I have always placed the plastic under the tent, but know that others put it inside the tent and sleep on top of it. My thought has always been to protect the bottom of the tent and to try to set it up in such a way that water would be running under the plastic. Not always perfect on that, but usually. What do you do and why? I can be swayed to change if convinced.

The "innie" or "outie" debate. I agree "RoundRiver" about protecting the exterior of the tent floor, and that's why I use a ground cloth, or a "footprint" on the outside as well.

If you read or listen to any of Cliff Jacobson's "camping tips & tricks", he advocates putting the a plastic sheet on the inside ONLY! As much as I respect Cliff's experience, and general knowledge of wilderness canoeing and camping, I go with both.

Per Cliff, if you put a sheet under the tent, it will pool rain water and thereby not allow proper drainage. Although that can be true, if you position your tent properly, that should not be an issue IMHO.

I use a sheet under my tent(s) more for protecting the tent floor from abuse and sharp objects, than additional water-proofing. After I acquired some small pin holes in my REI "Taj3", I bought a REI "footprint" to provide better abrasion resistance. I have subsequently purchased "footprints" for many of my other tents as well. (BTW, Cliff Jacobson does not approve of the "footprints" either.)

I understand what Cliff is saying, but the footprints are cut in a way that the underlying material is a few inches back from the edge of the tent body. To date, I have not had a problem with "pooling" under my tent when using a "footprint". That said, I also do not set my tent up in a gulley or ravine either, if possible.

I use an old coated nylon poncho for the interior of my smaller tents, (i.e. North Face "Tadpole 23" and/or the North Face "Big Fat Frog"). Although the coated nylon poncho provides additional moisture resistance, I use it more for preventing interior abrasion to the tent floor. This is especially true if my dog is with me. A big dog's toe nails can be brutal on a tent floor.

Additionally, the coated nylon poncho on the inside keeps the tent floor much cleaner, especially with a dog as a tent mate. When I break down the tent, I just slide the coated nylon poncho out of the tent, and shake out the dirt.

There is one exception; when canoeing and camping on the Lower Wisconsin River, (which I do a lot), I don't use an exterior ground cloth or footprint. I do use an interior ground cloth though, which makes removing sand from the tent somewhat easier during break down.

Although there's some grassy areas on the larger islands, camping on the Lower Wisconsin River is like camping in a big sandbox. Provided I remove any sticks or other sharp objects from the tent's intended location, the tent is just resting on nice, soft sand. The sand also provides excellent drainage.

There's also some sandy areas on the Kickapoo River and Black River here in Wisconsin as well. So the same application would apply as camping on the Lower Wisconsin River. But, for camping on the "Canadian Shield", both an "innie" and an "outie" is how I roll.

Hans Solo

We go with in the tent. Because it is very hard or impossible to be perfect with it underneath the tent. It is trivial to be perfect with it inside the tent. It still prevents the tent floor because it provides a slip surface between movement in the tent and the floor and sharp things under the floor. I was skeptical at first but gave it a try and now always do it that way unless we are camping somewhere where there is zero chance of rain. Then we will put a footprint underneath to keep the tent cleaner.

Simply put, I would say switching to an innie is the single best camping trick I've learned from starting to camp in the BW. Look at the thread on wear and tear on BW camp sites and the problems with compacted soil and rain not soaking in. WIth an innie, we always stay dry.

Most of the time I use a piece of tyvek UNDER my tent. However if I know it's going to possibly rain on a trip I'll take plastic and put it on the INSIDE.

I have and use manufacturer's footprints underneath tent. If weather calls for significant rain then an 'innie' is added too. My innie is a piece of Tyvek (washed to soften/to quiet). Innie was smart move on a stormy night when pitched tent in a shallow depression and water collected between footprint & tent floor. The seepage thru flooring of tent was minor and only at pressure points under air mat.
Weather permitting--or level tent pad, 'innie' is folded to utilize as entrance mat.

