Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: Bewildered/lost people
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Spartan2 |
"On the shore of Horseshoe Lake, after the portage, the couple came up behind us and the lady looked out on the lake, smiled, and said, "Ah, Insula!" We were shocked and checked our maps. Then Neil spoke to them and told them that they weren't at Insula at all. Come to find out, they just had a small line map given to them by an outfitter, and no real tripping map at all. So we shared one of our maps with them, and hoped that they would figure out where they were going." Have never understood how anyone could start out on a trip up there without a fairly good understanding of map reading, use of a compass, and a little common sense. But then, we never took a GPS, either. I suppose that changes things somewhat. Maybe a lot. We have been "temporarily misplaced" on canoe trips from time to time. But never really "lost." Spartan1 had a really good handle on the above-mentioned map skills, compass use, and usually the common sense as well. I always had my own map with me, and I would say the majority of the time I also knew where we were and where we were going. |
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OMGitsKa |
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joeandali |
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MikeinMpls |
It's funny how we can confirm where we are, and swear to G-d that we are in the right place...but we're not. I never bring GPS, I'm all map and compass, and I will even sometimes interpret the terrain I'm in as where I want to be on the map. It's easy to do, especially those who have very limited experience with a map, and likely no experience with a compass. But I constantly follow where I am on the map...and I don't get lost. I would live to know how many people trip with GPS only, but bring a map for "backup," though they don't know how to use the map. Kind of a useless backup if one doesn't know how to use it. Mike |
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thegildedgopher |
OMGitsKa: "People should really be downloading offline maps on their phones. Your GPS still works even if you don't have service. Doesn't mean you need to always use it but taking it out when you are unsure where you are or what direction you need to go makes navigating much easier. " Could not agree more. Ideally people will know how to use a map and compass, but in this day and age, almost everybody has the tools at their fingertips to make sure they don’t get lost and end up in a bad position. I have gotten turned around in a cluster of islands before on sag, but two minutes with the phone and I was sorted out. If you don’t know where you are, a map is less helpful. In that scenario, it’s incredibly easy to open your GPS app hit a button and find out your exact location. |
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alpinebrule |
They didn't have a map, but that is another thread. Was on the way out and gave them my old spare map. In retrospect should have traded it for what most likely was beer in a hard-sided cooler. Guess generosity overcame situational awareness. |
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ForestDuff |
Set them on the right course. |
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deerfoot |
As we talked to them it became apparent they weren’t sure exactly where they were. We broke out the maps and GPS to show them. What struck me was how nonchalant the older guy was about being lost. He made some comment about this stating that he always figures it out eventually. |
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timatkn |
Was camped on Adams Lake. Went to Amber shooting for the beach campsite…was taken so had lunch…moved on to Malberg and was goin to take the high camp in the narrows and it started to rain. It was our last day…I didn’t want to set up in the rain just to sit in a tent the last day so I said to my wife Sara let’s just leave. I think we can get out in a couple of hours. My watch had broken…I really had no sense of time. We were a week in the bush and portaging was pretty easy at this point probably made really good time but as we finished the portage from Polly to Kawasachong the world went black. We paddled out on Kawishiwi Lake and I assumed the campground would have multiple fires to guide us near the landing, but no…barely any fires. After paddling around for 30 minutes we stopped at the Northern most island site (didn’t know that then) and grudgingly asked where they were camped. I had no idea where I was on the lake. Human communication is sometimes difficult as the couple was trying to help but kept directing us to open camp sites. They thought we just arrived by car…finally they showed me on my map where their camp was so I could right myself…I used Venus as my guide to go straight down the lake to the landing based on their help. We couldn’t see the landing until we almost hit it, it was so dark. This was early Fall and we were loaded up in the car by 9:45 PM. This was 2002… the couple we stopped at…was hilarious the husband kept telling the wife every few minutes “Stir dem Tators”…we still use that line anytime we cook potatoes and our kids 12 and 16 use it too. LOL T |
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toastedmarshmallow12 |
OMGitsKa: "People should really be downloading offline maps on their phones. Your GPS still works even if you don't have service. Doesn't mean you need to always use it but taking it out when you are unsure where you are or what direction you need to go makes navigating much easier. " People need to learn proper map and compass skills and not be reliant on a dot on a map on their phone. That takes zero skills |
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schweady |
Soledad: "Have a cabin on Farm lake, we see folks heading into South Farm instead of the Kawishiwi river all the time. Such a tough way to start a trip. " We were coming out after a nice basecamp on Clear Lake and were just exiting the Kawishiwi into what was obviously going to be quite a whitecapping headwind on Farm. The car was back at the B&B to the south and we are grateful to not to have to take that westerly route to the official landing. We could make out a rather frazzled couple coming toward us across Farm, using a very zig-zagged approach, so we hung out a bit to rest up and answer their question: "Is this the river or the lake?" "Which do you want it to be?" "The river, I think." "Where are you headed?" "The lake at the end of the river." "End of the.... Clear Lake?" "I think so." "You're fine. Just keep going..." We could only hope that there was another strategically stationed traveler to point them toward the portage... |
