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This is not surprising at all as insular dwarfism is a known biological process that happens in island ecosystems.

Wow it says that moose numbers have tripled in ten years.

inspector13: "
This is not surprising at all as insular dwarfism is a known biological process that happens in island ecosystems.

"

I remember from School what is called Bergs Law-animals of the same species usually are bigger as you go north and cooler climate. They can disapate(sp) heat better.

Sounds just like North Korea. The people there are becoming smaller every generation because lack of good food.

inspector13: "
This is not surprising at all as insular dwarfism is a known biological process that happens in island ecosystems.

"

I always thought I’d was Fosters law that dictates that animals will either get bigger or smaller isolated on an island?

Yes, insular dwarfism is only is halve of Foster’s law with large species getting smaller, the other being that some small mainland species may get bigger (insular gigantism).

There should be many factors determining size. With the lack of predation, the larger moose may no longer have an advantage over the smaller.

It's not just North Korea, EH. We're shrinking in America too, unlike western Europeans who keep growing, generation by generation. So, when our moose are no bigger than ponies, we'll be so small too they'll still seem big.

missmolly: "It's not just North Korea, EH. We're shrinking in America too, unlike western Europeans who keep growing, generation by generation. So, when our moose are no bigger than ponies, we'll be so small too they'll still seem big."

Alternative facts :)

studies and stats I read say we have slowed down in height gains compared to Northern Europe (not getting shorter) but we also have a different genetic diversity of a new immigrants from traditionally under nourished and shorter countries than what Northern Europe quotas allow. Height is mostly genetic with some consideration for diet, especially in the first few years of life.

For example 100 years ago the avg. American Male was 5’7” and we ranked 3rd tallest in the world. Currently the avg. male is 5’10” but we now rank 37th. Although it is something to be concerned about, we certainly aren’t shorter? A few studies over the last 10years do show a minuscule loss of height but genetics and country of origin were not considered as far as I could see, while European studies tend to single out measures on only those of traditional European descent...not comparing apples and oranges.

Military studies looking at recruits who have had at least one generation of parents born in the USA show we are still increasing in height. Also if you look at Military stats about the height of recruits from each war you can see consistent height gains as well. Most people touting we are getting shorter start at Colonial times for comparative standards with a very low “n” and a lot of self reported heights of males...everyone knows self reported male stats are highly accurate...lol

timatkn: "

missmolly: "It's not just North Korea, EH. We're shrinking in America too, unlike western Europeans who keep growing, generation by generation. So, when our moose are no bigger than ponies, we'll be so small too they'll still seem big."

Alternative facts :)

studies and stats I read say we have slowed down in height gains compared to Northern Europe (not getting shorter) but we also have a different genetic diversity of a new immigrants from traditionally under nourished and shorter countries than what Northern Europe quotas allow. Height is mostly genetic with some consideration for diet, especially in the first few years of life.


For example 100 years ago the avg. American Male was 5’7” and we ranked 3rd tallest in the world. Currently the avg. male is 5’10” but we now rank 37th. Although it is something to be concerned about, we certainly aren’t shorter? A few studies over the last 10years do show a minuscule loss of height but genetics and country of origin were not considered as far as I could see, while European studies tend to single out measures on only those of traditional European descent...not comparing apples and oranges.


Military studies looking at recruits who have had at least one generation of parents born in the USA show we are still increasing in height. Also if you look at Military stats about the height of recruits from each war you can see consistent height gains as well. Most people touting we are getting shorter start at Colonial times for comparative standards with a very low “n” and a lot of self reported heights of males...everyone knows self reported male stats are highly accurate...lol"

I would also add that 100 years ago the studies compared to the rest of the worlds population are probably suspect. I would guess Northern Europeans have ALWAYS been taller than the USA, and that we really weren't 3rd.

... wait... what does this have to do with moose??? :)

And back to Moose?
Its amazing the different size of the subspecies across North America.

"Data collected from the federal Centers for Disease Control show that average height for Americans has stabilized in the past 50 years to about 5 feet 9 inches for men and 5 feet 4 inches for women."

I was wrong. We're not shrinking. However, folks are growing taller in some countries.

Pinetree: "And back to Moose?
Its amazing the different size of the subspecies across North America."

I know a Canadian guy who is a Newfie and spends his summers staffing a fish camp in NW Ontario. In September he returns home to Newfoundland to guide during moose hunting season. He has said the moose in NW Ontario are bigger than the moose in Newfoundland. Maybe due to a shorter growing season ;)

This is good news! Now someday my dream of having a pet pygmy moose might finally come to fruition.

Pinetree:
I remember from School what is called Bergs Law-animals of the same species usually are bigger as you go north and cooler climate. They can disapate(sp) heat better."

Close - it is called Bergman's Rule:

Rules in Ecology

missmolly: "It's not just North Korea, EH. We're shrinking in America too, unlike western Europeans who keep growing, generation by generation. So, when our moose are no bigger than ponies, we'll be so small too they'll still seem big."

Well, this American is NOT shrinking; according to my scale and the mirror, I'm GROWING (LOL)!

So I'm interested in the situation with the wolves. They say that shorter periods of ice-in resulted in new wolves not coming to the island, triggering inbreeding, triggering a population crash. But there still *are* periods of ice-in, right? Isle Royale does still get connected to the North Shore via ice for some period each winter, right? Assuming so, given the exploding moose population, one would expect moose to venture onto the ice enough to lure the (growing) population of wolves in MN and ON to make their way out in winter hunts at least periodically? Maybe it's just too far, but clearly it happened regularly in the past, and our wolf populations are higher than they've been in decades, which I think would encourage the quest out on to the ice for easy, delicious moose meals.

Note that I'm not at all opposed to them manually introducing more wolves to the island; but I would imagine it will happen on its own as long as Isle Royale is *ever* connected to the mainland by ice.

The ice bridge from Grand Portage doesn't happen every winter. However it has happened many times in my life.

The Minnesota wolf favors the protection of the Minnesota DNR as to Michigan's DNR. In fact wolf have left the island. Now the moose prefer Michigan's DNR.

These 2 wolves crossed over from Ontario. Ontario allows wolf hunting, maybe why they left. They were followed by researchers on the Island and tracked by plane. No wonder the wolves that check out the island turn around and leave. I know of a few cases of wolves leaving the Island and coming to Minnesota. I have never heard of a moose crossing.
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