and Canada. Just seems weird to me?



The good news Pete is if you can’t get vaccinated in Canada you’re fellow Canadians are getting vaccinated in the US. I guess we owe you one since we’ve been coming across for the cheap meds for years :) I picked this article due to the expression on the woman’s face... Priceless "



That was supposedly private flights to Florida get vaccine go home ,was not really happening. Florida just said vaccination for Florida residents only and you have to show proof of residency.
My sister spends four months in Florida every winter they won’t qualify.
We got our first shot here in Michigan last week.
 
Pinetree
01/22/2021 08:17PM
 
As of January 15-th Canada, the provinces are reporting 40,283 new vaccinations administered for a total of 459,492 doses given. The provinces have administered doses at a rate of 1,212.403 per 100,000.


There were 5,850 new vaccines delivered to the provinces and territories for a total of 594,975 doses delivered so far. The provinces and territories have used 77.23 per cent of their available vaccine supply.
 
Pinetree
01/22/2021 10:09PM
 
Many diseases called instinct, have reared back up because some would not get vaccinated recently for these diseases.
 
passthepitonspete
01/22/2021 08:33PM
 
Absolutely, yes! Snowbird Hosers are getting the vaccine down in Florida faster than up here in the Great White North!


And shortly, our vaccine supply will be running dry for a few weeks. Sheesh.
 
timatkn
01/22/2021 08:04PM
 
Maybe Biden can trade vaccine for Quetico entries?
Canada begs US for vaccine


Mutz...Canadians are getting the vaccine in the US...especially Florida. There is no border control on our end. They are free to come too the US. My previous link documents that. I was not saying they were flying in on private jets. They are Canadian citizens that winter in Florida. Approximately 10,000 Canadian seniors have been vaccinated in the US...approximately 10,000 more than have been vaccinated in Canada :) The two articles do quote Canadians who came to the US just to get vaccinated though.



Snowbirds getting vaccinated
 
timatkn
01/23/2021 01:11AM
 
Pinetree: "As of January 15-th Canada, the provinces are reporting 40,283 new vaccinations administered for a total of 459,492 doses given. The provinces have administered doses at a rate of 1,212.403 per 100,000.



There were 5,850 new vaccines delivered to the provinces and territories for a total of 594,975 doses delivered so far. The provinces and territories have used 77.23 per cent of their available vaccine supply."



Not sure what your trying to say but every credible Canadian news source is saying Canada is vaccinating 3x slower than the US and citizen’s aren’t happy. The citizens getting vaccinated in the US are asking their government to come to the US to observe.

“ Ontario's vaccination program has been particularly slow: just 50,000 doses have been administered in the province since the inoculation campaign began on Dec. 15. If the province continues to administer an average of just 2,500 shots a day, it will take over a decade to vaccinate all adults in the province.”

T
 
billconner
01/23/2021 07:59AM
 
Canadians who "live" in Florida, even if just a few months a year, are still eligible for vaccination. A utility bill would prove residence.
 
Pinetree
01/23/2021 09:34AM
 
timatkn: "Pinetree: "As of January 15-th Canada, the provinces are reporting 40,283 new vaccinations administered for a total of 459,492 doses given. The provinces have administered doses at a rate of 1,212.403 per 100,000.




There were 5,850 new vaccines delivered to the provinces and territories for a total of 594,975 doses delivered so far. The provinces and territories have used 77.23 per cent of their available vaccine supply."




Not sure what your trying to say but every credible Canadian news source is saying Canada is vaccinating 3x slower than the US and citizen’s aren’t happy. The citizens getting vaccinated in the US are asking their government to come to the US to observe.


“ Ontario's vaccination program has been particularly slow: just 50,000 doses have been administered in the province since the inoculation campaign began on Dec. 15. If the province continues to administer an average of just 2,500 shots a day, it will take over a decade to vaccinate all adults in the province.”


T "



I agree Canadians and results show it is slow, just saying they are getting some
and the above numbers is what it was. Yes Canadians are dissatisfied like we are, maybe more.
 
missmolly
01/27/2021 08:48AM
 
passthepitonspete: "Actually, it's not our vaccination program that is slow in Ontario ... we have the facility to vaccinate huge amounts of people in a very short period of time.



What we don't have is vaccine!!



Our vaccine supply has been reduced substantially, so the powers-that-be are trying to calculate the maximum period they can extend the time between the first dose and the second dose. The number 42 days is being spoken of.



