i need to convert the power source for my piranhaMAX 165 portable unit from the heavy NP7-12, 12V7Ah battery provided to a AA (lighter) power source. i read many messages to change to 10-pack but don't know what to buy and how to rig......... thx for any help

It is very simple. Ragged is the guy for that kind of thing on here but many guys on this board have done it, including me. Go to Radio Shack or similar store and get an AA battery pack. The 10 packs are harder to find so an 8pack will do if you cant find the ten pack. 10 is much better though.

The battery packs cost about 3.00 and its very simple to wire, as its just two wires, positive and negative ( the harder series wiring is already done for you in the pack). The hardest part is cutting the power cable. Hard only because there is no going back after its been cut! Still, its simple to cut and join to the battery pack. Now is the time to reduce the length of the power cable as well. You don't need that heavy, bulky 15' the units come with. Anyway, before joining the wires, slip a large heat shrink tube on the main wire, then smaller shrink tubing over one end of the positive and negative wire. Join the wires, then slip the small tubing over the join and shrink the wire. Then slide the larger tubing over and join both. The tubing waterproofs the joints. You could wrap with electrical tape afterwards. The other thing is to get some kind of plastic waterproof container to hold the battery pack. I used a Lock and Lock container from walmart. I drilled a small hole through the container to slip the wire through ( before joining), then siliconed around the hole. This gives you a water tight container that you can easily open to change batteries etc. Your power cable should come with an inline fuse, make sure you keep that when wiring. Here is a pic of the container I used:






Moonman.

kanoes had a thread about this. He did a nice job with the conversion.
CB

The 10 aa holders are available from several sources on line. The shipping will prob cost more than the holder.You will get much longer use from 10 than 8.Even though you are increasing capacity only 25 percent you will get much more than that because you are increasng voltage from 12 to 15 and most fish finders shut off at around 10 so the batteries can get much lower and still be above shut down voltage.Also if weight is primary consideration, lithium bat. weigh aprox. 1/2 alkaline and last even longer, but are MUCH more expensive.

big thanks.......got it!

Do you have a feel for how many hours of operation you get out of that battery setup? Trying to think about how many extras I need to bring on a trip.

quote ayudell: "Do you have a feel for how many hours of operation you get out of that battery setup? Trying to think about how many extras I need to bring on a trip."

This link has a bunch of great data on battery life from MagicPaddler.

It seems like the small black and white screen fishfinders draw about 100mA. If you use 10 AA "Energizer Ultimate lithium" batteries, you have 3000maH (milli-amp hours) of battery energy. This means you will have 3000maH/100mA=30 hrs of battery life. Standard "copper-top" AA's have about 2000maH of battery energy, so you only get 2000maH/100mA=20 hrs of battery life for a 100mA fishfinder.

Your mileage may vary significantly. Some fishfinders draw 200mA, the GPS ones seem like about 500mA. If you have a 500mA fishfinder, then you will only get 3000maH/500mA=6 hours from the "Energizer ultimate lithiums", and 4 hours from the copper-top AA's.

I'm not quite done yet, but here are some pictures of my battery pack, mostly copied from others ideas on this site. I did 10 AA NiMh eneloops.

Parts list for battery box:

10 AA Battery Holder
9V battery connector (get at radio shack)
Pelican 1010 Micro (overkill)
Waterproof cable fittings
Waterproof velcro stick-on (more than strong enough)

The workstation is oak (should have used ash, should have rounded ends more). I drilled holes 1" on center and put a little green mark every 6". The holes double as ruler/3mm bungee tiedown/screw holes. Parts list:

Spring Creek Clamps (overkill)
Tite-lok rod holder
Cup Holder
Eyelets

It's all that, and a cup holder!!

quote Exo: "It's all that, and a cup holder!!"

It's actually mainly a cup holder. The extra stuff is just to disguise it as something sporting. If you are addicted to caffeine, you understand.

Notlight- Nice message. Thanks for posting all of the supplies!

I like the removable dash. I see you have NiMh rechargeable batteries in the holder. I have not tested those batteries but I looked up discharge curves published by others. They run out of power when the voltage gets down to about 1.1 volts. The maximum voltage is about 1.4 volts. You have 10 batteries in series so that will give you a operating voltage from about 14 volts to 11 volts (ideal range). When the battery voltage gets down to 11 volts your detector will still be operating well then the batteries will run out of energy and the voltage will drop fast and the detector will stop operating. MiMh batteries have more energy than the NiCad and are much less fussy then the LiPo batteries I tested. I have had some trouble with the connections between batteries in similar holders to the one you are using. The problem occurred where the spring connects to the positive end of the next battery contact. I have never had new holders not work fine. Watch for bad connections after a year or two. We will need a on the water report. Nice looking system.

quote MagicPaddler: "I like the removable dash. I see you have NiMh rechargeable batteries in the holder. I have not tested those batteries but I looked up discharge curves published by others. They run out of power when the voltage gets down to about 1.1 volts. The maximum voltage is about 1.4 volts. You have 10 batteries in series so that will give you a operating voltage from about 14 volts to 11 volts (ideal range). When the battery voltage gets down to 11 volts your detector will still be operating well then the batteries will run out of energy and the voltage will drop fast and the detector will stop operating. MiMh batteries have more energy than the NiCad and are much less fussy then the LiPo batteries I tested. I have had some trouble with the connections between batteries in similar holders to the one you are using. The problem occurred where the spring connects to the positive end of the next battery contact. I have never had new holders not work fine. Watch for bad connections after a year or two. We will need a on the water report. Nice looking system. "

I thought about eventually getting this 15000maH battery. It has a 12V output for fishfinder, USB output for iphone/GPS charging, and a 12V input for maybe a solar panel. I'd have to get a bigger waterproof box for it. I wasn't sure about reliability (or explosion), so I thought that would be a project for a different time. But, that is why I bought the stainless cable entries instead of just using glue around the cable where it enter the box - it would allow me to just take everything apart and switch to a different battery box.

