Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: COVID crush effect
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MN_Lindsey |
schweady: "Our trip this past week was a short one, but yielded a far larger-than-usual number of newbie oddities sightings during our 4 days and 3 nights in the Moose/Nina Moose area. Off the top of my head: Bahahah! And people wonder why there is a bear problem at that EP! A Watermelon! That's hilarious. |
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mschi772 |
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mutz |
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NoService |
I mostly agree with the sentiment of the last few posts but find myself having little patience for negligence or incompetence. If people want to bring coolers, duffle bags, and their Sunday bests in and hog the portage, fine, it's not my business how you pack and I can be patient! But please follow the rules - there are not that many! And most are common sense. |
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marc24 |
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Portage99 |
The only thing I noticed was that most of the groups on the portages on my way out we’re wearing really nice shorts and T-shirts and tennis shoes. One group mentioned it was their first time. They seem like they would be respectful, but maybe not quite prepared for the conditions. I did see a lot of cut green stuff. But I did the last time I was up there too. I don’t know why people do this. |
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schweady |
mutz: "...but had the courtesy to ask you, if you needed help. " "Some kind of help is the kind of help That helping's all about. And some kind of help is the kind of help We all can do without." --- Shel Silverstein |
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mutz |
schweady: "mutz: "...but had the courtesy to ask you, if you needed help. " It’s not the kind of help, it’s the thought and offer that they may have been able to help. |
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merlyn |
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schweady |
mutz: "schweady: "mutz: "...but had the courtesy to ask you, if you needed help. " You weren't there. Give it up. We were still floating. Waiting. There was no "help" they could possibly provide at the time. The guy was probably wondering why I didn't just pick a spot, ram the shore, and jump out. These people offered the second kind of help, and were demonstrably incapable of the first. In hindsight, perhaps my response should have been, "Yeah, do you have a slice of watermelon handy?" |
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Zulu |
On my 10 day BWCA trip to Saganaga Lake everything and everyone looked typical. |
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billconner |
Article |
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TomT |
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treehorn |
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schwartyman |
Was quite annoyed but didn't feel like confronting them. Hoping I dont come across that again. |
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Jaywalker |
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thegildedgopher |
treehorn: "Do the actual permit numbers support the assertion of an increase in people in the BW? That article, and the article it links to, only reference anecdotal stories about 'outfitters reporting being busy.' I'd love to see permit numbers this year vs past years. Anyone know where a guy could look that up?" Curious as well. Last year Schweady did this helpful study. It'd be great to be able to compare that to this year's data en masse, but you could certainly pick a few key EP's and just compare the data from roughly this time last year to what you're seeing as "available" on rec.gov right now. |
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Frenchy19 |
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jillpine |
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mutz |
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scotttimm |
In our campsite, someone had taken a large dump in a hollowed out stump right in the nicest pad, and another dump with lots of toilette paper just outside of the main camp. There was a lot of trash in the thunderbox. On our way out, saw some abandoned/lost full sized camping chairs and a couple of cups loose on the portage. I chalked it up to Polly being a very well-used base-camping lake. |
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billconner |
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mjmkjun |
Forest Service needs to light a fire under those rangers. As in a substantial PAY RAISE. |
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straighthairedcurly |
While I have enjoyed the convenience of being able to print at home, and was diligent about rewatching the videos for the umpteenth time, I am guessing that a lot of people who are just borrowing a canoe and hauling in a cooler for a quick weekend away are brushing over the concepts or not watching at all. Too bad you don't have to pass an online quiz before being able to print your permit. I will be glad when things go back to normal. I was fortunate in that my route took me far from most crowds and popular entry points, but when I did get near then, I did pick up a lot more garbage and evidence of "axes gone crazy" than in the past. No watermelons, though...LOL. |
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thistlekicker |
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LindenTree |
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MN_Lindsey |
How does the Ely area equate? For example, Garrison on Mille Lacs has been SUPER quiet. Normally that is the bain of a Sunday coming home, or a Friday on the way up, but its been crickets around there. Drive right on through, no traffic. |
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nctry |
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missmolly |
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DeanL |
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corvidologist |
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NordSteve |
Format: Entry point: 2020 (2019) 45 Morgan Lake: 3 (2) 47 Lizz: 23 (15) 48 Meeds: 10 (4) 49 Skipper: 3 (3) 50 Cross Bay: 14 (13) 51 Missing Link: 14 (13) 52 Brant: 12 (7) 54 Seagull: 63 (34) 54A Seagull ONLY: 7 (2) |
