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      In 25 years, I've NEVER seen anything like this in the BWCA     
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Snipit
distinguished member (361)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 12:16PM
We found this on lynx lake last week.... once we got out, we contacted the forest service, They said they were well aware of this monstrosity and were currently attempting to formulate a plan for it's removal.



 
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shock
distinguished member(3862)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 12:27PM
i seen these pics on another post recently , unbelievable the amount of time they spent building these and i guess they planned to stay awhile or come back , and i dont think they've ever saw the video , i know TB has come across some make shift camps , in the BW.
some people just dont get it and never will :(
 
Snipit
distinguished member (361)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 12:41PM
It was right on the edge of the lake, on top of an overlook. They cut down an unbelievable amount of trees to do this. The trees appeared to have been cut down with a chainsaw.
 
shawhh
distinguished member (218)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 01:13PM
Liable to see more such stupidity. The proliferation of bushcraft videos encourage this kind of abuse by people who don't see the difference between private and public lands. Want to make a semi-permanent or permanent camp on your land, go right ahead, but don't do it on public lands. Need more LNT education by the folks who lead the bushcraft movement. JMHO.
 
MikeinMpls
distinguished member(674)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 01:33PM
I hope this thing is or will be torn down. It would be a nice stash of campfire wood, notwithstanding the unfortunate origin.

I wonder if this is intended to be someone's rustic winter deer camp or similar.

Something must be done about the clownery that has invaded BDub. At this point it's like a virus (irony noted) that likely won't kill the BDub but may make it very sick and take years to recover.

Mike
 
CityFisher74
distinguished member (482)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 01:42PM
This pisses me off to no end. To make it worse, I'm afraid there is a 100% chance the inspiration came from one of my favorite shows, Alone.
 
TuscaroraBorealis
distinguished member(4662)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/11/2020 02:00PM
Unfortunately, this is not a new phenomenon; I seen a similar structure on Disappointment Lake about a dozen years ago. As Shock mentioned, I've run across several others over the years as well. My guess is that most of them are constructed during the winter months when there are far fewer curious eyes around or passing through.

 
Duckman
distinguished member (404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 02:12PM
I was debating on sneaking in a trip in the next month, but it just looks more and more like I should wait until October.
 
scotttimm
distinguished member (385)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 02:19PM
CityFisher74: "This pisses me off to no end. To make it worse, I'm afraid there is a 100% chance the inspiration came from one of my favorite shows, Alone."

I had the same thought. Sigh.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(6919)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/11/2020 02:34PM
Why would anyone want to stay in that versus a cozy, dry, bug-proof tent?
 
airmorse
distinguished member(2695)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 02:52PM
All those trees. Those "people" are IDIOTS!!!
 
08/11/2020 03:09PM
I once met a guy that gave a hoot out there... seems more and more they don’t! I’m guessing at some point the rules will change to allow stuff like that to cater to the younger crowd.
 
Mo63021
member (19)member
 
08/11/2020 03:27PM
We were on Lynx Lake in June,,,of course NEVER would have gone looking for such a thing!! I am not a hunter, but does this look like a "hunting blind" of some sort? I am looking at the one side with an opening at about the height of a mans shoulders???? Did this opening look out over the lake?

Pure guess but why else? Also I agree they look like they were cut with a chain saw and ANYONE would have heard that during the summer trip times, right?

Beyond that, (and with no excuse even if it is a blind) why......why ......why ......why do such damage??????? 2020 certainly has been the year for strange things!!
 
Jackfish
Moderator
 
08/11/2020 03:58PM
nctry: "I’m guessing at some point the rules will change to allow stuff like that to cater to the younger crowd. "
Good grief, Ben... is that a serious statement? I sure hope not.
 
LindenTree
distinguished member(2555)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 04:26PM
Probably be a good idea if they leave it up for a while, stick some surveillance cameras around and try to catch them coming back. Conservations Officers have uncanny ability's at discovering who the perpetrators are with way less evidence than what these people left behind.
 
Northwoodsman
distinguished member(1482)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 04:56PM
Was it at a designated campsite or someplace else? They couldn't have known the rules because I would believe that even the stupidest person would know that the sound of a chainsaw can carry for a mile and someone paddling in the area is going to go on the hunt to find out what's going on. By building it near the water assures that someone paddling through is going to bust you. Building it in the winter does makes sense because their is a good chance that nobody else would be around. Fines and punishments need to be increased, the old slap on the hand doesn't work today. It needs to hurt.
 
cyclones30
distinguished member(2541)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 05:39PM
Unless there's minor "ding" marks where a saw nicked a stump or log, how would you know if it was chainsaw cut?

I figured it was a group of kids with hand saws that were bored for a few days. That doesn't make it any better....
 