You can get two of those 15000maH batteries for the price of one Goal Zero Sherpa 50. One could be in a waterproof box and charging, while the second one was in use in a second identical waterproof box, and vice versa. Maybe you worry less about reliability then because you have two in case one fails.

quote NotLight: "

quote ayudell: "Do you have a feel for how many hours of operation you get out of that battery setup? Trying to think about how many extras I need to bring on a trip."

This link has a bunch of great data on battery life from MagicPaddler.

It seems like the small black and white screen fishfinders draw about 100mA. If you use 10 AA "Energizer Ultimate lithium" batteries, you have 3000maH (milli-amp hours) of battery energy. This means you will have 3000maH/100mA=30 hrs of battery life. Standard "copper-top" AA's have about 2000maH of battery energy, so you only get 2000maH/100mA=20 hrs of battery life for a 100mA fishfinder.

Your mileage may vary significantly. Some fishfinders draw 200mA, the GPS ones seem like about 500mA. If you have a 500mA fishfinder, then you will only get 3000maH/500mA=6 hours from the "Energizer ultimate lithiums", and 4 hours from the copper-top AA's.


"

You state “10 AA “energizer Ultimate Lithium” batteries, you have 3000mah”. What you have said is correct but not at the correct voltage. From data I got off the internet years ago I determined that 9 Lithium batteries would give good operating voltage for a detector and it does. After I did my own battery measurements I found that 8 AA Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries will do just as good of a job. The first graph in the link you referenced above is for 9 Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries.
So I recommend if using
Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries use 8 in series
Alkaline batteries use 10 in series
NiMh use 10 in series
NiCad use 10 in series
LiPo use 3 in series
Everyone has their own tripping stile and length. The 15000 mAh battery is over kill for me and it looks a little delicate (not water proof)(water proof box is heavy). I am concerned about weight ( I’m getting old). This is how I decide how much battery capacity I need.
(Number of fishing days) * (number of hours I fish in a day) * (current draw from my detector) = Battery capacity needed.
(8.5 days) * (6 hours/Day) * (170 mA)= 8670 mAh
I think your batteries are listed as 1500 mAh so I would need 6 sets of your batteries. Most of the detectors that people ore purchasing for canoes draw about ½ what my detector draws so 3 sets of batteries will do them.

quote MagicPaddler: "

quote NotLight: "

quote ayudell: "Do you have a feel for how many hours of operation you get out of that battery setup? Trying to think about how many extras I need to bring on a trip."

This link has a bunch of great data on battery life from MagicPaddler.


It seems like the small black and white screen fishfinders draw about 100mA. If you use 10 AA "Energizer Ultimate lithium" batteries, you have 3000maH (milli-amp hours) of battery energy. This means you will have 3000maH/100mA=30 hrs of battery life. Standard "copper-top" AA's have about 2000maH of battery energy, so you only get 2000maH/100mA=20 hrs of battery life for a 100mA fishfinder.


Your mileage may vary significantly. Some fishfinders draw 200mA, the GPS ones seem like about 500mA. If you have a 500mA fishfinder, then you will only get 3000maH/500mA=6 hours from the "Energizer ultimate lithiums", and 4 hours from the copper-top AA's.



"

You state “10 AA “energizer Ultimate Lithium” batteries, you have 3000mah”. What you have said is correct but not at the correct voltage. From data I got off the internet years ago I determined that 9 Lithium batteries would give good operating voltage for a detector and it does. After I did my own battery measurements I found that 8 AA Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries will do just as good of a job. The first graph in the link you referenced above is for 9 Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries.
So I recommend if using
Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries use 8 in series
Alkaline batteries use 10 in series
NiMh use 10 in series
NiCad use 10 in series
LiPo use 3 in series
Everyone has their own tripping stile and length. The 15000 mAh battery is over kill for me and it looks a little delicate (not water proof)(water proof box is heavy). I am concerned about weight ( I’m getting old). This is how I decide how much battery capacity I need.
(Number of fishing days) * (number of hours I fish in a day) * (current draw from my detector) = Battery capacity needed.
(8.5 days) * (6 hours/Day) * (170 mA)= 8670 mAh
I think your batteries are listed as 1500 mAh so I would need 6 sets of your batteries. Most of the detectors that people ore purchasing for canoes draw about ½ what my detector draws so 3 sets of batteries will do them.
"

