Hello!

I am new to this forum, but excited to scroll through old posts to learn from you all before our upcoming trip. Thinking early June or early September... starting on a Tuesday to avoid crowds?

It will just be my husband and I with our two young kids, 2.5 & 5 yrs old. We are avid hikers/backpackers so the kids have plenty of experience with logging miles, but they have very little canoe experience. We're looking for easier portages and as much solitude as we could get from a short easy trip... and a sand beach to play on would be amazing (I know, I know, asking for a lot!).

We're looking on the Grand Marais side for a two night basecamp with a day trip. Which of these (or something else entirely?!) would you recommend?

Option 1: EP47 - Poplar - Lizz - Horseshoe - Gaskin (out & back)

Option 2: EP64 - East Bearskin - Moon - Deer - Caribou (out & back)

Option 3: EP38 - Sawbill - Alton - Kelso - Sawbill (Loop)

Option 4: EP36 - Hog Creek - Perent Lake (out & back)

Option 5: something else??

Thanks for any and all advice! (-:

Hi Nikki! Welcome to the board!

I remember the days with two little kids and heading out to the wilderness for adventures. Good stuff! There is another thread listing the places with sandy beaches if you want to search for that. Based on what you wrote, I'll just skip to the recommendations:

1) of the choices you presented, I would pick Lizz (it's the only one on your list I have been too!) It's a simple trip and short portages (although some have plenty of rocks and roots!) but it is a fairly popular route and I can't think of any sandy beaches that I'm aware of at campsites. If you do go this route, you'll find more solitude over towards Pillsbury than you will on Horseshoe or Gaskin, in my opinion.

2) I would suggest EP 39 Baker for simple portages and perhaps fewer people but there are enough people who pass through that I doubt you will feel alone.

There are several other folks who have done BWCA trips with kids the same ages as yours. Mine were all older than that when I moved to the mid-west but we did do plenty of camping at those ages.

Enjoy the planning and I hope you'll report back a successful and enjoyable trip!

I’ve done your options 1, 3, and 4 with my daughters before and agree with Yetijedi that Option 1 Lizz would be my top pick. I also agree that Baker is my “other” choice that’s not on my list. Lizz and Baker are my two favorite EP for trips with kids.

Something I like about Lizz is that if you plan on getting up there the night before entry is to stay in their bunkhouse and then push off right from their beach in the morning. It’s also close to my favorite restaurant The Trail Center

Ask away if you have more questions. There is nothing better than being in the wilderness with your kids. Enjoy.

Thank you for your input! It sounds like Lizz would be a great option for us. We normally love solitude on the hiking trail, but perhaps for our first BWCA trip with young kids it might be nice to see some people every once and a while.

It seems like there are also some interesting side trip options to keep us entertained. I'll have to look into Pillsbury, you're the first person I've heard/read mention going that direction!

ducks: "Something I like about Lizz is that if you plan on getting up there the night before entry is to stay in their bunkhouse and then push off right from their beach in the morning. It’s also close to my favorite restaurant The Trail Center. "

I will look into the bunkhouse. That would make our first day much easier. And the restaurant could be a great reward for all of our hard work afterwords. Thank you for your recommendations!

Does anyone have thoughts about what month is best with kids? I'm leaning towards last weekend in August or first or second weekend of September, but a bit worried about cold/rain.

Nikki: "

Does anyone have thoughts about what month is best with kids? I'm leaning towards last weekend in August or first or second weekend of September, but a bit worried about cold/rain."

Good question. You know your kids best. :) Some advantages about September: cooler temperatures, colors start to change, fewer people, and fewer bugs. Disadvantages, at least from your response: cooler temperatures, wind is more frequent and likely more gusty (in my opinion), and both of those make any rain just a little more difficult to deal with, especially with small children.

I think the timing you are considering isn't nearly the worry of a month later. Plan for any condition and be prepared to adapt and you should be fine. With the Lizz entry you will never be too far from the entry point that you couldn't make it out with a little notice.

Nikki:
Does anyone have thoughts about what month is best with kids? I'm leaning towards last weekend in August or first or second weekend of September, but a bit worried about cold/rain."