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billconner |
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marsonite |
billconner: "Thanks for that. Seems to be more. Unknown is length of trips. Are the Coronavirus newbies staying as long as those that have come for years? No way to know I suspect." I wonder if there is an increase this summer of people going without permits as well. I can imagine some newbie deciding to go on a trip, finding out they can't get a permit, and deciding to go anyway, or overstay a day use permit. |
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schweady |
* 4 bigger guys in a SRQ18.5, piles of gear, third guy in line sitting on a pack, 2nd guy in line sitting atop the portage yoke pads * 2 guys who pulled up to our site and said that their 'map for this lake' blew away and did we know if there are any campsites nearby? * 2 guys with a blue barrel for their food strapped lengthwise atop the thwarts, occupying nearly the highest point in the canoe * family of 4 struggling to carry their canoes 2-man style and then going back for an uncountable number of duffle bags and assorted smaller day bags * many dragging canoes across the land at portage landings, some nearly fully loaded * LOTS and LOTS of folks moving through the lake at times during the day that you wonder why they couldn't have gotten up a little earlier, or where they think they're going to wind up before darkness set in * quite a few canoes we met on the river struggling to get untangled from encounters with branches along the banks * overheard many conversations out on the water that indicated a lack of understanding of where they were and how far it might be to the next lake * one couple who asked if we might possibly holler if we find a lost shoe at one of the beaver dams up ahead * 2 young couples putting in at a portage landing with one canoe in the only decent put-in spot and all of their stuff lined up the entire distance of the landing boardwalk over the deep mud, including the second canoe, a Target shopping bag, 2 Bear Vaults, assorted water bottles and shoes, fishing rods, and what-have you. Their first words to us as we waited a bit off-shore: "You guys need some help?" I wanted so badly to shout, "Yeah, get the f*** out of the way!" but I refrained. We did, however, finally land and push past them after realizing that the two guys had gone back to get more stuff. It was then that we heard one of the girls ask the other: "Do you still have the watermelon, or is it already in my canoe?" A WATERMELON... that's a first for me. |
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NordSteve |
Lots of EPs that were unpopular during this time last year are full. |
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analyzer |
The Canadian border is closed, so that basically adds 10% to the BWCA visitors alone, perhaps more. No WCPP, no wabakimbi (spelling), no banf (spelling) etc. Most, if not all, of youth summer sports were canceled. The end of July, beginning of August, is the normal window for families with kids that play sports to go to the bwca, this year, it's the entire summer. So there are a lot more big groups going. Many adult sports have been canceled too, so those who would normally be playing softball, or baseball, are looking for something to do. Not to mention the umpires have more free time too. Alternate forms of entertainment like the Twins have no fans, so people have canceled their season tickets, and looking for alternate forms of entertainment. College football is canceled this year, so there will be more people out camping and hunting on the weekends. Flights are way down. People are less interested in taking vacations to population centers like New York, San Fran, Vegas, etc because of covid fears, and the pain that much of their popular venues are in shutdown mode. Many canceled their trips to Paris, Rome, Greece etc. So they look for alternate vacation ideas. Weddings and graduations were canceled, so people who would otherwise have alternate commitments, now have none. And the big kicker, is lots of unemployment. Normally when you are unemployed, you are tight for cash, and have to be conservative, but with the extra $600 they were getting, they could still afford a trip to the bwca...... and as they are unemployed, they could stay much longer. Lets pretend for a moment, hypothetically, that everyone who entered on day 1, stayed all summer. And everyone who entered day 2 stayed all summer, and so forth. It wouldn't take long for all of the campsites to fill, even the ones which are deep in the bwca. Now obviously that's an exaggeration, but now when people finally have the opportunity to take that 10-14 day trip, instead of a 4-6 day trip, to a degree, it's going to increase the demand on campsites. Someone the other day mentioned a 27 day trip that they were on, and I just saw a post about a guy going for a month next month. Some of that is because of the unemployment, and lack of other commitments (that twins game or wedding, fell of the calendar) and subsequent opportunity to go on a longer trip. I'm seeing lots of people saying they are going on 8, 10, 14 day trips. On the surface, it seems like more than normal. My sister n law, has a couple 9 and 11 year old kids, that she counts the consecutive days she has been stuck with them (I think she probably knows that number in hours), since the covid shut down schools. Parents get to the point, they need to get the heck out of the house, and find some distraction. Almost all of us have gotten to the point, we don't want to hear/read about covid, riots, economy, etc, anymore. I think it's worse when you have antsy kids. Getting off the grid, sounds like a great idea. It's the perfect storm. And much of the above, is about people who would normally be way too busy to ever go to the BWCA, but they finally have an opportunity and are taking it. Yes, it's adding alot of newbies. I can only imagine what some of the drunk softball players I ump 4 nights a week, must behave like in the boundary waters; it makes me cringe. But I do think this will revert back to a little closer to "normal" in coming years, if society ever gets back to 'normal'. The boundary waters survived the logging days, it'll hopefully survive this too. |