I'm going on my first solo in about a month. Renting the boat through Piragis, they have a lot of choices, but I think I'm going to pick between the Magic or Prism.

I'm putting in on S. Kawishiwi EP32 June 9th. Planning on heading into Gabbro/Bald Eagle. Maybe basecamp, maybe short travel days, up in the air on that. I plan on fishing a lot.

I have never paddled a solo canoe before and will not have an opportunity to do so before the trip. Opinions on the best boat choice for this type of trip?

I'm am pretty light, 5'10" 150lbs. Pack weight is around 35 lbs. Separate tackle bag is likely 15 lbs or so?

I guess I'm leaning Magic, just due to the smaller size, weight

I'm 5'7" and have paddled both back to back - I preferred the Magic by far (and finally found one for myself!). Make sure whatever you rent has the seat setup in the center - I rented a Prism years ago for a trip and it had the seat set back, which wasn't ideal in the wind or for fishing. The Magic is still considered by most to be the finest BWCA solo boat ever!

I'm also about your size - 5'7" and 150 lbs - and prefer the Magic.

I'm 5'11" and 200 lbs, and I paddle a magic.
I would never look at anything else

Paddle the Magic. I've rented Prisms before and they get blown around a lot.

Another vote for the Magic....best boat I've ever paddled.

I agree what the others have said, I'd go with the Bell Magic also.

As much as I like Wenonah canoes and own several of them, I also love Dave Yost designed solo canoes. Yost's designs are a lot more user friendly IMHO than other comparable solo canoes. Personally, I also think the Magic is just more fun to paddle than a Prism.

Hans Solo

Consensus on the board?!? Makes my choice easy...

Any tips on gear placement in the Magic? The only thing I'm nervous about is posts I've seen on the tippiness of solo canoes. I never have issues entering or keeping balanced in tandems, but seems the solos might be a different beast.

It is best if your gear is in 2 packs so you can put one in front and one in the back. I put the larger one tight behind my seat and the smaller one goes in front. With the paddle I can move the front pack to match what works best depending on the wind.
MagicPaddler

Guess I get to have the contrary opinion. For a first time solo paddler, I'd suggest a Prism. More stable from the outset, slower reaction to steering inputs, not that much larger. If you had any experience at all then the Magic is much more fun and would get my recommendation (personally I do not care for the Prism's handling, and prefer a livelier solo). As for wind, some ballast and trim adjustments make a big difference, no matter what canoe you're paddling.

butthead

quote chipaddler: "Consensus on the board?!? The only thing I'm nervous about is posts I've seen on the tippiness of solo canoes."

it will seem squirrely as hell the first few times but youll adjust quickly.

I am in the minority here, have paddled both, and bought a prism. I am a souris river fan. the prism rides like the sr canoe I own and have paddled in the past. I have a el tegre quetico, and own a sr 16. the 16 just was a beast to solo. went a 6 trips with it.
got the prism and just love the way it j-stroke tracks.
one side all day long.
I can cruise in it! but hell, it's not a race.

quote kanoes: "

quote chipaddler: "Consensus on the board?!? The only thing I'm nervous about is posts I've seen on the tippiness of solo canoes."

it will seem squirrely as hell the first few times but youll adjust quickly."

It has pretty good final stability, although the initial stability may be less than you're used to. I've found it best to make sure I step on the center line and keep my weight low while holding onto the gunwales.

I'd also agree with SevenofNine that it will get blown around less, especially since you're a light weight guy with a light load; the Magic has a lower shear line.

The Prism has a stronger delta shape. That makes it more trim sensitive. Its a fine boat but for your first solo getting handling under control need not be complicated further by loading issues.

not a good idea to go without previous experience in a solo boat

hopefully you are a quick learner and it isn't windy

my suggestion would be a boat that tracks real straight because you are gonna be learning on how to keep it going straight and turn the way you want

quote butthead: Personally I do not care for the Prism's handling, and prefer a livelier solo. butthead"

I completely agree with you butthead!