Podunk
distinguished member (147)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 05:50PM
Guessing that there is still green in the boughs it was fairly recent.
 
Podunk
distinguished member (147)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 05:53PM
Still disgusting though
 
LindenTree
distinguished member(2555)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 05:55PM
cyclones30: "Unless there's minor "ding" marks where a saw nicked a stump or log, how would you know if it was chainsaw cut?
"


The size and amount of wood chips left at the cutting site are the signs between them being cut with a hand saw or chainsaw.
 
Northwoodsman
distinguished member(1482)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 05:59PM
cyclones30: "Unless there's minor "ding" marks where a saw nicked a stump or log, how would you know if it was chainsaw cut?


I figured it was a group of kids with hand saws that were bored for a few days. That doesn't make it any better...."

The shavings would be little square chips vs. dust.
 
airmorse
distinguished member(2695)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 06:05PM
They make battery operate chainsaws now. That would greatly reduce the noise to almost nothing.

 
MichiganMan
senior member (80)senior membersenior member
 
08/11/2020 09:05PM
CityFisher74: "This pisses me off to no end. To make it worse, I'm afraid there is a 100% chance the inspiration came from one of my favorite shows, Alone."

Agreed. This shelter looks exactly like a lot of the shelters on Alone.
 
Snipit
distinguished member (361)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/11/2020 09:40PM
It was on the East shore just north of the middle campsite. It was facing the water, and no way any type of hunting blind. The campsite on the west shore near the portage to Heritage also had trees cut down with obvious chainsaw chips left on the ground all around. I can’t imagine this “shelter” was more than a few weeks old.
 
Boundary Boy
distinguished member (165)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 06:39AM
There are all kinds of YouTubers out there promoting this as woodcraft.
 
Bearpath9
distinguished member (217)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 06:53AM
My grandson and I were out fishing yesterday and we were talking about next summer's trip, where we wanted to go, that sort of thing. I mentioned to him all of the idiocy that has been taking place, and since it was slow, he got on his phone and we looked at some of the pictures on this and other threads. He couldn't believe it. He asked me why people did what they did. I told him some just didn't know any better, some knew better, but were just too lazy to do the right thing, and some just didn't give a damn.

Now, he is only 15, but has been up to the BW twice, and while he doesn't like all the work involved, he does like going out into the area and everything that goes with it. He asked me if they caught anyone that did any of this. I explained the difficulty involved, and he said if he caught them, he would make them go out and clean things up. To cut it short, he was as angry about it as any old-timer is.

So there is hope for a younger generation, at least one of them. He knows enough at 15 to stash or hang your food pack, to keep a clean camp, to haul out your garbage and how to keep it as odor free as possible, to make sure the fire is out completely, and basically to respect the environment, and do the best he can to LNT. So while this time is bad, there is hope for the future.

BTW, he outfished me too. Maybe I taught him too well.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(6919)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/12/2020 07:13AM
Thank you, Bearpath9, for the part you played in raising such a fine young man.
 
scat
distinguished member(892)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 08:09AM
Maybe someone was naked and became afraid. That’s amateur hour stuff.
 
treehorn
distinguished member(539)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 09:45AM
Boundary Boy: "There are all kinds of YouTubers out there promoting this as woodcraft. "

Well, it is woodcraft, and it's not something I really have the knowledge to take on myself. But, of course they did it in the wrong place. Build these shelters and practice your bushcraft on private property, please. Cool construction, but not cool selection of where to do it.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(6919)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/12/2020 09:50AM
Snipit, weren't cha tempted to tip it? I might have.
 
Pinetree
distinguished member(12725)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
08/12/2020 09:57AM
Snipit
When were your pictures taken? I see the pine boughs look fresh.
 
nofish
distinguished member(2764)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 09:58AM
They someone on the show Alone would have built this shelter they'd have tapped out the first week.
 
08/12/2020 10:11AM
WTF... like, truly, WTF!?!?!
 
Savage Voyageur
distinguished member(13338)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
08/12/2020 10:59AM
Dang this is really sad to see. People are the biggest threat to this area.
 
tumblehome
distinguished member(1708)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 11:01AM
If people on the forum as so upset with this, then take action and stop complaining. People drive the regulations of the bwca.
Your political leaders pass the laws and allocate funding for enforcement.

Call, write, speak up. Complaimg to each other is like complaining to a brick wall.
Tom
 
Pinetree
distinguished member(12725)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
08/12/2020 11:06AM
tumblehome: "If people on the forum as so upset with this, then take action and stop complaining. People drive the regulations of the bwca.
Your political leaders pass the laws and allocate funding for enforcement.


Call, write, speak up. Complaimg to each other is like complaining to a brick wall.
Tom"


The regulation is already there. Been there for decades. Enforcement may be lacking because a shift where USFS are going. Staff in Superior is much smaller than the past.
The ultimate is peer pressure to correct this.

