I am in the midst of a discussion with other paddle folks and I want your input. When organizing a group of 6-9 people, how do you determine the amount of personal stuff each can bring? Size of pack, shared packs, weigh per person? We usually share standard #3 Duluth Packs. Two people in one pack for clothes, personal items, sleeping bags and sometimes parts of a tent. How about you?

That's what we do with scouts. Tent, sleeping bags, mats, clothes and personal items for 2 all in 1 pack. Great way to weed out the unnecessary items!

We do a max of 2 packs per canoe plus each person gets a day pack.
The 2 packs/canoe carry everything.

We have a common pack(s) for supplies (kitchen, tents & food) and "take turns" caring on portages. As far as personal stuff we say "you bring than you carry it". Never had an issue with this plan.

We have this dilemma every trip. We start with a planing meeting and tell our group not to overpack gear and clothing. We give the new group members a suggested list and a few emails so we don’t have duplicates on gear. We tell the guys we have to get the gear into the vehicles, into the canoes, over the Portage’s. With that said it’s their vacation too so we leave it at that. We’ve had guys show up with 4 packs of gear and clothes and fishing tackle boxes. We also tell the guys that they will have extra group gear that will need to fit in their canoe like food packs, cooking gear.

Don't fall for the "you bring it, then you carry it" strategy for personal gear. For every extra pound of personal stuff a gear-hog brings, that is one less pound of group gear they can carry, which is made up by someone else having to carry it. In effect, you are carrying their excess gear!

We do exactly what you laid out Grandma L. Two people - lots of stuff sacks - all personal items, clothes, sleeping and shelter in one pack (helps to use the CCS Pioneer); plus two packs - one food and one camp gear. That's 2 trips for 2 people - and I almost always tandem.

bobbernumber3: "Don't fall for the "you bring it, then you carry it" strategy for personal gear. For every extra pound of personal stuff a gear-hog brings, that is one less pound of group gear they can carry, which is made up by someone else having to carry it. In effect, you are carrying their excess gear!"

Exactly!

Also space in a canoe is limited. Opening the door with the "you bring it, you carry it" concept limits the amount of space you have in the canoe for the essential gear the entire group needs.

So far every trip I've been on we met as a group either the night before or a few days before we entered. We gathered all gear and compared personal gear to see what duplicates we had and which of the duplicated items was the preferred to bring along. It also gives us a chance to compare personal gear and see what and how much people are bringing. I think when people see what other people are bringing it helps them to self limit a bit. Usually it seems like the heaviest packer sees how much less other people are bringing and then it starts a conversation about what we feel is really going to be needed, why someone feels one piece of gear is needed or not, or what value does that extra item offer. During these discussions weeding out the unnecessary gear seems to happen naturally and without much conflict. Usually the "you want it, you carry it" comes down to one item at most that has a negligible impact on the group as a whole.

Tomorrow we leave with 3 adults and 5 kids ages 8-13. They take their pads, bags, cook set, clothes and any personal stuff they would like. We buy our kids quality gear on sale when we can find it and hand it down as needed. They know that they will have to carry their packs so they are mindful of what they put in them.

bobbernumber3: "Don't fall for the "you bring it, then you carry it" strategy for personal gear. For every extra pound of personal stuff a gear-hog brings, that is one less pound of group gear they can carry, which is made up by someone else having to carry it. In effect, you are carrying their excess gear!"

+1
You will end up carrying what they can't or waiting on them at portages.

WE go tandem and each two people get their own pack for tent, pads, sleeping bags, clothes and shoes. Newbies get #4s, vets get CCS pioneers. WE max out a seven people. So the odd man gets a luxurious #3. Kitchen/camp, food goes in "others". We call our #4 the pregnant cow and hope it gets back without birthing a calf. This year on the last day the newbies pack became filler for the now empty food packs. Everyone is allowed a day pack for fishing and rain gear.

Maybe I have it easier being that I am outfitting my group of four and they just need to be responsible for their personal items and clothes, but I provide a personal packing list which includes recommended quantities, and a day or two before we leave everyone brings their gear over and we pack everything as a group. We double portage, so each person gets a CCS Pioneer pack, and between those four packs, one food barrel with harness and one CCS Deluxe food pack for the kitchen and camp furniture we have more than enough room for all of our gear. The packs are weighed to ensure equitable disbursement of weight. That puts three packs in each canoe.