Right now, the hardest-hit retirement residences are targetted. Most of the residents and their healthcare workers have been vaccinated, but much slower than hoped. Various people are trying to predict when everyone who wants the vaccine will get it - hoping for the summer? This is, of course, not dependent on our government, but on how soon we get enough vaccine.



So once everyone in the long-term care homes is vaccinated, along with their healthcare workers, the next in line will be the old farts. I'm a Sexy Sexagenarian now, so hopefully I will make the next cut!



The stay-at-home order appears to be taking hold, and the numbers are coming down. Ontario was under various degrees of lockdown over Christmas, limiting social gatherings to a certain small number. But hey guess what? Lots of people had big gatherings over Christmas anyway, and very few $880 tickets were written - we don't have a lot of enforcement. So we had a big increase in new cases one to two weeks after Christmas. Same everywhere, I suppose?



Anyway, the stay-at-home order seems to working. This is our 7-day rolling average, and it is encouraging!





As you can see, we have not merely "flattened" the curve - it is pointing downwards steeply. "



Way to go, Ontario! Keep driving that damn death curve down.
 
gymcoachdon
01/27/2021 10:39AM
 
passthepitonspete: "Actually, it's not our vaccination program that is slow in Ontario ... we have the facility to vaccinate huge amounts of people in a very short period of time.



What we don't have is vaccine!!



Our vaccine supply has been reduced substantially, so the powers-that-be are trying to calculate the maximum period they can extend the time between the first dose and the second dose. The number 42 days is being spoken of.



Right now, the hardest-hit retirement residences are targetted. Most of the residents and their healthcare workers have been vaccinated, but much slower than hoped. Various people are trying to predict when everyone who wants the vaccine will get it - hoping for the summer? This is, of course, not dependent on our government, but on how soon we get enough vaccine.



So once everyone in the long-term care homes is vaccinated, along with their healthcare workers, the next in line will be the old farts. I'm a Sexy Sexagenarian now, so hopefully I will make the next cut!



The stay-at-home order appears to be taking hold, and the numbers are coming down. Ontario was under various degrees of lockdown over Christmas, limiting social gatherings to a certain small number. But hey guess what? Lots of people had big gatherings over Christmas anyway, and very few $880 tickets were written - we don't have a lot of enforcement. So we had a big increase in new cases one to two weeks after Christmas. Same everywhere, I suppose?



Anyway, the stay-at-home order seems to working. This is our 7-day rolling average, and it is encouraging!





As you can see, we have not merely "flattened" the curve - it is pointing downwards steeply. "



In Indiana, we had all the health department warnings about gathering for the holidays, and we saw the same big jump after Thanksgiving. There were no new restrictions, and I feared that after Christmas and New Year, we would see it jump even higher from it's already elevated position. Instead, we are seeing the exact same precipitous drop. Makes me think this virus does what it wants and can, regardless of our intentions and precautions.
Before anyone gets upset, I believe there is a virus, it kills people, and I wear a mask and followed all our lock down procedures. I just question the efficacy of it all.
 
Pinetree
01/27/2021 07:51PM
 
Flu and colds are way down this year because of masks and distancing in Minnesota.
 
schweady
01/27/2021 04:23PM
 
I noticed that the 'From Canada' permit line was zeroed out on the reservation site. Again. :-(

 
Unas10
01/27/2021 07:15PM
 
gymcoachdon: "passthepitonspete: "Actually, it's not our vaccination program that is slow in Ontario ... we have the facility to vaccinate huge amounts of people in a very short period of time.




What we don't have is vaccine!!




Our vaccine supply has been reduced substantially, so the powers-that-be are trying to calculate the maximum period they can extend the time between the first dose and the second dose. The number 42 days is being spoken of.




Right now, the hardest-hit retirement residences are targetted. Most of the residents and their healthcare workers have been vaccinated, but much slower than hoped. Various people are trying to predict when everyone who wants the vaccine will get it - hoping for the summer? This is, of course, not dependent on our government, but on how soon we get enough vaccine.




So once everyone in the long-term care homes is vaccinated, along with their healthcare workers, the next in line will be the old farts. I'm a Sexy Sexagenarian now, so hopefully I will make the next cut!




