Each trip I take in she shoulder season, if I am with a group, starts with a quick discussion in regard to what to do if a canoe dumps in the cold water with cool air temperatures. Variables alway include one or two canoes, wind, where you dump, etc. I always think it is useful to have a plan just in case.

Soooooo, do each of you have a plan? Starting with PFD use, of course. I have found different tripmates have different perspectives, not right or wrong but just different.

Thoughts? Seems timely to think about it at this time of year.

I carry a dump bag with extra clothes, firestarter, blanket, etc. my plan is get to the nearest shore and start a fire, get dry, change, and be on my way. Thank God I have never had to execute my “plan”

I have a dump bag, too. Its dry bag with a towel, a change of clothes, a paraffin fire starter and a space blanket. It attaches to a thwart, I don't have to go searching through a pack for all the items. It is most important to get wet clothes off, get dry and dressed in warm clothes FAST. I would do the fire if I needed, but not until I am dry. I would get into my sleeping bag before I would think about a fire unless there is a pile of wood ready.

I don't get to the BWCA in shoulder seasons, but I paddle in cold water season all winter in Georgia. I wear my old extrasport vest PFD which is warm and wind resistant. I don't tend to wear it much in the summer. I don't take chances with long open water crossing in the winter. I figure in January down here I would have 20 minutes max in the water before becoming impaired so I stay pretty close to shore. The older I get the shorter that time to impairment.

I stay closer to shore during cold water season, and I'm more careful about what kind of wind I'm out in.

I also keep a dump kit vacuumed-sealed in my life jacket. Includes fire-starter, matches, lighter, duct tape, string, emergency blanket and emergency bivy. I have a whistle and LED attached to the life jacket.

I use liners in my packs so they should stay dry.

Only time I'm tipped during cold water was two days after ice out on the Phoebe River paddling up some current. We rode the current with the canoe about 20 yards, before pulling over and pulling ourselves and the packs out of the creek/river. We changed immediately into dry clothes. Gear pack stayed dry, food pack got soaked. Thankfully it was lower 60s when we tipped. We were only in the water maybe 30 seconds and adrenaline kept the body temp up while we changed.

Had to go retrieve one paddle and a Naglene downstream, then we bush-whacked around the rapids. This was just west of Knight Lake. Water was REALLY high.

yep, close to shore would be my motto.

My plan is wear my PFD that has two ways of starting a fire in the pockets. Then swim to the nearest campsite and start a huge fire with all the chopped and stacked wood left there.

walllee: "I carry a dump bag with extra clothes, firestarter, blanket, etc. my plan is get to the nearest shore and start a fire, get dry, change, and be on my way. Thank God I have never had to execute my “plan”"

+1. Ditch bag and "a plan" are key at that time of year!

Plan ahead! I pretty much only trip in the fall these days. I stay closer to shore than in the summer. I make sure that my gear is packed in a waterproof bag and that I have dry clothes and a sleeping bag at the top along with fire starting materials. In my ditch bag I also have an emergency shelter that I can crawl into if needed. We normally have 4 people and two canoes and if someone goes over they know to head straight to shore. The other guys will bring them their emergency gear (if left behind) then go back for the canoe. Nobody tries to enter the uncompromised canoe putting more people in danger. I also don't connect the packs to the canoe this time of year. I want to be able to grab my pack and head to shore and not try to unhook a pack or pull a canoe along. My InReach is connected to my PFD. I have the outfitters info in the InReach in case I need to summon them for non-emergency type help. I wouldn't hesitate for a second hitting the SOS button however.

@ Northwoodsman: Pretty thorough precautions. Everybody in your group knows what to do in case of dumping. Important when the water you are floating in is robbing muscles of body heat.

Whenever I see posts on the subject matter, I think of the couple who were seasoned campers & canoers from Forest Lake, MN. They drowned in autumn cold water of Alton Lake. It can happen so fast. Get to shore pronto!

Some years ago i dumped in midfle of (Q) Sunday Lake in mid-October. I think it took 35-45 minutes to get to shore. 2 of us. Floated, "swam", to shore with packs. Made camp, changed, fire, ate, tent, and so on. It was first day of 6. Finished trip. Love those heavy outfitter plastic liners. Nothing was even damp, even after floating and bobbing in white caps.

Lessons learned: avoid canoes with a lot of rocker (i learned about rocker after thst trip), don't think you have to get somewhere, and stay close to shore. The fellow I was with - who owned the canoe and insisted on stern - prided himself gor going straight regardless of wind. We were pretty sideways to the wind. Never saw him again after the trip.

Savage Voyageur: "My plan is wear my PFD that has two ways of starting a fire in the pockets. Then swim to the nearest campsite and start a huge fire with all the chopped and stacked wood left there. "

Unless someone camping across the lake was there before you and took the wood.

