I'm a Boy Scout leader from California who will be taking a group of kids to the BWCA next summer.

We will be planning our route based on fishing.

Our main target fish will be Walleye but we also want to catch Pike and Musky.

None of us have ever been to the BWCA so any advice on lakes, routes, and fishing gear is appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve

I believe East Pike is the only BW lake that contains muskies.

quote mr.barley: "I believe East Pike is the only BW lake that contains muskies."

Bummer, I was looking forward to catching one.

Walleye will be on the menu though!

Kids under 16 do not need a license, but your keepers are only the limit of the leader's license. So if you have 2 leaders with licenses, you have 2 limits of keepers for cooking.

I usually have our only leader's license, and with 7 kids fishing and 1 limit, we still have enough fish for dinner.

There are so many good routes - check the trip reports for easier portaging (or fewer), and fishing. You can read many reports detailing the good fishing. In this fishing forum you'll see that most successful walleye hunters are using live bait. My kids and I have yet to try that, but we do well with rapalas and rattletraps.

we catch lots of pike on Splash and Ensign, but it's crowded. When are you going?

Welcome WestCoast1. Where in California are you from?
I am aware of only 3 or 4 of us on this site that hail from the Golden State. It would be nice to someday have enough for our own wing night.

Are you using an outfitter? Are you going out of Ely, the Gunflint, Sawbill or Crane Lake? Flying to MSN or Duluth? Few Muskies in the BWCA....Lots of Northerns & Walleye & smallmouth bass.

west-
You'll have a blast. If I were you, I'd start in right now hyping smallmouth bass as the premier fish in canoe country. They are much easier to catch than walleyes (usually), they taste great, and they fight like mad. Walleyes can cause some real headaches for even the most experienced fishermen, so if I were fishing with young people who I wanted to have success, I would modify expectations.
OK, I know, that's not what you asked. Review this board using the search feature to get the skinny on walleyes. I like a slip bobber and a leech.

jeriatric,

I'm in Citrus Heights, a suburb east of Sacramento. Where are you and what is a "wing night"?

Dbldppr1250,

Thanks for the fishing regs info, seems strange that we can't have as many limits as we have kids though (?), not that we'd kill that many. We'll just be taking a few for dinners.

lundojam,

We have small mouth here, not that I don't like them, we just want to target a species that we can't fish for here and that has a reputation for being awesome table fair!

fishguts,

I am screening outfitters as I type. I just today got an awesome package from Canadian Waters. I am also talking with Cliff Wold. Both are out of Ely.

WestCoast1,
Check out Jordan's Outfitters in Ely, Mark the Owner is a great guy and they do a wonderful job. Great Equipment at reasonable rates and great service......I'm in Brookings Oregon, about a 7 hour drive north of you.

Use the 'maps' icon @ left and click MDNR Lakefinder (Minnesota Dept. Natural Recources). It usually tells what fish are in a lake. For a group of Scouts I'd guess the fishing would be good all over. Smallies and Pike are easy and abundant on most lakes. Walleye too, I s'pose....just trickier for me. Will you be coming out of the big scout camp up there or outfittong? The outfitter can help with this info really well, and help map a route.

fishguts,

Thanks, I will check them out. Sure is a competitive business isn't it!

overthehill,

I have been on their site! I have heard Walleye is an awesome eating fish.

quote WestCoast1: "seems strange that we can't have as many limits as we have kids though (?), not that we'd kill that many. We'll just be taking a few for dinners."

Nonresidents under age 16 can purchase a nonresident license and then can possess their own limit of fish.

WestCoast1,
I live in Coarsegold, east of Fresno and on the way to the south gate of Yosemite National Park. By pure coincidence, so does Willys53, also on this site.
Wing Night is the name given to local and regional gatherings of board members. I guess they ate chicken wings at the first one. This weekend was the First Annual Wing Night for the entire membership. As a Californian, I could not easily attend. In the future, I may make the effort, easy or not (I am retired and could make a multipurpose trip).

WestCoast1, you can buy a license for younger ones if you want to keep more fish. Add a license if you don't think you'll have enough keepers with only a leader license (the appetites of the youngsters can be pretty incredible).

If the young ones want to buy a license, make sure they have their SS# along.

quote cowdoc: "If the young ones want to buy a license, make sure they have their SS# along."

Great tip, I would have never thought to add that to my information sheet...

For Fishing with young people.

