Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: Tarp rope
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Scout64 |
I stay away from any materials that stretch when wet. |
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boonie |
Speaking of hardware . . . has anyone tried the Loop Alien ? |
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Argo |
unshavenman: "While I only use amsteel and lash-it/Zing-it for my hammock fly, I use the CCS cordage on my tarp. 80' for the continuous ridgeline and 20' on each corner. I use some thinner cordage to prussik to the ridgeline loop via S biner for quick release to lower the tarp ends when it rains. I also carry six additional 20' hanks of CCS cordage in case I have to extend my corner tieouts to distant trees. I attach the ridgeline at one tree with a bowline knot and I tension at the other tree with a truckers hitch. I also carry some figure 9's just in case, but I like to play with knots. I see you are not looping the ridgeline through the two end loops. I hadn't thought of that. So when you remove the S biner to lower the tarp ends, what do you do with the end loop? Tie it to the base of the tree or do you just add tension to the corners? |
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Lawnchair107 |
boonie: "Well, looks like I have more things to experiment with . . . This looks like an awesome alternative (looks like it could fit 2.2 mm zing it?) to the Dutchware hardware that requires 1.75 mm cord. One of the reasons I went with Dutchware Wasps and Flyz for my truckers hitches was to avoid the rope to rope abrasion over time. With the hardware, I’m hoping to get longevity out of my cordage. Anyone else dealt with this? Im specifically talking about the truckers hitch knot of when you really tug to get taut. |
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MidwestFirecraft |
Argo: "I see you are not looping the ridgeline through the two end loops. I hadn't thought of that. So when you remove the S biner to lower the tarp ends, what do you do with the end loop? Tie it to the base of the tree or do you just add tension to the corners?" Last Loop I think this will help with a visual for your answer ^ |
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tomo |
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Blackdogyak |
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Lawnchair107 |
tomo: "Zing it for ridgeline and tie outs, dutchware hardware for ridgeline (dutch hook, wasp), NAMA claws in place of prusik NAMA CLAWS How are the NAMA Claws? Do they eat up the line at all when theyre in use? |
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sns |
Blackdogyak: "OK, I have a question. I'm currently using a 10mm "climbing" rope for my ridgeline. I think it's a 60'. I want to switch over to amsteel 11/64" to save weight. Will the same material work for prussiks? The amsteel seems "slippery" and normally I'm used to using a prussik line that is significantly smaller than the main line. I have knot (!) used a prusik with amsteel, but I believe that folks use it just fine. I use a Blake's instead of a prusik for my tarps these days, but in terms of amsteel...11/64 is serious overkill. 7/64 will hold an automobile, and it's easy to splice it. |
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Blackdogyak |
spud: "I do love these threads... My first trip up, our collective tarp game was pretty bad, so i have made it my goal to get better at it.. I do also go the way of using hardware, and have the figure 9's for my corner tieouts, and use the zing-it as I have plenty to use for my hammock tarp as well.. Its easier to get others to help, when you don't need to worry about their knot knowledge and all they need to do is know how to wrap it around the hardware.. Nothing gives the sense of pride more than a well implemented tarp setup!" I generally avoid hardware because it can get lost very easily, and it's smart to know the knots that have been used for centuries. However, I have found the NiteIze Figure 9 Carabiner clips are very handy for the bottom of a tarp when it is pulled close to the ground. Normally I use a tautline hitch for guying out, but this is problematic when the tarp end is close to grade. There's only so much adjustment you can do before you either have to move the stake or rety the knot. This is where the Figure 9 Carabiner really shines. Easy to use and FAST to adjust in pouring rain and dark when you need to re-rig quickly. They are black, which is stupid. Spray paint them orange or something bright. NiteIze Figure 9 Carabiner |
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Blackdogyak |
Argo: "goaljohnbill: "MidwestFirecraft: ... YES! Excellent Idea! Eliminates one piece of hardware...plus...the stick can stay in place and be used for raising the ridge higher and for shaking it loose when striking camp. |
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tomo |
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unshavenman |
BWCAgoer: "For the S biner attachment to the center peripheral tarp loop attachment to prusik line, how strong does S-Biner need to be? I think that your linked size 5 S-Biner might actually be overkill. I'm all about weight savings, so maybe a size 2 or 3 would be more appropriate in this application. I've used small lightweight carabiners as well. They don't need to be load bearing as they are just used as a quick-release point while attached to the prusik loops when the tarp is deployed during non-storm mode. |