That is one of the reasons I haven't finished my battery box - I think the best battery choice depends on the situation. So it is hard to finalize on something. For daily use, I think the Eneloops are a good choice, because they hold 2000maH (older version is 1500maH), supposedly can be recharged 1000 times, they have multiple uses besides fishfinder, and their reliability seems high. But, yes, you would not want to bring 30-60 of them on a trip. For a trip you could bring the 24 Ultimate lithiums at 3000maH per 8 batteries - the lightest option, but this is a higher one time cost because you can't recharge them. Then you have the 15000maH battery in the link, with unknown reliability - but if you have color fishfinder with GPS or other recharging needs like an iPhone or GPS, then you might want that bigger 15000maH size; plus, the 15000maH is cheaper in the long run than Ultimate Lithiums since it is also rechargeable. Or you could use Ragged's 18650B battery setup. I think a good battery box would weigh less than the Pelican, but be just big enough to use with any of those above battery options. Just connect whatever battery pack you want to use by the 9V-type connector inside the box, then close up the box.

Notlight you seem to be able to do delicate work if that is true have you considered LiPo batteries. For $11.62 each you get a 5000 mAh battery. You would also need a protection circuit which could be used to protect the battery during charge and discharge. I made a box with a protection circuit in it for under $12.00. For instructions go to QJ. And scroll about half way down the page.
Grade B LiPo battery If you only want one battery the shipping cost will be too high. Chose a battery stocked in USA.

quote MagicPaddler: "Notlight you seem to be able to do delicate work if that is true have you considered LiPo batteries. For $11.62 each you get a 5000 mAh battery. You would also need a protection circuit which could be used to protect the battery during charge and discharge. I made a box with a protection circuit in it for under $12.00. For instructions go to QJ. And scroll about half way down the page.
Grade B LiPo battery If you only want one battery the shipping cost will be too high. Chose a battery stocked in USA."

I am chicken to mess around much with the lithium batteries. The list of warnings and hazards wherever they sell them is longer than the disclaimers on the drug commercials on TV.

But what do you think about this 11.1V 18650B pack and this charger ? It is more expensive, a bit heavy, and it doesn't seem like you could field charge it. But, it packs a lot of mah, would fit in the Pelican 1010, and includes the protection and balance (I think balance) PCB, and it is assembled and ready to go. I could add a reverse 9V connector to it and have it snap into the 9V type connector inside the Pelican box. Still a fire hazard, potentially.

The 11.1 volts is 3 cells in series. The 5200mAh is 2 2600mAh batteries in parallel. That battery is essentially the same as the one I suggested with the board built into the battery. You will pay a little for them to do the assembly. You will notice the charger has only 2 leads going to the battery. For protecting 3 series LiPo batteries a minimum of 4 wires are required. The board built into the battery will have those leads connected to them. This battery will do almost the same as the battery and protection board I had suggested. This battery is listed as having a maximum discharge current of 13 amps. For ease of assembly the protection box with the other battery I would suggest a max of 1 or 2 amps with a peak of 4 amps.
Fire
I have never had one get hot. From what I have read there is 3 things that can cause them to get hot enough to start fire. 1 Any cell is over charged. 2 any cell is over discharged the cell will fail and get hot when charged. 2 over current on charge or discharge. The circuit card I use and probably the one they use prevents over charge and over discharge and over current. So IF the board is working the battery should be protected. Some higher end control circuits also have a over temp shutdown. Hobby king sells a fire proof bag to protect from fire. I put my batteries in a tin cam and set them on a concrete floor while charging and I limit my charging current to less than 2 amps.

NotLight
I would like to use some of your pictures. Please email me at
Liddonley-canoeboard@yahoo.com

quote MagicPaddler: "NotLight
I would like to use some of your pictures. Please email me at
Liddonley-canoeboard@yahoo.com
"

I'm not quite done. I finally got the cable grommet and put it in last weekend. I'll try to take better pictures and email after I figure out and finish my through hull setup. Maybe this weekend.

Very Similar to a setup I just made for a buddy







Just a small Otter box case I picked up at REI, stainless cable Gland and some Ebay 10 cell holders, I put a small Molex connector on it to make it quick change with another pe-loaded 10 cell pack, total build cost would be around $25 if you had to buy the case, I had it laying around from a work project so it was a freebie.

I like the twisted battery leads. I will copycat that. I am unsatisfied with the fuse holder I used. It is the one that came with my garmin. Too big. Any ideas?

quote NotLight: "I like the twisted battery leads. I will copycat that. I am unsatisfied with the fuse holder I used. It is the one that came with my garmin. Too big. Any ideas?
"

I wanted the packs with the 9volt connection ontop like yours, but couldn't find a deal on them, I think I got 6 of those packs with bare leads for $12 shipped. I actually thought about putting a fuse in but got lazy.... probably should have but my Max 230 from Hummingbird (holds 8 AA's) didn't have a fuse so I figured if they can do it so can I. I have seen some small fuse holders but I don't think they are all that much smaller, some of the micro blade types may fit better just because they are not as long as that assembly.

NotLight
I am interested in the pictures of the way you mounted your pole holder and fish detector (workstation). I would need your permission to use it.

quote MagicPaddler: "NotLight
I am interested in the pictures of the way you mounted your pole holder and fish detector (workstation). I would need your permission to use it.
"

Permission granted.

