Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Trip Planning Forum :: Feedback for first ever BWCA adventure
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mgraber |
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boonie |
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Mad_Angler |
Rs130754: "... 5.4 lbs is very light. There are definitely lighter tents. But I suspect that nearly everyone on this forum uses a heavier tent. The REI Taj3 had a cult following on this forum. It came it about 7-8 lbs. Taj3 |
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boonie |
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BobDobbs |
Practice lifting a 1/2 sheet of plywood overhead from the ground. See how that feels. Its a similar motion and load. Your going to have to perform that motion several times a day while fatigued. 2) going alone - probably not ideal, but more ideal than not going at all. You pays your money and takes your chances. You admit to being a big dude, but didn't indicate how much exercise you get. Now would be the time to get serious about getting more. 3) consider an out and back trip, rather than a point A to B. If your struggling, you can turn around early, and go back the way you came in. If your crushing it, you can do side trips, keep going an extra day, whatever. Having that kind of flexibility is why I love the BW. If you commit to an A to B, or a loop trip, you may find yourself in trouble and alone. 4) This is not mean to be brutal, but it is meant to be honest. Your doing a great thing for yourself and your health. Having said that, in the condition you are in (weight, previous injury, being alone, inexperienced), there is an elevated level of risk that you should address. Start exercising now. Try and find a partner to share the experience and load. Consider an EPIRB. But whatever you do, don't NOT go, just realize its going to take some doing. hope that helps |
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billconner |
Rs130754: "Well, my permit is purchased, June 19th out of South Kawishiwi River EP#32. Now I just need to contact an outfitter and determine my trip length. I also may have a friend who will be able to join me. I am thinking 4-5 nights and based on the sound advice from all of you an out and back trip will work best. That way I don't have to worry about making it to a different take out point. The loop from Bald Eagle through Gull, Pietro, Camdre, Clearwater, and Turtle is a great but longish day trip. I've done it twice. Lunch on Clearwater. The Portage to Gull is the hardest one so I suggest do that first. |
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jdevries |
JD |
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Rs130754 |
I ordered a Mckenzie and Voyager map for the area. Only think I am not sure of is how long it will take me to get from the EP to Clear or Gabbro. I thought about two nights on Gabbro or Bald Eagle with day trips to Clearwater or Turtle. Then a couple on my way back on the river with trips further north or other lakes. I have lots of emails from members and I appreciate all of your help in making this become a reality. Now off to post in the gear section, I need thoughts on a camp skillet... and the addiction continues. |
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Rs130754 |
1.) Would a solo canoe be the way to go? I am a "hefty" guy at 6'2", pushing 375 (you just re-read that I was a first grade teacher didn't you) and am broad shouldered. A neck injury which kept me down and out for over a year didn't do me any justice but I still enjoy deer, coyote, and turkey hunting here in Iowa as well as my jaunts to the trout streams in NE Iowa. I thought a smaller tandem paddled in reverse from the bow might be an option but I just am not sure and I am sure a solo would be lighter. 2.) Is going alone for a first trip even advisable? Again I am an outdoorsy kind of guy so things like setting up camp, making fire, and other such tasks would not be foreign to me. I will admit I never had to purify water, but think I could manage a gravity and bladder system. I am most worried about locating correct portages and finding campsites. 3.) Thoughts on this route for a first timer. I was thinking of entering at EP#32 South Kawishiwi River (124 rods) to, Eskwagama (78 rods) to, Clear (94 rods) to, Kawisiwi River (62 rods) to, Little Gabro (120 rods) and then come out at EP#33 Little Gabro Lake. I am hoping to pick up some maps this weekend so I have a sense of scale to know how many miles this would be. I could also make Eskwagama a day trip or one for next time if time wouldn't allow. 4.) As a teacher I believe in reflection and learning from others. I am open to brutal honesty, remember I teach first grade and there are no filters at that age. If you have a route or suggestion that would help let me know. I am not set in my ways. I just don't want to look back in another 10 years at 50 and say "I should have...." Thanks and I am sorry about the length of the post, just not many overnight paddles in my part of the world to bounce questions off of. |
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boonie |