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boonie |
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campnfish |
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unshavenman |
Argo: "unshavenman: "While I only use amsteel and lash-it/Zing-it for my hammock fly, I use the CCS cordage on my tarp. 80' for the continuous ridgeline and 20' on each corner. I use some thinner cordage to prussik to the ridgeline loop via S biner for quick release to lower the tarp ends when it rains. I also carry six additional 20' hanks of CCS cordage in case I have to extend my corner tieouts to distant trees. I attach the ridgeline at one tree with a bowline knot and I tension at the other tree with a truckers hitch. I also carry some figure 9's just in case, but I like to play with knots. I have a 20' hank of cordage attached to each end loop. When there's a storm approaching I will unhook the end loops from the S biners and then tie the ends out low, either to a tree or to a stake. It works beautifully. |
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BWCAgoer |
Nite Ize Size-2 S-Biner Dual Carabiner, Stainless-Steel, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WUIGYA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_SPXGWYFE8TGJVGRZG2YX?psc=1 Size 5 (100lb)? Thanks!! |
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mags459 |
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BWCAgoer |
Going to make my first CCS tarp purchase at Midwest Mountaineering expo later this month. What length and size of rope do you use for the center line of a ridgeline setup? Based on what I’ve read on the forum, you want the center ridgeline to be a larger diameter rope than the rope used to tie the prusik knots to tighten the ridgeline, correct? Also, what diameter rope do you use for the guy lines? Thanks! |
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Argo |
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spud |
So based on all the wise people on here, it seems a good number go with the yellow rope that CCS includes with their tarps.. Additionally a lot of recommendations for the lash-it or zing-it (color is the only difference) for corners and other tie-outs.. My recommendation is to learn how to tie a sheetbend knot if you don't already know, as it is one of the best ways to tie additional lengths to your rope/tie outs... A lot of folks will leave short lengths tied to loops on the tarp at all times, and then use a sheetbend to attach their tieout cordage depending on which of those locations works best for the spot you are hanging the tarp in.. while it seems like having long ropes would be beneficial, I have often run into situations where it is a negative thing and makes it more difficult to tie it.. And it just seems so bad when you have to cut your rope to shorten it or need additional length elsewhere :) When it comes to setups, I always have looked at Buttheads posts with the standard that I hope to some day get to! |
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Argo |
But for a smaller, lightweight tarp I have 750 paracord. I really like to lean into a trucker's knot (provided you can get leverage) at one end of the ridgeline in order make it really firm. This knot is also good if you're threading your ridgeline through the tarp loops first. I prefer to hang the tarps through from the loops provided the tarp has at least one loop in addition to the two end loops. My hammock tarp only has end loops so I drape the centre-line over the ridgeline. I just use regular 550 paracord for tie-outs. If you can get the reflective stuff that's a bonus. |
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Lawnchair107 |
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Lawnchair107 |
schweady: "tomo: "...NAMA claws in place of prusik NAMA CLAWS " CCS cordage looks to be too large. Tomo, I went ahead and purchased a couple of these, thanks for the tip. |
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BWCAgoer |
I’ve mastered the Siberian hitch as shown in this video. https://youtu.be/f-xNVIbNVJM What do you mean tying it “high above reach”? |
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Lawnchair107 |
When I tie my siberian hitches, I hardly cinch them down with my hands like in the video. Tie the knot, pull on the working end until the knot reaches the tree to cinch itself. |
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schweady |
tomo: "...NAMA claws in place of prusik NAMA CLAWS " So, is the 1/8" yellow poly that Dan sends with his CCS tarps too big to use with these? |
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Blackdogyak |
One other related question: When you reef on a trucker's hitch with the amsteel...can you get a good purchase? I feel like the stuff would want to cut into my hand like fishing braid does. Thanks. |
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butthead |
butthead |
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plander |
Blackdogyak: "OK, I have a question. I'm currently using a 10mm "climbing" rope for my ridgeline. I think it's a 60'. I want to switch over to amsteel 11/64" to save weight. Will the same material work for prussiks? The amsteel seems "slippery" and normally I'm used to using a prussik line that is significantly smaller than the main line. I use 7/64 amsteel as the ridgeline with prusiks made from zing-it (1.75 mm). Works fine, no issue with prusiks slipping. Trucker’s hitch and Siberian hitch hold well and release well with the amsteel. No issue there. |
