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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: The question no one wants to ask...
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| Portage99 |
dentondoc: "scotttimm: "Was just reading this great article (below) about what it is like to disappear into the wilderness and reappear to a completely changed world. " WOW!! What an experience. I appreciate you sharing that experience. I teach senior college students (who are understandably shaken and stressed about their future. We have converted to all online instruction. I was telling my group this week about all the historical trauma that populations have been through and survived. I was sharing how everyone felt after 911. And, we eventually healed. |
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| Pinetree |
Something not brought up tho maybe non residents would not be allowed to cross into Minnesota. Were jumping to a lot of conclusions now. |
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| luft |
Grizzlyman: "So if they close it, and you go anyway. Who’s going to stop you?" I was wondering the same thing. Much like when all the National Parks closed and people were still visiting them. |
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| NotLight |
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| Hoaf |
Pinetree: "One thing that is two months off. I also think it could go to a self registration or completely on line process. I don't think they will shut it down. I am sure day permits will always be available. This seems to me the most logical if not most likely path forward. I also don't think they will shut it down for two reasons: 1) not practical / possible to enforce and 2) economic impact. Possibly a third... at some point, life has to continue... we need to go on living and making a living. Can't just print more money to make up for the economic losses. These steps are all about flattening the curve, and buying time for the healthcare system to "catch up", because the virus is already out of the box and spread is inevitable. How long that will take is uncertain right now. |
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| nofish |
thegildedgopher: " I have a slim margin of hope but its also getting thin. If we want things to be better in 2 months the government will need to be willing and ready to make the hard decision to shut things down right now. Unfortunately the word coming from the Feds is the exact opposite and that they want things opened back up in just a couple weeks. Even if they shut things down right now and order shelter in place it would need to last 5-6 weeks for it to work. The majority of the people that currently have the virus would be through the contagious period in 2 weeks, those family members that get the virus from people that currently have it would be through it in the following 2 weeks, and then you'd have an additional week or 2 for any lingering infections to run their course. After that time life could start getting back to normal. This is what worked in China and other places and as hard as it is its likely the least damaging course of action. Without it the virus could continue in the US for months and months, it would overwhelm the hospital system and likely keep business close for a lot longer the 5-6 weeks. If that happens I think closing the BWCA would be the least of our concerns. |
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| jfinn |
nofish: "Pinetree: " Were jumping to a lot of conclusions now. " Do we? South Korea yes, China? Hum......... |
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| inspector13 |
Cook County MN is now asking visitors and cabin owners to stay away due to limited health care infrastructure. Travel Advisory |
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| nofish |
Pinetree: " Were jumping to a lot of conclusions now. " There sure is a lot of free time to be doing that. We should all be mindful to not think too far ahead. The future is a very uncertain place. This time last week I was at home packing for a trip to France, now that is all but unthinkable. We're living in a fast changing world at the moment with no certainty of what the next day will bring. All we can do is rely on the facts that we do know and not worry about the things we don't. We do know that China seems to have been able to turn things around in about 6 weeks and life is starting to slowly get back to normal there. If we all do our parts to slow or prevent the spread of the virus there is no reason things won't look better here in six weeks as well. |
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| Bushpilot |
inspector13: "Cook County MN is now asking visitors and cabin owners to stay away due to limited health care infrastructure. I can understand and respect that. One hospital in the county and no ICU. Many elderly citizens. |
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| nofish |
cowdoc: "If it is shut down, it will probably due to the Gov. workers that run it, maintain it, issue permits, etc......have been sent home on mandated leave or reassigned to other gov. agencies to aid in crisis control. It will essentially be closed." I agree that this would likely the reason for a shutdown if one exists. Perhaps they'd allow self issued permits like they do in the off seasons. |
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| marsonite |
Lets hope that somehow we can get case numbers to go down, but it sure doesn't look good at the moment. |
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| Eyedocron |
Nearly 30 years a go I took a Scout crew into the Quetico one late July. When we came out, we went to Ely and discovered gas prices had tripled. Asked why and was told "We're going to war!" Why and with whom? Iraq had invaded Kuwait. |
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| thegildedgopher |
I'm still holding out a wedge of hope that things will be different 2 months from now, but the wedge is getting thin. I have a September trip on the books as well, so maybe I'll need to start using that as my "light at the end of the tunnel." |
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| Pinetree |
fadersup: "Looks like National Parks are encouraging people to spread out for the time being, waiving entrance fees."yes there waved |
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| x2jmorris |
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| Grizzlyman |
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| Moonpath |
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| boonie |