A word of caution about having your critical survival needs vacuumed sealed and safely stowed in your life jacket pocket..........

I use ZipLock brand vacuum sealer bags (roll type) for both the food I put in the freezer and my survival gear stowed in my life jacket pockets. A couple years back I tried tearing into a bag that had my fire starter kit. No can do.

Have you ever tried to tear a bag open that is made from the plastic used for vacuum bags?? Now think about what strength you might have left in hands that are freezing. Start fumbling for a knife to cut the bag?

What I did for my life jacket kits were to "snip" slits on the bag edge (outside the vacuumed area). When you tear on the slit, the bags opens without much effort.

GraniteCliffs: "Each trip I take in she shoulder season, if I am with a group, starts with a quick discussion in regard to what to do if a canoe dumps in the cold water with cool air temperatures. Variables alway include one or two canoes, wind, where you dump, etc. I always think it is useful to have a plan just in case.

Soooooo, do each of you have a plan? Starting with PFD use, of course. I have found different tripmates have different perspectives, not right or wrong but just different.

Thoughts? Seems timely to think about it at this time of year. "

* EMERGENCY kit in my life jacket, and backups in pockets, etc,etc of my cloths. I'm not always in the vest, but I try to be. Single most important thing is matches or fire method....PERIOD.......Nothing else matters.

* Dump Bag always in front of me in the canoe. if I'm going over, I'm grabbing that bag, PERIOD.....Not my 2000 dollars of fishing equipment that will belong to a dead man.

IN the Dump Bag, depending on the time of year........

* More Fire starting equipment.
* Rescue blanket.......the thicker ones, not those little mylar things.
* snacks usually
* Rain gear
* fleece
* quick fly ( I've only ever used this one time...but it was GREAT).
* spare socks.........note: rain gear works as my spare cloths....
* spare multi-tool

There is a bunch of other stuff in my Dump Bag, including first aid kit, and a sam splint, and a locator, if I'm taking one.....

Sometimes my water pump is in the bag sometimes not, depends on timing.

Also, I should say, if the weather and the water are not horrible, sometimes my rain gear is not in the bag, but 90% of the time it is. If the weather is bad, I may be wearing it, which kind of screws me, but Rain gear doesn't saturate like other stuff, and I can generally get by with it, even if it is soaking wet. Maybe that is a bad choice, I don't know as I've never been in that situation, yet......

billconner: "Some years ago i dumped in midfle of (Q) Sunday Lake in mid-October. I think it took 35-45 minutes to get to shore. 2 of us. Floated, "swam", to shore with packs. Made camp, changed, fire, ate, tent, and so on. It was first day of 6. Finished trip. Love those heavy outfitter plastic liners. Nothing was even damp, even after floating and bobbing in white caps.


Lessons learned: avoid canoes with a lot of rocker (i learned about rocker after thst trip), don't think you have to get somewhere, and stay close to shore. The fellow I was with - who owned the canoe and insisted on stern - prided himself gor going straight regardless of wind. We were pretty sideways to the wind. Never saw him again after the trip. "

That's a crazy story. I'd be interested to hear more about the trip dynamics for the rest of the trip. :)

carmike: "

billconner: "Some years ago i dumped in midfle of (Q) Sunday Lake in mid-October. I think it took 35-45 minutes to get to shore. 2 of us. Floated, "swam", to shore with packs. Made camp, changed, fire, ate, tent, and so on. It was first day of 6. Finished trip. Love those heavy outfitter plastic liners. Nothing was even damp, even after floating and bobbing in white caps.



Lessons learned: avoid canoes with a lot of rocker (i learned about rocker after thst trip), don't think you have to get somewhere, and stay close to shore. The fellow I was with - who owned the canoe and insisted on stern - prided himself gor going straight regardless of wind. We were pretty sideways to the wind. Never saw him again after the trip. "

That's a crazy story. I'd be interested to hear more about the trip dynamics for the rest of the trip. :) "

Better tale for a wing night I think.

I always make double sure if I dump I will have a dry sleeping bag and clothes. It is so easy to use waterproof bags inside your pack. Nothing like a warm sleeping bag after a day in cold rain also.

We’re heading to Ely next week and so I’m reading this with interest. Honestly, if it’s in the 40’s we may hike rather than paddle.

One thing that is interesting is that the great advice in his tread focuses on how to recover from being cold and wet. The alternative approach used by serious sea kayakers is to dress for immersion so that a capsize is not going to make you cold. The standard is that you should be willing to take a dip in the water before launching. And some people do just that to check their gear. One difference is that in a sea kayak you are sitting closer to the water and that may help you stay cool while wearing a wet or dry suit. Also, if you aren’t wearing immersion gear than rolling is a problem. And rolling is another way people cool off on warmer days.