There are never guarantees, but if you’re hoping to take advantage of a sandy/beach type site for a little swimming/wading or similar then don’t go too late. Average temps cool considerably by early September and water temps while slower to cool will be on the decline by then. If that is important, I would aim for earlier in August rather than later. There are other factors to consider as well, but that’s one that’s been important for my kids in the past.

I love Pillsbury. It’s my sleeper lake in the area because it doesn’t get much attention so it’s much quieter than Horseshoe/Gaskin area and it has good fishing, especially for smallies which are a riot for kids. With only 2 campsites and very little through traffic it is a very quiet lake. My wife and I went through one year in August and both sites were open and we didn’t see any else on our 2 hours there on a day trip from Gaskin. Another year I spent 2 nights 3 days there in June and we had the lake to ourselves. The other side was vacant and only one other group came through. We caught a lot of smallies and also a few walleye for a fish fry. Allen is also a nice quiet lake in the area because it only has 1 campsite and doesn’t get much through traffic.

With littles my favorite time is mid to late August. For myself I’d rather go in September, but with kids the weather and water temperatures are better in August. This year I’m taking my 5 year old son on his first bwca trip and we are shooting for a mid August entry.

Hog creek would be a no from me. Lots of pull overs and no sandy beaches. Isabella has 2 nice sandy beaches and is super easy to get to. I went there at 8 months pregnant one year.

Hi everyone!!

Just wanted to update you and let you know we chose the Lizz EP. Thank you for all of your advice!

Next question is... any opinions on a canoe? We're trying to decide between a 3 or 4 seater (Northwind 18 vs 20). I really doubt my 2.5 year old will want to sit her they're seat the whole time, but maybe having one available is a good idea? Experiences and thoughts welcome. (-:

We've been going for 5 years with our kids. My 5 year old will be going in on his 7th trip this June. He went in at 9 weeks. My daughter went on her first trip at 8 weeks to Ram last fall. Our 3 year old has been in 4 times. Even last year with the 5 of us, we were fine in our 17' Souris River Quetico. Though I've decided to add another canoe to the fleet this spring and have an 18.5' souris on order. I waffled between that and a northwind 20'... Maybe I'll get that one day as well. I had added a third seat into our 17'. The 18.5 has three seats already. The youngest rides up front between Mom's legs. The two boys ride in the middle seat. If funds allow and you see many trips in your future, snag a used Northwind 20' from Piragis.

Other thoughts (I used to post more often, but the canoeing with kids forum was pretty silent, glad to see all the activity now)

Portable Camp high chair... best investment you can bring, doesn't pack well, but I loved it. Maybe with a 2.5 yr old you don't need it, but any younger I recommend.
Get a kids paddle and let them paddle.
Get a Lean 3 from CCS and enjoy the view.
Plan to carry your kids. Even if they walk the entire way, still plan on it.
I've quadrupled portaged a few entries because that was my only choice- I think my record is 6.4 miles on little gabbro to get them in.
Take your time.
Dont... and I mean DON'T let any negative bwca.com members tell you you cant or shouldn't do something with kids in the backcountry.
We have a box screen (not sure they make it anymore, but super light weight and crucial for bugs.
We have an art kit, dice, checkers, and Fox-n-Goose board games.

Let me know if you have any other questions- A few others that helped me alone the way have already chimed in

I assume you’re looking to rent? not buy based on your posts?

If renting I’d go with the 18 because it will have plenty of room and it will be easier to portage than the 20.

If buying and you plan on many years of tripping as a family and no tandem trips I’d then say maybe the 20.

We purchased a Souris River Quetico 18.5 when the girls were 4 and 2 and they fit side by side in the 3rd seat until they were 12 and 10. We thought about getting a bigger canoe but went that route because we also used it tandem in addition to all 4 of us and it was plenty big for all of us for 8 years. If we weren’t going to use it tandem we may have gotten a bigger one, but it was plenty big for 8 years and it worked a lot better for our tandem trips.

With your backpacking background I think you’ll have plenty of room in the 18 for your gear.

Congratulations on getting a Lizz permit. I love that area. Are you using Rockwood? If so tell them ducks sent you. They’ll take good care of you and your family. They’re been giving our kids the VIP treatment for years.

