I'm currently struggling with with some potential gear upgrades. I keep thinking about how much lighter some pieces might be, then find myself wondering if the dollars are worth saving that much weight? An sleeping bag bag that saves 1.5 lbs? An axe that saves 8oz?

So would you spend $100 to save 2 pounds, 1 pound, 8 oz? I'm talking for longer BWCA trips - not hiking. How much is it worth to save a half a pound?

Sorry no good advice from me. I have switched from stainless steel to titanium, polyester fill to goose down sleeping bags, heavy big tents to a hammock. Everyone of these upgrades costed me more than the original item.

Camping gear can be pricey when going lighter. Example is a chair in a bag $15, helix chair $$$. I’ve never added it up, cost per Oz.

I triple portage. I’ve never been concerned with weight. I just bring what I want. It’s my vacation and if I want a hundred Rapala’s, chair in a bag or a screen tent it’s going.

Another aspect to not forget is that cheap lightweight stuff can be crap or can be really good. Hard to tell sometimes. My chair from REI was like $120, same style and weight from some off brand on amazon was $45. The off brand seems more cheaply built but feels the same in material. Time will tell on if it will hold up like the REI.

Boy, tough call and one that only you can answer. I will say that I personally have rarely been sorry I had a lighter, more compact piece of gear in my pack. On the other hand, I use most of my gear for both hiking and paddling, so my perspective may be different than yours.

Good luck and take your time deciding. I like nice gear, but would rather spend less and take more trips if that were part of the equation.

For me, first and foremost, it has to be an upgrade in quality. Is it better built and will it last? It is a bonus if it’s dependability and multiusage leads to sheding weight.

I have also found that shedding weight hightlights one’s degree of comfort. Do I really need that 15 oz of whisky?

Oh yes. Yes I do.

That's a question with as many "right" answers as there are people asking it. There are a multitude of ways to approach it - weight vs. dollars is only one.

Are your longer BW trips going to be longer in days, distance (and portaging), or both? If you're not going to travel/portage much, it won't make as much difference.

I started upgrading to lighter equipment quite a few years ago for the purpose of making longer trips in both days and distance, often with considerable portaging. It doesn't get easier with age. The more days I'm out there, the more food/fuel weight I have. The more I travel/portage, the more work it is to lift, load, carry stuff.

I pursued other strategies to lighten the load besides buying lighter equipment. The quickest and cheapest - zero dollars per pound - was simply to not take (or buy) some things. I also saved considerable weight at low cost by changing my menu to minimize excess food and "kitchen items".

I spent money on some good equipment that was lighter and more compact, but also better - tarp, shelter, sleeping bag, pad; sometimes you're getting a lot more than just weight savings. And don't underestimate the bulk factor - eventually you can use a smaller, lighter pack. Those are easier to handle than big, bulky ones.

Some of those were impulse buys when a really great deal popped up, but others were gradual purchases, one or two a year.

What purchases will give you the most bang for the buck depends on why you need it and how you'll use it. I spent money for a CCS tarp - it's lighter and more compact and bigger and better. I spent good money for a sleeping bag - same sort of thing. I got a much smaller, lighter pad on impulse because it was 40% off on the bargain shelf. I've picked up used stuff that saved weight at a lower cost.

There were some things I could have gotten a lighter one for no more dollars, but wasn't willing to make the tradeoffs.

To answer your question more directly, I bought the sleeping bag, but not the axe - I just left it at home and saved the dollars and the weight; same with the $125 chair.

Personally, I don't think ultralight is all that necessary in canoe country, but if you've got the money and like buying new gear, more power to you. :)

Honestly, a fully loaded pack weighs, what, 50/60/70 lbs? We're talking about a weight reduction of 1% or 2% or thereabouts....which I doubt is even noticeable. Now, if you upgrade *everything* to the lightest possible option, you might save some real weight, but even then, how long is that pack on your shoulders? Not very long, relatively speaking, even on the longest portages.

I have found that simply not bringing so much extra stuff does much, much more to reduce weight and (for me, more importantly) bulk than buying the expensive/light version of everything. Friends of mine bring tackle boxes full of stuff--and only use 3% of it. Or they'll bring many, many more clothes than necessary in the peak summer months. Or they'll want to bring an extra day or three worth of food. Or an extra stove and two extra canisters of fuel. Or they'll bring tennis shoes for around camp and a pair of Tevas for swimming. Maybe an extra fleece and hoodie. Etc. etc. etc.

Just my .02.

Minnesotian: "
For me, first and foremost, it has to be an upgrade in quality. Is it better built and will it last? It is a bonus if it’s dependability and multiusage leads to sheding weight.