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Blackdogyak |
I'm new to the tarp and hammock but I've been outdoors and backpacking for decades. I like my tarp OVER my ridgeline. Like having the ridge exposed on the inside of the tarp for hanging various items. Very convenient. Also, I like the continuous support rather than putting the load on the tie-out points. I started using Nite-Ize figure nine carbineers for my guyines to stakes. I'm used to tying the tautline hitch in this application but it's frequently a nuisance when the distance from tarp to ground is one or two feet. Often there's not enough adjustment and the hitch has to be retied. I leave the caribeneer clipped to the tie-out point and the short guy line of 2mm reflective line tied to the stake. It takes a second to run the line into the figure-9 and it stays put. Especially if you add a half hitch. Makes adjusting tension later almost effortless. |
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Blackdogyak |
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Lawnchair107 |
Blackdogyak: "PS....does anyone else find it subpar that CCS offers only kindergarten colors? Seems very out of step with the rest of the industry. I'm not interested in a carnival tent in the outdoors. How about the usual coyote brown, green tea, camo, burnt Orange, olive green.....?" They have brown. I’ve found my green 1.1 very pleasant. |
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fadersup |
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HowardSprague |
Blue Water rope |
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MikeinMpls |
Blackdogyak: "PS....does anyone else find it subpar that CCS offers only kindergarten colors? Seems very out of step with the rest of the industry. I'm not interested in a carnival tent in the outdoors. How about the usual coyote brown, green tea, camo, burnt Orange, olive green.....?" I've used both subdued colors like you mention, and the brighter colored cordage. My thought has been that the brighter colors would reduce my tendency to be horse-collared by tarp cords as I walk around camp. However, I have found that tarp cords tend to be out of the way, more in the trees (at least for me) and not really in my path about camp. That said, I use the brighter colors for my clothesline, which always lies in wait to decapitate me. Mike |
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mags459 |
I do like a single ridge line, i use a hook on one end and a loop alien on the running end. Awesome tensioner. I then have Prussics for the tarp. All is 3/32 line. For the guy outs i tie what I was told was a tarp knot. I have know idea what it is but you twist overhand and grab the main line from the tarp and stake it down. Beats hardware, free and weighs nothing. I have some Dutch that now sit in a box. |
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Captn Tony |
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butthead |
Far as the photo, which I got some flak over from another member, the black bag with cordage also has a 12x14 CCS tarp in it. The green bag has a 10x12 CCS and is for size comparison. Most times this get broken down to a tarp needed cordage and some hawdware and carried in my pack. butthead |
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AdmAckbar13 |
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spud |
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butthead |
butthead |
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Lawnchair107 |
You use a truckers hitch as your first knot on your ridgeline? I guess Im confused why the truckers hitch is being compared to a siberian. |
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Savage Voyageur |
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cyclones30 |
Or if the ridgeline happens to be about head high somewhere. |
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MidwestFirecraft |
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boonie |
Lawnchair107: "BH, +1 I use the Siberian Hitch for the anchor end, but that's all . . . |
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Argo |
butthead: " My Aquaquest Defender is over 7 lbs. This beast goes on motorized camping trips only! I use the Siberian as my anchor, feed the standing end through the loops and use a trucker's knot at the other end. This is all done at 10'-12' off the ground for each end point of the ridgeline. The standing end used to tighten the trucker's knot is usually thrown over a tall branch to ensure it's on a close enough plain with the ridgeline when hauling the tarp up. I just don't see 1/8" rope in this role. I have to wrap it around my waist and really lean into it. It's one solid ridgeline when it's done. As you can see it there's not a lot of adjacent trees for the kinds of setups in your photos. But I am curious to know if you still think I'm overdoing it with the rope after what I've explained. I've just used this climbing rope because I have it and the tarp is such a beast. I haven't critically thought it out from a scientific standpoint. |
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butthead |