The stay-at-home order appears to be taking hold, and the numbers are coming down. Ontario was under various degrees of lockdown over Christmas, limiting social gatherings to a certain small number. But hey guess what? Lots of people had big gatherings over Christmas anyway, and very few $880 tickets were written - we don't have a lot of enforcement. So we had a big increase in new cases one to two weeks after Christmas. Same everywhere, I suppose?




Anyway, the stay-at-home order seems to working. This is our 7-day rolling average, and it is encouraging!







As you can see, we have not merely "flattened" the curve - it is pointing downwards steeply. "




In Indiana, we had all the health department warnings about gathering for the holidays, and we saw the same big jump after Thanksgiving. There were no new restrictions, and I feared that after Christmas and New Year, we would see it jump even higher from it's already elevated position. Instead, we are seeing the exact same precipitous drop. Makes me think this virus does what it wants and can, regardless of our intentions and precautions.
Before anyone gets upset, I believe there is a virus, it kills people, and I wear a mask and followed all our lock down procedures. I just question the efficacy of it all."



It would be interesting to see a graph of the course of a "normal" flu season as opposed to the Wuhan Flu. I know the numbers would be much different, but it is the pattern i am curious about.
 
GraniteCliffs
01/27/2021 11:03PM
 
Unas, please remember many find the term Wuhan Flu deeply offensive. I think, but am not sure, you are referring to Covid.
 
inspector13
01/28/2021 07:48AM
 

The accepted scientific name for this novel Corona virus is SARS-CoV-2.



 
billconner
01/30/2021 08:01AM
 
progress maybe


reopening article
 
passthepitonspete
02/10/2021 05:21PM
 
Have a read:


https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2021/01/government-of-canada-introduces-further-restrictions-on-international-travel.html


Canada has:


- cancelled spring break
- instituted a second covid-19 test immediately when you land at the airport
- forced returning travellers to stay at a government-approved hotel for 3 Days to await the results of the test, at a cost of $2,000 per person for that 3-Day period


So basically, if we leave the country, Upon returning we will be punished financially.


My point in sharing this is that the government is not loosening things up, they are tightening things up.
 
billconner
02/11/2021 06:14AM
 
passthepitonspete: "Have a read:



https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2021/01/government-of-canada-introduces-further-restrictions-on-international-travel.html



Canada has:



- cancelled spring break
- instituted a second covid-19 test immediately when you land at the airport
- forced returning travellers to stay at a government-approved hotel for 3 Days to await the results of the test, at a cost of $2,000 per person for that 3-Day period



So basically, if we leave the country, Upon returning we will be punished financially.



My point in sharing this is that the government is not loosening things up, they are tightening things up."



I thought the current lock down was lifted and stores and restaurants were reopening? link
 
CedarHillX
02/11/2021 08:35AM
 
January 2022 - after all Canadian residents have been offered the vaccine.


As a resident of Ontario, I am being told to expect a vaccine in September 2021, but I am sceptical and expect the date to push out.
 
billconner
02/11/2021 12:17PM
 
Googling "canada vaccine" does make it sound like a long way off. If they opened the border, you could come to US and get it.
 
Argo
02/12/2021 04:32PM
 
billconner: "Canadians who "live" in Florida, even if just a few months a year, are still eligible for vaccination. A utility bill would prove residence. "


Running joke around here is that more Canadians are getting vaccinated in FLA than in Canada ;)
 
passthepitonspete
02/12/2021 04:36PM
 
"Running joke around here is that more Canadians are getting vaccinated in Florida than in Canada ;) "


That's not a joke. It's truth! Vaccine rollouts here are incredibly slow, we are like 40th in the world. But how 'bout those Israelis? They are lightyears ahead of the rest of the world in vaccinations. And they have nukes. Don't mess with those buggers.


But can they fish? Well, of course they can, Jesus was a fine fisherman. Happy Friday night everyone!
 
missmolly
02/13/2021 06:44AM
 
Argo: "missmolly: "passthepitonspete: "Actually, it's not our vaccination program that is slow in Ontario ... we have the facility to vaccinate huge amounts of people in a very short period of time.





What we don't have is vaccine!!





Our vaccine supply has been reduced substantially, so the powers-that-be are trying to calculate the maximum period they can extend the time between the first dose and the second dose. The number 42 days is being spoken of.





Right now, the hardest-hit retirement residences are targetted. Most of the residents and their healthcare workers have been vaccinated, but much slower than hoped. Various people are trying to predict when everyone who wants the vaccine will get it - hoping for the summer? This is, of course, not dependent on our government, but on how soon we get enough vaccine.