I have also found that shedding weight hightlights one’s degree of comfort. Do I really need that 15 oz of whisky?


Oh yes. Yes I do. "

Fully agree with this...

Lightweight is awesome but an upgrade is only an upgrade if the quality improves.

For Philmont I bought a new pad, bag, and tent. $100/pound. Had I bought a new pack, I might have lowered it a few dollars. But they have lasted and I benefit from them in canoe country, even as I try to do more backpacking.

Jaywalker,

It occurred to my that I did not answer your question about whether I would pay $100 to save 2 lbs or 1 lb or 1/2 lb. I guess the honest answer is yes I would have in all cases. The only gear purchase I made this year was a new summer weight sleeping bag. In the past I've always used my 3 season bag or quilt in the summer, but decided to bite the bullet and add a summer weight sleeping bag. I bought it used and paid $250. My 3 season quilt weighs 21 ounces and my new (to me) summer sleeping bag weighs just over 12 ounces, so I paid $250 to save 8 ounces. To be honest though, I was thinking more about hiking trips than paddling when buying this and I most certainly don't need it ... just wanted it. Now that I have it, though, I have been using it on paddling trips.

On the other hand, if I could knock 2 lbs off of my paddling kit for a $100 dollars and have the same or better comfort I'd most certainly do it. Whether I like to admit it or not I'm in senior citizen territory and lighter gear definitely makes it easier for me to do the solo trips I prefer these days.

One last rambling thought ... in my experience durability definitely does not get better with the lightest gear. Lighter fabrics are almost always less durable. Does not mean lighter gear is going to self destruct if you look at it wrong, but generally ultralight gear requires a little more care. Just my 2 cents. Your thoughts and experience my be different.

I've reduced my load for the portages for a Sept. trip by #20, and it saved me $$ to do it. I lost weight, I quit eating so much junk food. I started buying ultra light gear when I was in my 60's to be able to still single trip the portages. I've never found the light stuff to be as durable ( especially canoes).That being said, , if properly handled, my gear will outlast my tripping days.

This spring I upgraded to a hammock, under quilt, top quilt, and light weight tarp. My pack weight not including food on my last trip was 23.5 pounds. What's that worth?

It is all about if you can afford it.

Canoe camping isn't back packing, stuff I would never take on a back packing trip goes on canoe trips.

Real food instead of freeze dried freeze dried only go along as a emergency supply.

Saw, axe, heavy cooking gear, lots of fishing tackle, ect.

I don't get to concerned about weight of gear when canoe camping but also I don't take extra heavy things.

Again if you want it and can afford it go for it.

I spend money to upgrade to lighter weight equipment but only when I've used gear enough to get my money's worth out of it. Only time I upgraded without fully using gear until it was time to upgrade was when I went to a quilt. That was a features change I wanted as my sleeping bag is referred to as a 1/2 zip and I was tired of using it.

To each their own. A lot of weight can be dropped as people have mentioned such as losing weight, not bringing so much stuff and switching to dehydrated food. Me, I like real food so I tend to bring 1-2 nights of real food.

When we went to a single portage system it became painfully obvious

A. we would need the lightest gear we could afford
B. Leave every non-essential item behind.

We double portaged this year and it felt like we were back to bringing the kitchen sink just because we could. For two people to single portage with real fishing gear included we had to get down to BA Copper Spur UL tent, Nemo UL sleeping pads, Sierra Designs 800 fill sleeping bags, CCS 1.1 rain fly, titanium cookware and not much of it etc.....

Where most people including us can really lose the pack weight is food. Nowadays have gotten down to instant oatmeal for breakfast, one pot rice or pasta meals for dinner and trail mix for lunch. All very light weight and minimal cooking so not much fuel needed either. We can eat like kings when we get out. We got tired of taking in a bunch of good food only to not eat it and pack it back out.


My 0.02

When I was 22 and first buying gear for backpacking, I bought the nicest stuff I could afford. I couldn't afford much, so I didn't buy the lightest gear. My backpack loads were 45-50 pounds for 3 day trips. That's a lot. As I have gotten older and needed to replace gear, each new piece was a lot lighter that its predecessor - it was also more expensive. But, I was also buying better gear... and I would gladly pay $100 for a better backpack/sleeping bag/whatever if it was both better and lighter than what I was already carrying. My last backpacking trip was with a new pack, a new sleeping bag, new pad, lighter stove and kitchen/stove kit and it was less than #35 when all packed. Part of the conservation of weight leads to a conservation of space, making for a much lighter pack - you don't need one that is as large to haul all your crap around. So not only will you reduce weight with improved materials and construction, but the pack can be smaller overall. 10-15 pounds reduction isn't 1-2% ... we're talking 25-30% weight reduction. Yes, 1-2% reduction per piece may be accurate, but when you talk about an overall picture, it's significant, and well worth it to me. Your mileage may vary.