I was a confirmed outie..There have been a couple of disappointments though, last storm sent puddles and splash in through my Limelight 3. I know the dirt came in from the ends. Not so sure about the puddles. I found some coated packcloth at an outdoor fabric store and hemmed up the edges for a compact light innie. Packcloth doesnt slide as much as plastic.

The floor of a good quality tent shouldn't leak, UNLESS it has holes in it. A footprint helps protect the tent floor from developing said holes. If you have a cheap tent or a tent with holes in the floor, better go with the innie...it's too late for the outie :)

Innie or outie?
Or, just do a search for Innie.

I'm a converted innie. I WAS an outie until wind and rain kept blowing the water between the sheet and the tent. I ended up laying in water and soaking everything in the tent. I went to an innie and have better results in keeping things dry.

quote snakecharmer: "The floor of a good quality tent shouldn't leak, UNLESS it has holes in it. A footprint helps protect the tent floor from developing said holes. If you have a cheap tent or a tent with holes in the floor, better go with the innie...it's too late for the outie :)"

Bingo

I have had tents that needed an innie, but the ones now are fine without and I use the fitted footprints for protection. If its looking like crazy rain I'll bring an innie just in case I get stuck on one of those pads that are like holes, better safe than sorry with down bags.

I must be an outcast.

After many years of solo camping and thinning the weight from my gear, I stopped taking a ground tarp of any kind and haven't used one in 30 trips. You might be surprised at what you don't need to bring with you.

Tom

quote yellowcanoe: "I was a confirmed outie..There have been a couple of disappointments though, last storm sent puddles and splash in through my Limelight 3. I know the dirt came in from the ends. Not so sure about the puddles. I found some coated packcloth at an outdoor fabric store and hemmed up the edges for a compact light innie. Packcloth doesnt slide as much as plastic."

Glad to see you back! Value your input.
Sunnybear

Agree with Hans Solo--+1

Innie all the way. My .02 is that your tent bottom will get holes/abraded, no matter what, the innie is what keeps you dry in a nasty storm. The tent bottom protects the innie, which is your true water barrier. Cut so it is like 3" bigger than footprint all around, good to go. Hopefully you will never need it, but if you do, you will be dry. I have also gone down in thickness, replacing it every trip. I now use 2 mil plastic, instead of 3, packs down to nothing.

Never been wet

Both ways will work, employed properly.

I have one tent that I use a plastic sheet on the inside of the tent. That is the original 2 person Eureka Timberline that I bought in 1986 and used nearly everyday of the summers in my first 10 years of guiding. The floor is worn out! There are a few small holes and even a couple of spots that are sewn up. It is still one of my favorite tents because of all the memories that it holds.

No for the rest of my tents, they are either outfitter or expedition models designed for heavy use. i do not use either in them.

However, if you feel the need to use one, I would only go with one on the inside. The reason is very simple. If a bit of the plastic moves around under the tent and somehow finds its way out from under the tent. Now you have the impermeable layer under the tent and you are guarenteed to get wet as the water is now trapped between your tent floor and the plastic sheet. This will not happen if it is on the inside of the tent (well unless your roof leaks, but that is another discussion!).

quote tumblehome: "I must be an outcast.


After many years of solo camping and thinning the weight from my gear, I stopped taking a ground tarp of any kind and haven't used one in 30 trips. You might be surprised at what you don't need to bring with you.


Tom"

I actually agree that 99.99% of the time neither are needed, but a 5oz fitted footprint is a worthy piece of kit if you a rocking a $400-600 tent and want it to stay nice for as long as possible, especially if your bottom is made of real thin sil-nylon. I know people that beat the living crap out of gear and just replace it every 4 years, I on the other hand nurture my gear and replace it every 4 years lol but I have a whole closet full of really nice used gear I could sell or donate....... or hoard.....

quote tumblehome: "I must be an outcast.