sns: "Really would like to press the fast-forward button right now." Amen to that. |
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| sns |
SinglePortage: "They have effectively closed the AP, CDT and PCT hiking trails. If they feel the need to close 2-3,000 mile hiking trails I assume that they can close the Bdub too." Good point. I wonder if Governor Walz orders shelter-in-place for Minnesotans, does that effectively close the BWCA too...? I'm not clear on what you are allowed to do under such a directive. |
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| scotttimm |
Blissful Ignorance - Rafters and Coronavirus |
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| MPRANG01 |
My brother is experiencing the same situation where he lives in Friday Harbor in the San Juan Islands WA. All the summer residents are coming to escape Seattle and other areas but the medical infrastructure and supply chain can't accommodate this influx early in the season. In my completely uneducated opinion the shelter in place order needs to be extended to most of the nation to allow the medical systems to have a chance to handle the peak without experiencing a major second wave. Easy for me to say as at this point I am still employed as I can work from home. |
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| missmolly |
Bushpilot: "inspector13: "Cook County MN is now asking visitors and cabin owners to stay away due to limited health care infrastructure. It's become a point of contention here in Maine with the summer people from NYC and Boston coming early to escape the plague and many Mainers wanting them to stay away. I welcome them because they're taxpayers and fellow Americans, but I'm hoping they come with weeks of supplies so that they can self-quarantine for two weeks. |
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| missmolly |
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| sns |
My best friend is better (lingering cough), but just got the results this morning...CV+. Wife and 2 of his 3 kids (teens) all CV+ too, but all mostly recovered. He runs a manufacturing company; will be interesting to see if they close. Can't build industrial equipment on your couch. Really would like to press the fast-forward button right now. |
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| andym |
And as Garmin pointed out in an email to inreach accounts: Note: Please recreate responsibly and consider the pressure currently on the emergency and medical community as well as local quarantine mandates that may impact rescue teams. |
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| A1t2o |
That said, I have a trip planned for May and have no intention of canceling it. |
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| SinglePortage |
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| Blatz |
sns: "We have Shelter in Place in IL right now. What it means is Only essential business stay open. Grocery,Gas Stations, Hospitals, Garbage pick up ect ect., but it's also the business that support these essential places are open too. So packaging companies, shipping and Hardware Stores for example are open. Places like Clothing stores or furniture stores have to close. Parks are open so you can go out for a run, bike ride, or paddle. However facilities at the parks are closed like play grounds. So stay away from people, stay at home unless you work in an essential business. or going to buy food.SinglePortage: "They have effectively closed the AP, CDT and PCT hiking trails. If they feel the need to close 2-3,000 mile hiking trails I assume that they can close the Bdub too." |
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| JackpineJim |
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| Zulu |
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| fadersup |
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| martian |
We officially go into a 30 day stay at home directive now starting Tuesday in KC. Education moves online from home and fortunately work from there as well. I've never seen such a time. I also don't recall going through these lock down isolation protocols for H1N1 that killed so many. Crazy times. Stay Safe! |
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| Bushpilot |
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| Grandma L |
luft: "Grizzlyman: "So if they close it, and you go anyway. Who’s going to stop you?" Luft, You can self-quarantine in the tree house any time - no permit needed. I will be up there next week and put in the cot, mattress, table and all. No permit needed. Just call ahead so I turn on the power and water. That is, if they let you leave the city. |
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| missmolly |
Bushpilot: " In Minnesota's small tourist towns, there's trepidation over visitors Northern Minnesota, with limited hospital resources and an aging population, fears surge of vacationers. " There's the same fear in Maine, as my peninsula's population increase five-fold in the summer and the summer people are already arriving, fleeing NYC and Boston. |
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| Birdknowsbest |
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| CampSR |
Eyedocron: "Nothing to do with the current virus, but if you look at the original question, it had to do with going into the wilderness out of touch for a couple of weeks, and returning to a changed world. This happened to me. True, could come out to an apocalyptic world, zombies perhaps?? At which point I would just turn around and head right back in for the rest of my days. |
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| ForestDuff |
Got to Grand Marais and finally checked in with home and work email. Yikes.....our whole company of 5000 switched to work from home, and my wife's company was working on doing the same. Just amazing how quickly it has gone down. Was able to enjoy bars and restaurants on the way up and back, and only a few days later that's not possible. |
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| andym |
And it wasn’t just the beaches. We heard our report that one of parks with excellent hiking through the redwoods was more crowded than a local had ever seen it. A hiking area north of San Francisco had “unprecedented” use. It turned into a nice afternoon but we chose to exercise at home on our equipment and will head try our neighborhood trails only on weekdays. Of course, it is reasonable that people who live in more crowded areas to want to get outdoors. But right now it is creating problems. In places to the north those problems will be even worse when spring comes. I fear for Ely when fishing opener comes. At least our day visitors will go home and use their own hospitals. But those are the same hospitals we use too and 5e whole point of this is to not overload them. |