1: Search for the TGO Method of live bait fishing for walleye. Maybe add on a slip bobber. Takes some patients that kids may struggle with.

2: For Pike take shiny things that the kids can cast and real in.

3: Don't discount the small mouth like Lundojam said. If that is what is biting go with it.

This trip will be a blast. Be careful the BWCA will get into your blood and you will have to go back every year forever.

Lazypaw,

I have nothing against smallys and will throw them in a frying pan if need be.

I'm looking forward to a freshwater fish that can bite you back-so are the boys!

I'll search for that walleye method.

WC1 - Here is the TGO method. I use it all the time. It is very effective and works well for walleyes , smallies and you can catch northern also. Spool up with 8 LB. test line , Trilene XL or XT is a good choice. Tie on a # 6 or # 8 hook. Put a leech on the hook. Put a small split shot on the line about 18 - 24 inches above the hook. Cast out and let sink to the bottom. Retrieve it back slowly. You will feel the fish pick up the bait and swim away. Set the hook and enjoy.Fish in 5 - 20 feet of water near rocks and you should catch something. Good luck !

quote WestCoast1: "Lazypaw,


I have nothing against smallys and will throw them in a frying pan if need be.


I'm looking forward to a freshwater fish that can bite you back-so are the boys!


I'll search for that walleye method."

Northern have lots of sharp nasty teeth too, just be careful of the "Y" bones when you are eating them! Oh, and the razor gill on both. THEY HURT!

quote Amok: "Northern have lots of sharp nasty teeth too, just be careful of the "Y" bones when you are eating them! Oh, and the razor gill on both. THEY HURT!"

Just remind your scouts that the mouth of a northern can be a nasty place, if they aren't careful.

Here's a great boning tutorial on how to remove the Y bone from a northern. I've been using this technique for about 15 years, and have yet to have a bone in my meal of northern.

Removing Y bone from northern

I'm gonna echo izzy don't cast and reel back, slow is the key. If they keep casting and reeling in make sure you have a swivel on or you'll end up with line twist.

Big Northerns will hit large soft baits and they last awhile. With all the boyz it's hard to bring in alot of shiners for all of them. Steel leader is a must cause even the small ones have some sharp teeth and will cut a line in a heartbeat. You won't catch anything else with the leader on but that's the price you pay. Most fish are leader shy, Northern are a very aggressive fish and will hit just about anything.

Hope this helps.


JB

I have been comparing your pike and muskys to our ocean fish, the ling cod to the boys.

They have been warned!

The fishing tip is how I fish trout here.

Thanks for the tips.

JB - You said use large soft plastic baits for pike, on the bottom? Are you talking about big 5-9 inch soft plastic minnows baits like Wild eyes or something like that? Curious how you're fishing them?

WestCoast1,

Have you considered taking your Scouts through Northern Tier National High Adventure? Northern Tier is one of three National High Adventure programs (the others are Philmont and Sea Base).

We've taken our Scouts through Northern Tier both on canoe trips and in the winter (Okpik). They have done a great job delivering the program to the kids before, during, and after their voyage experience. Part of their method is providing a trained staff member during the trip called an "Interpreter" who will mentor your Scouts on the skills they will use and deliver the Scouting program.

Usually they have opens in the summer, even if you have not called in on the April 1st reservation date. Here's the availability sheet: http://bit.ly/d4H5Ht FYI, had success getting a date that was not listed as available by calling (218-365-4811).

You might want to check out their booklet by the late Bob Cary (Fishing merit badge author and program supporter "Tips for fishing from Canoe": http://bit.ly/98PjnI

If you have Scouts who have already gone to Philmont and Sea Base they can also receive the "Triple Crown Award" after their Northern Tier voyage. http://www.holry.org/triplecrownaward.php

MooseLk1,

Yes I have, that's how I found the BWCA.

We were scheduled to go to Philmont this year but not enough boys wanted to go.

The one thing BSA does not have going for it is cost Vs. quality of gear that outfitters offer for BWCA.

My son really wants to go to Sea Base but that starts at $1000+ without extras like air fair.

Someone else here asked if we were driving or flying, no way am I going that far with 7 boys!

We just got back from Moab Utah (Arches National Park, Colorado River Whitewater Rafting, and on the way home Great Basin National Park in Nevada). 16 hours in a car was more than I'll ever want to to again...