I would second ducks take on future use of the canoe. That is why we settled on the 3 person, because it will be a better tandem when we eventually graduate to 2 canoes.

As far ducks mentioned outfitter/ bunkhouse, we stayed there last year with the 3 kids and to put it lightly... very salty experience... I wanted to love the place, but we won't ever go back to stay.

THEGrandRapids: "Portable Camp high chair... best investment you can bring, doesn't pack well, but I loved it. "

Your thoughts are so helpful. I never considered bringing camp chairs for the kids or a pop up screen tent for camp to keep the bugs out. We normally don't have the luxury to bring things like that on our adventures. We're used to roughing it but like I've read a lot of people saying on here, I definitely want to make this first trip all about the kids. The goal being to come back again and again. Its awesome that your family has spent so much time on the water over the years!

ducks: "If renting I’d go with the 18 because it will have plenty of room and it will be easier to portage than the 20.
"

Yes! We'll be renting this year but we do hope to buy a used one of our own in the future. I really like how you compared the 18 to the 20. I hadn't thought about it in quite that way. I think we'll go with renting the 18 and see what we think. I do see us doing both family and tandem trips in the future so it may be a good option for us! I could see us switching to using two canoes when they're older as well, depending on the type/length of trip.

And yes, we're going to stay in the bunkhouse at Rockwood. I will definitely let them know you recommended them!

As far ducks mentioned outfitter/ bunkhouse, we stayed there last year with the 3 kids and to put it lightly... very salty experience... I wanted to love the place, but we won't ever go back to stay. "

Uh oh! Can I ask what happened? I'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. We did end up booking with them in the bunkhouse. I guess we'll just have to cross our fingers and hope for a better experience.

Nikki: "

ducks: "If renting I’d go with the 18 because it will have plenty of room and it will be easier to portage than the 20.
"

Yes! We'll be renting this year but we do hope to buy a used one of our own in the future. I really like how you compared the 18 to the 20. I hadn't thought about it in quite that way. I think we'll go with renting the 18 and see what we think. I do see us doing both family and tandem trips in the future so it may be a good option for us! I could see us switching to using two canoes when they're older as well, depending on the type/length of trip.

And yes, we're going to stay in the bunkhouse at Rockwood. I will definitely let them know you recommended them! "

When will you be there? I'll be at Rockwood with my wife and our 3 kids (19,16, and 5) in a cabin the beginning of July/end of August for our annual stay in one of their cabins. I'm taking our 5 year old on his first father/son trip to South Kawishiwi mid August(practiced at Entry Point campgrounds when he was 3 and 4), and our 19 year old daughter doesn't like camping in the bwca anymore so for her turn for a daddy/daughter trip we will spend one night on the North Shore and 1 night in a bunkhouse at Rockwood in early June to do some day hikes.

Have fun and let us know if you have any questions about your route. I've in the Lizz area a few times and have camped on Horseshoe, Gaskin, Pillsbury, and Caribou. I've also done a few daytrips in that area.

Ciao! is the brand. The primary reason is because its a spot I can confidently put them if I need to do anything else. A safe place if you will. Don't need to worry about them crawling away, or falling off a ledge, or anything like that. If you are traveling through Grand Rapids, MN, you could certainly borrow it.

I would add to the list- for rain gear, skip the jacket and pants and get a full rain suit. LLBean has them for a reasonable price. Two years ago, we got caught in a 36 hour downpour. Bring a tarp. It was one of the best times we head, since the only thing we could do was be together.

Your "rough" it comment made me think. Every type of adventure you do has a range of Rough to Lux. And even with Kids that changes. For me, the best way to pack is based on how you plan to portage (single double, leap frog, 1.5, etc)... I plan our gear around the number of trips it will take. Lets say I can carry 40 pounds, or 50 liters, doesn't matter, this is just an example. If I pack 60 pounds, it takes me 2 trips. So with a canoe, the volume you can pack is unbelievable, why only take 60 pounds when I'm making 2 trips already, I can now "afford" to pack an extra 20 pounds and still make the exact same trips across. Goes the other way to, if you pack 90 pounds you need to trim 10, or make an extra trip (which then you could do) and pack 120. The concept is simply take advantage of full loads. You mention backpacking, which is light, but not nearly as light as you need to get Bikepacking rigs. Can't carry 40 pounds on your back. We did a 150 mile trip across part of Vancouver island with our 2 and 4 year old boy. You can absolutely "rough" it in luxury canoe camping. Another item to consider with packing-to-portage-style is with kids, one of the adults is only making a single trip across the portage because someone needs to stay with the kids the entire time, and to me, pointless to have the kids at this age double portage. Which leaves you to a 1.5 or 2.5 portage. Typically, at the beginning of one of our trips, with more food, I will triple portage, while my spouse will single portage. It takes time, but we are always carrying full loads (plus canoe and kids).