After many years of solo camping and thinning the weight from my gear, I stopped taking a ground tarp of any kind and haven't used one in 30 trips. You might be surprised at what you don't need to bring with you.


Tom"

+1 on "thinning"!

Have you ever been caught in a torrential downpour in the BW that lasted for hours on end, or days on end? Have you ever had water pooling all around your campsite and puddles everywhere? We have had that experience on several occassions. We only use an "innie" and we never had water seep through to our gear. We wouldn't do it any other way.

If your tent fly extends well beyond the body of the tent using a ground cloth outside the tent makes good sense. If the fly exposes the body of the tent to the weather use the sheet inside as water can drip down the body of the tent (the sides of the "bathtub" floor) and pool between ground sheet and tent floor.

quote sunnybear09: "

quote yellowcanoe: "I was a confirmed outie..There have been a couple of disappointments though, last storm sent puddles and splash in through my Limelight 3. I know the dirt came in from the ends. Not so sure about the puddles. I found some coated packcloth at an outdoor fabric store and hemmed up the edges for a compact light innie. Packcloth doesnt slide as much as plastic."

Glad to see you back! Value your input.
Sunnybear

+1

Agree with Hans Solo--+1"

Pretty well summed up by Hans.

quote alpine525: "Have you ever been caught in a torrential downpour in the BW that lasted for hours on end, or days on end? Have you ever had water pooling all around your campsite and puddles everywhere? We have had that experience on several occassions. We only use an "innie" and we never had water seep through to our gear. We wouldn't do it any other way.


"

Yep- - four inches of rain. 3 out of 4 tents wet inside. Mine bone dry, because of good tent setup and a properly laid-out OUTTIE! (The others had neither innie nor outtie)

Any sharp things that poke holes in the tent floor will be outside the tent, not inside. Except for, as HansS pointed out, if you have a dog in there with you (nails).

I'm with Hans Solo and Ragged and snakecharmer.

I think I align most closely with snakecharmer.

An outie is not for moisture protection. It is to protect the bottom of the tent from most punctures or abrasion.

An innie is for moisture protection. It keeps water that enters the tent - usually through seams or a compromised tent floor - underneath it and away from you and your stuff.

Smart use of a properly-sized outie (smaller than floor dimensions) - along with purchase of a tent with a decent floor and proper seam sealing in the first place - means that you won't ever need an innie.

Yes, we have experienced, and stayed dry in, torrential downpours with an outie. Some of you may remember the 6" of rain during Blueberry Festival 2006. We were on Shell Lake and although our tent placement was superb for normal wet conditions, we still were blessed with a waterbed quite a bit of the time - between the tent floor and the outie. Not a drop inside.

quote boonie:

Pretty well summed up by Hans. "

Agree, both.

quote HansSolo: "
This is especially true if my dog is with me. A big dog's toe nails can be brutal on a tent floor.



"

If you had a NEMO tent they make a VERY nice fitted product just for this reason, couple little snaps in the corners, granted your poncho does the same for allot less money, but none the less your issues are far from rare and at least one company have even developed product just for it.





NEMO Paw Prints

Both for 2 purposes. Innie for water protection, outtie to protect floor from ground abrassion/punctures.
CB

quote Cedarboy: "Both for 2 purposes. Innie for water protection, outtie to protect floor from ground abrassion/punctures.
CB


"

Not trying to sway or change anyone's mind but I have been using both now for 3-4 years. The outie in my mind protects the floor and keeps ground moisture from making contact. I like that. I use a thick black construction grade plastic cut smaller than the tent's dimensions.

I've used a piece of clear visqueen plastic cut about 4 inches larger than the inside dimensions of the tent (Eureka Timberline 2) so I have a couple of inches extra to form an edge around the tent. I know, if the tent leaks I've created a bathtub to hold the water but I'm not worried about the roof leaking as I am getting a less than ideal tent pad that will turn into a puddle or I find that the pad turns into a run-off path in heavy rain.