The yellow corner anchor is loop to loop at the tarp and a truckers hitch at the tree anchor. The anchor is loose around the tree trunk and can be raised up and down as needed, without untying, tightened or loosened via the truckers hitch. I compared the use of a different knot in the same situation. Sometimes I will use a loose bowline loop around the tree with the truckers hitch at the tarps corner loop. Again the loose bowline around the tree can be mover up and down the trunk for height adjustment and the truckers hitch to adjust the tightness of the setup. When I do use a ridge-line the cord goes thru the loops except for the perimeter where prusik's are handy, anchors for the ridge-line are again a truckers hitch on one side and a loose bowline on the other. Far as needing a heavier cord for a ridge or such with large tarps here is a 15x15 setup using all 1/8th inch cordage. There are as many was to set a tarp as skinning a cat. Old school terminology yes but that is me! butthead |
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Jaywalker |
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boonie |
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butthead |
Most times I can use a paddle blade to push up the anchor loops or pull them lower. butthead |
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mschi772 |
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unshavenman |
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BWCAgoer |
@butthead what is all the hard wear for? Can you link to the S biners you use to connect the prusik line to the edge enter loop of the tarp? |
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Argo |
Butthead mentioned using a paddle for elevation on the ridgeline endpoints. That's where the Siberian hitch excels as a ridgeline anchor point. You can elevate your anchor point as high as you want as long as you leave enough rope from your tag end to reach from the ground for a quick release. A theme commonly mention is about the infinite number of variations in tarp erection. But I would posit there should be some rules: 1) Unless you are using a knot that deliberately jams - like a bowline, knots should never jam. 2) Whenever possible, tarp knots should have a one-pull release. 3) Never let anyone near your ropes that doesn't understand rules 1 and 2. :) |
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plander |
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Lawnchair107 |
Argo: "Bowline anchor is fine when you are low enough to reach it. This is great. Unspoken truth |
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Savage Voyageur |
MidwestFirecraft: "I won't let 550 paracord anywhere near my tarps or hammocks. I am a huge fan of 3/16 to 1/4 Dyneema for the ridgeline and Zing-it for the tie-outs. The yellow rope that comes with the tarp is decent, but has more stretch than I care for. The Dyneema ridge line has no stretch and 50 feet weighs very little. " Totally agree with your point on using paracord for hammocks. But if Dan from CCS uses 450 cord for his tarp lines then that’s good enough for me. |
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unshavenman |
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AdmAckbar13 |
They're pricey but I've had my original Dutch ridgeline for 5 or 6 years and it's still in fantastic shape. Dutchware Gear Continuous Ridgeline |
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MidwestFirecraft |
Savage Voyageur: "MidwestFirecraft: "I won't let 550 paracord anywhere near my tarps or hammocks. I am a huge fan of 3/16 to 1/4 Dyneema for the ridgeline and Zing-it for the tie-outs. The yellow rope that comes with the tarp is decent, but has more stretch than I care for. The Dyneema ridge line has no stretch and 50 feet weighs very little. " Yellow Poly Cord I'm not saying this to be a smart ass because 450 cord may be poly cord but I am not familiar with it. When I refer to paracord I mean 550 cord and from the link above Dan states it is not the same as paracord. I think it works well, but certainly has more stretch than Zing-it. As a side note I started using a carabiner on the standing end of the rope. You simple clip it over the ridgeline. Super easy adjustment with no knots. I then use a truckers hitch on the working end. With Dyneema you can get it tight rope tight! |
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TipsyPaddler |
AdmAckbar13: "If you're interested in using a continuous ridgeline on your tarps, I've had fantastic luck with these over the years. It's incredibly fast and easy to set up. +1 I use these for my hammock tarps and CCS tarps. I like the soft shackle/prusik connectors. Simple and light weight. |
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butthead |
butthead |
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TuscaroraBorealis |
cyclones30: "I like the reflective rope that you can get with the CCS tarp. " Just be aware that glass is what is used to make the cordage 'reflective'. Not saying it shouldn't be used but, just be aware that it could eventually cut through loops. You may want to tie some small regular cordage loops to heavily used loops on the tarp. |
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MidwestFirecraft |
