Sorry to be a hassle.

I've never used a fishfinder before, so I have no clue how they work. I've come really close to buying one the past few years for our annual BWCA trip, and haven't.

I've read and re-read a lot of the posts concerning fishfinders. I'm not an engineer, just a lowly Veterinarian (with three kids and a bunch of other hobbies), and probably couldn't cobble together too many of modifications listed in the forums.

We're heading to Alpine this year, we couldn't catch a walleye if it was in our tent, I'd like to change that. (I started by reading walleye 101).

I'm not looking for the worlds best fishfinder, just something to show me depth and a few humps and bumps...

Saying that:

Lowrance X4 portable -- comes in its own bag, uses D batteries, is 100 MHz (does that mean the batteries last longer?).

I like the idea of just putting the transducer in the canoe puddle -- will this work?

Am I making a mistake buying this? I don't have really any time, inclination or skill to fuddle with it -- will I regret this purchase?

Love this forum.

BTW -- Watermelon/Pearl Yum dinger is the best bass bait ever invented. = )

I use the x4 portable. It is a basic unit which is fine by me. I just need to read depth and find structure. I can get a weeks worth of use out of the batteries, and that is running the unit 10 hours a day. Yes it is on the heavy side, but someday I will switch it over to run on smaller batteries.... I was going to do it a few years ago, just haven't yet. This is a must have for me.

I just saw that Cabelas has the lowarance mark 4 hdi with down scan combo on sale for $180.00. I think this would be an awesome choice due to the GPS function included. You can purchase the Navionics chip for it and you will have a unit that is built for tripping in the bwca. I think I am going to go with this Myself this year instead of carrying a separate GPS and sonar.

Not a mistake. Buy it or one similar and you won't be sorry. You won't have any trouble figuring it out; it's easier than a graduate degree for sure.

The best detectors for canoe tripping are the basic units. The X-4 is a basic unit and it should work well for you. You still need to mount the detector. I think that unit comes with a suction cup to stick to the side of the canoe. I would suggest that in addition to the suction cup you try shooting through the hull.

My brother bought the portable x-4 two years ago. While it doesn't have any all the bells and whistles it is a great option if your looking for something to take out of the box, put batteries in and use. While the "portable" option doesn't make it any lighter it does come with the battery holder and its own carrying case.

Given your needs, I agree with everyone else that a basic unit is your best bet. The X4 would be a good fit. I've also heard good things about entry level Humminbirds and Garmins.

The Mark 4 HDI mentioned earlier is a great unit but is heavier and consumes at least 2x as much power. If you go this route just make sure you're getting one with a transducer that works for both traditional sonar and down imaging (4 frequencies will be listed for the transducer), otherwise you might as well be buying a much less expensive, and less power hungry regular sonar unit. The GPS can be nice if you're base camping (and have lots of batteries), but not that big of a deal if you're moving around a lot.

As far as batteries go, I found a couple of threads on another forum recommending some blue li-ion batteries from China. They're high capacity (9800 mAh), smaller, and much lighter per mAH than a traditional battery or AA's. Do a search for li-ion 12v on eBay and you'll find them. Last I checked they're about $30 for 9800 mAh.

I also have the x4 portable...heres what I've found:

As far as mounting the transducer, heres an easy tip. It comes as two pieces held together by a bolt...the transducer piece, and the suctioncup piece. Instead of assembling them as intended if you were going to mount on a vertical surface (transom), rotate the top piece 180 and reassemble to enable mounting on a horizontal surface (canoe bottom). Now the suctioncup will be able to be mounted on the bottom of the canoe, and easily removed by reaching under while seated in the canoe.

Here is what works for me. Lowrance Elite 4 with ice ducer taped to a piece of aluminum from home depot, it's bent at a 90 and clamped under my tite-loc rod holder. It actually slides in and out perfectly for high speed travel. A 1" ram clamps right onto the round thwardt with no ball needed. The GPS is great to have when fishing for Walleyes etc. I run it off of a 10 AA battery pack that hangs with extra chord and extra batteries in a little thwardt bag. I get a solid two days of use out of 10 coppertops.

Check out the HDI 7 someone mounted on a blue box for canoe fishing for sale on mnpls Craig's list . Now that would be cool. I know weight and battery life would make some of the minimalist guys here shake their heads in disbelief.

Arlo
If you can find Duracell Quantum they will last you about 21% longer than copper top. They are more expensive per battery but about the same per hour of operations. If you cant find Quantum I believe the copper tops are the best Alkaline battery.

Here's a site that has taken a comprehensive approach to comparing many brands of AA batteries. The low current draw results are probably most applicable, unless you're running a bells-and-whistles fishfinder.