The worst drawback of the Timberline is the rainfly doesn't extend all the way down to the ground and a small portion of the tent itself is exposed to the elements. I have set the tent up and applied a spray waterproofing to that part for some peace of mind. Probably will need to garden hose test my tent before the trip again this year. I don't mind carrying around both sheets of plastic either.

Both.

quote TeamTuna06: "Both."

YEP BOTH. Tyvek doesn't weigh or take up that much space.
The old better safe than sorry comes to mind.

JB

I will never use either. If I wanted to be snug and comfy i just wouldn't go.

Another vote for Both!

Outtie to protect the Tent

Innie to protect Me

Part of the problem re tent floors is that lately the hydrostatic resistance ability is decreasing. 10,000 mm used to be the standard. Now some are a miserly 1,500.

So take care of your old tents. They don't make em like they used to.

Sometimes that resistance is important. Folks say to pitch properly. But in Quetico in my experience what seems to be dirt may be underlaid by a saucer of Canadian Shield that is not visible.

When I was using a tent I would put a tent foot print that fits just inside the tents outer shape. I never got wet with this setup.

Was an "Outtie" until I read CJ's "Innie" recommendations in the '90's. Switched and have been in dozens of frog-stranglers without getting wet inside.

quote yellowcanoe: "Part of the problem re tent floors is that lately the hydrostatic resistance ability is decreasing. 10,000 mm used to be the standard. Now some are a miserly 1,500.


So take care of your old tents. They don't make em like they used to.


Sometimes that resistance is important. Folks say to pitch properly. But in Quetico in my experience what seems to be dirt may be underlaid by a saucer of Canadian Shield that is not visible."

It is difficult because many of the tent manufacturers do not list the resistance level on their specifications. I agree. Some of my "old" tents are my best!

quote tumblehome: "I must be an outcast.


After many years of solo camping and thinning the weight from my gear, I stopped taking a ground tarp of any kind and haven't used one in 30 trips. You might be surprised at what you don't need to bring with you.


Tom"

I go without as well. can't say I have been in an 4 inch rain but never got overly wet. But even if stuff does get wet its part of the package. Sleeping on a plastic covered floor in the wilderness just doesn't seem right.

That was FAST! Thanks for all the input everybody. Helpful.

I do both as well. Foot print and innie.

I use a purpose designed footprint (which means an outie, I guess). But the tent design I'll typically purchase these days are "quick-set" models where the footprint and rain fly can be used independent of the tent. While rarely used for this purpose, this configuration also accommodates one of my pet peeves ... I just HATE packing away a wet tent! With the "quick-set" model I use, I can either put up or take down the tent UNDER the rain fly ... keeping tent and associated gear mostly dry in the process. The tent is then stuffed in a waterproof bag of some kind and the other wet parts are then added to the tent bag. When I reach my next home for the evening, I'll take out the wet parts and give them a chance to dry. However, I'm even as careful as I can be about folding the wet parts in on themselves so wet mostly touches wet. Then if I find myself in a multi-day rain event, I can still pitch a tent that is still mostly dry.

I'll also take some time picking and cleaning a spot to pitch my tent to minimize chances for punctures. I never buy a tent than has ground level seams. If it has a point on it, its probably going in a vesti, but not inside the tent. All footwear, whether its dry or not, goes in the vesti. Every couple of days, I'll open one of the doors and hoist the tent overhead and shake out any collected debris that I cannot get out by picking by hand (of course, this only works with free standing models). On warm dry days on multi-week trips, I'll even grab a damp cloth and wipe down the interior floor to get rid of any dirt particles that might have crept in.

And, if my rain gear is dry, its going INSIDE the tent. Unfortunately, you can't always count on finding a level tent pad in the bush. The rain gear goes either under the end of my down bag or at the down hill direction. This serves two purposes. In the event of a leak, the rain gear will help protect the sleeping bag. Alternately, if I haven't properly vented the tent for condensation, parts of the bag that might slide to the edge of the tent should be offered a little protection. (I also sometimes stuff unused clothing under the downhill side of my pad to help "level" the floor a bit.