I made my first solo trip for the same reason - I was either going alone or it was probably never going to happen was the conclusion I came to after 3 years of trying. I can't say anything about June - I always go in Sept. One thing I did learn was that paddling in the BW wasn't the same as floating down a river, but I did survive. You will too. If there's anything I say that you don't understand, just ask. I don't know how many days/nights you plan to be in the BW, but your route is not overly ambitious so I wouldn't worry about that. I'm going to assume you'll "double" portage, meaning you'll carry half your stuff across, then walk back for the rest, which means you'll walk each portage 3X. Voyageur Maps has online maps (zoomable and scrollable) that you can look at. Map 7 is the one with your route. Assuming you "double portage" your route will be about 16 miles, more if you triple portage, less if you single portage. Some people would do that in a day, some 2 days, so if you're going for that long or more, very doable. I usually aim for 8-10 miles a day, which takes me around 4 hours, depending on number and distance of portages, which are usually a little slower going for me. (1) I can't answer your question about the canoe; you make 2 1/2 of me ;) A kevlar tandem will weigh about 10 pounds more than a kevlar solo. (2) Yes, you can do this trip solo. I wouldn't worry too much about finding portages and campsites as long as you can orient the map and stay found. Most are fairly obvious and you're constrained by the rivers/lakes, so not as difficult as overland travel. If you're supposed to be taking the portage/stream SE out of Clear Lake, just make sure the compass doesn't say NW. Keep reading and asking questions. Filtering water is not a big problem, especially solo - all you really need is a Sawyer Squeeze/Sawyer Mini and maybe a Sawyer Water Filter Bottle or some similar setup. |
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billconner |
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TominMpls |
-- IMO solo canoes are more tippy than tandems. While a big solo is more fun than a small tandem, I bet you'll have an easier go of it with a small tandem. I like your idea of using a 16' tandem and paddling it reverse, just make sure your outfitter knows that's what you're doing so they can help you choose a boat that's amenable to that. I really doubt you'll find the weight of a kevlar tandem to be any issue. Have fun planning and then doing it! |
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NoisyWetHermit |
I think your plan sounds great. Have fun and be careful. Take it easy and enjoy the BW. I went for the first time in 2016 and now I plan to go every year. |
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Tony |
billconner: "I'm 66, 6-2, 225-230. You'll do fine. I'd suggest a Souris River Q16 set up solo would seem ideal for you. Working with a good (most are) outfitter would be a good idea. And I aim for 10-12 miles a day - straight line as if single portage but I double - so maybe think about route options. Once in, you can go wherever you want." I was thinking this same canoe. I think some of the outfitters in Ely rent the Quetico 16. The problem with two different entry and exit points is arrainging for a shuttle for your vehicle or a pick up from an outfitter. I find a loop much better when I go on my solos Also take a look at the solo forum there is alot of info there. special interest groups Go down to solo tripping and click on add me to the group. |
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boonie |
Tom also brings up a good point, although I don't know what your plan was with the entry being different from the exit. Did you plan for an outfitter shuttle or just to walk back to your car at the entry? As near as I can tell from Voyageur/Google, it's about a 1.6 mile walk. With your route, you could loop back to your entry by taking the 280-rod portage to Little Bruin and the short one back to the River vs. taking the 200-rod portage out of Little Gabbro to the entry. BTW, you may have looked this up, but if you haven't, 320 rods = 1 mile. |
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Rs130754 |
I also though about going out of Snowbank or Moose and then base camping a couple nights on Wind and doing day trips to get some miles under me without having to hump all my gear on a daily basis. Would that be a better option? I think I will paddle a tandem in reverse as I plan on fishing. I also think I can get everything into on pack. My 3 person Mountain Hardware Tent (5.4 pounds) is the bulkiest item. Since I am going solo I can scale down my cookware to a stove, fuel, and my bush pot with skillet which all nests nicely. Again I applaud you all for sharing your experiences. Some forums make you feel stupid or incompetent if you ask a question, not here. I hope after my trip to do a write up that may also help someone in similar circumstances. -Ross |
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billconner |
The Q16 is a little smaller and lighter than a tandem but enough narrower that's it's easier to paddle and of course the center seat helps. I know CCO has had them - preferred solo of one of the owners. Give it a look. |
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cyclones30 |
As for your questions....the main map providers (Fisher, MacKenzie, Voyageur, etc) have fairly accurate maps. I've never had much issue finding the right portages or campsites, especially if on a well traveled route or near an entry point which it sounds like you will be. Your suggested route sounds good, I've never been in that area. The interactive map on this site, or others, is a good place to start. Shows all the portages and sites, also gives reviews on some of them. Voyageur maps shows their full maps on the web so you can zoom in and pan around to see exactly what you'd see on paper. I do not own, nor have I paddled a solo canoe, but with your size and with gear I'd say paddling a smaller kevlar tandem flipped around would be the way to go. (again, personal opinion) |
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cyclones30 |
http://bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=forum.thread&threadId=1062318&forumID=15&confID=1 |
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bhouse46 |
