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08/13/2020 10:45AM |
Many people subscribe to those bush craft channels and enjoy their content, and think that is what the outdoors is all about. Joe Robinet's channel has over a million subscribers, including me, with canoe camping being a large part of his content . He also has built several shelters exactly like that one only on his own property or not wilderness and tears them down later.
If youtubers like Joe , with so much influence , strongly pass on the message of LNT it will reach many, many people. YA hear that Joe?
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08/13/2020 11:22AM |
merlyn: "Click on "bush craft" and dozens of youtube channels will pop up. Most if not all will show making a "primitive shelter" just like that one. The show alone was a direct result of the interest people have in these videos. The sad part is someone took it to the BWCA instead of their own back yard.
Many people subscribe to those bush craft channels and enjoy their content, and think that is what the outdoors is all about. Joe Robinet's channel has over a million subscribers, including me, with canoe camping being a large part of his content . He also has built several shelters exactly like that one only on his own property or not wilderness and tears them down later.
If youtubers like Joe , with so much influence , strongly pass on the message of LNT it will reach many, many people. YA hear that Joe?
"
Maybe Joe should teach these folks how to rig a tarp, so it'll actually keep the rain off of you. The way it is tied onto that 'structure' the water would pool and it would leak all over the place. Wind-driven rain would be even worse. All that effort and destruction and you end up with a worse shelter then you could have made with just the rope and tarp... pathetic.
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08/13/2020 02:43PM |
What is the process involved to change the price of permits?
When was the last time there was a price change?
How long would the approval process take to increase the permit price?
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08/13/2020 04:32PM |
I posted these last year. This was the East island campsite on Meads. I was staying at the other island site and stopped to checkout this site when the occupants left. A new group took the site before I could dismantle it. I reported it to my outfitter.
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08/13/2020 12:14PM |
Pinetree: "It should be torn down now and if possible maybe burn the logs-is this at a designated campsite?"
It was on the east shore, just north of the center campsite. Well within walking distance of that campsite.
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08/12/2020 04:13PM |
missmolly: "user0317: "Gadfly: ".GeoFisher: "MikeinMpls: "I hope this thing is or will be torn down. It would be a nice stash of campfire wood, notwithstanding the unfortunate origin.
I wonder if this is intended to be someone's rustic winter deer camp or similar.
Something must be done about the clownery that has invaded BDub. At this point it's like a virus (irony noted) that likely won't kill the BDub but may make it very sick and take years to recover.
Mike "
Charge significantly MORE.......and take all that money and fund more rangers, and then TAKE OUT the effing TRASH.
I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.
MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.
Quite simple. "
Charging more for camping is racist just ask the LA Times "
Seemed like a mostly positive article about a group providing free camping equipment to people of color. I may have missed it, but I did not notice it saying that raising fees for camping is racist. "
That was my read too and I'm a damn good reader. "
I’m not as good of a reader as MissMolly, but I feel the same.
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08/12/2020 06:09PM |
nofish: "I wonder if there is any chance the Great American Outdoors Act will provide more money for enforcement efforts in the BWCA."
I hope so, time will tell. I think in the past royalties from oil and well drilling a certain percent was suppose to go to the various public land agencies. Much was diverted. But that is a different topic, so best to leave it right there for now.
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08/12/2020 06:33PM |
jdevries: "Unreal.
I'm guessing someone decided to do their best imitation of Alone. Go out with a small pack of gear, a tarp, some paracord, no food, and see how long they could last. I'm also guessing they cut down close to 100 trees in the effort.
JD"
Reported that a chainsaw was used... methinks not a very good imitation.
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08/12/2020 06:39AM |
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08/12/2020 07:13AM |
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08/12/2020 08:09AM |
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08/12/2020 05:29PM |
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08/12/2020 06:00PM |
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08/12/2020 06:53AM |
Now, he is only 15, but has been up to the BW twice, and while he doesn't like all the work involved, he does like going out into the area and everything that goes with it. He asked me if they caught anyone that did any of this. I explained the difficulty involved, and he said if he caught them, he would make them go out and clean things up. To cut it short, he was as angry about it as any old-timer is.