It would not be good if I 'told' my bride of 144 years how much to carry.... "Happy wife...happy life"

somehow it all fits...

I think if we would have had backpacking experience in our younger days we would learn to be more disciplined

we are not "lean mean paddling machines" anyway

drbob

Make BeaV carry it. :O)

With that many people packing ahead of time as a group makes a lot of sense. My rule of thumb is personal gear for 2 people in one pack. I use Boudary Water Journal Ultimate packs 7000 cu In. Depending on group size and trip length 1 pack for equipment like tents and coooking gear and another for food. With a small enough group equipment and food can also go in the same pack.

I think it's already been addressed in more detail above but it's whatever fits into the canoes that you are taking. Standard packing for us on four-person excursion usually entails a portage pack per person and day pack. If I'm carrying for my family, I bring a 50-liter blue barrel and granite gear harness and maybe a separate pack for the fishing gear. Go with whatever works for your group.

We always have four or six guys, two per canoe. Each canoe is responsible for their tent or solo tents if they so desire. Everyone is responsible ther own sleeping bag/pad clothing, fishing equipment and any personal items so each person has his own main personal pack and day pack. All food, cooking gear and community gear (axe, saw,ropes, tarps etc) are split evenly between the canoes. As far as personal gear you bring what you will carry double portaging. I’m pretty sure if anyone was tripping with us and tried to tell one of us how many shirts we would be allowed to bring, you would be able to hear the laughing in Ely and we live in northern Michigan. We have never had a problem with this. Since community gear is split up equally before we go, we know we don’t have duplication. Our camp cook sends out the menu for everyone to approve then some or all get together for the shopping trip, last minute changes, and a toast of single malt to start the countdown.

I have #3 and #4 Duluth Packs. I think a #3 is too small for two people to share. I prefer a #4 for two people and their gear. I also encourage use of a dry bag for all their personal stuff. Two dry bags and two sleeping bags that stuff small fill the #4.

bobbernumber3: "Don't fall for the "you bring it, then you carry it" strategy for personal gear. For every extra pound of personal stuff a gear-hog brings, that is one less pound of group gear they can carry, which is made up by someone else having to carry it. In effect, you are carrying their excess gear!"

Well said - I will remember that for our next Thursday packing meeting.

WhiteWolf: "Make BeaV carry it. :O)"

That was good!! I was just chatting about that very situation.
The trip I am planning for will not have BeaV - just 1 college grandson and 6 of his friends - Oh, and one aging Grandma makes 8! Pack your bag, Jeff - would love to have you along and it would be great training for you.

The only time we set goals like that was when we took six of our nephews and their Dad. We were providing a portgage pack per person. Each person got half a pack for clothes, sleeping bag, and pad. My wife and I do that same thing. With 9 people that left half of one of their packs for 1 or 2 tents. And then we had 4 more packs for cooking gear, the tarp, shared gear, other tents and food.

On other trips, we are all pretty experienced campers and each couple is in a canoe and is responsible for their clothes, sleeping stuff, and tent and a fair share food and shared gear. No need for much organization on those trips.

I've heard the 1/3rd rule for hiking and my experience show it to mostly be true. It says you can carry up to 1/3rd of your body weight without too much difficulty. So if I weigh 165lbs then I can carry 55lbs comfortably. Portaging isn't the same as hiking though so we can carry a bit more since we aren't carrying it all day. Last trip the canoe weighed 65lbs, and while it always sucks to carry, it wasn't that bad.

So to really use the 1/3rd rule, you need to split up the group gear and decide on single, double, or even triple portaging. My buddy and I usually go as just the 2 of us so we double portage. So, we try to balance the gear with the amount we carry compared to body weight. My buddy is about 30lbs of muscle heavier than me so he usually carries about 5-10lbs more. Other than that the group gear is split up pretty equally then we carry our own personal gear beyond that.