The graphs for cost vs. mAh are particularly interesting for those on a budget (such as myself).

Dhanson
Now I got to go to Ikea and buy some batteries to test.
Thanks for the web site.

quote wvevans: " I just saw that Cabelas has the lowarance mark 4 hdi with down scan combo on sale for $180.00. I think this would be an awesome choice due to the GPS function included. You can purchase the Navionics chip for it and you will have a unit that is built for tripping in the bwca. I think I am going to go with this Myself this year instead of carrying a separate GPS and sonar. "

That unit is a power hog, you better take plenty of batteries!:)

quote mgraber: "

quote wvevans: " I just saw that Cabelas has the lowarance mark 4 hdi with down scan combo on sale for $180.00. I think this would be an awesome choice due to the GPS function included. You can purchase the Navionics chip for it and you will have a unit that is built for tripping in the bwca. I think I am going to go with this Myself this year instead of carrying a separate GPS and sonar. "

That unit is a power hog, you better take plenty of batteries!:)"

According to the manual it draws 750 mA compared 75 mA on other detectors. A good set of Lithium batteries should last a good 2 hours. Those batteries are about $2 each and you will need 8 of them. I would guess it will cost about $6/hour to operate.

Magic how long do you think you could you run it off a 12v. Like vexilar battery .

Down imaging is nice for a comparison but I think you would find yourself using the analog sonar 80% of the time.

Wvevans
To get a accurate estimate I would need to know which Vexilar and which battery. I at one time owned a Vexilar boundary waters portable. I never measured the current it drew but I would estimate it was less than 75 ma. While I am making assumptions I will also assume it requires the same voltages as most detectors on the market today which is between 10 and 18 volts.
I will make comparisons to 3 battery setups.
8 Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries in series will supply 3100 mAH above 10 volts. Divide the 3100 mAH by 75 mA= 41 Hours
10 Duracell Copper Top Batteries in series will supply 1900 mAH above 10 Volts. Divide the 1900 by 75 = 25 hours.

8 Duracell Copper Top batteries in series will supply 760 mAH above 10 volts. Divide the 760 by 75 = 10 Hours.
Arlo
I have read others that just love the down imaging. Can you really see the underwater structure like the advertisement? From what I have been able to gather from factory reps is a unit with DownVu draws about 50 mA more than a similar unit without DounVu. Do you have any actual current measurements.

I run down and side imaging on my big boat, I have no idea what the current draw is. Sometimes it shows very little or just wispy lines and the analog graph shows a better picture. At other times it is unbelievable what you can see. Often on the analog it will look like fish and on the down image you can see that it is not. Getting the 'ducer dialed in takes some work though. I would never run the down imaging by itself as I feel the analog graph paints a better overall picture.

Arlo
Thanks Nice to get first hand info.

Last year, a couple of months before my first BW trip I bought a Lowrance X4 (not the portable, so no bag, no big battery) and I spliced in a 10 pack AA batter holder and used Lithium batteries. I mounted the unit on a large clamp to put on the thwart, bought a marine grade suction cup and made my own low-drag ducer mount. All worked great!

I brought it on the trip and barely used it more than fuddling around with it. I have used fish finders before, but never in a canoe. IMHO it was sort of a pain to lug around, mount on the canoe and set up. This year I am honestly considering just leaving it behind, or maybe just selling it to someone who has a little more inspiration than I do.

The area I was in last year (Basswood Falls) was so great for fishing I really didnt need a finder. Everytime I fished I was catching them. But I have a LOT of fishing experience and usually know where to go and what to throw.

Good luck either way and let us know how it all turns out!

Is there a cheap depth finder I could use to just give me bottom structure and depth. This would help in setting the depth of bait with slip bobber. Thanks, Rick

You do not want cheap you want inexpensive. Depends on what you call inexpensive. There are several under $100. I would stick with the better name brands like Humminbird, Lowrance, and Garmin. I would not get color or down scan imaging. Make sure it comes with the transducer. EXAMPLES
Any of them will tell you the depth but I like the ones with 8 levels of gray scale better. I makes easier to tell if the bottom is rock or mud,

Sorry for the hijack, but I'm curious, does a single beam draw less power than a dual beam? Is there much of an advantage to dual beam for canoe/ice fishing use?

I have never done a comparison on comparing current draw. I am not sure of the advantages of dual beam. I believe the higher frequencies are better at seeing fine detail while the lower frequencies are better at finding the bottom in deep water. For the water I fish I am only interested in what is in the top 50 feet so the higher frequency will show me the most detail.

Thanks for all the input -- very helpful. I hope the depthfinder proves useful this summer!!