I would like to know what percent have permits going in this year? That would be simple check at parking lots-license plates etc.
 
GeoFisher
distinguished member(1538)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 11:15AM
MikeinMpls: "I hope this thing is or will be torn down. It would be a nice stash of campfire wood, notwithstanding the unfortunate origin.


I wonder if this is intended to be someone's rustic winter deer camp or similar.


Something must be done about the clownery that has invaded BDub. At this point it's like a virus (irony noted) that likely won't kill the BDub but may make it very sick and take years to recover.


Mike "


Charge significantly MORE.......and take all that money and fund more rangers, and then TAKE OUT the effing TRASH.

I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.

MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.


Quite simple.
 
GeoFisher
distinguished member(1538)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 11:19AM
Jackfish: "nctry: "I’m guessing at some point the rules will change to allow stuff like that to cater to the younger crowd. "
Good grief, Ben... is that a serious statement? I sure hope not."


I absolutely believe it is a serious statement.........usage is up crazy right now, but significantly down over the past 20 years...and with those low numbers, also goes all the money and "support" for the area. In another 20 years, it could easily be removed from "wilderness" and developed, because there is very little interest in the area.

I'm serious as a heart attack.........happens all the time.
I sure hope not, but who knows.

Later,
Geo
 
GeoFisher
distinguished member(1538)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 11:21AM
LindenTree: "Probably be a good idea if they leave it up for a while, stick some surveillance cameras around and try to catch them coming back. Conservations Officers have uncanny ability's at discovering who the perpetrators are with way less evidence than what these people left behind."

Oh Man, that is a GREAT idea. They could be disguised quite well.......boom, serious charges for destruction of federal property....Maybe :)
 
BearBurrito
distinguished member(825)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 11:30AM
This makes me so sad.
 
Snipit
distinguished member (361)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 12:01PM
missmolly: "Snipit, weren't cha tempted to tip it? I might have. "

We were GREATLY tempted to destroy it... a couple things that swayed us. First, every campsite around was occupied, and we were not sure the perpetrator wasn't still on site, and would be quite angry at us. Second, that sucker was very will constructed, it's gonna be quite the task to remove.
 
Snipit
distinguished member (361)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 12:10PM
Pinetree: "Snipit
When were your pictures taken? I see the pine boughs look fresh.
"


It was last week, I think either tuesday, or wednesday.
 
user0317
distinguished member (321)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 12:33PM
Entirely beside the point, but I think it looks like crap and is poorly thought out. It does little to keep out rain, and nothing to keep out insects and rodents. I would much rather sleep in a hammock or tent. What a sad waste of trees.
 
nofish
distinguished member(2764)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 12:36PM
GeoFisher: "


I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.


MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.



Quite simple.
"


While I agree that permit costs are relatively inexpensive where are you finding a $9 permit that covers an entire group? In addition to the reservation fee which I believe is $6 there is a fee for each adult and each youth. I believe my permit for 2 adults and 2 kids was $54 if I remember correctly. Still not expensive in my mind as I paid it without really even thinking about the cost but a far cry from the $9 you stated.


You mentioned $5 per day or $100 for a permit. Is that $100 a flat fee regardless of how many are in the group?

A group of 4 adults is currently paying $70 for a permit or $17.50 per person. Does making it $100 or $25/person make much of a difference? If the $100 is a flat fee regardless of group size then once a group reaches 6 or more the $100 permit is actually cheaper than the current permit costs.

If you charge $5 per day per person it might make more sense but you lose money on small groups doing short weekend trips compared to current costs.

It would be nice to fund more enforcement but how much more would be needed? In reality the vast majority of bwca visitors largely follow the rules and don't have a huge negative impact. We're talking about a very small number of real idiots that trash sites and build garbage like this. You could double the enforcement budget and double enforcement patrols and you still may not get lucky to catch this kind of stuff as its happening. Thats the issue with enforcement here, you have to catch people in the act.
 
Pinetree
distinguished member(12725)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
08/12/2020 12:43PM
Snipit: "Pinetree: "Snipit
When were your pictures taken? I see the pine boughs look fresh.
"



It was last week, I think either tuesday, or wednesday."


Wow-you think someone would of seen them or at least Forest service could get it down to a couple of parties if they had a permit?

Its someone I think just thinks he can do what they want, disregarding how it affects others or the land. These type people have been around before like earlier posts on East Pike a few years ago and I have seen like on Carol lake next to Alice about 10 years ago, like 30 beer cans spread around a campfire and other things thrown around on purpose. Some have a mentality people on this board can't fathom. I can't.
 
