(R) bill would reverse BWCA protection

It's the "Export the Wealth from Minnesota Natural Resources to Chile" bill...

We have to keep protecting it,sad thing is it only takes one day, one hour to lose it forever.
I truly don't think this bill will go anywhere.

Pinetree: "We have to keep protecting it,sad thing is it only takes one day, one hour to lose it forever..."

I messaged the Representative... had to claim a Duluth zip and address... and my message matched yours. Once gone, you can't get it back!

Feel free to let the author of this bill, Representative Pete Stauber of MN-Distric 8, know your opinon. H.R. 3195

I remember 1978 I think it was, when the BW was protected in a big way. The current effort to eliminate the protection just shows you that nothing like this is ever permanent.

My mother came from Colorado and when I was a kid my grandfather would take into the mountains to old ghost towns which were mining towns where it appeared everything was simply abandoned when the mine was closed. It didn’t appear much of anything was cleaned up.

As someone already pointed out, this will probably mostly benefit a foreign company and could be automated enough that the local jobs may not be many.

deerfoot: "I remember 1978 I think it was, when the BW was protected in a big way. The current effort to eliminate the protection just shows you that nothing like this is ever permanent.


My mother came from Colorado and when I was a kid my grandfather would take into the mountains to old ghost towns which were mining towns where it appeared everything was simply abandoned when the mine was closed. It didn’t appear much of anything was cleaned up.


As someone already pointed out, this will probably mostly benefit a foreign company and could be automated enough that the local jobs may not be many."

Ten years ago in Twin Mines own report they said 20% of hired people would be local and mine would run for 20 years.

I’m thankful for organizations like sportsmen for the boundary waters who tirelessly work to counter this stuff. It’s a game that requires constant vigilance. One year they are celebrating a major victory and 6 months later some elected twerp introduces a bill that would undo all the hard work. Progress is always potentially temporary. Exhausting stuff.

" How we treat our land, how we build upon it, how we act toward our air and water, will in long run tell what kind of people we really are"
Laurence S. Rockefeller

Pinetree: "

deerfoot: "I remember 1978 I think it was, when the BW was protected in a big way. The current effort to eliminate the protection just shows you that nothing like this is ever permanent.



My mother came from Colorado and when I was a kid my grandfather would take into the mountains to old ghost towns which were mining towns where it appeared everything was simply abandoned when the mine was closed. It didn’t appear much of anything was cleaned up.



As someone already pointed out, this will probably mostly benefit a foreign company and could be automated enough that the local jobs may not be many."

Ten years ago in Twin Mines own report they said 20% of hired people would be local and mine would run for 20 years."

I guess I am skeptical of industry claims of employment numbers, etc because I feel they often over promise and under deliver once they get what they want.

I live in Racine County Wisconsin where Foxconn promised 13K jobs and conned huge incentives from our former governor and utterly failed to deliver citing “changes in the marketplace.” The citizens of Racine are on the hook for hundreds of millions of taxpayer backed bonding for infrastructure which Foxconn demanded. Although Foxconn does have a business presence here it is nothing near what they promised.

At least a large piece of what was to be Foxconn property was sold to a real company, Microsoft, who is building large data center. When it begins to operate it may have a few hundred employees.

An independent and peer reviewed Harvard Economics Study found that more income in the region are generated by protecting public lands near the Boundary Waters watershed than by sulfide-ore copper mining. It is also important to remember that mining is not sustainable and that copper/nickel mining is exponentially more dangerous to the environment than iron ore mining.

Freddy: "
An independent and peer reviewed Harvard Economics Study found that more income in the region are generated by protecting public lands near the Boundary Waters watershed than by sulfide-ore copper mining. "

Looks I have some reading material for later. Thanks for letting me know: Harvard Economics Study: Analysis of proposed 20-year mineral leasing withdrawal in Superior National Forest by James H. Stock, 2020

Why can't these to pursuits coexist? Algonquin Park continues to have a thriving timber business. The different resource pursuits are compartmentalized. The campers don't see the timber operation. Timber operations are far more widespread than mining.

I understand there will be environmental concerns as well as the slippery slope possibility of future mining interests gaining a foothold. But everything posted here about the downside of a single mine is merely speculation. Mining regulations have evolved from the wild west days of old. Miners are required to file remediation plans and show the ability to finance such arrangements at the outset.

Should all the mines be located in the third world when most of the refined output is consumed in the first?

Argo: "Why can't these to pursuits coexist? ..."

Really? Deforestation, erosion, contamination and alteration of soil profiles, contamination of lakes, streams, and wetlands, tailings, run-off, etc.

There are places to mine and places not to.
As far back as 1975 Mn DNR Fisheries did a study on the Kawishiwi River the potential of mining effects on the area.
The conclusion back then, and now the ecosystem is so fragile and water so infertile and almost no buffer ability to neutralize any sulfide pollution. The water already is in like 5.8 to 6.2 Ph. Any lowering will cause certain fish like perch and others losing the ability for their eggs to hatch and loss of much invertebrate life.
Yes, mining in the right situation, but not in such sensitive areas.

So this thread has already started down the slippery slope. Most of this has already been hashed over (multiple times) and the end result has been either a locked or deleted thread.

Alternative - Instead of hashing again here, please contact your congress-person.

Don't know who that person is?

Find My Representative

I sent my representative a note yesterday asking that he thoughtfully consider my position before voting on this bill.

Freddy: "
" How we treat our land, how we build upon it, how we act toward our air and water, will in long run tell what kind of people we really are"
Laurence S. Rockefeller
"

I think humans found out pretty early on that we are big pieces of shit. No need to wait for the long run to tell us this.