I do like to keep my home away from home as cozy and livable as possible!

dd

I also use both now. On my Mountain Hardwear Drifter 3, I use tyvek for the groundcloth, and use a piece inside, too. Nice to stay dry!

I'll add to the endless opinions. I respectfully offer this thought. If a person chooses to only use an innie with a new or very good tent with a water tight floor it is un-necessarily exposing the floor of the tent as a wearing surface directly to rocks, sand, sticks, etc... This exposure and use will eventually puncture the floor of any tent. Conversely, if a person would protect the floor from puncture initially with a ground cloth of some type there would be no reason for an innie. The use of an innie assumes the tent floor is going to leak so just build a waterbed with an innie inside the tent and stay dry. Seems like faulty logic to me. I may use both outie and innie but I would never go without a ground cloth and let my tent floor be ruined. Just my thoughts.

I think an innie is simply to compensate for bad tent pitching and site prep. --- There, it had to be said. :>|
,
Just kidding. I can see where it would be good to have both on stormy nights. Lord knows I've woken up in enough puddles during my life. Especially in BWCA, there's not always a perfect tent pad, which is needed for an outie to do its job well.

OK, in 40 years I have never used an innie; always a footprint. But after reading all the comments on innies over the last few years, I may give it a try this summer. So, my questions is, how do you cut the innie? Are you trying to create a bathtub? Or, are you trying to get it just to the edges of the floor. Would a second footprint work for an innie?

quote TriTodd: "I also use both now. On my Mountain Hardwear Drifter 3, I use tyvek for the groundcloth, and use a piece inside, too. Nice to stay dry!"

I have always used an outie, had my 23 year old REI Mt Hut 3 floating in 2 inches of water for two days a couple years ago and never got anything wet; just damp between pad and floor. But, I was concerned enough to think about changing my modus to innie AND outie. That said, where do you get small pieces of Tyvec for innie or outie ?

quote Scout64: "Are you trying to create a bathtub?"

yes. i cut mine a foot longer/wider to have 6" running up the walls.

Footprint/outie only, although I can certainly see the logic in both.

Same as Kanoes.

Beaverjack makes a great point. Under perfect conditions you don't need an innie. And Tarptents, who makes our tent, says that you don't need either. The innie is a safety thing, sort of like a PFD. You shouldn't need it, but you might.

BTW, we use 2 mil plastic. Very thin and light. I am tempted by Tyvek but haven't made the switch yet.

Makes sense. Thanks.

Before I switched to hammocks, I did both. Plastic is cheap and light. Protected the floor of the tent, and kept out moisture (as well as could be expected) if I did inside and out.

I mostly use a hammock these days but when I use a tent I always use a footprint under the tent to protect the floor.
I also always use a floor liner inside. Floor liners are much easier to clean than the tent itself. I use the same principle with my sleeping bags by using a liner, fleece in the colder months and silk when it's warmer. Liners mschine wash very essily. Once you pay the $100 plus bill to have a quality sleeping bag dry cleaned you'll never use a sleeping bag without a liner again unless you are one of those who doesn't mind sleeping in a dirty sweat soaked sleeping bag.

I mostly use a hammock these days but when I use a tent I always use a footprint under the tent to protect the floor.
I also always use a floor liner inside. Floor liners are much easier to clean than the tent itself. I use the same principle with my sleeping bags by using a liner, fleece in the colder months and silk when it's warmer. Liners mschine wash very essily. Once you pay the $100 plus bill to have a quality sleeping bag dry cleaned you'll never use a sleeping bag without a liner again unless you are one of those who doesn't mind sleeping in a dirty sweat soaked sleeping bag.

