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Kendis
member (20)member
 
06/03/2018 09:37AM
All,

My wife and I were driving to our "dry run" location this weekend to do a final test of our equipment. It was also an opportunity to test our system for transporting our canoe.

Below are the various items involved in transport:

-Canoe: Wenonah Champlain - kevlar UL
(https://www.wenonah.com/Canoes.aspx?id=15)
- Car: 2010 Honda Fit (https://www.autotrader.com/Honda/Fit/2010)
- Roof rack: Yakima Core-Bar (https://www.rei.com/product/102597/yakima-50-corebars-pair)
- Saddles and belly straps for boat for roof rack: Yakima Keelover
(https://www.rei.com/product/849951/yakima-keelover-canoe-carrier)
- Loops to go inside the car hood to use to tie down the bow of the canoe
(https://www.rei.com/product/818227/seattle-sports-quick-loops-pair)

We tie down the bow to the front of the car. We do not tie down the stern to the rear of the car because: (1) don't want to worry about somehow damaging the spine of the canoe and (2) there isn't a good way to do it in this car.

Attached are two photos showing: (1) the roof rack system with canoe attached and (2) view from inside the car showing the bow tied to the front of the car.

While we were driving yesterday some of the roads had speed limits of 65 mph. Previously the highest speed we had driven at with the canoe on the car was 55 mph. We noticed that this system is stable at 55 mph, but once you get up towards 60 mph and especially 65+ mph, the bow slowly begins to move back and forth. We pulled over and realized the front belly straps were slowly working themselves loose (the rear straps were still nice and tight).

Any advice how how to prevent this problem from happening at 60+ mph? We have hundreds of miles to drive from the Chicago area up to BWCA and driving at 55 mph instead of 65+ mph will add at least an hour to our already long drive.
 
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billconner
distinguished member(6731)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/03/2018 09:58AM
The one thing you might try - if I read photo right - is separate hood tie lines. It looks like you just wrap one continous line left to right and I try to tension those lines separately to each side. It might be worth tying them forward of hood straps so they are putting some forward tension on bow, not just side to side.

I'd guess with Fit that roof bars are not as far apart as I am use too and that may contribute to wiggle. I think I'd try setting canoe as far back as possible. Attach a red warning flag.

old_salt
distinguished member(2300)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/03/2018 10:00AM
Suggest tying down both front and rear to frame of vehicle. May involve getting underneath vehicle to access hook up points. You need both front and rear stability to prevent what you described. Your center straps look good. You don’t need to over tighten ropes or straps. If you cinch slow and carefully, you can tell when canoe is snug. I can do 75 mph when properly secured.
Canoearoo
distinguished member(2225)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/03/2018 12:11PM
The front tie down should not be just one rope. You need 2 individual ropes tied town to the front (we use canoe loops attached to the frame)
mastertangler
distinguished member(5439)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/03/2018 01:23PM
Michigan State police suggested it was poor form to do 80MPH with 3 canoes (one nesting) on top. Friendly sort, let me off with a warning.
TwoByGreenCanoe
distinguished member(864)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/03/2018 01:29PM
I noticed your KeelOver or load stops are located on the inside of the canoe. Have you tried them on the outside and lock them really tight to the canoe.

thebotanyguy
distinguished member(759)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/03/2018 01:37PM
I have never had a cam buckle loosen, so I am inclined to think that the buckle might be a problem. If you can tell which strap was on the front, you could switch them back to front and repeat your driving test. If the front remains tight, you have one wonky buckle and you should return the strap for replacement.
mschi772
distinguished member (191)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/03/2018 01:45PM
Canoearoo: "The front tie down should not be just one rope. You need 2 individual ropes tied town to the front (we use canoe loops attached to the frame) "