YaMarVa: "

Freddy: "
" How we treat our land, how we build upon it, how we act toward our air and water, will in long run tell what kind of people we really are"
Laurence S. Rockefeller
"

I think humans found out pretty early on that we are big pieces of shit. No need to wait for the long run to tell us this."

YaMarVa - he who smelt it, dealt it.

MidwestMan: "

YaMarVa: "

Freddy: "
" How we treat our land, how we build upon it, how we act toward our air and water, will in long run tell what kind of people we really are"
Laurence S. Rockefeller
"

I think humans found out pretty early on that we are big pieces of shit. No need to wait for the long run to tell us this."

YaMarVa - he who smelt it, dealt it."

MidwestMan - It takes one to know one.

FYI, this bill passed the House and has been sent to the Senate for consideration. Passed the house 212 to 203. https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/3195/all-actions

If you want to see how your representative voted, follow the link and click on roll call votes and then roll call 171. Mine didn't vote on this one for some reason. He usually votes the opposite of what I wish he would though, so I guess that is good. It probably won't pass the Senate and certainly won't be signed into law. This is all performative, but instructive to see where your representative would be on the issue.

Freeleo1: "If you want to see how your representative voted, follow the link and click on roll call votes and then roll call 171. Mine didn't vote on this one for some reason. He usually votes the opposite of what I wish he would though, so I guess that is good. It probably won't pass the Senate and certainly won't be signed into law. This is all performative, but instructive to see where your representative would be on the issue. "

Well, mine is Stauber, the one who created the bill. Over the years I have sent him messages and emails on different subjects. I have received Zero responses back.
But almost weekly I get emails asking me for money or his people are calling asking for money.
He would just as soon see the BWCA disappear.

Some say we shouldn't talk about this subject on this forum.
The BWCA is why this forum and message board exist. It is the core of our existence in the canoe world. Other topics are fun and informative but in reality, much lower in importance.
Just keep it civil and respect others on this board.
Get educated and dig a little deeper into the pros and cons of any issue.

Pinetree: "Some say we shouldn't talk about this subject on this forum.
The BWCA is why this forum and message board exist. It is the core of our existence in the canoe world. Other topics are fun and informative but in reality, much lower in importance.
Just keep it civil and respect others on this board.
Get educated and dig a little deeper into the pros and cons of any issue.
"

Hear! Hear! I think all topics can be discussed as long as the individual is willing to be empathic and open to opposite viewpoints.

"The capacity to learn is a gift; the ability to learn is a skill; the willingness to learn is a choice." author Brian Herbert.

Minnesotian: "

Pinetree: "Some say we shouldn't talk about this subject on this forum.
The BWCA is why this forum and message board exist. It is the core of our existence in the canoe world. Other topics are fun and informative but in reality, much lower in importance.
Just keep it civil and respect others on this board.
Get educated and dig a little deeper into the pros and cons of any issue.
"

Hear! Hear! I think all topics can be discussed as long as the individual is willing to be empathic and open to opposite viewpoints.


"The capacity to learn is a gift; the ability to learn is a skill; the willingness to learn is a choice." author Brian Herbert."

AMEN!

It is a subject that deserves conversation.
I think it was Edward Bulwer in the 1800’s that said “The pen is mightier than the sword”.
How true is that.

While it is true that non-ferrous metals are in demand, this particular mine would be located in a watershed that flows through the BWCA. No debate about that, and that is the problem.

Tom

tumblehome: "It is a subject that deserves conversation.
I think it was Edward Bulwer in the 1800’s that said “The pen is mightier than the sword”.
How true is that.


While it is true that non-ferrous metals are in demand, this particular mine would be located in a watershed that flows through the BWCA. No debate about that, and that is the problem.


Tom"

The debate is about the level of risk. I am very skeptical of this particular mine, to say the least, but the fact is that it met the environmental standards laid forth. Nothing wrong with regulations to protect the environment, most everybody supports that. However, when significant investment is made to ensure all those regulations are met only for executive action to be taken to stop it anyway, that becomes a problem that has major consequences of its own. It is indicative of a broken and unsustainable process. Either the regulations were poorly considered to begin with, or authority was overstepped and the door is open for other politicians to simply do whatever they want once they inevitably gain power.

It's from on high from the government almighty. Uncle Sam shall giveth and taketh away as so it pleases, and if yea got the money we can make the outcome favorable to your way.

Be Vigilant, Be Active, or have a Big Bank Account.

One thing to be aware of right now, is that the USA has been very slow to adopt policies that encourage recycling of precious metals. According to info from Friends of the BWCA, if we brought our levels of recovery for those metals up to the same standard that Europe has, we would be able to reclaim copper in a quantity that would be 13 times the amount of copper the proposed mine would produce in its lifetime.

straighthairedcurly: "One thing to be aware of right now, is that the USA has been very slow to adopt policies that encourage recycling of precious metals. According to info from Friends of the BWCA, if we brought our levels of recovery for those metals up to the same standard that Europe has, we would be able to reclaim copper in a quantity that would be 13 times the amount of copper the proposed mine would produce in its lifetime."

That's interesting and a great point. Look at all the gold that ends up in Indian dumps. All that would be lost if not for the people that gather and sell it as a way of life in harsh environments.

They'll be harvesting comets in space before they come up with a sustainable recycle policy.

I just did my part - contacted my representative and expressed my displeasure with his “yea” on this issue. I hope more of us do the same.