Westcoast1, You sure have an ambitious troup!! I was a scout Master for the Coarsegold troup for several years. We did alot of local backpack trips but nothing out of state. I'm really impressed with your commitment to the program. However I understand trying to drive 7 scouts 4000 miles would be a deal breaker for me also!!! If your scouts need any fishing equipment give me a list. I have mostly poles and some reels and misc stuff. They are welcome to it.

Willys53,

Nice to know I'm not the only one from the "Land of Fruits and Nuts" (although Minnesota did elect Al Franken to the Senate so they obviously have their share of nuts too...)!

Ever sense I took over our troops HAT program I have targeted things the boys may only do once in their life times.

Given that we have a lot we can do here makes it a tuff sell sometimes which is why I have such a small group.

Thanks for the offer of the gear but I think we have that under control, I would like to know what you take for particular species though.

So is that 53 a Jeep, wagon, or a pickup?

I love Willys trucks!

Thanks,

Steve

>The one thing BSA does not have going for it is cost Vs. quality of gear that outfitters offer for BWCA.

I am not sure what you mean by this as the price for a reputable quality outfitter vs. Northern Tier is very close in price. As far as gear, most of it was new. When we were told about used gear being sold we found out many outfitters buy it.

The biggest difference is Northern Tier delivers a program, it is not an outfitter. Philmont Scout Ranch, like Northern Tier is a program. Instead of going to Philmont you could go backpacking next door to the ranch in Carson National Forest. However, why would you do this? It's because you go to Philmont for the program!

Westcoast,

I would definitely cross Musky off your list. Even if there were more lakes in the BWCA that had them your chances of catching a musky are very slim. They call the musky "A fish of a thousand casts" because they are very elusive and very hard to catch even for the musky savvy angler. To think you can just go out with a group of boys and start catching this species of fish is well... a bit naive. Not saying that you wouldn't accidentally land one - happens all the time, but to target this species is very difficult. Some guys can go weeks without landing a single fish.

Your best bet is to target Northern Pike and Small Mouth Bass - as others have mentioned. Much easier to catch and you will have a great time doing so as both fish put up a battle. Good luck!!!

MooseLk1,

I'm not knocking NT but from my research it is more expensive with a lot of extra costs. I'm no expert though and, anyone, feel free to correct me. Being 1800 miles away makes it tuff to fully evaluate so I can only go with what I've found out.

I do like the idea of a guide (Interpreter) but not at the cost of one of the boys not going.

I haven't seen anything on the "program" side off NT though, Philmont clearly spells theirs out. I was of the impression that once you plot a course you’re on your own.

I'm open minded though, if any of you have done the BSA Northern Tier please feel free to chime in.

PikeMonger,

Bummer of a report but consistent with what I've been told.

I hope to slop luck into one.

Thanks,

Steve

WestCoast1,For Walleye I usually have pretty good luck with leaches on a Lindy rig or just a hook and sinker as explained in as earlier post by Izzy. A jig usually white with a yellow double tail body works well too. Last year leaches didn't work as well as nightcrawlers on the same lindy rig with a crawler harness. This also worked well with Smallies. I also take an assortment of small repallas, perch colored. I agree with the rest pike are really fun to catch and will keep the crew into fishing. A five of diamonds is my favorite for pike. I think the secret is you don't have to take your whole tackle box. You won't use 90% of the stuff. I also do allot of trolling till I find the fish. You probably already know to look for reefs, sunken islands, etc.
The 53 Willys I had was a pickup. I used it here as a ranch truck. It was a good truck till something broke and you had to spend hours on the computer trying to find that part!! On the fishing end, this forum is full of people with a lot more local experience than I have. Every time I read it I will learn something new! Larry

Sorry Steve didn't mean to come across that harsh but I wanted to prepare you so you and the boys aren't dissappointed. I use to fish for Muskies all the time here but gave it up because I would spend days on end without even a follow. Besides the gear you need for this type of fish is really expensive. I now fish mainly for northerns as they can be caught easily with a heavy duty bass rod and a leader (Very important).

Hope you guys have a great time.

PikeMonger,

Harsh???

Not at all, if anything you confirmed what I have already been told.

I would much rather someone tell me the truth then a "fish story". I'm coming a long way with boys that will be looking at me when they aren't catching something that I told them was there!

I 100% appreciate yours, and the others honesty.

Thanks,

Steve

WestCoast1,
Don't forget we elected Jesse Ventura......