So there is hope for a younger generation, at least one of them. He knows enough at 15 to stash or hang your food pack, to keep a clean camp, to haul out your garbage and how to keep it as odor free as possible, to make sure the fire is out completely, and basically to respect the environment, and do the best he can to LNT. So while this time is bad, there is hope for the future.
BTW, he outfished me too. Maybe I taught him too well.
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08/12/2020 05:08PM |
nofish: "GeoFisher: "
I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.
MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.
Quite simple.
"
While I agree that permit costs are relatively inexpensive where are you finding a $9 permit that covers an entire group? In addition to the reservation fee which I believe is $6 there is a fee for each adult and each youth. I believe my permit for 2 adults and 2 kids was $54 if I remember correctly. Still not expensive in my mind as I paid it without really even thinking about the cost but a far cry from the $9 you stated.
You mentioned $5 per day or $100 for a permit. Is that $100 a flat fee regardless of how many are in the group?
A group of 4 adults is currently paying $70 for a permit or $17.50 per person. Does making it $100 or $25/person make much of a difference? If the $100 is a flat fee regardless of group size then once a group reaches 6 or more the $100 permit is actually cheaper than the current permit costs.
If you charge $5 per day per person it might make more sense but you lose money on small groups doing short weekend trips compared to current costs.
It would be nice to fund more enforcement but how much more would be needed? In reality the vast majority of bwca visitors largely follow the rules and don't have a huge negative impact. We're talking about a very small number of real idiots that trash sites and build garbage like this. You could double the enforcement budget and double enforcement patrols and you still may not get lucky to catch this kind of stuff as its happening. Thats the issue with enforcement here, you have to catch people in the act."
I must admit it has been a long time since I pulled a permit........LONG TIME, as I've been in Quetico. So, yea, it is 16 a person and 6 bucks to reserve it....MY bad. AT 16 a person that is about 100 bucks for my group of 6......
But lets use the quetico costs for my example. I go with 6 guys, and those permits are per day. We go for 10 days. So at 20 a day or whatever that permit cost is.....that is 20 x 10 x 6. THAT is a shit ton of money for the coffers to protect the area..something like 10x what the US collects.
I'm just saying, it is a cheap ass trip to go to the Boundary Waters........make it more.
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08/12/2020 09:50AM |
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08/12/2020 06:35PM |
People never cease to amaze me with their complete lack of regard for the wilderness. Our mainstream cultural values suck.
And...where do you go to get away from it, anymore? Seems like I am always running into stupidity. Some of my "secret" spots are being developed into these obnoxious, rich subdivisions way out in the middle of nowhere.....
People do suck sometimes.
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08/12/2020 07:05PM |
Portage99: "It looks like a blind to me, also.
People never cease to amaze me with their complete lack of regard for the wilderness. Our mainstream cultural values suck.
And...where do you go to get away from it, anymore? Seems like I am always running into stupidity. Some of my "secret" spots are being developed into these obnoxious, rich subdivisions way out in the middle of nowhere.....
People do suck sometimes."
Yep growing up I guess I thought all the wild areas or public land, yes throw in private land also would always be there like they were. Boy was I wrong and they are changing at a accelerated pace.
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08/12/2020 07:11PM |
I am glad my Dad did not see this new subdivision. It is really sad to see all these crazy big homes sprawling over the little wild land we have left in IL.....for what? I don't get it.
That is what bugs me-is the senselessness of it. No real point. Just random acts of destruction. I try to enjoy the windows of beauty as they come and not get too worked up.
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08/12/2020 07:21PM |
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08/12/2020 09:45AM |
Boundary Boy: "There are all kinds of YouTubers out there promoting this as woodcraft. "
Well, it is woodcraft, and it's not something I really have the knowledge to take on myself. But, of course they did it in the wrong place. Build these shelters and practice your bushcraft on private property, please. Cool construction, but not cool selection of where to do it.
