This year our trip will take us to our base camp destination of the South Arm of Knife. Our entry is Seagull EP 54. First time to this area. But not to the BW. Most of our group has been going every year for 25+ years.

Our original plan was to drive all day pick up our permit the day before and overnight at the Trails End campground. Then the following morning get our usual early start and be on the water by 0600 camp on Ogish then on the second day make our way to SAK.

A question was brought up last night as to whether we want to forgo the campground and just plunge the same day we get our permit. Thus giving us an extra "day" on the water. Possibly camp that first night on the western part of Seagull or maybe somewhere on Alpine. Then the following day travel the rest of the way to SAK.

Yes Yes Yes I know this is a busy area. The possibility of not getting a campsite is greater the longer in the day you go. There is also the possibility of weather and/or strong winds and big water/waves. This idea was contrived after my question to our group about a plan B if we do not get a reservation for the day we want.

Anyone else ever do this successfully in this area?

Thanks.

I think your plan B could be ok. Depending on the time of year - how busy things are, weather-wind and all - - but there are so many campsite options - you will find one open it just might be a really small one, out of the way or you will spend a lot of time looking for a site. On the brighter side - if you stay on Seagull/Alpine that will give you an edge on sites on SAK by being there earlier in the day withi less distance to travel.
Time wise, it might be a draw - getting up early at the campground and moving quickly or having to find a site, break camp in the morning and get back on the route.
Get your permit early for the day you want and you will be in control of the timetable.

Where are you driving from? What time are you getting to The end of the trail? If you are planning on just staying on Seagull, at best you are going to save two hours. If I were you and arriving in the afternoon I would just stay at Trails end.

One time saver would be have a tent and sleeping pad bag that you could just throw into your vehicle the morning you head out. Not having to pack everything back up will get you moving

quote RainGearRight: "Where are you driving from? What time are you getting to The end of the trail? If you are planning on just staying on Seagull, at best you are going to save two hours. If I were you and arriving in the afternoon I would just stay at Trails end.


One time saver would be have a tent and sleeping pad bag that you could just throw into your vehicle the morning you head out. Not having to pack everything back up will get you moving "

We would be getting to Trails End around 3pm. Planning on the first week of August.

Using a different tent for the campground is something that we have been doing for many years already. But a good reminder for others who camp at campgrounds the night before. Thanks.

Stay at Trails End, very good place to relax after drive, sort gear, prior to heading out. Makes possible a crack-o-dawn departure as EP launch is right there in the campground. I think of it as another day in the BWCA.

butthead

I like to get up there and stay in a campground the night before. I like to enjoy a cold beer or two while going through the gear and planning the next day. I can't help with the time to get to SAK which is what you were asking though.

I'm in the minority. I like entering afternoon of travel day. Get to Ely around 2:00, permit, Zups, and onto ep. Lots of fresh food that night. Get up early next day and get ahead of that days entering groups.

It's easy to get trapped by tradition, doing it the same way as for 25 years, but just being off the same cycle as the majority is worth it, IMH - and minority - O.

I vote for a campground. Relax.

My worst day paddling was from rushing to get an "extra day on the water". I still have the scar to prove it!

I've done it both ways......opting for the "drive and launch" option lately to get another night in the woods. My only concern for your trip would be launching onto Seagull in the afternoon when winds could be greater. I've crossed Seagull twice (east to west), but only on early mornings, and thankfully there was little to no wind.

quote cowdoc: "I've done it both ways......opting for the "drive and launch" option lately to get another night in the woods. My only concern for your trip would be launching onto Seagull in the afternoon when winds could be greater. I've crossed Seagull twice (east to west), but only on early mornings, and thankfully there was little to no wind."

That is our concern as well.

The question is i guess is getting one additional day in the woods worth it. We have paddled big water and waves before, not the most fun but doable. More of a concern for me would be T-storms.

If you arrive at 3 (and that assumes no problems in travel), it will still take at least 2 hours to be ready to hit the water (permit issuance, clothes change, final pack, etc.). And I think that would be optimistic. That puts you on the water at 5ish. The 5ish launch time realistically only gives you an extra 12-14 hours in the BW. In addition, by the first week in August, the days are already getting shorter. How much time do you really have before dark?

Are those few hours worth the chance that you would forget something important, launch into afternoon/evening headwinds, have to travel well into dusk to find a campsite, etc. Unless you pull up to the entry point in your wilderness travel clothes, absolutely packed and ready to launch, I vote for staying in the campground.

Arriving even later due to any number of possible travel issues, could mean that you would have to launch into dusk/dark to save your permit, abort the planned trip for any open permit along the Gunflint the next day or two, or losing the trip altogether.

quote Michwall2: "If you arrive at 3 (and that assumes no problems in travel), it will still take at least 2 hours to be ready to hit the water (permit issuance, clothes change, final pack, etc.). And I think that would be optimistic. That puts you on the water at 5ish. The 5ish launch time realistically only gives you an extra 12-14 hours in the BW. In addition, by the first week in August, the days are already getting shorter. How much time do you really have before dark?


Are those few hours worth the chance that you would forget something important, launch into afternoon/evening headwinds, have to travel well into dusk to find a campsite, etc. Unless you pull up to the entry point in your wilderness travel clothes, absolutely packed and ready to launch, I vote for staying in the campground.