TuscaroraBorealis: "Just be aware that glass is what is used to make the cordage 'reflective'. Not saying it shouldn't be used but, just be aware that it could eventually cut through loops. You may want to tie some small regular cordage loops to heavily used loops on the tarp." I know Dan has stated this before, but every manufacturer I have contacted said they do not use glass and it would not cut through. I tend to believe they have changed as Big Agnes etc. includes these with there tents and when you run your fingers up and down the line they are not sharp like they used to be. |
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moose |
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Lawnchair107 |
cycle003: Agreed. Anytime I am using Zing-it/ Lash-it cord I am 100% using a quick release knot. You’ll really love the siberian hitch! |
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cycle003 |
As far as rope goes, anything with nylon, including 550 paracord, will stretch noticeably. The high strength UHMW ropes, like amsteel will have low stretch. I don’t really like those braids for knots, especially in small diameter. Tying and untying knots in Zing-It types ropes is not ideal. The hammock community has a ton of neat hardware, although I just haven’t been able to get used to hardware instead of knots. For tarps, I like sheath core type cord whether it’s polyester or UHMW. Lawson Equipment has some pretty good cord in both Dyneema and polyester. CCS cordage has been polyester and doesn’t stretch nearly as much as paracord. (I’m also not familiar with 450.) For very light cord, zpacks has 1.3mm z-line core-sheath cord (they also have “slick” 1.2 mm and 2 mm braided). The small cord have >200 lbs of breaking strength, but it’s hard to pull on cord that thin, so I usually use it sparingly or with small tarps, like when backpacking. Also, even if the reflective tracers are not glass, they are much more abrasive than the fibers. I no longer trust 2 mm reflective cord for tight truckers hitches because I’ve sawed right through the line more than once. I only use non-reflective rope on the web loops to prolong the webbing and tie rope loops at various locations. After awhile, you can see where the rope loops have been abraded. I also use non-reflective cord for the ridge line. It’s impossible to know how much it matters, but I tend to trust Dan Cooke’s advice when it comes to tarps. |
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Argo |
goaljohnbill: "MidwestFirecraft: ... You still need to knot the carabiner to the cord. Why not just tie a permanent bowline at the standing end, come around the tree and feed a bite through and secure it with a toggle (stick). Less weight and less hardware. |
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goaljohnbill |
MidwestFirecraft: ... This /\ although if you aim for tight rope tight make sure you have a heavy enough biner. We werent paying attention one of the 1st times we did it and streched the standing end carabiner open from over tightening the truckers hitch. Had to get one of the spares off a boat to fix it. I have a home built sil 10*12 in a ridgeline stuff sack with ~65' of 1/8" amsteel for the ridge and permanently attached zing it for corner ties and prussiks. The standing end carabiner is permanently on the rope and sits outside of the stuff sack. |
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fadersup |
BWCAgoer: "Planning to get the 10x14 CCS tarp 1.1oz. SIberian hitch is a slip knot, so you can throw the working end up over a tree branch, tie the knot and then cinch it so your anchor point it now up at the branch level. Be sure to leave enough line hanging off the knot in reach to untie. Or a loop you can untie with a stick as shown at the end of this video, |
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tomo |
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Argo |
I thought I had my tarping down. I had good knots and good technique that I learned over the years from Youtube. But none of the videos ever talked about rope. They mostly seem to use paracord and I went along with the crowd. But I checked out some Dynema and Zingit rope after reading about it here and it's excellent stuff. Maybe a bit less supple than para but stronger, lighter, and doesn't absorb water. My Kayak rack that I've had for years came with sections of this awesome blue tie-down rope. I always liked this cord and thought it would be great for tarping but never knew what it was. Now I think it's the famous Amsteel Blue. I though it was just the typically average stuff you generally get with equipment where ropes are included. Now thanks to BWCA.com I realize what it is. The battle now is to actually find this stuff in Canada. We generally don't have the variety and abundance of gear you guys in the States get. And when we do find it, it's always way more expensive :( I'm also looking forward to not rigging the ridgeline through the end loops on my large 15 x 15 tarp and saving those only for the Prussic connection in case we're visited by inclement weather. Beats lowering the tarp and dealing with the ridgeline and all the attendant tie-downs. I'm still a knot guy. I fail to understand the allure of the rope hardware. I could tie a hitch or a tension knot quicker than rigging these doohickeys and its fewer things to carry or lose. Thanks all. |
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Lawnchair107 |