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08/12/2020 10:51PM |
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08/12/2020 10:11AM |
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08/12/2020 10:59AM |
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08/12/2020 09:46PM |
WI Paddler: "It almost looks like a makeshift hunting blind?"
It would be the worst “blind” ever... the only real opening faces The water, with no clear shot of anything. It’s 25 to 30 feet up on a rock outcropping.
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08/12/2020 10:47PM |
Snipit: "WI Paddler: "It almost looks like a makeshift hunting blind?"
It would be the worst “blind” ever... the only real opening faces The water, with no clear shot of anything. It’s 25 to 30 feet up on a rock outcropping."
agree that is not a blind
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08/14/2020 04:49PM |
I think they also need to change the permit system to include the name of every camper on the permit, at least for novices. That would make it easier to track these folks down after they've logged half of the forest to make a stupid lean-to.
That shack is soon to be history, per the FS.
To me, "bushcraft" practitioners seem mostly to be younger, city people who can't change a tire, but learn one simple outdoor-related task (fire making, etc.) grow a long "man"-beard and are suddenly experts who want the world to see how adept they are at surviving in the woods. Came across some of them last weekend (not in the BW): every guy had some kind of huge bowie knife strapped to his belt, yet they were setting up torn tents held together with duct tape in the face of an impending thunderstorm and had one can of bug spray for 8 people. Of course, they had plenty of liquor and coolers full of beer. I'm sure there are some of these types who know what they're doing, but I don't see many.
That could be because - in my experience - people who truly love and appreciate the outdoors and are at home there don't have time to blow their own horns on youtube or social media. They're busy spending that time outdoors somewhere, on a trail or at a campsite, because that's where they're happiest.
Thankfully, it's likely a fad that'll pass. Probably when the virus is gone and there are other things to do.
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08/14/2020 07:03PM |
CityFisher74: "This pisses me off to no end. To make it worse, I'm afraid there is a 100% chance the inspiration came from one of my favorite shows, Alone."
I’ve been seeing a LOT of bad bushcraft crap out in the woods this year. Knuckleheads.
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08/15/2020 06:11PM |
Zwater: "Yes, completly wrong what they constructed!
Is everyone on this site "judge, jury and executioner?"
Everyone commenting seems "Holier than thou"
Just my opinion."
Executioner ?
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08/12/2020 11:06AM |
tumblehome: "If people on the forum as so upset with this, then take action and stop complaining. People drive the regulations of the bwca.
Your political leaders pass the laws and allocate funding for enforcement.
Call, write, speak up. Complaimg to each other is like complaining to a brick wall.
Tom"
The regulation is already there. Been there for decades. Enforcement may be lacking because a shift where USFS are going. Staff in Superior is much smaller than the past.
The ultimate is peer pressure to correct this.
I would like to know what percent have permits going in this year? That would be simple check at parking lots-license plates etc.
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08/12/2020 11:15AM |
MikeinMpls: "I hope this thing is or will be torn down. It would be a nice stash of campfire wood, notwithstanding the unfortunate origin.
I wonder if this is intended to be someone's rustic winter deer camp or similar.
Something must be done about the clownery that has invaded BDub. At this point it's like a virus (irony noted) that likely won't kill the BDub but may make it very sick and take years to recover.
Mike "
Charge significantly MORE.......and take all that money and fund more rangers, and then TAKE OUT the effing TRASH.
I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.
MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.
Quite simple.
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08/12/2020 11:21AM |
LindenTree: "Probably be a good idea if they leave it up for a while, stick some surveillance cameras around and try to catch them coming back. Conservations Officers have uncanny ability's at discovering who the perpetrators are with way less evidence than what these people left behind."