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gravelroad |
RedLakePaddler: "Around 40 years ago we were at the portage between Gibson and Cattyman. There was a group of college girls and a separate group of college boys. The boys didn’t know where they were so they asked us, the family with 2 small kids. There was no way they were going to admit to the girls they were lost. In nearly 20 years of responding to searches for missing persons, I recall exactly two occasions when a female got lost on her own. My favorite “preventive SAR” experience was when a wife came back to a summit and asked me to come over and show her husband the route down into the woods that I had described for them five minutes before. |
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Speckled |
We have twice that I can remember. Most recent was just this spring on our trip into Tuscarora. We finished the portage from Round to Missing Link and encountered a group of 6 on the Missing Link end. The usual chatter ensues, "Where you guys headed? " They respond with Gillis. I say, oh man - what made you choose this route, just felt like tackling the Tuscarora portage? Confused looks all around from the group. Me - Are you going through Brandt? They respond with yes. "So we're all standing on the shore of Missing Link lake right now". They respond with No - this is west round. Nah man - This is Missing Link. Maps come out, I explain where the portage to West Round was...they're still in disbelief. Then one guys states - why don't we just check your GPS Jeff. Jeff digs out the GPS and announces - we're on missing link. Laughs and groans and they start the portage back to Round, lol. The other one - We had just finished the portage from Canoe into Crystal and encountered a couple on Crystal wondering around looking for the trail to Johnson Falls. Turns out they paddled in later yesterday and thought they were on Pine. They camped at the western most site and were now on a "day trip" to see Johnson Falls. They too took some convincing to thier wherabouts. Not sure if they did day trip up or moved camp. We took the eastern site and didn't see them again. |
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timatkn |
Jackfish: "We were on a trip with our Boy Scout Troop maybe 20 years ago. We were camped on Yum Yum in Quetico and had packed up and gotten a semi-early start on the trail - might have been 8:00am when we pulled out of camp. We portaged into Grey, then were making the portage into the Unnamed Lake between Grey and Shade. We had seen no other groups in the last day or more. That area has gotten the best of many…including me LOL. I am not sure by your description if the group made the same mistake we did or not? There is an old version of that portage, from the no name to Grey or vice versa that is still in decent shape (probably because so many people still take it) In my case we Portaged from Grey to no name…looked at the map and saw if we stayed to the left we would hit the portage to shade eventually…the problem is in between is an old portage that looks good…we took it…then realized once we hit the swampy area we were wrong then ended up where we started on no name :) There was a group following us all day…when they saw us pop up behind them the surprise was hilarious. We shared our mistake, but it’s also easy to miss the second portage…they probably wouldn’t have done the wrong one. I knew as we started it didn’t feel right but the map did not have any other trails on it so we went with it. T |
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Stumpy |
thegildedgopher: "Stumpy: "Unless you are stupid, you don't need GPS, or a compass. Good point ! I retract |
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Deeznuts |
We ended up doubling back to Loon and completing a shorter loop than planned. Both her and I had made a comment about "Loon falls" that was completely ignored the entire 7 mile paddle up the river. I had never even seen the map for the first time until we were "lost". He still blames my "stronger than back in my day" electric lettuce. Don't blame MY pot for YOUR stubbornness. If he would have just listened to lauren at loon falls we would have avoided that cursed day altogether. It was still an amazing first trip and it was a lesson for me when guiding my own trip in 2021. I have had our 2023 trip planned for almost 2 years and everyone is so sick of me talking about the route we are taking, but I will never take someone out there without them knowing the route as well as I do. Emergencies arise and everyone needs to know exactly where we are. |
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Speckled |
dschult2: "Speckled: " Excited to see it - and gorgeous boat by the way! I loved the aesthetics. |
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Speckled |
Deeznuts: "It was still an amazing first trip and it was a lesson for me when guiding my own trip in 2021. " Don't forget the lesson of avoid the "Electric Lettuce" until you make it to camp. The Lettuce has sent more than one paddler, blindly paddling into the wild with a laser focus on whatever direction they are going, right wrong or otherwise, maps will bend to your will, protests will fade to a dull mumble and become part of the landscape and you will forge ahead, feeling as if you're paddling at a pace to win the AuSable canoe marathon, yet it feels so effortless. Only once the lettuce starts to fade, will you realize you are not where you thought you were and the protests will start to seep back into memory...or so i've been told. |
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Captn Tony |
Taking the west portage from Caribou to Clearwater, I followed what must be a hiking trail. This trail wasn't on our map and since I knew as long as we take a right where the trail splits we wouldn't get mixed up. Thank God some lady walked up from her campsite to let us know we had gotten off the portage trail. It only added about an extra mile to the portage. |