Or you can knot the single rope tightly on either side of the bow as the looping is indeed insufficient. That bow rope also looks like a type that has a fair amount of stretch, so I'd recommend a cord/rope with less stretch.
06/03/2018 06:47PM
Your right about front and back ropes possibly hurting the "spine"... What I found is when the front belly strap seems to have loosened a lot of times it's because the cam side is tight but the other is still loose and in driving it evens out and the canoe moves. I've learned to make sure both sides of the strap are snug. Also, with some bars it's good to put two straps on the front bar. They don't have to be super tight, but the second strap really helps in my opinion. The front and back straps can be a little snug, but like you mentioned, you can stress parts of a canoe properly tied on the belly and cranked down on the front and back. Especially the UL. Kind of a safety strap if your rack fails. The other thing I've done with success is put high density pipe insulation and wrap with a quality duct type tape. Or some kind of padding... The canoe will nestle in and not move at all.
Even tied down good I watch speed especially when bucking a wind. It can really stress a boat if your not careful. The padding also absorbs a lot of the bumps.
I've had upwards of 27 boats on at a time. Never a front or rear strap, but I have distance between bars. I started putting on the second front strap on for insurance in the wind in case a strap might break. I've been in 60 MPH winds a few times. The not moving was a side benefit.
tumblehome
distinguished member(1431)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/03/2018 06:58PM
You need to tie the back of the canoe to the back of the car. There is a way to do it, you just need to find out how. You will not damage the canoe. ALL canoes should be tied at the front and back. I tie mine as tight as I can get it front and back.

Tie the crap out of the canoe. It doesn't have to look sporty. Tie Tie Tie. More rope. More straps.

I once got a speeding ticket with a canoe on my Prius. The trooper said I would get better milage if I wasn't driving so fast. 75 in a 55. Oops.
Bumstead
distinguished member (257)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/03/2018 07:04PM
Maybe someone else can comment on this, but it appears you have the canoe shifted forward on the two bars which seems to pitch it forward. I always mount my canoes on center. Is it possible, being farther forward, that you're catching an updraft from the front of the vehicle that is causing more sway to the front of the canoe? Maybe give it a try with the 'Wenonah' in the center of your bars. I mount 2 canoes on my van and am very content driving 73 mph with a slight movement in the canoes. I do use a rear rope on the canoes too.
06/03/2018 07:06PM
Off topic - Looks like you are close to Naperville? Looks like that exit on the highway pic, and you sure seem to be at blackwell forest preserve in the other pic.
06/03/2018 07:16PM
Your load stops belong on the outside of the canoe. It appears they are on the inside.
06/03/2018 07:28PM
tumblehome: "You need to tie the back of the canoe to the back of the car. There is a way to do it, you just need to find out how. You will not damage the canoe. ALL canoes should be tied at the front and back. I tie mine as tight as I can get it front and back.


Tie the crap out of the canoe. It doesn't have to look sporty. Tie Tie Tie. More rope. More straps.


I once got a speeding ticket with a canoe on my Prius. The trooper said I would get better milage if I wasn't driving so fast. 75 in a 55. Oops."





After hauling hundreds of canoes, the only ones that were damaged were ones tied off front and back early in my hauling. You can damage boats by tightening the ends too much. Many boats are not made for this. Some have a hole somewhat reenforced like Northstar I believe. But I wouldn't put a lot of faith in the handle bar on the Wenonah. Usually replace the rivets with SS rivets but the aluminum loosens. When using the front tie downs it's best to use the fender straps you can buy or make. Just be careful... The Champlain is a big boat for a small car.
unshavenman
distinguished member(1050)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/03/2018 09:07PM
That's too much cord on the front. Use two pieces of cordage that doesn't stretch. A bowline on one end and a truckers hitch on the other and you should have much better results. It's true that the Champlain is a big canoe, especially given the size of your vehicle, but tied correctly you should be completely safe at speeds above 75 mph ;)
I agree with Nctry, don't tension any kind of cord to the rear of the canoe; you could break the spine.
06/03/2018 09:21PM
It’s hard to explain without photos but I use a small piece of rope, 12” with a bowline on one end. I wrap it tightly around the front line where it makes an upside down V under the bow of the canoe. This tightens the front line without pulling down on the canoe and possibly damaging the spine.