Boundary Boy
distinguished member (165)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 01:33PM
treehorn: "Boundary Boy: "There are all kinds of YouTubers out there promoting this as woodcraft. "


Well, it is woodcraft, and it's not something I really have the knowledge to take on myself. But, of course they did it in the wrong place. Build these shelters and practice your bushcraft on private property, please. Cool construction, but not cool selection of where to do it."


I agree it's not the place to practice wood craft/bush craft.
I was only pointing out that a lot of YouTubers have videos showing how to build structures using your surroundings. Some of those YouTubers are ex-contestants on TV series Alone. I follow many of those YouTubers and Alone.I have noticed that more and more people are practicing this on public lands.
 
jdevries
distinguished member(1630)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 01:53PM
Unreal.

I'm guessing someone decided to do their best imitation of Alone. Go out with a small pack of gear, a tarp, some paracord, no food, and see how long they could last. I'm also guessing they cut down close to 100 trees in the effort.

JD
 
Gadfly
distinguished member (405)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 02:02PM
GeoFisher: "MikeinMpls: "I hope this thing is or will be torn down. It would be a nice stash of campfire wood, notwithstanding the unfortunate origin.



I wonder if this is intended to be someone's rustic winter deer camp or similar.



Something must be done about the clownery that has invaded BDub. At this point it's like a virus (irony noted) that likely won't kill the BDub but may make it very sick and take years to recover.



Mike "



Charge significantly MORE.......and take all that money and fund more rangers, and then TAKE OUT the effing TRASH.


I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.


MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.



Quite simple.
"


Charging more for camping is racist just ask the LA Times
 
Duckman
distinguished member (404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 02:20PM
Ugh
 
user0317
distinguished member (321)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 02:53PM
Gadfly: "GeoFisher: "MikeinMpls: "I hope this thing is or will be torn down. It would be a nice stash of campfire wood, notwithstanding the unfortunate origin.



I wonder if this is intended to be someone's rustic winter deer camp or similar.



Something must be done about the clownery that has invaded BDub. At this point it's like a virus (irony noted) that likely won't kill the BDub but may make it very sick and take years to recover.



Mike "




Charge significantly MORE.......and take all that money and fund more rangers, and then TAKE OUT the effing TRASH.



I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.



MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.



Quite simple.
"



Charging more for camping is racist just ask the LA Times "


Seemed like a mostly positive article about a group providing free camping equipment to people of color. I may have missed it, but I did not notice it saying that raising fees for camping is racist.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(6919)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/12/2020 03:22PM
user0317: "Gadfly: "GeoFisher: "MikeinMpls: "I hope this thing is or will be torn down. It would be a nice stash of campfire wood, notwithstanding the unfortunate origin.




I wonder if this is intended to be someone's rustic winter deer camp or similar.




Something must be done about the clownery that has invaded BDub. At this point it's like a virus (irony noted) that likely won't kill the BDub but may make it very sick and take years to recover.




Mike "




Charge significantly MORE.......and take all that money and fund more rangers, and then TAKE OUT the effing TRASH.



I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.



MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.




Quite simple.
"




Charging more for camping is racist just ask the LA Times "



Seemed like a mostly positive article about a group providing free camping equipment to people of color. I may have missed it, but I did not notice it saying that raising fees for camping is racist. "


That was my read too and I'm a damn good reader.
 
GopherAdventure
distinguished member(690)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 04:13PM
missmolly: "user0317: "Gadfly: "GeoFisher: "MikeinMpls: "I hope this thing is or will be torn down. It would be a nice stash of campfire wood, notwithstanding the unfortunate origin.

I wonder if this is intended to be someone's rustic winter deer camp or similar.

Something must be done about the clownery that has invaded BDub. At this point it's like a virus (irony noted) that likely won't kill the BDub but may make it very sick and take years to recover.

Mike "

Charge significantly MORE.......and take all that money and fund more rangers, and then TAKE OUT the effing TRASH.

I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.

MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.

Quite simple. "

Charging more for camping is racist just ask the LA Times "
.
Seemed like a mostly positive article about a group providing free camping equipment to people of color. I may have missed it, but I did not notice it saying that raising fees for camping is racist. "

That was my read too and I'm a damn good reader. "

I’m not as good of a reader as MissMolly, but I feel the same.
 
WI Paddler
member (38)member
 
08/12/2020 04:17PM
It almost looks like a makeshift hunting blind?
 
GeoFisher
distinguished member(1538)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 05:08PM
nofish: "GeoFisher: "



I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.



MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.



Quite simple.
"



While I agree that permit costs are relatively inexpensive where are you finding a $9 permit that covers an entire group? In addition to the reservation fee which I believe is $6 there is a fee for each adult and each youth. I believe my permit for 2 adults and 2 kids was $54 if I remember correctly. Still not expensive in my mind as I paid it without really even thinking about the cost but a far cry from the $9 you stated.