We also try to carry only gear we own, like when we bring my tarp I carry it. This means we both tend to accumulate everything we might need when don't go together, and when we spend a little extra to get something lighter or smaller, we get to benefit from it. Plus it is less work splitting everything up later on. A bigger group like yours could work the same way. The 'carry your own gear' part might apply to the canoe rather than the individual but the concept applies.

For years, one of the groups I went with every year brought a serapate food pack/communal etc. It became an ongoing hassle trying to get people to pack accordingly and not double up on gear that we just came up with a list of communal gear that we divide evenly among the group and then it was "every man for himself" after that. Each person needed to fit their alloted communal gear in their personal pack with their own gear and each guy carries their own pack. It's worked great for us and no more frustrations.

I always hated my number 3 packs. I had the envolope style. You'd never get what people saying in one of those. I think a #4 or a pioneer (ccs) is more doable. Maybe a personal pack for each person maybe #3 or ccs one smaller than pioneer... My favorite and I forgot what it's called. Haha.. so two personal packs, one food utility pack in each canoe equates to two trips each. Tents, tarps and such are divided up in personal packs.

My rule is the packs should never exceed the amount of people. Five people five packs, four people four packs two people two packs. Any fishing gear or any other similar accessory items must be carried by the person bringing it.

I guess I hate rules... Haha. That's why I canoe.

So we're saying you have to get everything into x number of packs, even though people just don't have all the latest stuff that might actually fit in said pack. You can even out loads and such whatever.

I let people make their own mistakes. Guide them, yes, dictate to them and you're bound to get a middle finger and a see ya later. (If not, they would wish they had by trip's end).

People I've known, young and old love, do their share and usually more. If you are keeping score who did what and all that, sounds like no fun to me. Usually peer pressure prevails and said slackers a term I'd use loosely figure it out. If I carry a little more than you, I'm not sweating the small stuff. 99% of the time, it's nothing. If I bring people out for the first time, I plan to do a little more than them to start. I'm probably the minority on this, but that's my take. Sometimes this works, sometimes that, we adapt!

Like Ben said - Plan to do a little more - if we all plan to do a little more than our "share" then it usually works out well.

I provide the gear, so I give each person a stuff sack and tell them they can take what fits in there!

Works pretty good!

We have one common "gear pack" then each person has one personal pack for their tent sleeping bag/pad and cloths and whatever else they want to bring. Then depending on the trip we have either one or two food packs.

I think the heaviest pack is around 45lbs, typically the gear pack. That will be trimmed down for next year to around 40lbs. Our personal packs vary in weight but are generally in the low 40's lbs range. Also hoping to trim down a bit for next year.

So for 4 guys we have four personal packs one gear back and at most two food packs for a total of seven packs. No loose items.

Most of the time, but not always the canoe is portaged with the person also carrying a pack. Depending on the portage and weather and how the person if feeling at the time.

We basically treat it like heavy and luxurious backpacking -- one person, one pack. If you can't fit it IN your pack, don't bring it. Lashed on stuff is discouraged, it gets hung up on trees. We single portage and switch off canoe carrying duty.

We each carry all our own gear, solo tents or hammocks and split the food and a tiny bit of shared gear like a saw, tarp, soft cooler and skillet. We use lightweight backpacking type gear and methods for most of our stuff to keep our base weights low, then add luxuries like half and half, steaks, and chairs that we would never take backpacking.

jcavenagh: "We do a max of 2 packs per canoe plus each person gets a day pack.
The 2 packs/canoe carry everything."

I tried this, ONCE, with my dad, who tends to pack like Diana Ross (a lot of clothes and stuff, but not dresses and gowns and such). He took advantage of the "day pack" idea to pack even more clothes, since he overloaded his clothes pack, expecting me to carry his "personal" items normally found in the day pack. Without going further into family drama, this did not end well.

So... careful with the day pack idea. I've found that if you can't fit what would go into a "day pack" into a thwart or bow bag, you got too much.

Mike

$200 oughtta do it.

jcavenagh: "We do a max of 2 packs per canoe plus each person gets a day pack.
The 2 packs/canoe carry everything."

+1 We did something very similar on the trips that I've been on. One canoe only had one pack and the big blue food barrel. This would be the only difference I can think of.

