I'm coming up in Mid-September, and I am using an outfitter's kevilar canoe. In the "old" days when I went with my dad, we always went in June-August, when wet wading was no big deal, however as it gets toward October should I plan on bringing my knee boots, or would a pair of lightweight hip waders- like a pair of hippies or stocking foot waders (with an old pair of hiking boots) be more appropriate? The route I am taking only has a couple portages, but with day to day operations getting in and out of the canoe....... staying dry and warm is more important. Thoughts?

I've never found the water in sept/oct to be that chilling.....not like nov. I have two sets of my go to hiking boots (Merrel Moab Mids) , one a 1/2 size larger, and if I think it's going to be really cool (early May, late Oct), I wear a pair of Sealskin socks with a light wool over them. Chota Hippies look intriguing, but I wont go as far as other hippers or even Muck boot style footwear. Too clumsy and bulky for me.

I usually go mid-Sept to early Oct. I don't know exactly what to tell you since I don't know exactly what I should do. I started wet footing a few years ago and generally am OK with it. I much prefer the simplicity of it. However, a couple of years ago at the end of Sept/first of Oct, there were some chilly days and cold (20-25) nights, and I had cold feet the last few days. Now I'm not as young as I used to be, circulation's not as good, plus they have me on blood thinners. I think it depends on the weather at the time and your personal comfort level. Since you're not going to be portaging much, you could experiment with wet footing, but take boots just in case if the weather looks cold. In mid-Sept you should be fine wet footing with some Smartwool socks and maybe a good liner sock. You'll want footwear that drains. Water temps mid-Sept are usually around low 60 degrees, I think.

Finally bought some Chota Hippies last year and used them on three trips. They made loading/unloading, landing and launching so much easier and safer.

I wore Salomon Tech Amphibians with them instead of wading boots. These shoes are very light, drain well and have great traction on all surfaces. Wore them and the Hippies on short portages. They were comfortable and didn't diminish movement. Removed Hippies and shoes and changed to regular light hiking boots for longer ones.

Shoes must be one full size larger than your regular shoe size to fit over the water sock portion of the Hippies.

No more wet feet! Highly recommended.

quote gkimball: "Finally bought some Chota Hippies last year and used them on three trips. They made loading/unloading, landing and launching so much easier and safer.


I wore Salomon Tech Amphibians with them instead of wading boots. These shoes are very light, drain well and have great traction on all surfaces. Wore them and the Hippies on short portages. They were comfortable and didn't diminish movement. Removed Hippies and shoes and changed to regular light hiking boots for longer ones.


Shoes must be one full size larger than your regular shoe size to fit over the water sock portion of the Hippies.


No more wet feet! Highly recommended."

I am kinda interested in the Hippies vs. My rubber knee boots. The Hippies have a camo option too....I'm definitely anti-khaki in my wardrobe choices in canoe country- I like to blend in to the land, not stick out like a sore thumb, haha.

Chota Hippies. Love mine and happy with the investment. Although, I've not used the hippies often due to tripping in warmer months. Now am planning for Fall trips and hate having cold wet feet. I feel the cold more now at 66yrs than in 50's.
+ what gkimball wrote.

for the past 10 years( don't laugh), i have followed stu's advice about not wet footing with my prism. i wear gore tex hiking boots, paddle up to shore and get out. my boots stay dry, and markings on my prism are minimal.
if the portages are muddy, wet, or it is raining i have a pair of neo's trekkers i slip on over my boots. works just fine for me.

I have evolved from wet footing in Sept. & May to Chota knee highs and plan to move up to hippies this year. They are especially relevant if you go solo and have to exit/enter some bad portages when the water is low and the landings drop off quickly. They also provide a lot of advantage if you shore fish, especially in the Q which seems to have more doable shorelines than the BW. My paddle partner MacCamper always wears a pair and I think in cooler weather functions better than I do in my knee-highs. It only takes one mis-footing to go over the tops in knee high boots, not just in the lake but in swampy portage conditions.

I purchased a pair of Chota Hippies and Caney Fork boots a few months ago, right after my fall trip. Can't wait to use them this year. I decided on the Hippies because you don't have to roll them all the way up and can use them as shorter below the knee, or above the knee waders if you want. It's hard to stretch knee length up to your thighs however.