There is a good feature about how to tie down a canoe on Red Rock Wilderness Store site. Search for “How to”. When I bought my canoe there that’s how he tied it down and I went 70mph home with a crosswind. The front shifted an inch or so but nothing serious.
06/03/2018 09:21PM
It’s hard to explain without photos but I use a small piece of rope, 12” with a bowline on one end. I wrap it tightly around the front line where it makes an upside down V under the bow of the canoe. This tightens the front line without pulling down on the canoe and possibly damaging the spine.

There is a good feature about how to tie down a canoe on Red Rock Wilderness Store site. Search for “How to”. When I bought my canoe there that’s how he tied it down and I went 70mph home with a crosswind. The front shifted an inch or so but nothing serious.
Capsize
senior member (74)senior membersenior member
 
06/03/2018 09:32PM
I am not familiar with the Yakima system, but the Thule system has canoe stops that go on the outside of the canoe and lock in place on the bars. These canoe stops keep the canoe from moving from side to side at all. The straps simply lock the canoe down, and are not there to keep it from moving laterally. As mentioned earlier, see if your canoe stops can be put against the outside rail of the canoe to keep it from moving. They should be nice and snug.
andym
distinguished member(4215)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/03/2018 11:15PM
Lots of great advice so far. If you can’t increase the distance between the crossbars, you can build a 2x4 frame that goes on top of your cross bars and gets attached to your crossbars with u-bolts. Two pieces run parallel to the length of your car and attach with the u-bolts. These go outside the width of your canoe. Then two crosspieces connect those two. The canoe goes on top of the 2x4 cross pieces. Now, you effectively have a crossbar spread that is longer than what your car allows and the 2x4s are stiffer than your canoe. Today, I saw something like that built from maybe half inch galvanized pipe. The person using it was carrying a 15’ canoe for which it wasn’t critical but he says it works great with his 22’ rowing shell. This was on top of a Prius. Given how low your car is, it will still be easy to get the canoe on top and it may even get it further out of your view.
andym
distinguished member(4215)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/03/2018 11:24PM
The Yakima keelovers should act as gunwale stops. Maybe you have the more on the inside of the gunwales because I can’t see them. Do make sure they are snug.

You can use the same straps on the trunk or tailgate of your car for a rear tie down. There should be something under the frame but I have used he straps for rental cars.
jhb8426
distinguished member(680)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2018 12:54AM
Capsize: "I am not familiar with the Yakima system, but the Thule system has canoe stops that go on the outside... "

That's how I normally put mine on, except in the case of my Northwind I had to put them on the inside as there was no room on the rails to fit them on the outside. I could still get them tight to the sides of the gunwales so the hull didn't move.
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2115)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2018 05:17AM
All excellent suggestions for you to consider. Once, when driving interstate speeds, my Prism started doing same. My setup is two cam straps on truck bed rail racks--no stern or bow tie-downs & no stops on crossbars. The front end of the canoe would eventually begin to swing slightly--especially when an 18-wheeler would fly by on the passing lane. 65 mph is generally the speed I drive since I am also pulling a camper. I travel from southern Ohio and have used that same route many, many times and had not encountered that issue on previous trips. Whenever I'd stop for gas or pit stops I'd check straps to find forward strap looser than I last secured it. Stern end strap never loosening. In frustration, I repositioned the canoe either by moving it forward or backward (can't remember which!) about 12" to 15", then resecured straps. It worked. Did not sway or loosen from Chicago area to Sawbill Campground. Perhaps I aligned canoe straighter on the repositioning, as well.
Kendis
member (20)member
 
06/04/2018 08:08AM
Thank you all for your advice. Rather than reply to a lot of individual posts, below is my response to your various suggestions/comments:

1. Increase the distance between the two cross bars - this distance is set by Yakima for our specific car model and cannot be changed.

2. Construct a wood frame to supplement the cross bars - we will consider this as a last resort. My wife is very against this for the time being.