You mentioned $5 per day or $100 for a permit. Is that $100 a flat fee regardless of how many are in the group?


A group of 4 adults is currently paying $70 for a permit or $17.50 per person. Does making it $100 or $25/person make much of a difference? If the $100 is a flat fee regardless of group size then once a group reaches 6 or more the $100 permit is actually cheaper than the current permit costs.


If you charge $5 per day per person it might make more sense but you lose money on small groups doing short weekend trips compared to current costs.


It would be nice to fund more enforcement but how much more would be needed? In reality the vast majority of bwca visitors largely follow the rules and don't have a huge negative impact. We're talking about a very small number of real idiots that trash sites and build garbage like this. You could double the enforcement budget and double enforcement patrols and you still may not get lucky to catch this kind of stuff as its happening. Thats the issue with enforcement here, you have to catch people in the act."


I must admit it has been a long time since I pulled a permit........LONG TIME, as I've been in Quetico. So, yea, it is 16 a person and 6 bucks to reserve it....MY bad. AT 16 a person that is about 100 bucks for my group of 6......

But lets use the quetico costs for my example. I go with 6 guys, and those permits are per day. We go for 10 days. So at 20 a day or whatever that permit cost is.....that is 20 x 10 x 6. THAT is a shit ton of money for the coffers to protect the area..something like 10x what the US collects.

I'm just saying, it is a cheap ass trip to go to the Boundary Waters........make it more.

 
08/12/2020 05:23PM
GeoFisher:
"



Charge significantly MORE.......and take all that money and fund more rangers, and then TAKE OUT the effing TRASH.


I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.


MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.



Quite simple.
"

Geo,
I agree that the fees should go up, but you are way off on your numbers. I just took a group of 6 onto the Lady Chain and the permit had a $6 online fee, a $16 per person fee (plus my $8 Sr Citizens fee) for a total of $94. It's always important to get your facts straight before you make a claim of impropriety.
 
Pinetree
distinguished member(12725)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
08/12/2020 05:29PM
The question as is now only a certain percent of the money goes back to the area it originated from. Because of increased fires nation wide and priorities to fight the fires by the USFS money has been drained from enforcement and maintenance of these areas. Money has to appropiated(sp) for these needs again also.
 
nofish
distinguished member(2764)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 06:00PM
I wonder if there is any chance the Great American Outdoors Act will provide more money for enforcement efforts in the BWCA.
 
Pinetree
distinguished member(12725)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
08/12/2020 06:09PM
nofish: "I wonder if there is any chance the Great American Outdoors Act will provide more money for enforcement efforts in the BWCA."

I hope so, time will tell. I think in the past royalties from oil and well drilling a certain percent was suppose to go to the various public land agencies. Much was diverted. But that is a different topic, so best to leave it right there for now.
 
AllAmericanGeek
 
08/12/2020 06:33PM
jdevries: "Unreal.


I'm guessing someone decided to do their best imitation of Alone. Go out with a small pack of gear, a tarp, some paracord, no food, and see how long they could last. I'm also guessing they cut down close to 100 trees in the effort.


JD"


Reported that a chainsaw was used... methinks not a very good imitation.
 
Portage99
distinguished member (451)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 06:35PM
It looks like a blind to me, also.

People never cease to amaze me with their complete lack of regard for the wilderness. Our mainstream cultural values suck.

And...where do you go to get away from it, anymore? Seems like I am always running into stupidity. Some of my "secret" spots are being developed into these obnoxious, rich subdivisions way out in the middle of nowhere.....

People do suck sometimes.
 
Pinetree
distinguished member(12725)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
08/12/2020 07:05PM
Portage99: "It looks like a blind to me, also.


People never cease to amaze me with their complete lack of regard for the wilderness. Our mainstream cultural values suck.


And...where do you go to get away from it, anymore? Seems like I am always running into stupidity. Some of my "secret" spots are being developed into these obnoxious, rich subdivisions way out in the middle of nowhere.....


People do suck sometimes."


Yep growing up I guess I thought all the wild areas or public land, yes throw in private land also would always be there like they were. Boy was I wrong and they are changing at a accelerated pace.
 
Portage99
distinguished member (451)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 07:11PM
Exactly! That is why we need to fight so hard for public lands. So many areas are trashed that are not protected. I mean, we know have major issues in protected land, but at least it offers some amount of protection from development.

I am glad my Dad did not see this new subdivision. It is really sad to see all these crazy big homes sprawling over the little wild land we have left in IL.....for what? I don't get it.

That is what bugs me-is the senselessness of it. No real point. Just random acts of destruction. I try to enjoy the windows of beauty as they come and not get too worked up.
 