Oh Man, that is a GREAT idea. They could be disguised quite well.......boom, serious charges for destruction of federal property....Maybe :)
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08/12/2020 11:30AM |
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08/12/2020 11:19AM |
Jackfish: "nctry: "I’m guessing at some point the rules will change to allow stuff like that to cater to the younger crowd. "
Good grief, Ben... is that a serious statement? I sure hope not."
I absolutely believe it is a serious statement.........usage is up crazy right now, but significantly down over the past 20 years...and with those low numbers, also goes all the money and "support" for the area. In another 20 years, it could easily be removed from "wilderness" and developed, because there is very little interest in the area.
I'm serious as a heart attack.........happens all the time.
I sure hope not, but who knows.
Later,
Geo
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08/12/2020 12:01PM |
missmolly: "Snipit, weren't cha tempted to tip it? I might have. "
We were GREATLY tempted to destroy it... a couple things that swayed us. First, every campsite around was occupied, and we were not sure the perpetrator wasn't still on site, and would be quite angry at us. Second, that sucker was very will constructed, it's gonna be quite the task to remove.
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08/12/2020 12:10PM |
Pinetree: "Snipit
When were your pictures taken? I see the pine boughs look fresh.
"
It was last week, I think either tuesday, or wednesday.
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08/14/2020 08:43AM |
That said, after our recent trip, I, too, am so disgusted with what we saw. Not that it's new (trees with axe damage, cut down green trees, litter, foil in the fire grate, etc.), just more of it. I'm not very pro-regs, but maybe it's time to say that we've blown it, and some privileges get taken away. Like: no axes, maybe even no saws, or no fires.... and certainly, we need more of an educational/accountability mechanism than allowing people to just watch the video at home. Even in light of COVID, there are ways to assure that the educational video was viewed.
Compulsory education will/may help the BW neophytes, but then there are those that are simply non-compliant, another story.
In addition to tree damage, we found a full/large sized, falling apart, cooler on Heritage Lake two weeks ago. Maybe for peoples' 1st couple trips into the BW, they ought to be mandated to pass a test, including a shake down of gear? Got me, but whoever said it is right, more must be done to protect this area we all cherish!
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08/12/2020 12:33PM |
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08/12/2020 05:23PM |
GeoFisher:
"
Charge significantly MORE.......and take all that money and fund more rangers, and then TAKE OUT the effing TRASH.
I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.
MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.
Quite simple.
"
Geo,
I agree that the fees should go up, but you are way off on your numbers. I just took a group of 6 onto the Lady Chain and the permit had a $6 online fee, a $16 per person fee (plus my $8 Sr Citizens fee) for a total of $94. It's always important to get your facts straight before you make a claim of impropriety.
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08/12/2020 12:43PM |
Snipit: "Pinetree: "Snipit
When were your pictures taken? I see the pine boughs look fresh.
"
It was last week, I think either tuesday, or wednesday."
Wow-you think someone would of seen them or at least Forest service could get it down to a couple of parties if they had a permit?
Its someone I think just thinks he can do what they want, disregarding how it affects others or the land. These type people have been around before like earlier posts on East Pike a few years ago and I have seen like on Carol lake next to Alice about 10 years ago, like 30 beer cans spread around a campfire and other things thrown around on purpose. Some have a mentality people on this board can't fathom. I can't.
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08/12/2020 12:36PM |
GeoFisher: "
I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.
MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.
Quite simple.
"
While I agree that permit costs are relatively inexpensive where are you finding a $9 permit that covers an entire group? In addition to the reservation fee which I believe is $6 there is a fee for each adult and each youth. I believe my permit for 2 adults and 2 kids was $54 if I remember correctly. Still not expensive in my mind as I paid it without really even thinking about the cost but a far cry from the $9 you stated.
You mentioned $5 per day or $100 for a permit. Is that $100 a flat fee regardless of how many are in the group?
A group of 4 adults is currently paying $70 for a permit or $17.50 per person. Does making it $100 or $25/person make much of a difference? If the $100 is a flat fee regardless of group size then once a group reaches 6 or more the $100 permit is actually cheaper than the current permit costs.