Thanks to the great ideas on this forum this is how I rigged up my Garmin. Got the 10 battery holder used Duracell alkaline batteries I soldered my wires and shrink wrapped them. A couple of bicycle innertube bands to hold the batteries solid, put in a ziplock and it fits perfect in a Tamrac 5691 camera case. Let the lead come out of the flap and snap the rear belt loop strap around the thwart. I don't know how many hours I've got out of these, but I've been out several times and the Garmin still shows over 12 volts. Oh yea and whoever came up with the idea of putting the transducer in a ziplock bag of water and setting it on the floor of your craft, that is so simple, portable and brilliant.

Tod

quote Neflatlander52: " Oh yea and whoever came up with the idea of putting the transducer in a ziplock bag of water and setting it on the floor of your craft, that is so simple, portable and brilliant.

Tod"

I like your camera bag idea.

For the transducer, I wasn't sure if I wanted to try the ziploc bag idea, or the foam ring full of water at the bottom of the boat idea. So, I kind of made a hybrid - a plastic ring (top 1" of plastic peanut butter jar, bottom cut off) with a baggie rubber banded around it to hold water. It seemed to work well - I think it's maybe easier to fill and dump than the Ziploc, but you get the same effect of it molding to the hull. But I'll try just the Ziploc bag next time.

NotLight
I am getting pictures together for a possible Canoecopia presentation. Your workstations would be a good example of what I am interested in. Could I get you to retake the picture of the 2 workstations setting on the gunnels without the bicycle in the background.
I have been looking for a way to describe using a baggy to put a transducer inside the canoe. Your center picture above with your description of the cut peanut butter jar would also help out.
Neflatlander52
I like your self mounting camera case battery holder.
To meet the legal requirements I need permission granted for each picture. I think an email with the pictures attached and permission granted in the email or a post with the picture and permission in it would work. I prefer the email but will accept either. I will give credit to the supplier of the pictures. It could be your name or your board name or a BWAC.COM member.
I have also been asked to get pictures of big fish. Anyone with pictures of do it yourself canoe accessories or big fish who would allow us to use them please send them with permission to the address below. Liddonley-canoeboard@yahoo.com
All help is deeply appreciated.

I will take a new complete set of pictures maybe this weekend out on the lake and email next week or so with some kind of release.

quote NotLight: "I will take a new complete set of pictures maybe this weekend out on the lake and email next week or so with some kind of release.
"

Thank you and within the next week or month would be great.

I am trying to settle on which setup to go with mounting a thru the hull transducer on my Kevlar canoe.

I have never tried the transducer in the Baggie full of water idea.

How does the transducer stay "stable" in the baggie full of water. Won't it just move around when paddling on waves in a lake? How do you keep it from moving about in the Baggie?

quote Wally13: "I am trying to settle on which setup to go with mounting a thru the hull transducer on my Kevlar canoe.

I have never tried the transducer in the Baggie full of water idea.

How does the transducer stay "stable" in the baggie full of water. Won't it just move around when paddling on waves in a lake? How do you keep it from moving about in the Baggie?"

I think with the ziploc bag, you put your transducer on top of a ziploc bag half full of water sealed tight, and not in it?

But I was wondering the same thing. My plan is to somehow mount the transducer to the plastic ring I made from the plastic peanut butter jar. The purpose of the ring is to serve as a level rigid base to keep the transducer level and stable. But my first attempt at a mount was an epic fail. So i just tried without it. It still seemed to work just fine.

I look at the baggy full of water mount as a temporary mount to try that location in the canoe. My preferred location is like NotLights picture above, near the front flotation tank. In a solo canoe once out in deep water a solo paddler cannot reach the transducer at the flotation tank to set it up if it falls over. I have duct taped the transducer wire to the side of the canoe relying on the stiffness of the wire to hold the transducer in place for 1 day to see if that location worked well. In my Magic I cut the bottom of the jar to match the shape of the canoe and used RTV to seal it to the bottom of the canoe. The transducer is held to the bottom of the canoe by a pop sickle stick through holes in the jar. A few drops of water off of my paddle is all it takes to make the transducer work. In my other boats I have used RTV or GOOP or epoxy to fill the void between the canoe and transducer. With RTV or GOOP the transducer can be removed with a thin sharp putty knife and lots of patients.

quote Ragged: "Very Similar to a setup I just made for a buddy









Just a small Otter box case I picked up at REI, stainless cable Gland and some Ebay 10 cell holders, I put a small Molex connector on it to make it quick change with another pe-loaded 10 cell pack, total build cost would be around $25 if you had to buy the case, I had it laying around from a work project so it was a freebie."

Ragged or Notlight, can you show a picture inside the box of the gland connector/wire. how do you connect the wire going into the gland to the battery pack? Ragged, you must have another connector that the Molex plug into right?