I just got back. It was the wettest week that i have ever camped in. I wound up with water between my footprint and my tent. I should have been an innie...

quote Mad_Angler: "I just got back. It was the wettest week that i have ever camped in. I wound up with water between my footprint and my tent. I should have been an innie..."

Aah, the classic Innie-Outtie discussion.
I vote both. Fun to look through the old posts and see Kanoes on the list!

Both, but innie if I have to choose one.

quote Mad_Angler: "I just got back. It was the wettest week that i have ever camped in. I wound up with water between my footprint and my tent. I should have been an innie..."

Exactly why I am an innie.

Always been tarp goes Outie below tent never any problems, and Always shoes off at the door.

quote motox380: "Always been tarp goes Outie below tent never any problems, and Always shoes off at the door. "

exactly, if Cliff took his klodhoppers off outside the tent, maybe he'd be an outie

make sure the tarp does not extend to the edge of the tent, and use common sense where you put up tent and how it is orientated

quote alpine525: "Have you ever been caught in a torrential downpour in the BW that lasted for hours on end, or days on end? Have you ever had water pooling all around your campsite and puddles everywhere? We have had that experience on several occassions. We only use an "innie" and we never had water seep through to our gear. We wouldn't do it any other way.


"

We knew we were in for a long night of storms and went the innie route. The rains were torrential. No doubt that the innie kept us dry.

Ok, I've got to ask. Given that there is rarely a perfectly level tent pad in the BWCA I find that sleeping pads slip down hill with tossing and turning during sleep. Doesn't a sheet of plastic on the inside floor of the tent just make things that much more slippery?

I just can't picture keeping the innie flat and spread out properly with two people moving around inside the tent.

Does a washed Tyvek or home made innie using coated nylon function better?
I have a hard time getting my head around buying as light a tent as possible and then adding the weight of a footprint not to mention another pound of plastic drop cloth to put inside the tent as well.

Help me out here.

quote ObiWenonahKenobi: "I just can't picture keeping the innie flat and spread out properly with two people moving around inside the tent."

I haven't had any problems like that. Ben using an innie for 35 years.

Innie all the time. I've never been one to spend the money on the footprints, but I had plenty of 3 mil plastic laying around so that's how I started. Now I'd never do it any other way after several rainy trips where we stayed dry thanks to the innie.

I bought a floor saver only because I saw it on special for $10 and figured it would at least keep the bottom clean. I doubt if I would have given $30 or more otherwise. After all; outfitter tent with Oxford floor? Why spend more? Well I did, but still wondered about some water getting between the top of the floor saver and the bottom of the tent floor around the edges.
The main thing is choosing a choice site, which isn't always easy. I have access to Tyvek and cut a sheet a foot larger to form a bath tub innie. Washed it in agitator washer. I like it.
If I were a minimalist the innie stays and the outie gets left behind.

quote overthehill: "still wondered about some water getting between the top of the floor saver and the bottom of the tent floor around the edges."

It's great! Like sleeping in a water bed. Just have to wet foot it to get out of your tent.

So Mike, since your original post in 2013. What do you do... innie or outie? Or RV... lol.

quote AmarilloJim: "

quote ObiWenonahKenobi: "I just can't picture keeping the innie flat and spread out properly with two people moving around inside the tent."

I haven't had any problems like that. Ben using an innie for 35 years."

Never did the innie for similar reason. Back in the earlier years I remember cramming four guys in a four man tent. There was always that guy with the "slippery" sleeping bag. Any slight incline and he would wake up slid down against everyone else. I always invisioned the same problem with the innie. In forty years always dry and always a clean tent bottom.

Outie

quote AmarilloJim: "

quote overthehill: "still wondered about some water getting between the top of the floor saver and the bottom of the tent floor around the edges."

It's great! Like sleeping in a water bed. Just have to wet foot it to get out of your tent."

That can be a problem and eventually it will leak in on a lot of tents. That is why I get the plastic under the outer edge and maybe fold the plastic up(slight fold) where I think it might run along the ground.