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| nofish |
Birdknowsbest: "I think one good thing to come of this, is how many people can really work from home. Hopefully businesses realize this as it would lead to a lot less people on the roads, less pollution and more people spending time with their families. " I was thinking about this as well but more from the business side. I know for my own company we started planning and prepping for everyone to work from home even before things got bad in Italy. In the last month or so we've made big strides in our technology and corporate mindset that should allow people more flexibility to work from home in the future and we'll be a better company because of it. Then I look at companies like where my sister works. Its a large well known company everyone here has heard of. They typically do not allow people to work from home. They resisted allowing people to work remotely even after schools were closed. Finally they gave people the option to work remotely but left it up the individual managers and many managers have not let their staff work remotely. They are putting people at risk because they refuse to adapt and modernize how their office functions. I think in the end they'll suffer because of it. Talking to my sister about the situation there it sounds like the company has burned any good will they had with many of their employees and many are now seeing that they aren't as valued as they thought. The rumblings she has heard while talking to people is that many may consider their options when this is all over so they may lose good employees because of their unwillingness to allow working from home. I think when this all blows over some companies will come out of it stronger and more agile while others really struggle to get with the times. |
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| AmarilloJim |
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| missmolly |
Thanks for the link. That's a powerful read. |
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| luft |
Grandma L: "luft: "Grizzlyman: "So if they close it, and you go anyway. Who’s going to stop you?" Awww! That is such a nice offer. I'd self quarantine in the Cuckoo's Nest any day. You forgot to add the port-a-potty and space heater though :-) |
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| cowdoc |
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| Bushpilot |
This is from a young lady from "up north", not my words. "Just to put it in perspective: Cook County has approximately 5,500 residents. 1/3 of them are 65 plus. Our clinic has six doctors and one Nurse Practitioner. Our hospital has sixteen beds, no ICU. Closest ICU is over a 100 miles away. Let that sink in. All it takes is ONE person in our small community to have COVID-19 and it will spread through our community like wildfire. We love that people love coming here. We all fully understand that we need the tourism for our business to survive. We also know that In order to have a beautiful place to come back to when this is over, we need the people to run and work those businesses. The residents of Cook County, in no way, shape or form, are trying to offend, disrespect, or “bite the hand that feeds them”. We are trying to protect our people so that everyone has a place to live in and come back to. We wish for everyone to be safe and healthy during this tough time. " |
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| LDB |
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| scotttimm |
Bushpilot: " In Minnesota's small tourist towns, there's trepidation over visitors Northern Minnesota, with limited hospital resources and an aging population, fears surge of vacationers. " Thank you for this article - it really lays out some of the issues and fears. Fear brings out the worst in us, as evidenced in the comments of the article. My parents are on the fence about heading up to their cabin north of Grand Rapids or staying home - sounds like they think staying home is better, as they are both in higher risk categories and want to be near good medical care. I'm hoping that in another six weeks maybe we are on the backside of this thing. I cannot imagine the impact it will have on the local economies if the BWCA is closed, and that must be a really tough reality to be facing up there as a small business owner. I have two permits - early June and late July - maybe I will be able to make one of them. If not - time to start exploring more locally! |
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| dentondoc |
scotttimm: "Was just reading this great article (below) about what it is like to disappear into the wilderness and reappear to a completely changed world. " Yeah. It was kind of that way when I came out of the woods on 9/16 after a two-week backpacking trip in the Ashley Wilderness, east of Salt Lake. Completely missed 9/11. It took a while to piece together what had happened on our drive back into Salt Lake. Strangely, the few people we did meet coming out of the woods, failed to mention the event ... I guess it was "old news" by then. Caught a plane back home to Dallas the next day ... the plane loaded with pilots that got stranded in Salt Lake with all of the plane groundings. A month after 9/11 I was on a plane again, headed to LaGuardia. I couldn't believe that they were flying an approach that went RIGHT OVER ground zero! I had intentionally made my hotel reservation for south Manhattan (China Town in fact) to get out of the hubbub of the Time Square area. After checking in, I discovered that access to the far south of Manhattan was prohibited south of Canal Street, which I was immediately adjacent to. However, that restriction was lifted in a day or two, so I made my way down to Ground Zero. Of course, the smell of the event could be easily detected all over southern Manhattan, but when I got to Ground Zero, the ruins were still smoldering and all of the surround area was covered with 4-6 inches of "dust." I'll never forget the smell nor the visual images of that trip. I do remember thinking at the time that this was like living an episode of "The Twilight Zone." dd |
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| inspector13 |
St Louis County has followed Cook County in asking visitors and cabin owners to stay away for now. DNT story |
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| Blatz |
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