I have the same battery box setup on mine and use a Plano waterproof plastic box for mine, works well.

quote gsfisher13: "Ragged or Notlight, can you show a picture inside the box of the gland connector/wire. how do you connect the wire going into the gland to the battery pack? Ragged, you must have another connector that the Molex plug into right? "

Here is picture. I used the 3A fuse holder that came with my Garmin. I took the fuse holder apart, cut off the existing red wires, and soldered to the fittings inside the fuse holder - that way I would have fewer connections. That was quite tedious. Maybe better to either buy a new crimp-on inline fuse connector, or leave an inch or so of the original wires leading into the fuse holder to solder to. If I had to redo, I might have tried putting a half hitch in the black part of the cable, inside the box, as a strain relief. Note: better to practice cutting, get all the lead lengths right as part of the practice, and THEN cut down the length of the power cable and completely redo it, if you plan to shorten the power cable. Otherwise easy to make a mistake you can't undo. (Note: I am NOT going to cut down the length of my transducer cable like I did the power cable. I am worried about messing up some sort of balance in the transducer.)

This morning I was reading on the fishing forum someone(yoman84) said they mount there transducer with electrical putty. I went to the hardware store and bought some and cut a piece about 1.25” square. Put the square in the bottom of the canoe and pressed a skimmer type of transducer into it and shaped the putty up against the transducer. Then put duct tape across it to keep the wire from getting jerked. Flipped the canoe over and put on the roof of the car for the trip to the river. Went for a 3 hour paddle and it worked well. When I got home I pulled the duct tape off and pulled the transducer out of the putty and remover the putty from the bottom of the canoe. There was a small amount of putty stuck to the canoe and transducer. I think this would work well on a rental canoe or for a temporary mount to check location.

Could you put a piece of plastic under the electrical putty to stop the sticking, or would it mess up the signal/adhesion?

Here's rev-2 of my modified Ziploc bag approach. Untested. It seems very stable in the canoe and doesn't slide around at all. Used a peanut butter jar and tin snips, and then the 3mm stretchy cord to hold the Ziploc on. I think I can cut down the height of the peanut butter jar another 1/2" to make it even more stable.

MagicPaddler, sorry I have not mailed pictures. It's been a busy couple weeks, plus I could not find a release online that I liked - every release I find is written as some kind of adhesion contract.

I am up to about 4 hours of paddling with the eneloops on a single charge. Trying to keep track of about how long they last in actual use. I think the theory is about 10 hours. The voltage dropped quite a bit at first, and has now been sitting at 11.2V for a while.

I have now actually tested the peanut butter jar/Ziploc bag thing and it works really well. It's really stable in the boat, fills and empties quickly, and it seems to have a good signal (except when my first Ziploc sprung a leak). I cut down the height of the peanut butter jar, and cut some really shallow reliefs on the sides so it sits a bit firmer on the canoe bottom.

NotLight
I would like to hear your evaluation of the use of electrical putty. Either in the baggy or stuck to the bottom of the canoe. With it stuck to the bottom of the canoe it stays in place but is easy to remove.
Nice shot of your work station in use.
Next week I leave on a 2 week trip.
MagicPaddler
PS
I will not be making any money off of your pictures so all I need is your permission in a email with the pictures attached. Like this.
Lawrence you can use the attached pictures for the presentation.

I found this "GB Duct Seal Putty" at Menard's today. This seems to be what the kayak guys are using. It says nontoxic and nonhardening. It is very sticky when dry, but it is not sticky at all if wet. I think the stuff would work well where you see it half hidden away inside a kayak compartment. There, it would not get as wet as if in a canoe. Plus less gross junk falling on it and sticking since it is not out in the open like in a canoe. I will try the stuff in the canoe in plastic, but I am not sure it will work out as well as it does in a kayak.

I cut off a chunk and put it in a container of water. It does not seem to dissolve in water - which is good. I'll leave it in the water container all week to see what happens.

PS - I am at about 6 hours total now with the eneloops and the Garmin 101. I did not check the voltage. Hoping for 10 hrs.

I wonder if Duct seal Putty and electrical putty are the same thing. Someone else told me they make a bowl on the bottom of the canoe with duct seal and fill it with water and put the transducer in it. Sounds like an extra step.

Poke around the house for anything round/plastic that can be cut off to make a ring about 1/8 inch deep and will fit a transducer. JB wled the ring into the bottom of the canoe. Add a tiny bit of water in it and then place your ducer in the ring. Works 100% as good as if it was over the side of the canoe.

quote sirlips: "Poke around the house for anything round/plastic that can be cut off to make a ring about 1/8 inch deep and will fit a transducer. JB wled the ring into the bottom of the canoe. Add a tiny bit of water in it and then place your ducer in the ring. Works 100% as good as if it was over the side of the canoe."

That is a good idea.

Moonman had pictures of a simple foam ring with some adhesive, sort of like you describe, in this thread. I guess the foam is nice because it bends to the shape of the hull. I've been trying to copy that setup, but trying to make it temporary/removable, and also trying to stabilize the transducer.

I saw some other pictures somewhat like what you are describing on the web - they use a PVC pipe ring, and then a matching PVC pipe cap and they mount the transducer to the cap. That is a permanent setup, so you don't have to remove the transducer and stuff when portaging.

quote MagicPaddler: "NotLight
I would like to hear your evaluation of the use of electrical putty. Either in the baggy or stuck to the bottom of the canoe. With it stuck to the bottom of the canoe it stays in place but is easy to remove.
Nice shot of your work station in use.
Next week I leave on a 2 week trip.
MagicPaddler
PS
I will not be making any money off of your pictures so all I need is your permission in a email with the pictures attached. Like this.
Lawrence you can use the attached pictures for the presentation.
"

I tried the duct seal putty out this evening. First try: put about a tablespoon of putty on the transducer, put plastic over bottom side of putty, taped to canoe. Worked great, surprised at how little putty you need. Second try: took off plastic and tape, and stuck the bare putty directly to (wet) canoe bottom. Here my initial impressions were correct - the putty is extremely sticky when dry, and not very sticky when wet. But despite being wet, it stuck enough and worked great.