I send out a spreadsheet with a Group Gear tab, and a Personal Gear tab. I give everyone a column on the group gear tab and ask them to put an x in the row if they plan to bring that item (i.e. stove, or saw), then I adjust what I bring based on what others are bringing for group gear. I always bring my Coleman single burner stove and minimum cooking pans and utensils.

I tell everyone that the personal gear tab is just and suggested list and that they need not bring it all, and suggest that everyone try to keep there pack under 40 pounds, but I have had guys bring 60 pound packs.

Guys (most of my trips have been all guys) decide who will share tents (usually canoes mates also), and I suggest they have a heavy pack and a light pack for the guy carrying the canoe.

We have almost always managed to single portage which amazes me.

HayRiverDrifter, I like your approach. You provide info, help there be cooperation but aren’t overly prescriptive. And it sounds like it works with your group.

There are 6 women in our group. We have two food packs and a group gear pack. Three canoes. Everyone then has their own personal pack and a day pack. We double portage. It works perfectly. You either carry a canoe or a group/food pack on a portage. Then you carry your own pack and your day pack. I provide a packing list and each person makes their own decisions on what they want to pack and carry. I don’t dictate how much they should bring. They’re all adults and can figure it out for themselves what they want to bring from the packing list I provide.

I was contemplating this earlier today as I prepare to leave for my annual trip in just under 3 weeks. 4 guys, all FD food except some bagels, tortillas, shelf stable sausage, shelf stable cheese and snacks. I practice packed everything except our snacks today and it fit in a 30L blue barrel with a CCS Quad Harness. I was able to get our fuel and our gravity filter system in it also and it weighed under 30 lbs.

In addition to the barrel pack we are going to try to fit everything else into a CCS Guide, a CCS Pioneer, and a CCS Explorer. We still have a CCS Bushcrafter, a #3 Duluth Pack, and a #4 Duluth Pack if needed but we are going to try to stick with 4 packs and do 1.5 portages. The food barrel is the lightest so that guy caries all the paddles. Our shelter is a CCS Lean 3+ so that saves a lot of weight and bulk. That is the only concern we have... will it be large enough for 4 people? Technically we each will have a space 30" by 10'. We are base camping less than 4 hours from the EP so we feel good about it. If it doesn't work someone will have to go back for the Copper Spur 4P. Then again it's small and light so we just may bring it with.

I've enjoyed reading these posts and learning how others go about it. Every year our gear gets less and lighter. I don't think we will get any more efficient than this trip except we could leave the Helinox chairs behind but they are the one luxury item that everyone takes.

I have led several trips of 6-9 people using 18.5 ft. Alumnacraft canoes where we single portaged. My weight limit for their stuff, including sleeping bag and pad, extra clothes and lightweight shoes, jacket, toiletries and sleeping clothes, is 12 - 13 lbs. each, which can fit in a 35-40 liter dry bag. That way I can get four of their dry bags in a big portage pack and keep it to around 60-65 lbs. I also outfit my trippers with a Mountainsmith Day Lumbar Pack with 800 cu. in. capacity that allows them to carry another 10 lbs. or so of items including snacks, rain gear, GPS, compass, camera, phone, headlamp, sunscreen, a little Deet spray bottle, headnet, knife, firemaking supplies, pocket knife, a 2 gallon zip lock bag to put folded up maps in, etc. They carry the lumbar pack in their front or back if they are carrying a canoe, and in the front or carried by its top handles if they are carrying a portage pack. They wear their PFDs and the paddles are either wedged in the canoes between the yoke thwart and seat or carried by people carrying packs. I do not allow a bunch of loose crap in canoes which makes efficient portaging impossible.

On our family trips I basically do the packing and let my wife/daughters bring a few small incidentals (books, card games, drawing pad, special blanket/stuffed animal etc). We really limit our packing to the minimum required for the circumstances (weather, time of year, trip length). The only creature comforts we bring are our REI flexlite chairs and medium sized Thermarest pillows.

Bottom line is that all food/gear/clothing had to fit in 4 packs (2 GG Solo, CCS Explorer, CCS Pioneer).

Duckman: "I provide the gear, so I give each person a stuff sack and tell them they can take what fits in there!


Works pretty good!"

+1