Even if you have a bigger load and are not in such good shape making an extra trip at each portage is still something to consider. Most of us shoot for double portaging with more minimalist folks going over in one trip. Part of the beauty of the BWCA is found on the portages. The forest and things growing there provide multiple photo ops so that extra trip back can actually add to the overall experience. |
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tomke17 |
Tom |
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boonie |
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BlackSwanAdventures |
also i would very strongly consider "training" for the BWCA with cardio/ functional lifting.. it would help to chisel u down i little bit. save those knees! we are doing the same. its not fun getting ur butt whooped by some of these portages! |
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Mashuga |
Paddle Day Thread |
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bwcadan |
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Fried Fish |
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andym |
I might try to find a route where you start out with some shorter portages. I've found that for newcomers, it is nice to break them in with shorter portages and more paddling. But that doesn't mean you can't do it the other way. |
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gopher2307 |
If you asked me during my first 10 years going to the BWCA, I would have said going solo for a first trip is a bad idea. I learned most of what I know from other people during that time. More recently though, I've realized the boundary waters is actually a lot less intimidating than I built it up to be . I've seen so many people in/out on portages bringing ridiculous stuff (at least, to me) and being extremely inefficient. I always used to assume they are going to be miserable. The reality is though, they are all having a great time so who cares if they don't have the right stuff or do it quite right? PMA - Positive mental attitude - if you have that you will do just fine solo, and probably learn faster than I did. No doubt though, you will assuredly regret not bringing something and regret carrying other things in unnecessarily. My biggest preparation tips for newbs: 1. Waterproof everything for transport. Everything in your canoe will be wet, probably not from dumping your canoe in a lake but from paddles dripping over the canoe back/forth and from loading/unloading. If it shouldn't get wet and you don't a waterproof pack, wrap it in a garbage bag and squeeze the air out before shoving in a pack. 2. Everything you bring needs to be in a pack, nothing loose for portages - ok, your paddle and maybe your life vest can be loose. Poles get strapped into the canoe, reels are packed. Plan on double portaging, including the canoe, but not triple. Those requirements should guide you to determine how much stuff to bring. 3. Dry foot vs wet foot approach - Give it some thought. I'm sure you can find debates elsewhere on this site via the search feature. Wet foot is the way to go if you ask me...you do not need to carefully balance on uneven rocks at portages, you won't care about your foot going in the water at portages which is much trickier than you think. 4. Pack fewer clothes than you think, particularly in mid-summer. 5. I'd recommend you basecamp and go in/out at the same location. Your first trip will be a packing and portaging gong show. I think you should aim for 3-5 portages with cumulative portage length of 200 - 450 rods to get a feel for it but not go too far. Paddling is the easy part. I go to EP 16 Moose River North all the time. For reference, newbs I've brought do not want to go past Agnes. 6. Boundary waters trips are pretty hard work. Bring your PMA. 7. Plan for a way to keep the food away from critters. 8. I've never seen a bear up there, you probably won't either. I've seen a lot of bear crap up there, you probably will too. 9. Sounds like you're a paddler so may know this, but you should consider using a kayak paddle rather than a canoe paddle. Saves much energy. 10. YouTube is an excellent resource if you want to see what anything looks like - portages, campsites, etc. There lots of videos of people touring their campsites and even several of people walking full portages. Don't be intimidated - you should do it. |
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boonie |
billconner: ""I think I will paddle a tandem in reverse as I plan on fishing." I'm going to agree strongly with Bill here for all the reasons stated and then some. It was originally a small tandem that they replaced the bow and stern seats with a center seat. As such it's plenty big enough for you and 50 lbs. of gear. As a novice paddler, you'll be much better off with the SR Q16 solo than trying to paddle a larger tandem from the bow. Canoes |
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Bumstead |
andym: "I'm going to second the Q16 set up as a solo and not a tandem paddled backwards. Here's why. When I solo my Q17 backwards, I have to put a big drybag filled with water (about 40 lbs) in the other end. Otherwise the bow pops up and it is hard to control the boat, especially if it gets windy. You are double my weight and so you are talking about needing double that weight in the other end. That's a lot of weight to deal with. If your camping gear is going to weigh 80 lbs then maybe it will work. Or you could carry 40 lbs of camping gear and use the drybag trick to provide the extra weight. But I think the Q16 solo is a good way to go. The seat in the center gets rid of the need to balance the weight fore and aft. Also, that is a good stable hull at a variety of weights and so should do well for you. I agree with this idea of either solo setup or else trim weight. If you didn't use water bags in front for trim weight, you would find paddling into the wind to be a MAJOR ordeal. With the front end light, it will wind vane around easily when into a head or cross wind. Going solo.....Where your PFD no matter what.....Stick close to shores when paddling lakes that are wind blown.......Don't rush on portages and be intentional about your footing, as a bad ankle twist or worse would be more of an issue when solo. I hope you go for it and have a great trip! |