I have dumped twice and will affirm I did not see it coming either time. In both cases I do not recall feeling cold until the shock wore off. That shock can mask an injury, too. Remember once safe check things over.
Most points are covered in making a good recovery. Loose items are a problem if you do not want to lose them. Know what you need and what pack it is in and be willing to leave things you will not need. Time is critical. I use a NorthFace small water resistant duffle both as day pack and as critical needs pack. I am confident I can get to shore with it or I am not on the water.
I found some good military training helped me focus, but the OP raises a good point. Most of us are not trained to respond in critical incidents so being prepared and even rehearsal are excellent things to do. People can panic and/or just freeze up and that can make things worse.

In addition to having the ditch kit at the ready, whether in a kayak or canoe, go to your local lake mid summer and dump the boat, do it with packs, do it with your ditch bag and try to swim to shore, you can plan all day but nothing beats experience at refining your plan. The paddle you were using will be lost, the boat will not sink, your secondary paddle properly lashed will be with the boat, your packs will float a surprisingly long time, once these things are known and accepted it becomes much easier to concentrate on the tasks at hand. I paddle year round on rivers that don't tend to freeze up in Northern WI and MN, when we had the "blizzard" this spring I went out for a paddle. The key is to make the worst case scenario routine long before it is life threatening.

mjmkjun: "@ Northwoodsman: Pretty thorough precautions. Everybody in your group knows what to do in case of dumping. Important when the water you are floating in is robbing muscles of body heat


Whenever I see posts on the subject matter, I think of the couple who were seasoned campers & canoers from Forest Lake, MN. They drowned in autumn cold water of Alton Lake. It can happen so fast. Get to shore pronto! "

That was so sad.. It was a very windy day in Wisconsin when they died. It appeared they went in an empty canoe (I have never heard for sure what brand/ model canoe) to get water or something like that... I know my SR canoe is a whole lot more stable loaded down rather than empty. The did have their pfd's on.. With the wind they just could not make it to shore. what REALLY Pi--ed me off was hearing a certain outfitter speaking at one of the Canoecopia seminars that next spring. He mentioned that tragedy and then in the same breath mentioned to always wear you pfd...inferring in my mind that they were not wearing theirs... did not like that inference at all...

dr bob

bhouse46: "I have dumped twice and will affirm I did not see it coming either time. In both cases I do not recall feeling cold until the shock wore off. That shock can mask an injury, too. Remember once safe check things over.
Most points are covered in making a good recovery. Loose items are a problem if you do not want to lose them. "

Very good description of my single experience. I lost my hat. Oddly, I don't recall being cold.

Does anyone know of a good information resource describing self-rescue after capsizing in cold water?

The funny part about dumping in cold water I found was it didn't feel as cold as I thought it would. But when I did got to shore it took a little to stand up.
Wool is your friend when it's cooler... I always think about Mr Cooke when he went through the ice and got a nice dunking. He was able to go to shore, wring out his clothes and away he went. You don't do that with cotton.

billconner: "

bhouse46: "I have dumped twice and will affirm I did not see it coming either time. In both cases I do not recall feeling cold until the shock wore off. That shock can mask an injury, too. Remember once safe check things over.
Most points are covered in making a good recovery. Loose items are a problem if you do not want to lose them. "

Very good description of my single experience. I lost my hat. Oddly, I don't recall being cold."

I dumped open duck hunting 2 weeks ago. My dad made a dumb move and stood up in the canoe. I had my back to him and had no idea what was going on until I was halfway in the water. Luckily we only got rocked out instead of fully capsizing, but it sure was a shock to hit the water. I panicked momentarily swimming with all my gear on before I realized I could touch bottom, it was about 4 1/2 - 5 feet deep. I never went under and wasn't wearing a life jacket but I still remember the panic of hitting the water, especially when it was a little cold.

I don't remember feeling cold right away either though. It later after my boots were on the bottom and I was assessing the situation that I started to get cold. It didn't help that I had dropped my gun as I fell in and it was a swampy bottom full of branches and roots. We spent 20-30 min in the water before finding it. Luckily my brothers were there to give us moral support and take a picture to remember the event.

Honestly if it weren't for the shallow bottom I don't know how we would have gotten the water out so we could get back in the boat. We probably would have put the life jackets on, but I had to lift the canoe out of the water and tip it to drain the water out. Maybe if we didn't have gear still in the boat that we were worried about losing it would have been easier. That reminds me to look into a video of how to deal with that situation if it happens again.

A1t20 - I was in a similar situation in water just a little deeper than you. My feet were stuck to the bottom and I couldn't move. The water was up to my neck and I was trying to reach for my floating life jacket. Once I reached it I thought I was safe. Have you ever tried to put a life jacket on in water up to your neck? It's a skill that's for sure. I haven't been in a canoe, boat, or on a pontoon without wearing a PFD since. In your case what if a gun would have discharged and hit you, anyplace? With the shock of the cold water combined with a gunshot you may not have been here to post this. Please everyone, wear your PFD's! If you planned for a drowning it wouldn't be a drowning it would be called swimming.