Argo: I'm still a knot guy. I fail to understand the allure of the rope hardware. I could tie a hitch or a tension knot quicker than rigging these doohickeys and its fewer things to carry or lose. I agree, I love my knots. But in all, all my hardware that goes onto my tarp tieouts and ridgeline stay onto my tieouts and ridgeline. No extra pieces, no missing hardware. They all get tied and wrapped around the famous hair braid that stays onto the tarp. My only problem was- associated with the truckers hitch, was the rope abrasion that happens when you really crank down the tension. Argo, have you dealt/ seen this? This was my only reasoning to buying hardware. Well that, and dealing with 1.75 mm lash it can get tricky sometimes. My 2 cents. |
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ODoyle |
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Argo |
Lawnchair107: "Argo: I'm still a knot guy. I fail to understand the allure of the rope hardware. I could tie a hitch or a tension knot quicker than rigging these doohickeys and its fewer things to carry or lose. I haven't used it enough to have an answer for you on the trucker's knot. I did wonder about that too. But the contact point changes every time. Perhaps others can help. On another site I did see someone wondering about the abrasion issue with hardware. If someone can settle that question, I would be happy to use a good piece of hardware to save the rope. As far as the rabbit hole goes, splicing is not on my radar at the moment. But I'm sure we all know that gear obsession can eventually take you places you never imagined :) |
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portagedog09 |
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Saberboys |
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unshavenman |
Saberboys: "What length is everyone using for the ridgeline? I recently purchased one of Dan's 15x15 tarps and am wondering if I use the supplied rope for the ridgeline at 80 feet, or cut it into 4-20 foot sections for the tie outs and add a new ridgeline. I am thinking that a 50 foot ridgeline may not be enough in certain circumstances? " Go with an 80' ridgeline using Dan's cordage and add additional 20' hanks at each corner. |
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Argo |
Saberboys: "What length is everyone using for the ridgeline? I recently purchased one of Dan's 15x15 tarps and am wondering if I use the supplied rope for the ridgeline at 80 feet, or cut it into 4-20 foot sections for the tie outs and add a new ridgeline. I am thinking that a 50 foot ridgeline may not be enough in certain circumstances? " Discaimer: I have previously offered advice on this thread only to discover that some of my more learned colleagues have more informed advice. If you suffer from headaches, diarrhea or vomiting, call you doctor. Cheques will not be honoured. You're right. You will hit the odd site where 50' will be too short. I would stick with 80'. Joining rope along a ridgeline presents issues related to the location of your sheet-bend (joining knot). It can interfere with tarp placement along your ridgeline if you run it through the loops, or impact the location of your prussic loops or tension knot - particularly the trucker's hitch. There are solutions around these issues. But it's an unnecessary wrench into the gears in my opinion. |
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Lawnchair107 |
tomo: "Hope you like them! " I’ve been playing around with these for about a week now. Awesome little piece of gear. Thank you! I now have these attached to my ridgelines on my tarp and lean. Not only are they smaller than my mitten hooks, but also a little more secure than using a prussik knot on those slippery dyneema cords. |
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boonie |
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Saberboys |
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Saberboys |
boonie: "I'd be interested in your experience with the loop aliens. So the standard Loop Alien gear does not fit Amsteel (7/64th), it is designed for use with Lash/Zing It (1.75mm). My mistake for not looking at it more closely. They do make an XL version of their hardware that will work with the larger diameter Amsteel. I also found that Nama Claws also are designed for the smaller diameter Zing/Lash It, again my fault for not doing my research. Loop Alien seems to be a good product overall, and I am happy with them. I am rethinking using Amsteel since most hardware doesn't fit it. I also attempted a few different types of cordage for prussik knots to tie onto an Amsteel ridgeline. All of them slipped except for Dan's CCS yellow poly. Maybe I am just not that good at tying prussiks? but it is very slippery rope. Long story, shortened. I like having the option for using hardware like the Loop Alien and Nama Claws, they both serve their purpose and have their place, but I also like knowing the ridgeline cordage will work with, and hold a variety of knots. |
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boonie |
They should make that clear. I got some ZingIt/LashIt, but was not happy with it for tying knots, or more specifically, for untying them. |
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Argo |
Saberboys: "boonie: "I'd be interested in your experience with the loop aliens. For your Prussiks, trying doing an extra loop or two. And make sure they are snug. That should take care of it. |
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Lawnchair107 |
Tarp Hardware- Dutchware |