So once everyone in the long-term care homes is vaccinated, along with their healthcare workers, the next in line will be the old farts. I'm a Sexy Sexagenarian now, so hopefully I will make the next cut!





The stay-at-home order appears to be taking hold, and the numbers are coming down. Ontario was under various degrees of lockdown over Christmas, limiting social gatherings to a certain small number. But hey guess what? Lots of people had big gatherings over Christmas anyway, and very few $880 tickets were written - we don't have a lot of enforcement. So we had a big increase in new cases one to two weeks after Christmas. Same everywhere, I suppose?





Anyway, the stay-at-home order seems to working. This is our 7-day rolling average, and it is encouraging!









As you can see, we have not merely "flattened" the curve - it is pointing downwards steeply. "






Way to go, Ontario! Keep driving that damn death curve down."




I'm very confused as to why the curves of places that are in extreme lockdown resemble those of places like FLA that are relatively lax. "



I posit that Florida has a climate advantage. I further suggest that the Sun ain't the only thing cooking (and keeping folks outside), that Florida is cooking its numbers. As has been broadly reported, the woman who ran their COVID-tracking program reported false data, was fired for it, and was arrested for continuing to blow the whistle.
 
mutz
02/13/2021 05:37PM
 






 
timatkn
02/14/2021 11:12AM
 
Argo: "missmolly: "passthepitonspete: "Actually, it's not our vaccination program that is slow in Ontario ... we have the facility to vaccinate huge amounts of people in a very short period of time.





What we don't have is vaccine!!





Our vaccine supply has been reduced substantially, so the powers-that-be are trying to calculate the maximum period they can extend the time between the first dose and the second dose. The number 42 days is being spoken of.





Right now, the hardest-hit retirement residences are targetted. Most of the residents and their healthcare workers have been vaccinated, but much slower than hoped. Various people are trying to predict when everyone who wants the vaccine will get it - hoping for the summer? This is, of course, not dependent on our government, but on how soon we get enough vaccine.





So once everyone in the long-term care homes is vaccinated, along with their healthcare workers, the next in line will be the old farts. I'm a Sexy Sexagenarian now, so hopefully I will make the next cut!





The stay-at-home order appears to be taking hold, and the numbers are coming down. Ontario was under various degrees of lockdown over Christmas, limiting social gatherings to a certain small number. But hey guess what? Lots of people had big gatherings over Christmas anyway, and very few $880 tickets were written - we don't have a lot of enforcement. So we had a big increase in new cases one to two weeks after Christmas. Same everywhere, I suppose?





Anyway, the stay-at-home order seems to working. This is our 7-day rolling average, and it is encouraging!









As you can see, we have not merely "flattened" the curve - it is pointing downwards steeply. "






Way to go, Ontario! Keep driving that damn death curve down."




I'm very confused as to why the curves of places that are in extreme lockdown resemble those of places like FLA that are relatively lax. "



There could be truth in what MM said about some states cooking the books on cases counts...it doesn’t explain the similarities between locked down areas and non locked down areas.


This is all conjecture but one theory is in lockdown areas, People have their “Bubble”of people they are around frequently, they think they are taking precautions but all it takes is one person in their bubble to expose themselves to another “bubble” then because the “bubbles” are in closer contact than usual the entire bubble of people get infected. If you actually lockdown then it is more effective...I really don’t know many people that have technically locked down.


For example, I had an elderly woman that was afraid to come in to the clinic so she did a video visit...no big deal, she was trying to be as safe as possible...during the video visit the neighbor came over to her house to visit, 2 grandchildren got dropped off by 2 different children and her husband came home from having lunch with buddies at one of their houses. She actually thought she was in lock down and being safe? This maybe a more extreme example but SNL recently had a great skit making fun of people that think they are following lock down rules and looking down on others that weren’t but in reality many people have lapses...


Look at the Canadian Thanksgiving...from all reports many people ignored government rules and still gathered together...then there was a spike later...despite being more locked doing than the US. Lock downs don’t work if people don’t follow them.


In my state we have been very conservative with opening things up, I don’t agree with all of the decisions but I feel all of the decisions were made in earnest to try to save lives. So not trying to make this a politics issue, more of a possible explanation. In general though lockdown area/states have spikes in cases but they have better control of them. It is complicated...Look at Iowa and MN. MN has been more shut down, more masking and they have 31% less deaths per capita than Iowa. So it looks like lockdowns work...but then if you look at Wisconsin/MN MN has significantly less cases but death rates are almost the same? I don’t know how to explain that?