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eagle98mn |
OMGitsKa: "People should really be downloading offline maps on their phones. Your GPS still works even if you don't have service. Doesn't mean you need to always use it but taking it out when you are unsure where you are or what direction you need to go makes navigating much easier. " Completely agree! I've been doing this for a number of years now. A few years back, a buddy and I were on the NW side of Saganagons, working our way to the South end to setup our exit at Cache Bay the next day. We rarely have navigation issues (aside from one embarrassing trip that started the wrong direction on McFarland when we were in a rush), but on this occasion we suddenly realized that each of us were convinced we were in very different places on the lake. It was getting later in the day and we couldn't afford the time to be wrong, so I pulled out the phone and quickly verified our position [I was right :) ]. It was nice to stay found and be able to quickly settle the debate over where we were. |
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dschult2 |
Speckled: "How many of you have come across folks that think they are one place, but aren't? I'm pretty sure I ran into those same guys right after you. They looked very green and not happy. One of the guys asked his buddy which way the yoke was supposed to face while on his shoulders. Hopefully it worked out for them. Did you run into a guy with a black lab on that portage? If so, that was me. |
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YetiJedi |
I'll admit, it still was disconcerting to me to momentarily question my whereabouts, what I might have missed, and what the implications were if I was wrong. That feeling lingers but helps with planning and preparing...we bring a paper map with our intended route marked in pen and that is our primary navigation. I have a Garmin Inreach Explorer and set it to track my route so I can review my trip later and review pace and progress - my family also likes to follow along while they are home. And last year we started downloading maps to our phones as a final tool to keep us found. I do respect those who lived in the area hundreds of years ago, made rudimentary maps, and told stories to inform navigation...makes me reflect on the advances of technology versus the lost skills associated with tradition and human interaction necessary to live in the wilderness full time. |
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Speckled |
dschult2: "Speckled: "How many of you have come across folks that think they are one place, but aren't? Yes - Crazy!!!. My buddy Bryce came across you first and I was the taller guy that was right behind him. |
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RedLakePaddler |
Carl |
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Stumpy |
Just stay found. Don't paddle unknowingly into where you don't know. Hundreds of adventures and I have never been "lost".... confused once on Kawnipi and once while bushwhacking off the Wawiag River. Bushwhacking...bring the compass |
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A1t2o |
Turns out, we entered the wrong bay on Tuscarora and took the portage to Hubbub instead of Missing Link. That was a rather humbling experience. |
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jcavenagh |
We were so convinced that the well worn trail was the right one that we made a serious mistake. We went off trail even knowing that something was wrong about the trail. That kind of mistake gets people dead quite often. I had that moment of cold fear when I realized that we had no idea where we were in the woods. I had a good idea that I could intersect the original trail by heading southwest from the bog that we were in. I then followed my compass straight SW and did find the trail back to the boat. Another problem was that we were carrying packs while bushwhacking which made it that much more difficult. Oh, and we had left the maps in the boat, another bad mistake. |
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bottomtothetap |
RedLakePaddler: "Around 40 years ago we were at the portage between Gibson and Cattyman. There was a group of college girls and a separate group of college boys. The boys didn’t know where they were so they asked us, the family with 2 small kids. There was no way they were going to admit to the girls they were lost. Around ten years ago we also encountered a group of college girls at the base of the portage between Gibson and Cattyman when we were sitting in our canoe on Gibson about 20 yards off of the portage. If the girls knew where they were, they must have forgotten at least momentarily as one of them needed to correct, should we say, an "upper-half wardrobe malfunction", which she then proceeded to do without a care that other eyes would witness her procedure. Astonished, my B.I.L. in the stern discreetly asked, "Did you see that?" I simply responded, "Yup!" A day or two later, we saw this group again camped on Ensign. This same girl (or at least a look-alike wearing the same, now functioning, clothing) and another were seated down by the water and gave us a friendly "hello" as we paddled by. I responded the same and my B.I.L. gave them a "Nice to see you!". A little out of ear shot from this group we both burst out in laughter thinking must she have no clue why or that we would remember them. The other two guys in our group didn't either as they wondered what was so darn funny. A little OT, I know, but I think of this story every time I see "Gibson/Cattyman portage"! |
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nctry |
But it’s fun to see people disoriented... I just pretend like I’ve never been and smile and wave. Haha! My first time in what is now Atikiki I checked in at the ranger station and they told me how a group of Boy Scouts missed a turn and ended up in Bissett. I kinda laughed inside. Then ended up doing the same thing. I went home, studied up on map and compass and then went back understanding what I was doing wrong. I was like 22 at the time. We get spoiled with our Bwca type maps. |
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sns |
Forgive me for just linking to my report on it: Charlie & the MTA TLDR: A 26 hour, 1000 rod misstep |