If you charge $5 per day per person it might make more sense but you lose money on small groups doing short weekend trips compared to current costs.
It would be nice to fund more enforcement but how much more would be needed? In reality the vast majority of bwca visitors largely follow the rules and don't have a huge negative impact. We're talking about a very small number of real idiots that trash sites and build garbage like this. You could double the enforcement budget and double enforcement patrols and you still may not get lucky to catch this kind of stuff as its happening. Thats the issue with enforcement here, you have to catch people in the act.
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08/12/2020 01:53PM |
I'm guessing someone decided to do their best imitation of Alone. Go out with a small pack of gear, a tarp, some paracord, no food, and see how long they could last. I'm also guessing they cut down close to 100 trees in the effort.
JD
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08/12/2020 01:33PM |
treehorn: "Boundary Boy: "There are all kinds of YouTubers out there promoting this as woodcraft. "
Well, it is woodcraft, and it's not something I really have the knowledge to take on myself. But, of course they did it in the wrong place. Build these shelters and practice your bushcraft on private property, please. Cool construction, but not cool selection of where to do it."
I agree it's not the place to practice wood craft/bush craft.
I was only pointing out that a lot of YouTubers have videos showing how to build structures using your surroundings. Some of those YouTubers are ex-contestants on TV series Alone. I follow many of those YouTubers and Alone.I have noticed that more and more people are practicing this on public lands.
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08/13/2020 09:03AM |
Plus what would they be hunting at such a location and at this time of year.
Seems like a lot of work for a temporary shelter most likely a couple of people trying out their "wood skills".
As far as the trees they well grow back. That's what trees do.
Far more trees are destroyed in one fire and they grow back.
Should it have been done and should have it happen No.
But in all reality it doesn't affect the whole scheme of things if left alone it will rot into the ground and be a pile of nothing.
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08/13/2020 08:34AM |
OneMatch: "GeoFisher:
"
I agree with you about charging more. Not only might that deter some of the irresponsible asshats who are doing damage but it could help fund other areas. I am an alumni of a scout troop in Minneapolis. The troop "owns" (The sponsoring institution owns it) camp property in Wisconsin. Each spring a small alumni group I'm part of goes up to the camp for an extended weekend. We pay $50 per night! Yeah...it is a little pricey but we know that money goes into back into the wooded camp we all love. Point is, I think those of us who truly love the BWCAW would be willing to pay more to use it.
Charge significantly MORE.......and take all that money and fund more rangers, and then TAKE OUT the effing TRASH.
I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.
MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.
Quite simple.
"
Geo,
I agree that the fees should go up, but you are way off on your numbers. I just took a group of 6 onto the Lady Chain and the permit had a $6 online fee, a $16 per person fee (plus my $8 Sr Citizens fee) for a total of $94. It's always important to get your facts straight before you make a claim of impropriety."
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08/13/2020 08:48AM |
scat: "After seeing that, I wish I was blind. Whatever happened to plumb, level and square."
You are a witty man, scat!
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08/13/2020 09:18AM |
acanoer: "Not a hunting blind for sure I built dozens and seen many more dozens none ever looked like that.
Plus what would they be hunting at such a location and at this time of year.
Seems like a lot of work for a temporary shelter most likely a couple of people trying out their "wood skills".
As far as the trees they well grow back. That's what trees do.
Far more trees are destroyed in one fire and they grow back.
Should it have been done and should have it happen No.
But in all reality it doesn't affect the whole scheme of things if left alone it will rot into the ground and be a pile of nothing.
"
The issue with things like this is that it takes a long time for the forest to regrow these trees that were cut down and it takes a long time for a structure like that to fall apart and rot to the point its no longer an eye sore. A day or 2 of fun for this group will take years for the forest to reclaim.
The other issue is this is one single instance. If this becomes common and we see these at every other campsite now you've got a big issue.
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08/13/2020 09:36AM |
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08/13/2020 02:55PM |
airmorse: "Who sets the price for permits?