Normally I do wear my life jacket. The only time I don't is when I go hunting. The reason being that it affects my shooting and we are never in water that is too deep to stand in. This spot we were hunting in was deeper than normal, otherwise I would have worn waders and stood in the water. I guess it is worth noting that we hunted the next day too and didn't wear life jackets in the blind then either.

The point of my post was to share my experience and highlight the importance of knowing what to do ahead of time. We were clueless as to how to get the water out of the boat. We only managed because I lifted the boat out of the water to drain it. For someone in deeper water, you would need a plan, like taking everything out of the canoe and dumping it, or trying the rocking method to splash the water out. Or having something like a bucket to bail the water out.

Whether you dump your gear or try to drain the canoe with your gear still in there, you are going to need to plan ahead and probably want to make sure that everything is as waterproof as possible and floats. I think I've seen rod floats that go right above the reel and make your rod float in the water.

As to the comment about the benefit of a life jacket if I got shot... If I was shot by a shotgun at that close of range and fell in the water, I would be dead anyways. Shotguns are nasty and there are few shotgun wounds where wearing a lifejacket would make any difference at all. In fact, drowning before the shock wears off and you feel yourself bleed out would be a better way to die.

Since nctry brought it up, here is the story. I did go through the ice on Omega Lake while on a solo canoeing adventure one 50°? day (April 1, and no the irony was not lost on me ). I had started my day on Gaskin and portage into Winchell one windless day. After doing a walkabout on the eastern end hills I made my way down a waveless Winchell, stopping to dry everything to a bone dry condition as I watched the first butterflies flitter about on the last campsite along the north shore of Winchell before the portage into Omega.
Getting to omega was an easy carry. There was 150 foot of ice in the bay where the portage was, the sun could not hit this for long each day because of a shadow made by the hill and trees. The ice had melted for the first 5 feet or so by shore so I bridged the canoe and walked through the canoe to the ice shelf.
Sliding the loaded canoe along the ice was easy, I had to do this also on Poplar Lake to get to the Lizz Lake portage. I decided to take a picture of my feet next to the canoe standing on the ice. After taking the picture I set the camera down in front of my kneeling position in case I would happen to see some wildlife later. I grabbed my bent shaft paddle and lifted one foot as the ice gave way in an instant. Surprised to say the least. I was facing away from shore, I had on a wool long sleeve long john shirt and pants a light weight pair of hiking pants, Chota mukluks, life jacket and hat, no outer shirt it was about 50° and sunny that day.
I only went down breast deep into the water, thinking that was stupid. I did a scissor kick (as I could not touch bottom) and rotated in my hole through the ice. I looked to see how far back to shore and thought this may be hard, maybe very hard. I tried twice to scissor kick and get up onto the ice, each time breaking the ice. It was looking like it was going to be the very hard. I bobbed briefly touched bottom springing off and and gave another scissor kick and the ice held. I belly squirmed away from the hole and cautiously arose to a standing position and grabbed the end of the canoe and slid it toward shore as I made my way to the shore edge of the ice. After pushing one end of the canoe to shore I jumped the narrow water near shore. On shore I realized that I was not that cold, but knew I needed to get out of the wet clothes. Taking off the clothes and wringing out the water I decided to put the wet long johns and socks back on, leaving off my outer pants. I figured my wool would dry quickly once I got to paddling and the sunshine.
So off across the ice and to the sun. As I slid me and the canoe into the water at the edge of the ice I settled in to the canoe. Once settled I decided to take a picture of my folly as I had ruminated on the date of all of this. As I looked through the viewfinder of the camera I started to laugh as I saw my pants on the rock at the end of the portage. So back across the ice I went and retrieved my pants.
Things I attribute to a favorable outcome. A snug PFD,Chota mukluks, cold water training and the grace of God. The PFD left no room for water interchange on my upper body. My long john top was wet but the snug PFD was not allowing new water to take away more heat. The Chota Mukluks gave me added buoyancy and also did not fill with totally with water. From my training I have done at least 7 fall through the ice with clothes on and once extracted to change into dry clothes and continue the day outdoors with no fire or shelter used to warm up. And I can't add a thing to God's grace.

I often dump in cold weather...I'm surprised more of you don't. I prefer to do it in the thunderbox, however, as it is easier than out in the lake.

Geez Dan, you seem to remember it like it was yesterday. Haha. One thing I've never done is that polar plunge. I've sauna'd and jumped into the kawisawa river just after ice out. But never through the ice. I now wonder if that is that bad... Because I've heard it and experienced capsizing in cold water and it really wasn't that bad... Until I got out.