3. Change the orientation of the keelover saddles so that the saddles point inward towards the center of the car rather than outward - the width and shape of the canoe dictate the possibilities here. The "normal" configuration with the saddles pointing inward is not feasible for our car and canoe. There is not enough width in this configuration to accommodate the canoe. Moving the saddles outside of the mounting towers increases the width by too much, and the canoe cannot sit on the saddles. The only saddle configuration that works is to have the saddles point outward. This is a valid setup per the Yakima instructions.

4. Move the tie down loops farther forward along the hood so that they provide both lateral and longitudinal restraint - we will try this.

5. Use two separate ropes to tie down the bow to the front of the car - we will try this with a bowline attached to the tie down loops and a trucker's hitch for the canoe.

6. Use rope that does not stretch as much - we will try this. We observed that this rope does stretch under this loading. Do any of you have a recommendation for a rope material and/or diameter?

7. Tie down the stern as well as the bow - we are not willing to consider this as we believe this will lead to damage of the canoe's spine.

8. Replace the front cam strap, since the buckle should not be working itself loose - we will consider this if the other fixes fail to solve the problem. This buckle does not work itself loose at speeds at or below 55 mph, so we currently believe the buckle operates correctly so long as the canoe is restrained correctly with the bow tie down.

9. Add another strap to the front cross bar to further restrain the canoe - we will consider this if the other fixes fail to solve the problem, however I do not think this will be a viable fix since there does not appear to be a good place for this second strap to sit.

10. Add padding to further restrain the canoe - I do not understand what you are trying to describe. Do you have a photograph of this?

11. Move the canoe farther back so that it does not overhang the roof as much - we spent a lot of time trying to figure out the best place for the canoe to sit. Due to the saddle configuration mentioned in item #3 above, the canoe must sit this far forward so that both the front and rear saddles firmly support the gunwales. The apparent slant of the canoe in the photograph attached to the original post is due to the fact that the front cross bar sits slightly lower than the rear cross bar due to the slant in the car's roofline. This stumped us but we cannot find a solution that sets both cross bars at the same elevation since the cross bars are mounted per the Yakima recommendations.
Kendis
member (20)member
 
06/04/2018 08:28AM
bfurlow: "Off topic - Looks like you are close to Naperville? Looks like that exit on the highway pic, and you sure seem to be at blackwell forest preserve in the other pic. "
We do live close to Naperville. We were driving eastbound along I-88 this past weekend in the highway photograph. The parking lot photograph is at Blackwell, taken during the first nice-ish ice-free weekend in March.
Gman42
member (19)member
 
06/04/2018 08:38AM
Bumstead: "Maybe someone else can comment on this, but it appears you have the canoe shifted forward on the two bars which seems to pitch it forward. I always mount my canoes on center. Is it possible, being farther forward, that you're catching an updraft from the front of the vehicle that is causing more sway to the front of the canoe? Maybe give it a try with the 'Wenonah' in the center of your bars. I mount 2 canoes on my van and am very content driving 73 mph with a slight movement in the canoes. I do use a rear rope on the canoes too."

I agree, the logo should be centered between the bars. Also, I'd recommend purchasing ratchet straps instead of using ropes and knots. Ratchet straps allow you to tighten down the load without worrying that the straps will come loose. You can get a set at any big box hardware store; don't buy them from an outdoor store as they're more expensive and they don't have a good selection.
Jackfish
Moderator
 
06/04/2018 10:47AM
Kendis, just as a reminder... you have a lot of links listed in your original post. For the ease of everyone wishing to read your post, please utilize the "Add a link to this message" function that is right below the text box in which you type.