AllAmericanGeek
 
08/12/2020 07:21PM
This pisses me off to no end. I hope they find out who did it and make an example of them. Fines, jail, confiscate vehicles, gear, whatever. It’s all evidence. Throw the book at them.
 
Snipit
distinguished member (361)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 09:46PM
WI Paddler: "It almost looks like a makeshift hunting blind?"

It would be the worst “blind” ever... the only real opening faces The water, with no clear shot of anything. It’s 25 to 30 feet up on a rock outcropping.
 
Pinetree
distinguished member(12725)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
08/12/2020 10:47PM
Snipit: "WI Paddler: "It almost looks like a makeshift hunting blind?"


It would be the worst “blind” ever... the only real opening faces The water, with no clear shot of anything. It’s 25 to 30 feet up on a rock outcropping."


agree that is not a blind
 
scat
distinguished member(892)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/12/2020 10:51PM
After seeing that, I wish I was blind. Whatever happened to plumb, level and square.
 
Boppasteveg
senior member (59)senior membersenior member
 
08/13/2020 08:34AM
OneMatch: "GeoFisher:
"


I agree with you about charging more. Not only might that deter some of the irresponsible asshats who are doing damage but it could help fund other areas. I am an alumni of a scout troop in Minneapolis. The troop "owns" (The sponsoring institution owns it) camp property in Wisconsin. Each spring a small alumni group I'm part of goes up to the camp for an extended weekend. We pay $50 per night! Yeah...it is a little pricey but we know that money goes into back into the wooded camp we all love. Point is, I think those of us who truly love the BWCAW would be willing to pay more to use it.

Charge significantly MORE.......and take all that money and fund more rangers, and then TAKE OUT the effing TRASH.



I mean really........9 bucks for an entire group for up to 2 weeks. THAT is idiocy. How about 5 bucks a day per person, or how about 100 buck permit fee.



MAKE it a serious amount of money and start funding the enforcement arm we all want.



Quite simple.
"



Geo,
I agree that the fees should go up, but you are way off on your numbers. I just took a group of 6 onto the Lady Chain and the permit had a $6 online fee, a $16 per person fee (plus my $8 Sr Citizens fee) for a total of $94. It's always important to get your facts straight before you make a claim of impropriety."
 
missmolly
distinguished member(6919)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/13/2020 08:48AM
scat: "After seeing that, I wish I was blind. Whatever happened to plumb, level and square."

You are a witty man, scat!
 
acanoer
member (36)member
 
08/13/2020 09:03AM
Not a hunting blind for sure I built dozens and seen many more dozens none ever looked like that.

Plus what would they be hunting at such a location and at this time of year.

Seems like a lot of work for a temporary shelter most likely a couple of people trying out their "wood skills".

As far as the trees they well grow back. That's what trees do.

Far more trees are destroyed in one fire and they grow back.

Should it have been done and should have it happen No.

But in all reality it doesn't affect the whole scheme of things if left alone it will rot into the ground and be a pile of nothing.

 
nofish
distinguished member(2764)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 09:18AM
acanoer: "Not a hunting blind for sure I built dozens and seen many more dozens none ever looked like that.


Plus what would they be hunting at such a location and at this time of year.


Seems like a lot of work for a temporary shelter most likely a couple of people trying out their "wood skills".


As far as the trees they well grow back. That's what trees do.


Far more trees are destroyed in one fire and they grow back.


Should it have been done and should have it happen No.

But in all reality it doesn't affect the whole scheme of things if left alone it will rot into the ground and be a pile of nothing.


"


The issue with things like this is that it takes a long time for the forest to regrow these trees that were cut down and it takes a long time for a structure like that to fall apart and rot to the point its no longer an eye sore. A day or 2 of fun for this group will take years for the forest to reclaim.

The other issue is this is one single instance. If this becomes common and we see these at every other campsite now you've got a big issue.
 
Pinetree
distinguished member(12725)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
08/13/2020 09:36AM
It should be torn down now and if possible maybe burn the logs-is this at a designated campsite?
 
merlyn
senior member (100)senior membersenior member
 
08/13/2020 10:45AM
Click on "bush craft" and dozens of youtube channels will pop up. Most if not all will show making a "primitive shelter" just like that one. The show alone was a direct result of the interest people have in these videos. The sad part is someone took it to the BWCA instead of their own back yard.
Many people subscribe to those bush craft channels and enjoy their content, and think that is what the outdoors is all about. Joe Robinet's channel has over a million subscribers, including me, with canoe camping being a large part of his content . He also has built several shelters exactly like that one only on his own property or not wilderness and tears them down later.
If youtubers like Joe , with so much influence , strongly pass on the message of LNT it will reach many, many people. YA hear that Joe?
 