Hans Solo

Helpful below...

Packs for a Bell Magic

I ended up getting the Pioneer pack - it's awesome! Am considering either getting a second Pioneer or a Rucksack. Either way, the CCS packs really are great!

http://www.stedmanbrewing.com/2012BWCASolo/

My main pack is a 120L dry bag that will not be filled up. Should be able to fit behind the center seat. I usually bring a small day bag for quick grab items, but I may just bring the main bag and the tackle bag to avoid a triple portage.

I do like CCS gear, but prefer a large dry bag. I used canvas duluth packs when I first started tripping in the BWCA and did not like how they got super waterlogged and heavy. Probably not as big of a deal with the CCS build materials.

quote HansSolo: "

quote butthead: Personally I do not care for the Prism's handling, and prefer a livelier solo. butthead"

I completely agree with you butthead!

Hans Solo"

I think you missed the part where Butthead said for an inexperienced paddler he suggested the Prism, and the OP has never paddled a solo before , and he will have no experience in a solo before going.

IMO, it really isn't going to matter much which solo he paddles, it is going to require quick learning to get it to go in the direction he wants.

Nope, I didn't miss it, I was merely commenting on butthead's evaluation of the Prism. That's why I trimmed the quote to only his comment of the Prism's handling characteristics and his preference to a livelier hull.

Hans Solo

Does it make any difference for bigger guys? I'm 6'3" and 240# and am seriously considering both the Magic and Prism. Up until this thread, I've been thinking the Prism is the way to go.

quote Jackfish: "Does it make any difference for bigger guys? I'm 6'3" and 240# and am seriously considering both the Magic and Prism. Up until this thread, I've been thinking the Prism is the way to go. "

It's hard to go wrong with either canoe Pete, they're both good in their own right. I really think it comes down to personal preference. Your height and weight are close to mine, (6' 4" @ 217 pounds), and I'd have no qualms about tripping in the Bell Magic. That said, I'd probably need to leave the dog at home if I was tripping with a lot of gear though.

If at all possible, try taking both of these canoes out on a test paddle and compare them side by side. As I often say, reviews and opinions of other paddlers are always helpful to narrow down the choices. But, it's always best to find out which canoe YOU really enjoy paddling by getting out on the water with each boat.

My personal preference for a Canoe Country Tripper is the Wenonah Voyager in the Kevlar Flex-core lay-up, but I know it's not all that popular with other paddlers. For many, the Voyager is too much canoe. That said, I like the additional speed of the Voyager, and I often travel with a lot of gear and/or an 88 pound Golden Retriever.

And as butthead mentioned, I too like a livelier hull. When I upgraded from my Wenonah Jensen C1W, I was debating between the a Wenonah Encounter and the Wenonah Voyager. After test paddling both canoes side by side, I chose the Voyager, and I couldn't be happier.

Happy paddling!

Hans Solo

quote Jackfish: "Does it make any difference for bigger guys? I'm 6'3" and 240# and am seriously considering both the Magic and Prism. Up until this thread, I've been thinking the Prism is the way to go. "

pete, i think you need the encounter i will soon have for sale here. :)

One quick thought, I suggest wet footing when solo primarily for safe entrances and exits from the canoe. Its much easier to get into the canoe from knee deep or less water, than standing on shore, trying to reach out and drop into the canoe. The latter puts your body weight uncentered and can easily put you in the water, or knock you into the rocks you were standing on.

The tippiness is something you will get used to, stay low, stay centered, watch for underwater rocks and don't reach behind you.

One other consideration is your ability to kneel in a Magic. I've been out a few times doing a bit of white knuckle paddling where it felt good to get my knees down and thighs against the sides. You never know when the wind may come out of nowhere and the pucker factor jumps up. its a lot harder to do in a Prism.

quote bmaines: "One other consideration is your ability to kneel in a Magic. I've been out a few times doing a bit of white knuckle paddling where it felt good to get my knees down and thighs against the sides. You never know when the wind may come out of nowhere and the pucker factor jumps up. its a lot harder to do in a Prism."