Link to Add a link to this message tutorial
bcelect
distinguished member (104)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2018 10:51AM
The belly straps are a good way of holding but I have found that when you are tightening them, you are in fact tightening one side more than the other. I use Thule and the live side gets more tension, but around the bar, the static side doesn't get as much tension. I tighten mine then give the boat a good simulation of wind shake, then tighten again. This helps to balance the tension to both sides of the strap.
After a 10 mile drive at highway speeds, the straps should always be checked and tightened.
PineKnot
distinguished member(1534)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2018 10:58AM
Capsize: "I am not familiar with the Yakima system, but the Thule system has canoe stops that go on the outside of the canoe and lock in place on the bars. These canoe stops keep the canoe from moving side to side at all. The straps simply lock the canoe down, and are not there to keep it from moving laterally. As mentioned earlier, see if your canoe stops can be put against the outside rail of the canoe to keep it from moving. They should be nice and snug. "

I also have the Thule gunwale brackets and put them on the outside of the gunwales. I drive an Outback and the brackets barely fit when I haul my Bell Northwind tandem....I also use three tiedowns on the front of the vehicle--one on each side under the hood and one in the center hooked to the frame under front bumper. I can do up to 80 mph on interstate even with a moderate crosswind....

I would suggest you move your Yakima brackets to the outside of your gunwales if possible. If not, you'll need to ensure they're very tight to you crossbars. Also try three separate tiedowns up front and one in the back (just don't crank the rear tie down too tight)....best of luck and happy paddling....
Guest today
Guest Paddler
 
06/04/2018 12:14PM
The two straps going across the top of your canoe are way too far apart. They should be almost touching each other. The wind will slowly blow the straps closer together and this will loosen your straps as you drive.
anthonyp007
distinguished member (239)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2018 12:36PM
Bumstead: "Maybe someone else can comment on this, but it appears you have the canoe shifted forward on the two bars which seems to pitch it forward. I always mount my canoes on center. Is it possible, being farther forward, that you're catching an updraft from the front of the vehicle that is causing more sway to the front of the canoe? Maybe give it a try with the 'Wenonah' in the center of your bars. I mount 2 canoes on my van and am very content driving 73 mph with a slight movement in the canoes. I do use a rear rope on the canoes too."

+1...it looks like the Wenonah logo should be perfectly centered between your bars, but’s it’s more forward in the pics. I’d start there, then I’d also put stern lines on it.
andym
distinguished member(4215)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/04/2018 02:58PM
The straps need to be apart the distance of the width of the bars. That is the minimum distance around the canoe when they are tight. These might be wider bars and so the strap spacing might be ok.

If the canoe needs to be too far forward then maybe the rack setup just isn’t right for your car and this canoe. Maybe longer bars would give you more flexibility about placement although they would overhang the sides.


Or, consider the Spring Creek suction cup racks. They may get you a bigger spread distance at the cost of running straps through your car. And they may let you have gunwale stops further apart so that you can put the canoe down further back.

Finally, and here I go with 2x4s again, consider the Spring Creek suction cup rack kit. With this kit you add 2x4s as the crossbars. That could let you rig the front rack up higher (use 2x4 spacers under the front rack) and get the canoe more out of your view.

TwoByGreenCanoe
distinguished member(864)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2018 05:00PM
I understand when you say you can't put the load stops on the outside due to the towers in the way. The way I do it is placing one load stop outside the tower and the other on the inside the tower. The canoe is not center with the car but I like having more view out the windshield on the drivers side.
06/04/2018 07:57PM
Kendis: "bfurlow: "Off topic - Looks like you are close to Naperville? Looks like that exit on the highway pic, and you sure seem to be at blackwell forest preserve in the other pic. "
We do live close to Naperville. We were driving eastbound along I-88 this past weekend in the highway photograph. The parking lot photograph is at Blackwell, taken during the first nice-ish ice-free weekend in March."


Cool! Nice to have another local Illinois paddler on the board!
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2115)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2018 08:16PM
Guest today: "The two straps going across the top of your canoe are way too far apart. They should be almost touching each other. The wind will slowly blow the straps closer together and this will loosen your straps as you drive. "
True that.
jhb8426
distinguished member(680)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/04/2018 11:00PM
Gman42: "... Also, I'd recommend purchasing ratchet straps instead of using ropes and knots. Ratchet straps allow you to tighten down the load without worrying that the straps will come loose...."