user0317
distinguished member (321)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 11:22AM
merlyn: "Click on "bush craft" and dozens of youtube channels will pop up. Most if not all will show making a "primitive shelter" just like that one. The show alone was a direct result of the interest people have in these videos. The sad part is someone took it to the BWCA instead of their own back yard.
Many people subscribe to those bush craft channels and enjoy their content, and think that is what the outdoors is all about. Joe Robinet's channel has over a million subscribers, including me, with canoe camping being a large part of his content . He also has built several shelters exactly like that one only on his own property or not wilderness and tears them down later.
If youtubers like Joe , with so much influence , strongly pass on the message of LNT it will reach many, many people. YA hear that Joe?
"

Maybe Joe should teach these folks how to rig a tarp, so it'll actually keep the rain off of you. The way it is tied onto that 'structure' the water would pool and it would leak all over the place. Wind-driven rain would be even worse. All that effort and destruction and you end up with a worse shelter then you could have made with just the rope and tarp... pathetic.
 
Snipit
distinguished member (361)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 12:14PM
Pinetree: "It should be torn down now and if possible maybe burn the logs-is this at a designated campsite?"

It was on the east shore, just north of the center campsite. Well within walking distance of that campsite.
 
08/13/2020 02:41PM
Lynx is a beautiful lake. I paddled by that middle camp site in June. It was occupied. I did not see this monstrosity.

As far as the youtubers, I think they could make it clear where they are and what the rules are. What a Canadian citizen is allowed to do on Crown land in Canada is different than what they can do at a provincial park. What a US citizen can do on national forest land is different than the rules for the bwca. The videos don't have to give away gps coordinates but they could make it clear if they are on private land, national forest, provincial park or a designated wilderness.

Someone specifically mentioned Joe Robinet. In his latest video he does show how to hang up a tarp to keep the rain off. He also uses a dead and down tree to build a camp fire. AFAIK, Joe follows the rules for the land he is on.
 
airmorse
distinguished member(2695)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 02:43PM
Who sets the price for permits?

What is the process involved to change the price of permits?

When was the last time there was a price change?

How long would the approval process take to increase the permit price?

 
nofish
distinguished member(2764)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 02:55PM
airmorse: "Who sets the price for permits?


What is the process involved to change the price of permits?


When was the last time there was a price change?


How long would the approval process take to increase the permit price?


"


You're also missing the question of how do you ensure increased fees go to enforcement or education in order to prevent damage from being done to the BWCA by visitors?

Increasing fees is one thing but if the extra revenue is funneled elsewhere it doesn't do anything but drain our wallets a bit more every year.
 
moray
distinguished member (158)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 04:32PM


I posted these last year. This was the East island campsite on Meads. I was staying at the other island site and stopped to checkout this site when the occupants left. A new group took the site before I could dismantle it. I reported it to my outfitter.
 
Portage99
distinguished member (451)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2020 05:14PM
acanoer: "Not a hunting blind for sure I built dozens and seen many more dozens none ever looked like that.


Plus what would they be hunting at such a location and at this time of year.


Seems like a lot of work for a temporary shelter most likely a couple of people trying out their "wood skills".


As far as the trees they well grow back. That's what trees do.


Far more trees are destroyed in one fire and they grow back.


Should it have been done and should have it happen No.

But in all reality it doesn't affect the whole scheme of things if left alone it will rot into the ground and be a pile of nothing.


"


Not if multiplied by X number. Some individuals seem to think they're the only one visiting the site doing things like this, but what if 10 people did this...50 people...100 people...did this in the BWCA.
 
Bearpath9
distinguished member (217)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 07:48AM
Miss Molly, I don't know that I can take all the credit. Since you are an educator, you know that for a thought to grow, it has to have a receptive environment. Maybe my analogy is vague, but he showed the interest and the motivation to do it the right way. Asked questions, and didn't have to be reminded constantly. So I give him a lot of credit. And yes, I am proud of him.
 
chessie
distinguished member (129)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 08:43AM
I don't agree with raising fees. The cost of Quetico is prohibitive for me. I'm grateful BW is not as expensive as other areas. AND we need more people to experience and value the BW.

That said, after our recent trip, I, too, am so disgusted with what we saw. Not that it's new (trees with axe damage, cut down green trees, litter, foil in the fire grate, etc.), just more of it. I'm not very pro-regs, but maybe it's time to say that we've blown it, and some privileges get taken away. Like: no axes, maybe even no saws, or no fires.... and certainly, we need more of an educational/accountability mechanism than allowing people to just watch the video at home. Even in light of COVID, there are ways to assure that the educational video was viewed.
Compulsory education will/may help the BW neophytes, but then there are those that are simply non-compliant, another story.