The concern I would have is what happens if you capsize? Those puppies will fill up and take you straight to the bottom. If you do take the risk, opt for knee boots that can be kicked off easily.

...and that's sorta what I was thinking with conventional hip boots. With me paddling solo, the last thing I want to do is end up like Luca Brazi "swimmin' with the fishes" because I made the wrong choice, haha.

Hippies are great for staying dry in cold weather. I'm not into wet feet during the shoulder seasons.

quote old_salt: "The concern I would have is what happens if you capsize? Those puppies will fill up and take you straight to the bottom. If you do take the risk, opt for knee boots that can be kicked off easily."

Fill up with what? rocks? Of course not, those boot will fill with water but they will NOT take you to the bottom. How in the world is the water INSIDE the boots going to be heavier than the water outside the boots? After all isn't it all the same water? Your boots will NOT take you to the bottom.

I've seen people wear rubber "Lacrosse" knee boots like I used to wear as a teenager when I went trapping- that style attaches to your belt, and they can be a bit tedious to get on/off....and just by weight alone, they would make it more difficult to tread water if you capsized, hence why I wouldn't choose a boot foot pair like those out there in the BWCA for most applications. Chest waders would be a no-no for sure, even with a wading belt. I also duck hunt, and I am also fussy about water safety- taking a bath on a 20 degree morning ain't no joke, haha. I also took an icy bath checking beaver traps as a teenager.....luckily I only fell in up to my waist, but the air temp outside was hovering around zero....that wasn't fun either, haha. But getting back on topic, the Chota hippies might be the way I'll go depending on the weather conditions. We're dealing with potentially being upper 20's in the morning, and 70 degrees in the afternoon this time of year from what I understand, so I want to be ready:)

quote old_salt: "The concern I would have is what happens if you capsize? Those puppies will fill up and take you straight to the bottom. If you do take the risk, opt for knee boots that can be kicked off easily."

Old wife's tale. How does the water inside a boot weigh more than the water outside?
Boots will make it harder to swim and move underwater but will not pull you down.

butthead

The water in the boots doesn't weigh more, but because it is in the boots or waders attached to you, it becomes additional weight which is also attached to you. Keeping extra weight afloat requires extra flotation. Sorry I failed to include a physics lesson in my previous post.

If you don't believe me, ask the folks who died with their boots on.

I love to wear breathable Hippers, with a good wading boot. They essentially feel like a standard "cargo" style pant but have neoprene booties, usually with about a 3.5 mil thickness to keep your feet warm. I have a variety of wading boots, but for my canoe in cold water use a cleated sole, if you are in slimy water, go with a felt sole, but that is usually a warm water issue.

I feel they give me much more stability than a knee boot and it seems that the friends I trip with always have one or two days when they get to tell me first hand how cold the water is by the new water that just ran over the top of their knee boot.

You can see mine and my brother's here:

quote old_salt: "The water in the boots doesn't weigh more, but because it is in the boots or waders attached to you, it becomes additional weight which is also attached to you. Keeping extra weight afloat requires extra flotation. Sorry I failed to include a physics lesson in my previous post.

If you don't believe me, ask the folks who died with their boots on."

Do the physics! You will find lots of examples from live testers. Old wife's tale it shurely is.

butthead

PS: Older post on boots full of water bh

I will add that wet clothes will make it more difficult to stay afloat.

quote old_salt: "I will add that wet clothes will make it more difficult to stay afloat. "

Wet clothes DO make it harder to maneuver and swim, but you will be afloat wearing a PFD....and I ALWAYS have mine on. I've had no trouble staying afloat with PFD's in the 16lb range of flotation; some of those in the old days wearing jeans and Browning boots and several times in heavy winter clothes like wool shirts and my Chota mukluks. None of those swims were intentional and most were in Fall, Winter, and spring. Even if hip boots fill with water, they won't sink you with your PFD on. The only scenario where I'd worry would be heavy whitewater, as the water is more aerated and doesn't "Float" you as well. I wear my 20 "Something" pound flotation PFD when I paddle where there's some of that.

I've thought about those Hippies since my old Chota Mukluks bit the dust a few years ago. Sounds like a good idea? I already have some old neoprene waders that I've thought of turning into hip boots? I plan to try those in June. I'm thinking it will be an added bonus as a little extra padding for these old knees when I kneel? I DO miss my old Chotas, though!