They also allow you to crack the hull. It's easy to over tighten them. I'd avoid them. It's easy to tighten a cam buckle strap tight enough to hold things down.
T
Guest Paddler
 
06/05/2018 05:59AM
Your problem is the result of putting your straps on wrong. You can screw a lot of things up but if you put your straps on wrong you are doomed. You have too much space between the straps. I bet if you untorqued the straps but left them tight and moved them closer together you could stick your fingers between the straps and canoe. The proper way to do it would be to put the straps on like you did but tighten them only enough to take out the slack. Now go around your vehicle and start pushing the straps together and testing the slack. Keep pushing your straps together and taking out slack until you have the tightest point around your canoe and the rack. When you have them at the tightest point torque them down and your canoe will not move.
bcelect
distinguished member (104)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/05/2018 09:41AM
I don't see if your straps are too far apart or not but... If you are worried about them not being properly spaced, Chris cross them when you thread them on. This way you are assured that they are not spaced improperly.
LilyPond
distinguished member (275)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/05/2018 09:23PM
Kendis: "7. Tie down the stern as well as the bow - we are not willing to consider this as we believe this will lead to damage of the canoe's spine."

The solution you're unwilling to consider is the one that's the most important.

WIDE CANOE + SMALL CAR + INADEQUATE LINES + HIGH SPEED = SETUP FOR DISASTER

So far no one has thought to remind you of your first and foremost duty on the road: to not kill anybody. Bow and stern lines are absolutely essential for safety. You're incorrect about damaging the canoe, but that's not your first concern. Your first concern is the safety of your passengers and other cars on the road. What do you think happens when a 60lb projectile flies off your car at high speed? Would you want to be in the path of that projectile? Do you want to lose a passenger in your own car when the canoe destabilizes the car and you run off the road? While you're protecting the "spine" of your canoe, you're a hazard to everyone else on the road. There are many Youtube videos and newspaper reports of what happens to improperly secured canoes and kayaks. Google it.

All this is because you want to save an hour? Try saving some lives first.

I look forward to the day when laws in every state require 4 straps on all canoes and kayaks.

The bow and stern straps don't need to be tight enough to deform the canoe. They need to be tight enough to prevent the canoe from becoming a lethal missile in case of a mishap. Please secure your canoe at 4 points. I also advise people not to travel as a passenger in a vehicle with an improperly secured canoe or kayak. I never drive behind such vehicles either.
LilyPond
distinguished member (275)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/05/2018 10:21PM
Here's an informative thread with some intelligent posts : https://forums.paddling.com/discussion/1138182/bow-stern-tie-downs
Roadkill
Guest Paddler
 
06/06/2018 12:07AM
LilyPond: "Here's an informative thread with some intelligent posts : https://forums.paddling.com/discussion/1138182/bow-stern-tie-downs"
I know of two instances where racing canoes left the rooftop on a highway. The boats quickly became roadkill, fortunately nobody was hurt as both times the boats were ran over by trucks. In both instances they didn't bother to use bow/stern lines.
andym
distinguished member(4215)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/06/2018 01:14AM
I agree with Lilypond. The stern line may not solve your problem but it is an important safety line.

The more I look at the pictures, the more I agree that your straps were getting too far apart on top of the canoe. Either they weren’t parallel to begin with or the buckle got loose. I’m guessing the former. For starters, you might just try another test with the straps done very carefully.

But I would also get longer bars, put the canoe further back and off toward the passenger side. The driver will have better visibility, as someone else pointed out.
yellowcanoe
distinguished member(5113)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/06/2018 03:25AM
Long boats need to be loaded a little off center fore to aft. You have a lot of unsupported bow in front . That leads to bow instability.
We have transported our 18.5 foot Wenonah cross country four times. At speeds up to 75 mph. In the high winds of the Great Plains We found that by having less of the bow ahead of the front crossbar than stern in back of the aft crossbar leads to much better stability.
And that means you must mark the stern with a red flag and tie to something in back. This line needs to go down from a back thwart straight down. not from the stem forward to a back end of car attachment.
Kendis
member (20)member
 
06/06/2018 11:09AM
LilyPond: "Kendis: "7. Tie down the stern as well as the bow - we are not willing to consider this as we believe this will lead to damage of the canoe's spine."