Yes and No!

If you have big clods like me, (size #13), it's tough for me to get my feet under the seat of a Magic when wearing hiking boots, or boots like the Chota Trekkers. I know owner's of the Bell Magic often modify the seat hangers to accommodate this situation, but I don't know if it's commonly done to the Magics rented by the Outfitters. Then again, if you kicked off your hiking boots, it would be less of an issue.

Although not easy, you can kneel in a Prism. I've never had to kneel in my Voyager, or at least not yet. There were a few times though I've had to kneel in my Jensen C1W when paddling some pretty hairy swells on Lake Superior. When I knelt in my C1W, it was with the larger, non-racing seat. It is harder in a Prism, but it is do-able.

If you slide the seat back a bit, you can kneel around the seat carriage in the Wenonah solo canoes, even with big feet. The "stock" seat carriage is essentially the same in the Voyager, Jensen C1W, and the Prism.

If you substituted the smaller racing seat instead, (as butthead did in his Wenonah Advantage), you would have less of a seat to obstruct your feet and leg positions. I doubt the Outfitters use the smaller, racing style seat though, but I've seen some Outfitters put a small, web seat on the sliding carriage. The small web seat would also provide better leg and foot clearance vs. the larger, stock bucket seat.

Hans Solo

quote butthead: "Guess I get to have the contrary opinion. For a first time solo paddler, I'd suggest a Prism. More stable from the outset, slower reaction to steering inputs, not that much larger. If you had any experience at all then the Magic is much more fun and would get my recommendation (personally I do not care for the Prism's handling, and prefer a livelier solo). As for wind, some ballast and trim adjustments make a big difference, no matter what canoe you're paddling.


butthead"

+1

As said, for the first time solo paddler the prism will likely prove more "comfortable" from the get-go. Better initial stability from my experience, which you'll especially appreciate when fishing without a load. Of course, you can always add ballast in some form or another to help with that. My first solo trip was with a Prism, and I was real happy with it. As others mention, the Magic will feel "livelier" and is a joy to paddle. Probably is preferred overall with more experienced paddlers, but I think you might be happier with the Prism for your first solo.

Eithe way, you'll be paddling a nice boat and should have a great trip!

"My personal preference for a Canoe Country Tripper is the Wenonah Voyager in the Kevlar Flex-core lay-up, but I know it's not all that popular with other paddlers. For many, the Voyager is too much canoe. That said, I like the additional speed of the Voyager, and I often travel with a lot of gear and/or an 88 pound Golden Retriever."

I too own a Voyager and love it. I paddled a Prism two years ago and found I struggled to keep up with the Wenonah Min II tandems. My Voyager is the 34 lbs kevlar ultralight. Mine is equipped with a foot controlled rudder system and I use a kayak paddle. It is as fast or faster then any tandem canoe I am with and can take as much or more gear. Very easy to portage.

Given the choice I would rather have a little room I didn't need then paddle a canoe that was too small and I could not bring what I intended to bring.

but a Voyager is a poor choice for someone who has never paddled solo before, or a fisherman. BTW, I own one as well and I am very familiar with Wenonah solos.

The OP was wondering which solo for a first time solo tripper with no experience. Just about all of you are forgetting/ignoring that.

quote ZaraSp00k: "but a Voyager is a poor choice for someone who has never paddled solo before, or a fisherman. BTW, I own one as well and I am very familiar with Wenonah solos.

The OP was wondering which solo for a first time solo tripper with no experience. Just about all of you are forgetting/ignoring that."

As can often be the case, some replies tend to veer-off in a slightly different direction from the original subject line. Not so much a hijack of the thread, but my commentary about the Wenonah Voyager was more of an "Oh, by the way" when I replied to Jackfish.

Mark Roberts was just replying to my comments, and I think we were both just stating opinions of a canoe we have a great affection for. My mention of the Voyager was not intended to be a recommendation to the OP, but more of an aside from the original question.