I’ve posted something similar before but I guess I can say it again. I really believe that footprints are one of the great hypes in the camping equipment industry. We spend an extra two hundred dollars to get the lightest tent possible then we spend a hundred dollars more and add the weight right back on again. Why not just buy a tent with a durable, heavier weight bottom to start with and save a whole bunch of dough? A footprint can only serve two conceivable purposes. Either you are using it to keep out water or to protect the bottom of your tent from puncture. I can’t see where a footprint keeps out water. In fact I suspect it could trap water and make matters worse. As for protecting the bottom of the tent, anything that’s going to puncture the bottom of your tent is going to puncture the footprint and visa versa. I can’t, for example, imagine the footprint getting punctured but the bottom is saved. In all likelihood whatever goes through one goes through both. When I bought my Hilleberg tent I asked the sales rep about a footprint. She said that they sell them but only because people seem to want them. She thought it was a waste of weight and money, which made a lot of sense to me.

quote KerryG: "I’ve posted something similar before but I guess I can say it again. I really believe that footprints are one of the great hypes in the camping equipment industry. We spend an extra two hundred dollars to get the lightest tent possible then we spend a hundred dollars more and add the weight right back on again. Why not just buy a tent with a durable, heavier weight bottom to start with and save a whole bunch of dough? A footprint can only serve two conceivable purposes. Either you are using it to keep out water or to protect the bottom of your tent from puncture. I can’t see where a footprint keeps out water. In fact I suspect it could trap water and make matters worse. As for protecting the bottom of the tent, anything that’s going to puncture the bottom of your tent is going to puncture the footprint and visa versa. I can’t, for example, imagine the footprint getting punctured but the bottom is saved. In all likelihood whatever goes through one goes through both. When I bought my Hilleberg tent I asked the sales rep about a footprint. She said that they sell them but only because people seem to want them. She thought it was a waste of weight and money, which made a lot of sense to me."

+1-- someone ask Beav if he had a "footprint" on his journey. He still uses the tent.

quote WhiteWolf: "

quote KerryG: "I’ve posted something similar before but I guess I can say it again. I really believe that footprints are one of the great hypes in the camping equipment industry. We spend an extra two hundred dollars to get the lightest tent possible then we spend a hundred dollars more and add the weight right back on again. Why not just buy a tent with a durable, heavier weight bottom to start with and save a whole bunch of dough? A footprint can only serve two conceivable purposes. Either you are using it to keep out water or to protect the bottom of your tent from puncture. I can’t see where a footprint keeps out water. In fact I suspect it could trap water and make matters worse. As for protecting the bottom of the tent, anything that’s going to puncture the bottom of your tent is going to puncture the footprint and visa versa. I can’t, for example, imagine the footprint getting punctured but the bottom is saved. In all likelihood whatever goes through one goes through both. When I bought my Hilleberg tent I asked the sales rep about a footprint. She said that they sell them but only because people seem to want them. She thought it was a waste of weight and money, which made a lot of sense to me."

+1-- someone ask Beav if he had a "footprint" on his journey. He still uses the tent. "

I was an outie many many years ago until I heard CJ speak on the subject matter. I got to pondering the subject so I tried the innie approach and like it. Particularly after heavy rains. It works for me and my current tent set up and it is what I encourage the scouts in my son's troop to use. It also helps the scouts clean their then when they are done. They are by design a bit sloppier with their tent cleanliness than us older folks, so having a tarp on the inside holds their messiness off the tent floor and is easy to lift out along with the tarp.

I abandoned using an outie or footprint after my switch to an innie for the reasons KerryG posted. That reasoning seamed logical to me.

Innie in the Timberline 4 saved us (again) in last week's heavy rains. Never leave home without it.

Where you put your plastic sheet depends on how bad your tent leaks, really bad? One over, one under, and one in. I'm an "outie". FRED