T
 
mutz
02/14/2021 02:35PM
 
Isn’t it amazing that if a state opens up and they don’t spike all over the place, they must be cooking the numbers.
I know quite a few people wintering in Florida and have talked to several since we are heading down in two weeks. Everybody that I have talked with, say that if they didn’t feel as safe in Florida as they do at home they would go home. The vast majority of these people are 70 +.
Florida here We come.
 
passthepitonspete
02/14/2021 05:38PM
 
Ontario had a bit of a spike after Canadian Thanksgiving in early October, but a huge spike at Christmas and New Year's in spite of orders limiting size of get-togethers.


Ontario will begin to reopen on Tuesday. Health regions are colour coded and depending on how few cases there are in each region will determine what services will be permitted. But a lot of businesses and restaurants will be reopening, along with the usual social distancing requirements. Kids will be going back to school almost everywhere, except the hardest-hit places near Toronto. The school spring break that is normally in March has been deferred to the middle of April.


My know-it-all sister the doctor says that the decisions are not based on medical realities but rather the desire for the premier to get the economy rolling again, and says the openings are too soon and are certain to lead to a third wave. She predicts a big spike in April, primarily due to the new variants of the virus which are emerging now.


We shall see...
 
Pinetree
02/15/2021 09:06PM
 
Tribune
 
Pinetree
02/15/2021 09:07PM
 

 
Pinetree
02/15/2021 09:05PM
 
Feb. 15:

Cancel your vacation plans:' Canada tightening border rules amid COVID-19 pandemic
Minnesota border businesses look for leniency.
By Brooks Johnson Star Tribune FEBRUARY 15, 2021 — 10:30AM

FILE-The Grand Portage Point of Entry on the U.S. border with Canada closed to nonessential travel in March last year to slow the spread of COVID-19 and will soon see even more restrictions for those entering Canada.
DULUTH – Canada further restricted nonessential travel across its border Monday in a blow to Minnesota businesses that have been eager to welcome back customers from the north.

he country has kept its border closed to nonessential foreign visitors for nearly 11 months and likely will for the foreseeable future. New measures to require COVID-19 tests when entering the country are meant to discourage travel by Canadians to the U.S. and elsewhere.


"I would like to request all people who would consider nonessential travel: Now is not the time. Cancel your vacation plans," Minister of Public Safety Bill Blair urged Canadians during a news conference on Friday. "Our shared priority must be to keep each other safe."
Northern Minnesota resorts, especially on the Northwest Angle, have long awaited looser border restrictions or some exemptions, but Canadian officials have not budged even amid pressure from U.S. officials.

While some border businesses have been buoyed by a surge of Minnesotans heading north amid the pandemic, the continued border closure has taken a toll on others.

"Our Northwest Angle resorts are struggling," said Joe Henry, executive director of Lake of the Woods Tourism. "Tourists going to Canada will often stay in Baudette hotels before crossing in the morning — that isn't happening either, so we've lost that business."

"The special relationship held between the U.S. and our neighbors to the north is beneficial to Minnesotans and Canadians alike, and I know that many of the border communities on the Canadian side are hurting from this closure as well," the congressman said.
Canadian officials say they are trying to strike a balance between "a functioning society and controlling the virus," especially as new highly contagious variants emerge and vaccinations are just beginning to accelerate.

"Any increased spread could jeopardize our collective sacrifices," Health Minister Patty Hajdu said Friday.
As of Feb. 22, those flying into Canada will need to take a COVID-19 test on arrival and wait up to three days in a hotel for the results before traveling onward, which could cost travelers more than $2,000. Another test is required following a 14-day quarantine.


Those driving into Canada need to present a recent negative COVID-19 test at the border as of Monday; Canadians could be fined or prosecuted for failing to do so, and foreigners denied entry.


Anyone entering the country is required to quarantine for 14 days, though truck drivers, emergency responders and other essential workers will be still exempt.



 
passthepitonspete
02/16/2021 10:45AM
 
Pinetree:


"Cancel your vacation plans:' Canada tightening border rules amid COVID-19 pandemic" etc etc...



Remember where you heard this first, eh? ;)