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boonie |
A lot of good points in Gopher's post to think about. The line about regretting not bringing something and regret carrying others is so true . . . It reminded of . . . packing lists. A good thing to have so you don't forget the TP! :) I carry a lot fewer things now and I have gradually lightened and simplified what I do. I'll email you some information some guys on the solo forum wanted to see. Other good thoughts are waterproofing, packing (no loose items), wet foot approach and portaging, food protection, YouTube, etc. |
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Rs130754 |
I weighed my coyote hunting set up and with rifle, heavier boots, clothes, my whites and electronic call I am right at 65 pounds and I walk this no problem through snow about 1 to 1 1/2 miles in depending on wind direction with no problem. Most of my gear is pretty light weight except for my tent and sleeping bag. The bag is a 15 degree bag but I will probably get something not as warm, perhaps a quilt for added weight savings. I will have to post a gear list. Would anyone consider just a tarp and bag set up or is that asking for misery? I have done this before at State Parks in Iowa overnight and it wasn't too bad, but I didn't get rain either. My main goal is to not get bogged down by "stuff", I want to experience the surroundings and not worry about setting up solar panels to charge an iPhone. Also, I learned in Iowa City there is a retailer that carries Wenonah canoes and they have a place you can demo them, at ice out I plan on making a trip to see what might work for me. With my gear it will be a good litmus test. Seriously, you ladies and gents have been great and I feel like I owe you all a beer, but hopefully you will settle for some pics of my trip upon my return. |
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billconner |
I think the biggest hazard is trying to stick to a plan and doing things that - if it went bad - on retrospect you'd know you should have stayed put or gone a different direction or whatever. I try not to plan much more than a an entry point and date, and a general direction and take enough maps to cover wherever I might go. It is vacation and leisure time after all. If you did want a true solo, the Souris River Tranquility - Piragis has had one for rental past few years - might work. It gets little respect among the canoe gurus here but I love mine. I easily cruise at 5 mph with a yak paddle and did fine on a snotty day on LLC with big rollers and white caps. I'd say higher capacity than many solos of similar weight - under 35 pounds - and very stable initially and later. |
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Northwoodsman |
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andym |
If you are carrying that much gear through the woods you are a strong human being. You will do great in the BW. |
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TomT |
andym: "I'm going to second the Q16 set up as a solo and not a tandem paddled backwards. Here's why. When I solo my Q17 backwards, I have to put a big drybag filled with water (about 40 lbs) in the other end. Otherwise the bow pops up and it is hard to control the boat, especially if it gets windy. " This is great advice. At your weight make sure you are paddling from a center seat. My other advice is to go light and don't be in a rush. Stay off the water if the wind is up. Get a very early start in the day to paddle to beat the winds. Bring a tarp. Keep a journal to not only track how it's going but also to keep notes on ways to improve for next time. Bring something to read. Enjoy! |
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boonie |
I wouldn't exchange the tent for a tarp - and not just because of rain and wind; there's the bugs ;). Seriously, I did a lot of trips with a 5-lb tent and you're not going to save enough there to make the trade-offs worth it. Don't go too light on the sleep system since it can get colder at night sometimes than you might think - check the historical averages, but especially the record low for the dates of your trip. You may save a little there depending on how much it weighs. I take a 20-degree bag in Sept, although it's a fairly light one. |
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hooky |
I kayak fish and camp a lot, so I was used to some of it and other things, not so much. I'd never paddled a solo canoe or portaged before that first trip. It's not rocket science. Keep your shoulders above over your hips and get in and out slowly without leaning. Portaging is just backpacking with some loading and unloading at each end. Good advice above. Just decide you're going to have fun and don't make it a death march. You'll love it. |
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FOG51 |
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bhouse46 |
You mentioned the Iowa City outlet. A great store with long history of good gear and great service. Indianola, just south of Des Moines, also has a great outlet and will be hosting a paddle expo Feb 9-11 including some good deals on boats. I plan to go and have input others might show up. And if you can make the Indian Creek event (see related posts) you could also get some face time with several Iowa paddlers. |