I was gonna post something about buoyancy and floatation facts but, why bother. Posters will argue myths and assumption until their keyboards wear out. OS let it go and research water displacement/floatation. Riddle me this..... How does a huge STEEL ship full of heavy cargo float on water? For the record I do not have hippies, etc.......

This year I have decided to back to my old knee boots, no more wetfooting for me. I simply refuse to put on those wet cold socks and shoes anymore, I have been wetfooting for about 5 years now and have 3-4 differant types of wet shoes ,all name brand that others have tried and used before, haven't tried the waterproof Chota Hippes though. I know rubber knee boots are clunky, heavy, hot and sweaty, and if/when I go over the top will be damp for awhile, but at least they won't be wet all the time. FRED

quote Huntindave: "

quote old_salt: "The concern I would have is what happens if you capsize? Those puppies will fill up and take you straight to the bottom. If you do take the risk, opt for knee boots that can be kicked off easily."

Fill up with what? rocks? Of course not, those boot will fill with water but they will NOT take you to the bottom. How in the world is the water INSIDE the boots going to be heavier than the water outside the boots? After all isn't it all the same water? Your boots will NOT take you to the bottom."

calm down my friend.

Mid-September is still summer here. I think the hip waders or knee high boots are overkill. I wear the same foot gear as a trip in August - Salomon Techamphibians with merino wool socks for wet footing it with my kevlar canoe, and crocs with dry merino wool socks for hanging in camp.

Chota hippies with portages boots is a good choice however many will opt for knee-high muck boots or similar. It depends on what you are comfortable with.

quote ozarkpaddler: "

quote old_salt: "I will add that wet clothes will make it more difficult to stay afloat. "

Wet clothes DO make it harder to maneuver and swim, but you will be afloat wearing a PFD....and I ALWAYS have mine on. I've had no trouble staying afloat with PFD's in the 16lb range of flotation; some of those in the old days wearing jeans and Browning boots and several times in heavy winter clothes like wool shirts and my Chota mukluks. None of those swims were intentional and most were in Fall, Winter, and spring. Even if hip boots fill with water, they won't sink you with your PFD on. The only scenario where I'd worry would be heavy whitewater, as the water is more aerated and doesn't "Float" you as well. I wear my 20 "Something" pound flotation PFD when I paddle where there's some of that.


I've thought about those Hippies since my old Chota Mukluks bit the dust a few years ago. Sounds like a good idea? I already have some old neoprene waders that I've thought of turning into hip boots? I plan to try those in June. I'm thinking it will be an added bonus as a little extra padding for these old knees when I kneel? I DO miss my old Chotas, though!
"

20+ pounds of flotation, been there done that. Tried out the vest pictured in 7 ft. of water dressed like this, boots and all. Kokatat SeaO2, 7pounds foam flotation, and pulled the Inflator adding 18 more pounds. Whew, gets ya to the surface fast!

butthead

quote bwcasolo: "

quote Huntindave: "

quote old_salt: "The concern I would have is what happens if you capsize? Those puppies will fill up and take you straight to the bottom. If you do take the risk, opt for knee boots that can be kicked off easily."

Fill up with what? rocks? Of course not, those boot will fill with water but they will NOT take you to the bottom. How in the world is the water INSIDE the boots going to be heavier than the water outside the boots? After all isn't it all the same water? Your boots will NOT take you to the bottom."

calm down my friend."

Believe it or not, but waders/hipboots can in certain instances help you float (if you fall the right way and act quickly). If your butt is down farther in the water and your knees and feet stay elevated, the air trapped in the waders will make you more buoyant. Now this all depends if you fall in butt first and immediately put your feet in the air. Not likely to happen, but possible.

I participated in a water rescue class in AK last may.
The instructers asked us if we wanted to do it with our clothes on as opposed to swim trunks. I opted to keep my clothes on, and boy was it hard to swim that way and took way more energy.
In Alaska I wear Muck knee/Boots, but take them off when crossing sketchy water uncase I go in.
You may be just as buoyant with knee or hip boots on, but your ability to swim with them on is nearly impossible.
I always wear a good fitting life jacket, but if I am unable to swim to shore I will die from hypothermia in AK.

Try swimming with your clothes and jacket on as opposed to swim trunks, and you will have your question answered.