In addition to tree damage, we found a full/large sized, falling apart, cooler on Heritage Lake two weeks ago. Maybe for peoples' 1st couple trips into the BW, they ought to be mandated to pass a test, including a shake down of gear? Got me, but whoever said it is right, more must be done to protect this area we all cherish!
 
Northland
distinguished member (197)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 04:49PM
I would propose raising the fees for first-timers and having them reduced from there. People who've been to the BW 10, 15, or 20 times over the years are not the problem. For example, institute the fee change and have it apply only to people with three trips or less under their belts. Everyone else stays the same

I think they also need to change the permit system to include the name of every camper on the permit, at least for novices. That would make it easier to track these folks down after they've logged half of the forest to make a stupid lean-to.

That shack is soon to be history, per the FS.

To me, "bushcraft" practitioners seem mostly to be younger, city people who can't change a tire, but learn one simple outdoor-related task (fire making, etc.) grow a long "man"-beard and are suddenly experts who want the world to see how adept they are at surviving in the woods. Came across some of them last weekend (not in the BW): every guy had some kind of huge bowie knife strapped to his belt, yet they were setting up torn tents held together with duct tape in the face of an impending thunderstorm and had one can of bug spray for 8 people. Of course, they had plenty of liquor and coolers full of beer. I'm sure there are some of these types who know what they're doing, but I don't see many.

That could be because - in my experience - people who truly love and appreciate the outdoors and are at home there don't have time to blow their own horns on youtube or social media. They're busy spending that time outdoors somewhere, on a trail or at a campsite, because that's where they're happiest.

Thankfully, it's likely a fad that'll pass. Probably when the virus is gone and there are other things to do.
 
Nigal
distinguished member (203)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 07:03PM
CityFisher74: "This pisses me off to no end. To make it worse, I'm afraid there is a 100% chance the inspiration came from one of my favorite shows, Alone."

I’ve been seeing a LOT of bad bushcraft crap out in the woods this year. Knuckleheads.
 
Zwater
distinguished member(558)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2020 09:11PM
Yes, completly wrong what they constructed!
Is everyone on this site "judge, jury and executioner?"
Everyone commenting seems "Holier than thou"

Just my opinion.
 
08/14/2020 09:36PM
Portage99: "acanoer: "Not a hunting blind for sure I built dozens and seen many more dozens none ever looked like that.

Plus what would they be hunting at such a location and at this time of year.

Seems like a lot of work for a temporary shelter most likely a couple of people trying out their "wood skills".

As far as the trees they well grow back. That's what trees do.

Far more trees are destroyed in one fire and they grow back.

Should it have been done and should have it happen No.

But in all reality it doesn't affect the whole scheme of things if left alone it will rot into the ground and be a pile of nothing. "

Not if multiplied by X number. Some individuals seem to think they're the only one visiting the site doing things like this, but what if 10 people did this...50 people...100 people...did this in the BWCA. "

99, exactly! Like if only 1 person washed a few dishes in the lake... no big deal. But two hundred and fifty thousand people did it, yikes. Same goes for the bushcraft bs. Sorry bs might be a little harsh... how bout eldorado poo poo! A lot of the rules might seem stricter then needed, but considering the number of people out there, without them the place would be totally ruined by now!
 
shock
distinguished member(3862)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/15/2020 06:11PM
Zwater: "Yes, completly wrong what they constructed!
Is everyone on this site "judge, jury and executioner?"
Everyone commenting seems "Holier than thou"

Just my opinion."

Executioner ?
 
Portage99
distinguished member (451)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/15/2020 06:21PM
shock: "Zwater: "Yes, completly wrong what they constructed!
Is everyone on this site "judge, jury and executioner?"
Everyone commenting seems "Holier than thou"

Just my opinion."

Executioner ? "

We generally don’t take things that far on BWCA.com.
 
Zwater
distinguished member(558)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/16/2020 12:34PM
Portage99: "shock: "Zwater: "Yes, completly wrong what they constructed!
Is everyone on this site "judge, jury and executioner?"
Everyone commenting seems "Holier than thou"

Just my opinion."

Executioner ? "

We generally don’t take things that far on BWCA.com."

Really? Have you read through all the comments on this thread and others?

Again, I don’t condone anything they did.
 
Portage99
distinguished member (451)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/16/2020 01:32PM
Zwater: "Portage99: "shock: "Zwater: "Yes, completly wrong what they constructed!
Is everyone on this site "judge, jury and executioner?"
Everyone commenting seems "Holier than thou"

Just my opinion."

Executioner ? "

We generally don’t take things that far on BWCA.com."

Really? Have you read through all the comments on this thread and others?

Again, I don’t condone anything they did."

I was joking that we usually don’t execute people. Haha

I guess it’s a values thing. I do judge people that do this. It makes me crazy.
 
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