Arriving even later due to any number of possible travel issues, could mean that you would have to launch into dusk/dark to save your permit, abort the planned trip for any open permit along the Gunflint the next day or two, or losing the trip altogether."

All good points.

The night before we drive north we go thru a extensive gear check. We have a excel spreadsheet with everything listed and who is responsible for bringing what.Then the car is packed. Lunches and breakfasts are made for the drive. Canoes are loaded on the trailer.

The 3pm time takes into account securing the permit, fuel/bathroom stops, and bait. Road construction is a crap shoot however. No control over that...The sun sets around 830pm that time of the year. It is a 2.5/3.0 hour paddle/portage into Alpine for our first night. We are not real concerned about the quality of the site for the first nights stay, we just need a place to sleep and hang the food.

Yes, I sound like I'm rationalizing everything. But it all does sound possible to do.

quote billconner: "I'm in the minority. I like entering afternoon of travel day. Get to Ely around 2:00, permit, Zups, and onto ep. Lots of fresh food that night. Get up early next day and get ahead of that days entering groups.


It's easy to get trapped by tradition, doing it the same way as for 25 years, but just being off the same cycle as the majority is worth it, IMH - and minority - O."

This is my system of well but I'll admit that I'm pretty tired by the time I make camp that first day---I definitely sleep well that first night in!

My advice would be to camp, get up early then moved. Anything you think you're gaining by paddling in at 3:00 isn't worth taking a deep breath and making sure you have everything. Frankly, you'll probably be a bit anxious to get on the water at 3:00 or earlier, making it easier to forget something or overlook something, regardless of how many spreadsheets you have (BWCA with spreadsheets..... very organized!!)

On August 15, the sign rises at 6:02, meaning you'll have enough early morning nautical twilight to navigate at 5:30, if not earlier. I once put into Gunflint Lake on a solo trip, making for the Granite River, at 4:45 AM. Barely enough light to navigate, though I knew the lake and route very well, and the weather was clear and quiet. Made it to my campsite by 8:00 AM, then went back to bed!!

Mike in Minneapolis

Many moons ago, we got a late start (1 ish) from Sea Gull. We wound up having to grab the site on Spice Lake. It proved to be a nice home for us. I'm all for extra time on the water but, i wouldn't count on a result like this. If things go bad, it could be REALLY bad. I know if that site hadn't been open, a mutiny Likely would have ensued.

quote airmorse: "

quote Michwall2: "If you arrive at 3 (and that assumes no problems in travel), it will still take at least 2 hours to be ready to hit the water (permit issuance, clothes change, final pack, etc.). And I think that would be optimistic. That puts you on the water at 5ish. The 5ish launch time realistically only gives you an extra 12-14 hours in the BW. In addition, by the first week in August, the days are already getting shorter. How much time do you really have before dark?



Are those few hours worth the chance that you would forget something important, launch into afternoon/evening headwinds, have to travel well into dusk to find a campsite, etc. Unless you pull up to the entry point in your wilderness travel clothes, absolutely packed and ready to launch, I vote for staying in the campground.



Arriving even later due to any number of possible travel issues, could mean that you would have to launch into dusk/dark to save your permit, abort the planned trip for any open permit along the Gunflint the next day or two, or losing the trip altogether."

All good points.


The night before we drive north we go thru a extensive gear check. We have a excel spreadsheet with everything listed and who is responsible for bringing what.Then the car is packed. Lunches and breakfasts are made for the drive. Canoes are loaded on the trailer.


The 3pm time takes into account securing the permit, fuel/bathroom stops, and bait. Road construction is a crap shoot however. No control over that...The sun sets around 830pm that time of the year. It is a 2.5/3.0 hour paddle/portage into Alpine for our first night. We are not real concerned about the quality of the site for the first nights stay, we just need a place to sleep and hang the food.


Yes, I sound like I'm rationalizing everything. But it all does sound possible to do. "

Just FYI, most of Alpine has been burned. There are only a couple of sites that have enough trees left to hang food. I thought you should know since it's your first time to the area. The area you are heading into (Seagull to SAK) is riddled with either burn or blowdown areas. There are campsites with trees to hang food but just as many that do not. You might consider an alternate method of food safety. E.g. We rented a blue barrel from Seagull Outfitters our first time in that area. Worked well enough that I invested in one of my own.

Same day/next day- You sound like you have the organization to pull off the same day entry. Ultimately only you know your group well enough to know whether the reward is worth the risk. Either way, I hope you have a great trip.

Thanks we are aware of the burn area and the conditions of the campsites in the area.

Thanks to all that have responded. We have decided to error on the side of caution and stay at Trails End CG the night before we enter. While our idea we believe is doable for this trip there is the potential for too many things to go wrong then snowball downhill after that.

Thanks again.

We used to drive all day.......17 hrs, leaving from Louisville area around 2:00pm.

We'd arrive up the Gunflint about 7:00am or so. We would pick up our permits, jump in our canoes and the push to our "standard" campsite about 5 hours away. We did this for many , many years.

After a few years, I decided, as the planner that we were not doing that any longer, not at least on my trips. The problem is that the hard push like that would generally make a few people really ,really useless. Around Camp and for 1 or 2 days in the park.

Now, we leave a little later, and get there a little later, and we bunk house up and go in the park the next day.

for me, i'm on vaca, and I want to make the best of it........