I agree with the group to set your sights on Northern and Smallies. Frankly even if you are targeting Walleyes you will probably catch more smallies they hang out in the same types of places. I would also really emphasis to be very careful if you do catch northern. If you put a thumb on their lip as you would a bass you will have a bloody thumb! They have hundreds of tiny razor sharp teeth. In fact when you catch one you might look at tier mouths and think that does not look so bad, but your fingers will tell the tale if you are not very careful! Defiantly take a pliers or multi-tool, at least one per canoe, to remove hooks, you don't want your kids being tempted to stick tier fingers in a mouth just to push that hook back a little bit. This is why many have suggested steel leaders also.

Have fun and if you can get the y bones out of the northern as an earlier post gave directions IMHO I find that they are almost as good eating as a walleye and much better than a smallie. You might not think so as they are a little slimy, but if you can get them filleted and skinned and battered up they are surprisingly good eating.

quote Sierra1: "WestCoast1,
Don't forget we elected Jesse Ventura......"

I always liked that t-shirt that said something like "my governor can beat up your governor" I guess maybe California can say the same thing. how about a cage fight? Pay per view proceeds go to the BS troop.

I use one of these to remove hooks. They've got a stainless steel one, too. And one of these. Both come in handy at times!

For Pike I also use a spreader to hold there mouth open if the hooks are in deeper. One per canoe.

I love Jesse Ventura! He says it as it is. I think he's even made movies with our Gov.

I have shown the kids photos of the teeth muskys and northern's have so any "memory enhancement exercises" will be fully on them.

And we'll have a first aid kit...

WestCoast,

One more bit of advice about Northerns. It may be a good idea to pick up a pair of fish grips to hold their jaw open while you remove the hook. These especially come in handy when you are fishing with lures that have trebble hooks. Northerns love to shake their heads when you least expect it and the last thing you want is one of those hooks lodged into your hand. I always release the tension on the reel once the fish is netted so that the hooks are no longer spring loaded. Very Important!!!!

Here is a good inexpensive set that works well. The nice thing about them is that they have a wider area that clamps down on the fish's mouth. More expensive models that I've used are very narrow and tend to puncture right through their jaws. These float too!!!!

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0012971013780a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Products&QueryText=fish+grip&sort=all&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23

quote PikeMonger: "Westcoast,


I would definitely cross Musky off your list. Even if there were more lakes in the BWCA that had them your chances of catching a musky are very slim. They call the musky "A fish of a thousand casts" because they are very elusive and very hard to catch even for the musky savvy angler. To think you can just go out with a group of boys and start catching this species of fish is well... a bit naive. Not saying that you wouldn't accidentally land one - happens all the time, but to target this species is very difficult. Some guys can go weeks without landing a single fish.

Close, they're actually called the fish of 10,000 casts. Yeah I agree you would have a tough time catching one in the BWCA. If you do fish for muskies at one point, having a lot of people would help (doesn't matter too much if they're young or inexperienced at fishing) as your typically looking for reaction strikes. It doesn't take much finesse to use bucktails or some other musky lures, just keep at a fast speed for those reaction strikes. When fishing for musky more covered water=more chances of catching a fish, so it can be better to have some more people fishing.

quote WestCoast1: "Willys53,
Nice to know I'm not the only one from the "Land of Fruits and Nuts" (although Minnesota did elect Al Franken to the Senate so they obviously have their share of nuts too...)!
Steve"

Easy there. Franken has turned out to be a pretty decent senator, unlike what was feared. Certainly, if someone like Reagan could emerge from Hollyweird, so could Franken.

Oops forgot a 0 - I did mean 10,000 casts.

boy scout leader from california? Good luck.

quote wishiwasthere: "boy scout leader from Californians? Good luck."

You don't think Californian's can handle it?

WC1,
I have to chime in here and add that if you want/need to add northern and smallies to the list instead of just walleye, I strongly recommend topwater baits in 15' or less. The surface strike is exciting for everyone, and my fishing parties have ALWAYS had success this way. Use plastic frogs, poppers, or walk-the-dog baits. They all work. Swimbaits rigged for shallow running are also good.

Hey! WestCoast1!
Don't take the kidding too seriously, these Midwest guys really have no clue! The West is the Best!.....except of course the Canoe Country.

Hey Pat,

Water off a ducks back bro!

Steve