Then I tried the simple Ziploc bag full of water under the transducer. Seemed to work just as well as the putty, but way less mess.

So my thinking on the putty is great for a kayak compartment that stays somewhat dry, but tougher for a canoe because of the mess and the lack of stickiness when wet for portaging purposes. It's just pretty tough to beat the Ziploc bag for performance and simplicity.

(PS - I'm at about 7 hours with the eneloops in the Garmin 101, still at 11.2V. Hoping to see if it gets to the expected 10hrs by the end of this week.)

Good thread! I am just about ready to put my set-up together. I am going with 12 eneloops in a Pelican Micro case and a PiranhaMAX 175.

I thought about the Marcum Showdown but it doesn't have water temp (why would you for ice fishing).

I don't think I will fuse mine. Not too many worries about over-voltage damaging the finder. Fuses are nice to prevent fire and to protect the wiring in "normal" marine installations.

I plan to put a foam holder in the stern for the transducer. I am still not sure I want to cut and splice the transducer cable to save a little weight. Might hurt resale if I upgrade later...

I see a couple of references to cutting and splicing the transducer cable in this thread. For what its worth, When I installed mine I called Humminbird technical support and they emphatically stated DO NOT CUT the transducer cable. Its a special shielded wire that cannot be spliced like convention electrical wire.

Show pics when you are done!

Now that I've been using mine a while, I want to make an alternative mount. Something like those vexilars that are sort of all one unit and sit on the ground in an zippable bag. I am thinking of making something like a U-shaped tube out of thin PVC pipe. The tube would double as a battery holder (MagicPaddlers original idea from another thread), and also as a stand for the fishfinder. I would set up the unit on the floor of the boat or on top of my tackle/boat bag, and then just collapse and stash the unit in my tackle bag for transit.

quote BnD: "I see a couple of references to cutting and splicing the transducer cable in this thread. For what its worth, When I installed mine I called Humminbird technical support and they emphatically stated DO NOT CUT the transducer cable. Its a special shielded wire that cannot be spliced like convention electrical wire."

It's easy to do if you know how. 30+ years as an electronics/communications tech. Just not sure it's worth it.

I have cut and shortened a transducer cable and it worked well afterwards. Good electrical practices keep the splice short and solder all connections and it worked. BUT IT’S NOT WORTH IT!

NotLight
Are you using 10 Eneloop rechargeable batteries? Can you tell if the back light is on during the day time? Back lights suck the energy out of batteries.

quote MagicPaddler: "NotLight
Are you using 10 Eneloop rechargeable batteries? Can you tell if the back light is on during the day time? Back lights suck the energy out of batteries.
"

I am using 10 eneloops. The garmin says it sees 11.2V. I will measure with dvm and a small load at some point to verify.

I cannot tell if backlight is on during day. It would be so easy for the manufacturer to put an indicator on the display lcd to say if it was on - maybe there is and I haven't noticed. If choosing between low power fishfinders, I think that would be an important feature to look for; or the ability to disable the backlight.

After several dead batteries I opened the case and cut the wire to the back light.

I just tested my new Lowrance X-4 fishfinder with a 8 lithium battery pack per Magic Paddlers instructions.

I found that this unit has a real nice feature ... "Memory". The X-4 has an internal backup battery that saves the following user settings when the unit is turned OFF. Zoom, Sensitivity, Grayline, Chart Speed, Battery Alarm, Fish Alarm, Display Contrast, Battery Alarm, Shallow and Deep Alarms .... and BACKLIGHT.

MagicPaddler reminded me to make sure the Backlight feature was "turned off" and even better ...never have the Backlight on ... so as to not use up battery power. I like the fact that I don't have to cut the Backlight wires on this unit so the Backlight is not on.

Can't wait to try it out in Quetico in a couple of weeks.

quote NotLight: "

quote MagicPaddler: "NotLight
Are you using 10 Eneloop rechargeable batteries? Can you tell if the back light is on during the day time? Back lights suck the energy out of batteries.
"

I am using 10 eneloops. The garmin says it sees 11.2V. I will measure with dvm and a small load at some point to verify.


I cannot tell if backlight is on during day. It would be so easy for the manufacturer to put an indicator on the display lcd to say if it was on - maybe there is and I haven't noticed. If choosing between low power fishfinders, I think that would be an important feature to look for; or the ability to disable the backlight.


"

I'm pretty sure your Garmin does have a back light feature off. My echo 100 does. One note though, I have noticed that even though the unit is turned off, it can turn on when connected to battery power. There is a turnoff when connected to power type menu choice but the finder seems to forget, when it is turned off and reverts to standard mode - which is to instantly turn on when connected. After a couple episodes of drained batteries I now routinely pull out one battery from the holder pack when putting the unit away. Still, it might be just me missing something obvious.