Does someone have a good reference for how to actually read a fish finder for dummies? I've been using mine with "Fish ID" turned on for years and my girlfriend's dad told me that's not right and I should just have it show the curved lines instead. Something substantial that I could study up on would be great; I don't have many opportunities to actually get out on the water.

TallMatt: Here's one that seems okay, but if you google 'how to use a fish graph,' or 'reading a fish finder,' or the like, you can find some others - some good, some really bad.

Jungro, I really like my Marcum Showdown 2.0. Used it last year on a rented canoe but just recently purchased a canoe for the family. I'm going to build a transducer mount for it and will post pics early this summer when it's complete. The showdown is great for popping ice fishing holes and seems built for the canoe. Just my two cents!

quote MNRider008: "Jungro, I really like my Marcum Showdown 2.0. Used it last year on a rented canoe but just recently purchased a canoe for the family. I'm going to build a transducer mount for it and will post pics early this summer when it's complete. The showdown is great for popping ice fishing holes and seems built for the canoe. Just my two cents!"

Looks like a nice light weight detector. I looked at the manual and see it will run on 6 AA batteries or 12 volts. The manual shows it running 20 hours on 6 AA batteries or 30 hours on a 9 amp 12 volt battery. Please report back after your first trip and give us a report. Let us know how many days you get out of what kind of batteries. Don’t know if I could get use to not having the recent history on the screen.

I'm a real knucklehead when it comes to fishfinders, but what's the difference between the Showdown 2.0 and the Showdown 2.0 'Combo'?

I think the combo pack includes a soft sided pack with a cradle and a setup to plug your troller into a boat battery for use on the ice. Other people have taken this bracket and attached it to a canoe to hold the troller while fishing open water.

Heres a picture.

It sounds like you may have done some side by side comparisons. From a weight and size stand point, which of these basic units has has the canoe tripping advantage? I usually do eight to ten day trips, weight and space are issues. Thanks

Here is the Marcum Showdown mounted on my canoe. I just shoot through the hull. I have yet to burn through 6 AA's on a 5 day trip and I fish a lot when I am up there.

A caution on Marcum showdown 2.0 - i bought one two years ago and rigged it up on my canoe. Used it on knife lake in June and it saw rain a few of the days. The screen clouded and never worked again during the trip. I sent it in to Marcum and they fixed it. Took it on another trip in August and the same thing happened. Needless to say i never mounted it in my canoe last year. Also, Finman had the exact same experience with his new showdown the same year and can vouch for my troubles I am describing. He also sent his in to Marcum and the unit continued to malfunction. In my opinion, stay away from showdowns. Or somehow make sure it doesn't see a drop of water. Its 200 bucks spent that you may regret.

dutchman

dutchman,

That's good to know! Mine did the same thing and I sent it back in to Marcum. They fixed it and thankfully mine has worked fine ever since. That was 3-4 years ago I think.

I didn't realize others have had the same issue. I certainly hope they fixed the problem on their new units!

Magic

I see that the shipping weight is only 1 pound, that's great, why did you guys choose the Marcum unit over Hummingbird, Garmin etc.?

You really can't go wrong with any unit...unless it's a lemon. All will show you depth and mark fish. It really comes down to how much weight, battery life, and what kind of display you want. Some folks like a horizontal graph that shows the history on your display. Others like myself just like to know the depth and if there are fish. The Showdown shows this info vertically. I also like the fact I can mark a fish under the canoe and watch it come up to meet my bait.

I went with the Showdown because it's compact and serves my needs of marking depth and fish. I also let my kids use it when we go ice fishing.

Magic

Looking at replacing a transducer on a cheaper model,traducers cost almost as much as whole units.

Marcum suggested the Showdown should be covered during heavy rains as it is not waterproof.

Magic

quote MagicStik: "Marcum suggested the Showdown should be covered during heavy rains as it is not waterproof."

Had i known that suggestion from Marcum i would have chosen differently. For clarity, when i took it out the second time in August, it did not see rain. It was very humid and we normally store the canoes upside down to keep the dew off our gear. Still had screen and button functionality issues though.

I have had great service from a lowrance x67c thats been used on ten trips over the last 4 years. The showdown replacement has also been trouble free - lowrance mark 4. For me, the draw to the showdown was the reduced battery needs, hence less weight, compared to my current units that we use on my canoes. In the end, i currently feel that reliability is more important than weight when it comes to electronics, and i found out that this is especially true when electronics fail in pretty normal BW weather. Dead gear ends up as dead weight.

Dutchman

This is really helpful! I'm headed down to Cabelas this afternoon armed with a lot of useful information that I would no have had without this forum??

A friend of mine is a writer-fishermen for a well known magazine and is sponsored by Marcum also,he said he is no fan of the showdown.