The solution you're unwilling to consider is the one that's the most important.



All this is because you want to save an hour? Try saving some lives first.



"


Thank you for expressing your opinion. I read through the forum thread you linked to and I see that there are mixed opinions about what you stated in your first post. I started this thread asking for ideas on how to safely secure our canoe and I agree with your statements about the need for responsible driving. If you choose to post again in this thread, please do not use the hysterical tone of your first post.

Kendis
Nozzelnut
distinguished member (141)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/06/2018 11:32PM
Replace the bow rope or find a different way to attach it. All those turns around the handle eventually loosened (or tightened depending on how you think about it) causing or allowing the bow movement. Unless you tensioned every turn you took around the handle; I'm not talking about giving it a tug and making another wrap. Webbing has much less stretch. Cam buckle straps are good; ratchet straps are bad and can crush or break boats.

LilyPond
distinguished member (275)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/07/2018 07:41PM
Kendis"Thank you for expressing your opinion. I read through the forum thread you linked to and I see that there are mixed opinions about what you stated in your first post. I started this thread asking for ideas on how to safely secure our canoe and I agree with your statements about the need for responsible driving. If you choose to post again in this thread, please do not use the hysterical tone of your first post.

There's no hysteria, only rational advice based on actual incidents. An improperly secured canoe is a lethal weapon. Why should others put themselves at risk for your convenience? The solution for you is so simple that I don't know why you would object to it.


old_salt
distinguished member(2300)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/07/2018 08:51PM
Another thing to add. If an improperly secured canoe causes an accident, the driver of the vehicle is liable for any damage, injuries, or deaths from the accident. Stating that you cannot find a hook up point is not a viable defense. Every vehicle frame extends to the rear of the vehicle. On some vehicles, it may be necessary to get underneath to access the hookup points. If you need assistance locating hookup points, check with any mechanic.
sns
distinguished member (121)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/12/2018 07:34AM
These straps, secured under the hood, do a nice job of providing solid front anchor points closer to the bow (& therefore allowing less strap stretch...)

Under-Hood Strap attachment point
Kendis
member (20)member
 
06/12/2018 08:07AM
sns: "These straps, secured under the hood, do a nice job of providing solid front anchor points closer to the bow (& therefore allowing less strap stretch...)


Under-Hood Strap attachment point "


Thanks for the suggestion @sns. We are already using a similar product.
paddlingpika
member (7)member
 
06/13/2018 04:38PM
Definitely switch to separate ropes going to each side for the front tie downs. When the front strap started loosening, had the Keelover brackets slid along the bar at all? My Yakima gunnel brackets on the front bar will gradually move with wind pressure on a canoe, even when they are carefully tightened, so long trips sometimes require periodic repositioning of the brackets as well as adjusting the straps. Maybe the new bracket design doesn't have that problem. If movement of the brackets is an issue, since your brackets are inside the gunnels maybe you could run a short rope around the bracket and adjacent tower to prevent the bracket from getting pushed inward.

Not sure if it makes a difference, but I like to run the excess strap length past the cam buckle down around the bar and then tie it off.

If still having problems at highway speeds, I'd try offsetting the bars (or getting longer bars if necessary), so that you could mount one bracket outside of the towers and adjust bracket spacing to have the canoe a bit further back on the car.
paddlingpika
member (7)member
 
06/13/2018 09:06PM
On second thought, maybe tying the gunnel brackets to the towers is not a good idea. If transferring force to the towers caused a tower to slip or fail you'd be much worse off than just having a gunnel bracket slip.
 
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