Moonman.

FWIW - The default backlight setting on the PiranhaMAX is off.

I know this thread is a bit old but, I have a question concerning power. I recently purchased a PiranhaMax 175 and am basically modifying my power source similar to what NotLight did with his finder. If my unit operates between 10-20 VDC, could I use a 12 AA battery bank as opposed to and 8 or 10 battery bank? I'm not versed at all in electronics whatsoever. I'm assuming that if I don't exceed the max of 20 VDC all will be well with the unit. I just figured that 18 VDC with 12 batteries would likely last longer that 15 VDC with 10. How much longer? I have no clue. I welcome any comments. Thank you!

quote troutdude: "I know this thread is a bit old but, I have a question concerning power. I recently purchased a PiranhaMax 175 and am basically modifying my power source similar to what NotLight did with his finder. If my unit operates between 10-20 VDC, could I use a 12 AA battery bank as opposed to and 8 or 10 battery bank? I'm not versed at all in electronics whatsoever. I'm assuming that if I don't exceed the max of 20 VDC all will be well with the unit. I just figured that 18 VDC with 12 batteries would likely last longer that 15 VDC with 10. How much longer? I have no clue. I welcome any comments. Thank you!"

You should be ok as long as you are below 20V. The fish finder has a built in voltage regulator(s) to step down the voltage from your battery pack to whatever it uses/needs. I suspect the extra voltage will be wasted as heat energy in the regulator, and not improve your battery life vs if you only used 10 batteries. But it would depend on the style of regulator they used.

I agree with NotLight
The PiranhaMax is a newer detector than what I did my measurements on but I found that the batteries would last longer if the voltage was between 10 and 12 volts. So I think that 12 batteries in series will last less time than 10 batteries in series and 10 will last significantly longer than 8 or 9 batteries. We are talking about alkaline batteries. With lithium batteries 8 batteries will last longer than 10
More battery info than you probably want.

quote MagicPaddler: "I agree with NotLight
The PiranhaMax is a newer detector than what I did my measurements on but I found that the batteries would last longer if the voltage was between 10 and 12 volts. So I think that 12 batteries in series will last less time than 10 batteries in series and 10 will last significantly longer than 8 or 9 batteries. We are talking about alkaline batteries. With lithium batteries 8 batteries will last longer than 10
More battery info than you probably want. "

MagicPaddler,

Will you publish any kind of summer trip report? I understand you were gone a long time, and in the Rapid Fire? Was wondering how well that all worked and how much food you had to carry, etc in the smaller (?) boat. Plus the Spot failure....

I did 2 trips 14 day and a 15 day. Have had a computer crash and am just getting it back. I will get both reports up by fall.

Thanks for all the great info and the crushing migraine I feel coming on after reading more battery info than anyone should have a right to know. lol!

I just ran across The EBL AA, 1.2 v, 2800 mAh super capacity rechargeable batteries on Amazon. With a 10 battery bank I would be starting off operations at 12 v @ 28000 mAh. Seems like this might be a good find. Wonder how long it would take to drop from 12 v to 10 v and the detector needed a battery change out? Thoughts?

The herd of nerds that is the internet seem to swear by the eneloop brand rechargeable batteries. Most other brands are far less reliable, I guess. Not sure about that brand you mention. I use eneloops because of all the good internet reviews.

When you "stack" 10 1.2V batteries end-to-end to get 12V, the mAh of the battery pack is still only 2800mAh, unfortunately. And adding more batteries to the stack doesn't really help, unfortunately. I can't say for sure, but I would guess you'd get 15-20hrs on your Piranamax with 2800maH. I assume that unit is no color, no GPS, no fancy downimaging, and you keep the backlight off (those are battery hogs).

Incidentally, on my new fish finder I am using only 8 eneloops (9.6V), and it seems to work just as well, and just as long, as my 10 battery (12V) pack. Not sure 9.6V would work on all fishfinders though. But, if you use the snap connect battery holders like in my pictures, then it is easy enough to order a couple different count battery holders and experiment. by just snapping in a different size battery holder into whatever you use for a battery box.

NotLight, I'm duplicating your battery pack. Seems simple and easy for a nowhere near electrical engineer as myself. My only question now is batteries as in which ones. I'll likely go with the Energizer Ultimate lithiums this trip as I'm pretty sure 30 AA's (possible overkill) will last for 7 days of fishing (we fish long and hard). When I return, I will look into the rechargeable Enelopes. Specifically as to what I will require to solar charge them when I'm out in the middle of nowhere, which is where I'd rather be. I will also be looking to shortening the transducer cable which I just don't have time to undertake prior to my trip. I'll post a pic of my setup when I return. I basically found a few great ideas from several good people on this board and incorporated them into my own creation. The only thing I can take credit for is fabrication. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

The unit I have is just your standard no frills finder. The backlight is default off, gray scale, alarm off function and no down imaging.

troutdude, I think the ultimate lithiums are a good choice (make sure they are the ultimate, and not the slightly cheaper lithiums that energizer now also makes). I think MagicPaddler figured out that even though the ultimate lithiums cost more, they are actually cheaper to use than alkalines because they have so much capacity.