What is the process involved to change the price of permits?
When was the last time there was a price change?
How long would the approval process take to increase the permit price?
"
You're also missing the question of how do you ensure increased fees go to enforcement or education in order to prevent damage from being done to the BWCA by visitors?
Increasing fees is one thing but if the extra revenue is funneled elsewhere it doesn't do anything but drain our wallets a bit more every year.
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08/13/2020 02:41PM |
As far as the youtubers, I think they could make it clear where they are and what the rules are. What a Canadian citizen is allowed to do on Crown land in Canada is different than what they can do at a provincial park. What a US citizen can do on national forest land is different than the rules for the bwca. The videos don't have to give away gps coordinates but they could make it clear if they are on private land, national forest, provincial park or a designated wilderness.
Someone specifically mentioned Joe Robinet. In his latest video he does show how to hang up a tarp to keep the rain off. He also uses a dead and down tree to build a camp fire. AFAIK, Joe follows the rules for the land he is on.
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08/13/2020 05:14PM |
acanoer: "Not a hunting blind for sure I built dozens and seen many more dozens none ever looked like that.
Plus what would they be hunting at such a location and at this time of year.
Seems like a lot of work for a temporary shelter most likely a couple of people trying out their "wood skills".
As far as the trees they well grow back. That's what trees do.
Far more trees are destroyed in one fire and they grow back.
Should it have been done and should have it happen No.
But in all reality it doesn't affect the whole scheme of things if left alone it will rot into the ground and be a pile of nothing.
"
Not if multiplied by X number. Some individuals seem to think they're the only one visiting the site doing things like this, but what if 10 people did this...50 people...100 people...did this in the BWCA.
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08/14/2020 07:48AM |
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08/11/2020 02:34PM |
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08/11/2020 05:53PM |
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08/11/2020 12:16PM |
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08/11/2020 01:42PM |
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08/11/2020 02:19PM |
CityFisher74: "This pisses me off to no end. To make it worse, I'm afraid there is a 100% chance the inspiration came from one of my favorite shows, Alone."
I had the same thought. Sigh.
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08/11/2020 12:27PM |
some people just dont get it and never will :(
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08/11/2020 12:41PM |
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08/11/2020 01:13PM |
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08/11/2020 01:33PM |
I wonder if this is intended to be someone's rustic winter deer camp or similar.
Something must be done about the clownery that has invaded BDub. At this point it's like a virus (irony noted) that likely won't kill the BDub but may make it very sick and take years to recover.
Mike
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08/11/2020 02:12PM |
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08/11/2020 02:00PM |
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08/11/2020 02:52PM |
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08/11/2020 03:58PM |
nctry: "I’m guessing at some point the rules will change to allow stuff like that to cater to the younger crowd. "
Good grief, Ben... is that a serious statement? I sure hope not.
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08/11/2020 05:50PM |
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08/11/2020 05:55PM |
cyclones30: "Unless there's minor "ding" marks where a saw nicked a stump or log, how would you know if it was chainsaw cut?
"
The size and amount of wood chips left at the cutting site are the signs between them being cut with a hand saw or chainsaw.
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08/11/2020 03:09PM |
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08/11/2020 03:27PM |
Pure guess but why else? Also I agree they look like they were cut with a chain saw and ANYONE would have heard that during the summer trip times, right?
Beyond that, (and with no excuse even if it is a blind) why......why ......why ......why do such damage??????? 2020 certainly has been the year for strange things!!
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08/11/2020 04:26PM |
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08/11/2020 04:56PM |
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08/11/2020 05:59PM |
cyclones30: "Unless there's minor "ding" marks where a saw nicked a stump or log, how would you know if it was chainsaw cut?
I figured it was a group of kids with hand saws that were bored for a few days. That doesn't make it any better...."
The shavings would be little square chips vs. dust.
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08/11/2020 06:05PM |
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08/11/2020 05:39PM |
I figured it was a group of kids with hand saws that were bored for a few days. That doesn't make it any better....