Straying from the original post was probably just a result of my ADHD. :-)

Hans Solo

My only solo canoe experience, before my solo trips, was with my O-T Pack. I rented Prisms for my trips and found the transition easy.

Interestingly my first solo trip of a week was a month after I learned to paddle my first solo boat.

In this day and age, no one would have recommended it for a first solo. But I got to like it and laden, it was less lively than empty. It still terrifies those I lend it to, especially those who paddle it seated and empty.

Some folks get accustomed to some boats faster than others. It's not always predictable. There are some boats I feel uncomfortable in that others do fine. I envy those who can paddle an Argosy seated, empty in the seat highest position. I can't.

I am really a novice at solo canoeing but will offer my 2 cents. I have paddled a Prism but haven't tripped with it. I bought a Wilderness last year and have paddled it empty several times a week for the last year and a seven day solo trip. Before that I paddled my 16' alumacraft backwards on a couple of solo trips. (everything is relative)

If you are now going solo I assume you have lots of experience paddling tandems. It is my opinion that either one will work fine and you won't know the difference. It is like a new pair of shoes, it will take a little time to get comfortable but once you get the hang of it all will be good. Sure there are differences but an experienced paddler will figure it out quickly. Then next time take the other one so you have some reference.

When I first started paddling the Wilderness I thought there was no way I would be able to do photography from a solo. Just looking down at the Pelican case gave me vertigo. Now I feel as comfortable taking pictures to the front or the side that I don't even think about it.

Pick the one that is your favorite color and enjoy the trip. :-)

the OP is probably long gone, but I'm gonna say that the more responsive the hull, the more it will take some getting used to. I guess by responsive, I mean higher performance. Going to an extreme, a racing solo is going to be very difficult to get used to and require some time in the saddle. An aluminum canoe paddled backwards, forwards, or sideways, whether tandem or solo, there isn't gonna be a whole lotta difference, so yeah, you could just go out and paddle.

I don't mean he should enroll in a class and get a moths experience, although that wouldn't hurt. But to hop in a solo and go tripping without any experience... again, I hope you are a quick learner and it isn't windy

quote ZaraSp00k: "But to hop in a solo and go tripping without any experience... again, I hope you are a quick learner and it isn't windy "

That's what I did, but I didn't go far and I didn't get there by the shortest distance between two points :). But I did get somewhere and I did get better - not good, but better ;).

quote butthead: "Guess I get to have the contrary opinion. For a first time solo paddler, I'd suggest a Prism. More stable from the outset, slower reaction to steering inputs, not that much larger. If you had any experience at all then the Magic is much more fun and would get my recommendation (personally I do not care for the Prism's handling, and prefer a livelier solo). As for wind, some ballast and trim adjustments make a big difference, no matter what canoe you're paddling.


butthead"

Agree. First time solo paddler - Prism.

i had 1 hour paddling with an rx wilderness before i took it on a frost river loop. i did just fine. you adapt quickly.

quote ZaraSp00k: "the OP is probably long gone, but I'm gonna say that the more responsive the hull, the more it will take some getting used to. I guess by responsive, I mean higher performance. Going to an extreme, a racing solo is going to be very difficult to get used to and require some time in the saddle. An aluminum canoe paddled backwards, forwards, or sideways, whether tandem or solo, there isn't gonna be a whole lotta difference, so yeah, you could just go out and paddle.

I don't mean he should enroll in a class and get a moths experience, although that wouldn't hurt. But to hop in a solo and go tripping without any experience... again, I hope you are a quick learner and it isn't windy "

I'm still here and have plenty of tandom canoe, kayak, and a variety of trip experience in and out of the BWCA. Ideally, I'd like to paddle a solo canoe first and think there will be a learning curve, but I it's not like I'm paddling/tripping for the first time ever. I feel like you're acting like I'll be lucky to get out of there alive....

Anyway, the advice is appreciated.

The stability of the Prism is starting to look better for my fishing oriented trip.