I am not muchof a fisherman, and probably won't ever bring my depthfinder to the BWCA. It would be wasted weight with my skills. But I like to use it at home as a speedometer when I paddle, and to help me follow the weedline. Plus I love gadgets.

Running a detector on Ultra lithium batteries will cost a littlemore but save you a lot of weight. For cost savings use Ikea AA or Costco AA batteries.

How does using a flasher (I have both a single color and a tri-color model), compare to a basic b/w screen, in terms of battery draw or other convenience?

quote toddhunter: "How does using a flasher (I have both a single color and a tri-color model), compare to a basic b/w screen, in terms of battery draw or other convenience?"

You'd want to double check the manual. But it looks like the FL18 flashers draw 200mA. So they would last about 12 hours on a AA battery pack. The really simple black and white depth finders draw about 90-140mA (about half). But that's sort of a guess.

What happens if you take the 9v connector and simply connect it to a 9v battery? Not enough juice?
Also, although I assume it's just a difference in weight, there are small rechargeable gel batteries that would work in place of the AAs. I think this is the size. http://www.batterymart.com/p-12v-1_3ah-sealed-lead-acid-battery.html I used to run my ice sonars for a while on this, or use it as a backup.

quote toddhunter: "What happens if you take the 9v connector and simply connect it to a 9v battery? Not enough juice?
Also, although I assume it's just a difference in weight, there are small rechargeable gel batteries that would work in place of the AAs. I think this is the size. http://www.batterymart.com/p-12v-1_3ah-sealed-lead-acid-battery.html I used to run my ice sonars for a while on this, or use it as a backup."

The 9V might be too low. Most fish finders seem to want 10V minimum. But, it might work. The other problem is that most 9V batteries only have about 200mah of capacity. That will only power the fish finder for an hour.

The lead acid batteries work. Just not sure how heavy they are. I looked at a small one at Cabelas when I was looking at fishfinders - holy crap was it heavy! But it had 5000mah capacity too.

If you check out batteries plus, just get a smaller 12v battery, it packs smaller than 8 aa batteries.

quote BananaHammock: "If you check out batteries plus, just get a smaller 12v battery, it packs smaller than 8 aa batteries."

I'm going to see if I can get my small 12v gel to charge up, and then compare it to an 8 AA battery pack. I had to order a new power cord for my Echo 150 (less than $20). I think the female connector is corroded.

Something is wrong here. In the Gear Forum it reports the last post to this thread in 12/29/16 but when I enter the thread the last post was in 2015?????? Maybe this post will fix that.

quote MagicPaddler: "Notlight you seem to be able to do delicate work if that is true have you considered LiPo batteries. For $11.62 each you get a 5000 mAh battery. You would also need a protection circuit which could be used to protect the battery during charge and discharge. I made a box with a protection circuit in it for under $12.00. For instructions go to QJ. And scroll about half way down the page.
Grade B LiPo battery If you only want one battery the shipping cost will be too high. Chose a battery stocked in USA."

I've fabricated this system that MP devised. It uses a curtain rod from Ikea for a couple bucks. With 8 AAs, wire, split connectors, nuts and wingnuts and about 15 minutes of fussing with it all was all it took. It worked great last season on the water.

HighnDry
Good to know it is being used. Thanks for letting us know.
The battery holder in
HERE.
The thing to remember is if you are using 8 batteries make them Energizer Ultimate Lithium. All alkaline batteries work best with 10 in series.

MagicPaddler set me up with his 8 Energizer Lithium Battery Depth Finder Power Source a couple of years ago. It has performed flawlessly in combination with my Lowrance X4 fish finder.

It is simple to build and it is very light. I fill the battery holder with 8 Lithium batteries and bring along an extra set of 8 batteries if and when a new set is needed. I can easily get 7 or 8 days of operation and I put in some very long days of fishing.

W13
One of the most common questions I get is how long will my battery last with fish detector XX. Your 7 or 8 days comment will help others.

quote MagicPaddler: "HighnDry
Good to know it is being used. Thanks for letting us know.
The battery holder in
HERE.
The thing to remember is if you are using 8 batteries make them Energizer Ultimate Lithium. All alkaline batteries work b
est with 10 in series. "

Thanks MP. I'm using the ultimate lithiums with my PMav170. The unit was generally on for 2 to 3 hours per day for about 3 or 4 days each trip. I only ran out of pkwer on one trip and had yo replace. I'm most interested in everyone's discussion concernig securing the transducer to the canoe floor. I've tried it
atfaching it with suction cups the outside of the boat at waterlime and securing it with a wooden ruler or twig to the thwrt to keep oriented forward and tivht to the floor. I'm still lookong for a better system.

HighnDry
I have shot through the floor for years. Don’t put the transducer over a thick part of the hull. That means not on a heavy keel line or a foam core. If it will only be used in that boat glue it down with bathtub calk. If you want to move it from boat to boat use duct seal from the electrical department at the hardware store. Either way secure the wires so they does not get caught on gear. I cover my wiring with duct tape along the floor and up under the gunnel.

Another way to put in bottom of rental boat is to bring plumbers putty along, enough for a "puck" big enough to push the transducer into. Shoots right thru it, and you can align your tducer correctly, vertically and horizontally to get good signal easily. Same advise, don't set up over thick part or over foam core. Peel putty up after using.