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08/11/2020 09:40PM |
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08/11/2020 09:05PM |
CityFisher74: "This pisses me off to no end. To make it worse, I'm afraid there is a 100% chance the inspiration came from one of my favorite shows, Alone."
Agreed. This shelter looks exactly like a lot of the shelters on Alone.
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08/12/2020 09:57AM |
When were your pictures taken? I see the pine boughs look fresh.
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08/12/2020 09:58AM |
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08/12/2020 11:01AM |
Your political leaders pass the laws and allocate funding for enforcement.
Call, write, speak up. Complaimg to each other is like complaining to a brick wall.
Tom
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08/15/2020 06:21PM |
shock: "Zwater: "Yes, completly wrong what they constructed!
Is everyone on this site "judge, jury and executioner?"
Everyone commenting seems "Holier than thou"
Just my opinion."
Executioner ? "
We generally don’t take things that far on BWCA.com.
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08/16/2020 12:34PM |
Portage99: "shock: "Zwater: "Yes, completly wrong what they constructed!
Is everyone on this site "judge, jury and executioner?"
Everyone commenting seems "Holier than thou"
Just my opinion."
Executioner ? "
We generally don’t take things that far on BWCA.com."
Really? Have you read through all the comments on this thread and others?
Again, I don’t condone anything they did.
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08/16/2020 01:32PM |
Zwater: "Portage99: "shock: "Zwater: "Yes, completly wrong what they constructed!
Is everyone on this site "judge, jury and executioner?"
Everyone commenting seems "Holier than thou"
Just my opinion."
Executioner ? "
We generally don’t take things that far on BWCA.com."
Really? Have you read through all the comments on this thread and others?
Again, I don’t condone anything they did."
I was joking that we usually don’t execute people. Haha
I guess it’s a values thing. I do judge people that do this. It makes me crazy.
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11/29/2020 05:22PM |
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11/29/2020 09:20AM |
• Some folks don’t belong in the outdoors. With many amusement options across the country closed this year quite a few people tried alternate forms of entertainment. A small percentage of them made it clear to outdoor communities and providers that their business doesn’t offset the damage and disrespect they perpetrate. To the vast majority of Wyoming’s visitors, we can’t thank you enough!
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11/29/2020 05:05PM |
Jackfish: "nctry: "I’m guessing at some point the rules will change to allow stuff like that to cater to the younger crowd. "
Good grief, Ben... is that a serious statement? I sure hope not."
Nothing surprises me anymore Pete! Just disgusted with the way I see things going.
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11/29/2020 05:43PM |
Northwoodsman: "cyclones30: "Unless there's minor "ding" marks where a saw nicked a stump or log, how would you know if it was chainsaw cut?
I figured it was a group of kids with hand saws that were bored for a few days. That doesn't make it any better...."
The shavings would be little square chips vs. dust."
That depends on chain sharpness. I’ve always got a kick outta a friend of my bil. His sharp chains are where I quit cutting and sharpen. I finally sharpened his chains for him. It drove me nuts!
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11/29/2020 04:57PM |
I agree that increased presence by USFS personnel would be one of the best things, something most of us seem to agree on. A BWCA trip is a fairly affordable thing by itself, not counting prices for purchase of equipment or rental fees, which can be substantial. Unfortunately in this day and age increasing fees substantially would not be politically correct or fair to those that find the cost of a trip a hardship. And we want them to go and fall in love with it as we have.
i would propose leaving fees the same, or increasing marginally, but implementing an option for an additional donation by permit purchasers with the caveat that the money goes specifically to increasing enforcement staff and budget in the BWCA. Don't know if such a thing could be set up but I know I would be willing to tack on some $ for the LNT cause. Are we willing to put our money where our mouth is?