As far as the outfitter, I don't really want to speak bad of anyone, and suppose I'd give it another go. We were hyped the entire road trip up there and intended to spend time around the place the evening before, but felt like unwelcome guests, basically an inconvenience to them. It was a Sunday evening stay end of august, so maybe summer just wore them out and they had a bad day, which happens. We also weren't renting from them as we are fully outfitted ourselves, so just a bunk and bought some swag (I love their logo and wear the hat all winter).

I'm in BWCA mode- just need to get through a tax season, then another summer filled with kid adventures.

We are headed in to East Bearskin to Alder in June with the three kids. Will have our new green SQ18.5 by then, so anyone that sees us, say hi.

Other easy options for future reference:
East Bearskin to Crocodile.
Slim Lake (near Burntside)- day trips to the lakes further in
Ram Lake- day trips to little trout lake
Cross River Entry down to Long Island (this was our biggest trip with kids in tow) 5 days
Seagull to Grandpa (this was a day trip out of trails end campground)
Little Gabbro to Bald Eagle

None of these may be Epic trips by other bwca frames of reference, but for kids in tow, they were definitely epic trips.

I get misty thinking about all the evenings spent with my kids in the backcountry.

THEGrandRapids I feel the same way about adventures with my kids.

We are staying in one of the camper cabins at East Bearskin for 3 nights in June and will keep an eye out for your family in the green SR Q 18.5.

I’m also excited that my 16 year old daughter who is a Jr is already planning her daddy/daughter trip with me for next year and she wants to go right after graduation. She wants to do her favorite trip which was Sawbill to Smoke. Each year one of the girls goes with me and one does something special with mom and rotate each year.

I haven’t been to Ram or Seagull so can’t comment on those but I agree with those other suggestions. Cross Bay was younger daughter’s first trip with me at 5. Crocodile was great fishing for me and older daughter at age 11. Slim was a great solo over Halloween weekend in 2022. And Little Gabbro to Bald Eagle was the first trip I did with my wife 15 years ago and loved that trip.

Ducks- how do you take your 5 year old? What’s the canoe set up?

Our goal (as best we try) is for everyone to wake up in a tent on their birthday! We aren’t 100% but we try. Only mine is a winter birthday (so we skip that)

THEGrandRapids: "Ducks- how do you take your 5 year old? What’s the canoe set up?
)"

We now have a Souris River Q16. I turn it around backwards so when he is in the bow he is closer to the front and I’m closer to the middle. It is small enough for his little bit of help and I also use it for my solo trips.

When the girls out grew being able to sit in the 3rd seat together we essentially traded the 18.5 for the 16 because almost all of my trips had become either solo or with one of our kids at that point. After renting a solo 4 times and renting a small tandem 4 times while we owned the 18.5 it was financially a better route to replace the 18.5 with a 16. After buying the 18.5 used from an outfitter and using it for 8 years we were able to sell it for the same price we bought it for. Then we used that money to help pay for the 16 for only $100 more and it was a few years newer and was in better shape.

I did use the 18.5 on a few trips with each of the girls when they were small. It was fine when it was loaded with packs, but we got blown around a lot when we went out fishing unloaded. I did stick to small water and brought the food barrel and a dry bag full of water which helped some when we went out fishing. The 18.5 was great for tandem trips with my wife and for all 4 of us, but wasn’t the best for me and one of the girls on our daddy/daughter trips.



Pictures of the girls are in the 18.5 when they were 7 and 9 and the pic of our son paddling is at 3 in the 16 and the pic with his first walleye is at 4 in the 16.