I don't remember feeling much difference in stability between the Magic and the Prism - maybe a bit. I do remember hitting my hands more on the gunwales with the Prism due to it being a bit wider, but it wasn't a huge difference. The Merlin II on the other hand - that boat felt very tippy to me compared to the other two. I'm still surprised how many Merlin II's I see around. I guess most of them that I see are for sale, so maybe that is the reason - everyone who owns a Magic loves them and won't part with them. :)

quote MNDan: "I don't remember feeling much difference in stability between the Magic and the Prism - maybe a bit. I do remember hitting my hands more on the gunwales with the Prism due to it being a bit wider, but it wasn't a huge difference. The Merlin II on the other hand - that boat felt very tippy to me compared to the other two. I'm still surprised how many Merlin II's I see around. I guess most of them that I see are for sale, so maybe that is the reason - everyone who owns a Magic loves them and won't part with them. :) "

I have been following this thread closely and appreciate the input. I have several years of tandem paddling then went to kayak for solo for the past 15 years. The portaging thing and aging has me wanting to get a solo canoe with research ongoing. I have upcoming plans to paddle a magic thanks to another board member and wish I could get a ride in a rapid fire or one of the longer pack boats.
To the quote from MNDan, I hope some are going to be for sale because it looks much more the boat I am seeking. The prism I paddled seemed wide and to stick up in the air at the bow and stern catching the wind. I know the magic is 3 inches narrower and sits 2-3 inches lower according to specs.
And to chipaddler, thanks for the post and getting input on this topic. I think the specs on the prism would make it a better start for a fishing oriented trip. I recall thinking that the prism I paddled would be good to fish from, but I only fish for food so will go for tripping potential.

quote chipaddler: "it's not like I'm paddling/tripping for the first time ever. I feel like you're acting like I'll be lucky to get out of there alive....


"

Pretty close to true for me...:) - it was an adventure.

Prism..flatter bottom. Wider bottom. Stable stationary.

Magic..rounder bottom and narrower. Stability comes when heeled. Unless you hook a 50 lb fish heeling probably is not in the cards.

Merlin II. Stable but a little slower. Black Gold layup rounder bottom than the UL kevlar layup. Again good secondary stability, which is not so much a feature of Wenonah's chosen hull shape when there is tumblehome.

I miss my Merlin II sometimes. It was more forgiving than my round bottom solos.

Well I was in the same boat a year ago, I had a very scattered experience with solos and it basically meant I was starting from scratch. I had demoed a few Prism’s and everytime I did it was windy and I went away with the feeling that it just didn’t like to turn, it did it and I could make it but it sure felt like I was fighting it, the lack of rocker was very apparent, even to a novice like myself. I ended up renting a Magic for a few days on a short trip.

My impressions were empty it was a little more wild than the Prism but to be fair with very little experience BOTH boats feel pretty damn wild when empty, it’s just a feeling you have to get use to and that will come with time. Loaded the Magic became very tame and completely manageable, even for a complete noob. I really wanted to rent the Magic because I had a feeling it would be the boat I’d ultimately want to purchase which is ironic because after the trip I decided I would look at something different and then what do you know a few months later I get a screaming deal on a Magic anyways. Glad I did, it would seem all I needed was a bit more time in it to feel completely comfortable when empty, that or I gained 20 lbs since then and it was just sitting lower, I suppose both options are possible lol.