Honestly, it's not fair to blame newbies, or city folks unless you have evidence to support that. It may be the case, especially for first time visitors who might not understand the need to protect and preserve and the impact they are making. As far as it being city folks, well it could be but I am pretty sure most of you country bumpkins have internet access these days too and can follow the bushwhack/woodcraft sites just as well as we can. I have lived in the "city" all of my life and have 45 trips to the Q and BW under my belt. My wilderness camping and LNT skills are quite good, don't have a man beard, know how to change a tire, and there's not a single piece of duct tape on my tent:)
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08/12/2020 02:02PM |
GeoFisher: "MikeinMpls: "I hope this thing is or will be torn down. It would be a nice stash of campfire wood, notwithstanding the unfortunate origin.
I wonder if this is intended to be someone's rustic winter deer camp or similar.
Something must be done about the clownery that has invaded BDub. At this point it's like a virus (irony noted) that likely won't kill the BDub but may make it very sick and take years to recover.
Mike "
Charge significantly MORE.......and take all that money and fund more rangers, and then TAKE OUT the effing TRASH.
I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.
MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.
Quite simple.
"
Charging more for camping is racist just ask the LA Times
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08/12/2020 02:20PM |
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08/12/2020 04:17PM |
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08/12/2020 02:53PM |
Gadfly: "GeoFisher: "MikeinMpls: "I hope this thing is or will be torn down. It would be a nice stash of campfire wood, notwithstanding the unfortunate origin.
I wonder if this is intended to be someone's rustic winter deer camp or similar.
Something must be done about the clownery that has invaded BDub. At this point it's like a virus (irony noted) that likely won't kill the BDub but may make it very sick and take years to recover.
Mike "
Charge significantly MORE.......and take all that money and fund more rangers, and then TAKE OUT the effing TRASH.
I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.
MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.
Quite simple.
"
Charging more for camping is racist just ask the LA Times "
Seemed like a mostly positive article about a group providing free camping equipment to people of color. I may have missed it, but I did not notice it saying that raising fees for camping is racist.
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08/12/2020 03:22PM |
user0317: "Gadfly: "GeoFisher: "MikeinMpls: "I hope this thing is or will be torn down. It would be a nice stash of campfire wood, notwithstanding the unfortunate origin.
I wonder if this is intended to be someone's rustic winter deer camp or similar.
Something must be done about the clownery that has invaded BDub. At this point it's like a virus (irony noted) that likely won't kill the BDub but may make it very sick and take years to recover.
Mike "
Charge significantly MORE.......and take all that money and fund more rangers, and then TAKE OUT the effing TRASH.
I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.
MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.
Quite simple.
"
Charging more for camping is racist just ask the LA Times "
Seemed like a mostly positive article about a group providing free camping equipment to people of color. I may have missed it, but I did not notice it saying that raising fees for camping is racist. "
That was my read too and I'm a damn good reader.
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08/14/2020 09:11PM |
Is everyone on this site "judge, jury and executioner?"
Everyone commenting seems "Holier than thou"
Just my opinion.
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08/14/2020 09:36PM |
Portage99: "acanoer: "Not a hunting blind for sure I built dozens and seen many more dozens none ever looked like that.
Plus what would they be hunting at such a location and at this time of year.
Seems like a lot of work for a temporary shelter most likely a couple of people trying out their "wood skills".
As far as the trees they well grow back. That's what trees do.
Far more trees are destroyed in one fire and they grow back.
Should it have been done and should have it happen No.
But in all reality it doesn't affect the whole scheme of things if left alone it will rot into the ground and be a pile of nothing. "
Not if multiplied by X number. Some individuals seem to think they're the only one visiting the site doing things like this, but what if 10 people did this...50 people...100 people...did this in the BWCA. "
99, exactly! Like if only 1 person washed a few dishes in the lake... no big deal. But two hundred and fifty thousand people did it, yikes. Same goes for the bushcraft bs. Sorry bs might be a little harsh... how bout eldorado poo poo! A lot of the rules might seem stricter then needed, but considering the number of people out there, without them the place would be totally ruined by now!