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ksprinkles |
Once while camped on one of the island sites on Thursday Bay. A group of four paddled by camp fully loaded to one of the very back bays. It was late and they were paddling away from any campsites. The came back at almost dark and called up to us " Where are we ?" We told them the were in Thursday Bay. They paddled away as one of them muttered " How the F%*$k did we end up in Thursday Bay ?" The next time we were exiting from Fourtown to Mudro when we met a family of 4 portaging in towards Fourtown. They were loaded heavy with full sized coolers and such. We were double portaging so offered to help them on our return trip with the gear. During the trip across they mentioned something about Horse Lake. I let them know they were headed to Fourtown. The father then said he didn't have a map, because he was there 20 years ago ..lol I told him I was there the year before and still needed a map Another time, My son and I had just finished the 3 portages from Fourtown to Mudro and were paddling to the exit. We saw a solo canoe and a tandem coming from the other side of the lake. We decided to dig in and get ahead of them to avoid a traffic jam. They flagged us down with a paddle wave so we went over to them. They asked how far it was to Fall Lake. I said I have no idea but it would be a long way to paddle there !!! We had them follow us to our truck and took one of them to their car at the Fall Lake entry while the rest of their group waited at Mudro. Amazes me that people would take on the adventure without an adequate map .! We paddle in Sunday next week, I will make sure I have my map ..!!! |
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TreeBear |
I think I was on Insula or maybe Alice when it happened so a decent ways into the wilderness. I sure hope they found their way out because it was not trending well! Haha. |
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boonie |
The best advice is the book title, "Stay Found". |
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Soledad |
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bottomtothetap |
Soledad: "Have a cabin on Farm lake, we see folks heading into South Farm instead of the Kawishiwi river all the time. Such a tough way to start a trip. " More than once I've encountered similar when folks were headed east to the Kawishiwi river out of Farm when they thought they were going into Garden |
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iCallitMaize |
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gravelroad |
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bottomtothetap |
Soledad: "Have a cabin on Farm lake, we see folks heading into South Farm instead of the Kawishiwi river all the time. Such a tough way to start a trip. " More than once I've encountered similar when folks were headed east to the Kawishiwi river out of Farm when they thought they were going into Garden |
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Freeleo1 |
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gsfisher13 |
ksprinkles: "I have been on 5 Trips to the BWCA. We have run across groups that are a bit confused 3 of those trips. Ok, i had to pull out a map and look, how "off" do you have to be to be paddling on Mudro looking for Fall Lake. Wow, is all i can say. |
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ksprinkles |
Ok, i had to pull out a map and look, how "off" do you have to be to be paddling on Mudro looking for Fall Lake. Wow, is all i can say. Best I could figure their plan was to take the portage out of Sandpit to take the creek to Basswood and paddle and portage their way to Fall Lake( I don't even know if that is possible) . This was late in the afternoon, we had traveled that day all the way from Thursday Bay. If that was the intended route, they still had many hours left and it would have been well after dark before they made it out that way ..! |
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Gish |
Stumpy: "Unless you are stupid, you don't need GPS, or a compass. so by your own logic, you are stupid because you use a compass when bushwhacking... ironic. I think just about anyone would argue you'd be stupid NOT to bring a compass to aid in navigation if needed. |
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podgeo |
gsfisher13: "ksprinkles: "I have been on 5 Trips to the BWCA. We have run across groups that are a bit confused 3 of those trips. That was my same thought |
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Jackfish |
As we are finishing the Unnamed to Shade portage, we suddenly hear a group behind us. Their intention was to get to Kahshahpiwi, but they were now heading eastward as they came up behind us. I don't remember specifically where they were camped, but it was somewhere around the S-chain. They had gotten onto the portage trail to Grey and were confused by a moose trail which led them back in the direction from which they had come. We got the maps out, helped them get their bearings and set them straight on where they were. They were absolutely convinced they were at Yum Yum and heading west. I believe the last words they said to us were, "Boy, are we glad we ran into you guys!" LOL |
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thegildedgopher |
Stumpy: "Unless you are stupid, you don't need GPS, or a compass. Different people have different skill sets and levels of experience. For some it would be stupid NOT to bring a compass or gps, but for you they are unnecessary. “Don’t paddle unknowingly into where you don’t know.” — the problem is some folks don’t know what they don’t know. Remember that this forum is read by many who have little or no experience navigating in the wilderness. They might never post but they are here looking for info and we should all consider the implications of our advice. I don’t want to give anyone a false sense of confidence, personally. |
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dschult2 |
Speckled: " Small world. It was a pleasure to meet you guys. I was coming out from doing the Frost river. I will have a video up at some point. |
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Savage Voyageur |
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mgraber |
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