I wouldn’t plan on fishing out of either of them unless you have some ballast (dry bags filled with water works best for me) in there to tame it down, and even then who knows what will happen. So I would say it’s pretty much a toss up, one is much less maneuverable (The Prism) and one is just a bit more lively, the Magic will calm down when loaded, the Prism will never turn any better, it’s really hard to say which would be better, they are both going to take some time to master and I think they are both going to be capable of safely moving you around with the proper amount of caution.

quote Ragged: "... the Prism will never turn any better ...,
"

a wise man once said: "you can make a fast boat turn, but you cannot make a slow boat go fast"

I wouldn’t plan on fishing out of either of them unless you have some ballast (dry bags filled with water works best for me) in there to tame it down, and even then who knows what will happen. So I would say it’s pretty much a toss up, one is much less maneuverable (The Prism) and one is just a bit more lively, the Magic will calm down when loaded, the Prism will never turn any better, it’s really hard to say which would be better, they are both going to take some time to master and I think they are both going to be capable of safely moving you around with the proper amount of caution. "

Just need to spend more time in your Magic. I spent 4 days last week back home in N WI fishing out of my Magic. Virtually empty, until I found the Walters anyway, and she was solid as a rock. Even anchored up with a pretty good chop coming across the lake, she was good to go.

This may be a case of overthinking things. There are differences in canoes of every sort, perhaps amplified with solo. With that said if someone is new to taking solo trips it is likely good to try different types of canoes to get different perspectives. Kind of like who likes steak and who likes seafood. It is good to try different things until you figure out what you like. Especially if the paddler does not seem to have plans to travel terribly far like the OP.
On the other hand I have decades of canoeing experience but limited solo experience with only two different solo canoes so what do I know?

quote GraniteCliffs: "This may be a case of overthinking things. There are differences in canoes of every sort, perhaps amplified with solo. With that said if someone is new to taking solo trips it is likely good to try different types of canoes to get different perspectives. Kind of like who likes steak and who likes seafood. It is good to try different things until you figure out what you like. Especially if the paddler does not seem to have plans to travel terribly far like the OP.
On the other hand I have decades of canoeing experience but limited solo experience with only two different solo canoes so what do I know? "

Absolutely GrantieCliffs, I agree, and it's not over thinking at all.

If possible, it's always best to try out several different makes and models IMHO. Then a person can determine what works best for them, or what canoe they find the most fun to paddle.

What one person thinks is the "Cat's Meow", another paddler might find disappointing.

Hans Solo

A couple of comments on the Magic...
Kneeling - when I got mine the previous owner had raised the seat so he could kneel. The drops were about an inch below the gunwales. I could not get my size 12 NRS Kickers under that seat without some real contortions, which left me with a bad feeling about getting out if I had to. Also at that seat height I always felt like I was going over when sitting. I replaced those drops with the stock Bell drops (2-3 in.??). Feels much better but no way to kneel in it for me.

Fishing - do it all the time. Comfortably able to cast either side or front. Keep all my fishing gear in front of me within easy reach. As someone noted earlier, don't reach behind you...

quote ZaraSp00k: "

a wise man once said: "you can make a fast boat turn, but you cannot make a slow boat go fast"


"

I guess I never felt the Prism was much faster than a Magic, maybe just a tad but always felt pretty close to me, I like the one that can be turned with a little less effort.

quote bmaines: "

Just need to spend more time in your Magic. I spent 4 days last week back home in N WI fishing out of my Magic. Virtually empty, until I found the Walters anyway, and she was solid as a rock. Even anchored up with a pretty good chop coming across the lake, she was good to go.

"

That was only directed for the OP for this trip, of course you can fish just fine but I don't think it would be a sure thing on the first trip, maybe a few days into the trip but I just can't see a virgin soloist being ready to tackle a lunker on day 1, if so props to that guy, he's much more skilled than I was right off the bat!

I used a magic for my solo. Wouldn't use anything else. To the point where I had considered switching entry points because I didn't see the magic on an outfitters online list. I will admit though, I've never paddled a prism.

I'm 6'04" 220 and it took a few miles to get used to the responses of the canoe based on paddle strokes, weight shifts, etc. It felt very tippy at first, but it was like riding a new bike.

My granite gear great northern nimbus pack fit fine both fore and aft. Enough room to adjust it 6 or so inches forward or back. Also had a small blue barrel along which also fit just fine.

I recall getting 6-7 paddles per side. I had a kayak paddle along, but only used it for 20 minutes.

I like the Magic a lot, but I've never paddled a Prism.