If it's gear I need to replace anyway, and I'm more comfortable financially than I was when I was 22, it's a no-brainer to me to get the more expensive, lighter piece of gear - as long as it's also an upgrade or the same in quality.

Price is something I relate to quality and usability. Weight is a factor in how usable something is but it is not the only factor. $100 to save 1 1/2 to 2 lbs? Maybe depending on what it is and other differences. Usually something has to be different to justify spending that much more because a decrease in weight only usually means a drop in durability. I would want to see how they saved that weight to ensure that it was worth the price and that there are not consequences to the decreased weight.

How necessary an item is, is a factor too. My knock off chair that I bought for $30 compared to the $125 version is justifiable because if it fails then I sit on a log. A tent or something else that is essential is something I am more likely to spend more on to have good features, low weight and durable.

Other things, I'm going to ignore weight for the most part. Like my alcohol, or my pack. I don't care how much my pack itself weighs. I'd rather have the belt strap than not, even if it adds a few ounces of weight, and for alcohol I just bring what I plan on drinking and don't worry about the weight at all. I cut down on the weight on other things so I can bring luxuries like that. If there is something that will make your life easier out there, just grab it unless you are already too heavy.

If it comes down to a couple pounds total, then I would not worry about it. But if this year I can buy a new sleeping bag that compresses further and is a pound or 2 lighter, then next year I can upgrade my tarp or food pack then eventually you end up with nicer gear that is pretty light weight and hopefully I have a second set of gear that my son can use when he gets old enough. This would decrease the starting cost of him going the first time and also provide backups in case my brothers want to go and are missing some gear or if something of mine fails and I haven't bought a replacement yet. That or sell the spares to help pay for the new stuff.

I have evaluated almost every piece of gear I own with the intention of saving space and weight while keeping or improving quality.

But much is about perspective. Learning to be content with what position one finds themselves in life is key to contentment and satisfaction. Is spending $400 or more on a down bag going to cause significant financial stress in order to save 1 or 2 lbs really worth it?

If you have heavy gear and spending big bucks to upgrade is not an attractive option just triple portage instead of double. It's not such a big deal.

I have upgraded all my gear to about the best I can find and I still triple.

I was and am a UL Backpacker first, so this is a topic I have put a lot of thought into.

My approach was analytic, mostly, and I knocked off the best bang (weight reduction) for the buck items first and over a number of years.

I have a few last items I am hesitant to pull the trigger on due to cost, and these items are generally $20 or more per ounce saved. I can afford them now, but it's the principle of the thing...

Lots of folks here clearly don't care about weight. No worries and to each their own...but I would suggest, if you have not already, exploring backpackinglight.com forums as well as the Ultralight sub on Reddit. Those folks do care about weight. Lots of applicable stuff for paddlers who want to lighten their load.

And/or maybe we need a Special Interest Forum for UL Paddling here at bwca.com?

Cheers.

Thanks for the resources sns. Im "trying' to backpack more, but wont give up canoeing. I'm envious of those who get under 30 pounds. I'd love to get under 40.

billconner: "Thanks for the resources sns. Im "trying' to backpack more, but wont give up canoeing. I'm envious of those who get under 30 pounds. I'd love to get under 40."

It's a process.

For me it has taken many years but I can now head out to CO for 10 days of solo backpacking, expecting nights to get as low as 20 degrees, with a 15 lb base weight and about 27 lb with food.

I saw someone else on this site recently say that they go 'backpacking with a canoe.'

I concur. With a canoe...and a paddle. And a PFD. And fishing gear. And a camp chair.

Backpacking with a canoe/paddles/etc is my approach. To me, portages aren't fun... they're how to get to the fun. I'd rather make them as pleasant as possible, and that means as light as possible.

I think it depends on how much portaging you do and how long you have to get where you are going and how far you travel. If single portaging is necessary than light weight gear is imperative. If you portage a lot than light weight gear will usually be worth it in the long run. If a trip has only a mile or two of portaging, it probably isn't worth spending a ton. Age and strength is also a factor. Since becoming weight conscious,and much older, I cut around 25# but have added back about 5 for luxury items. One of our last trips had us on the portage trail 23 miles, and for us every pound counted. I would pay 100.00 per lb of weight cut all day long. Cutting pounds is the best way to do this in to your older years.

Weight is certainly one aspect of it all but the other and almost as important (to me at least) is bulk.

Spend the money on things you can reduce both weight & bulk while maintaining for increasing quality :)