Years ago at a social gathering a urologist, hearing about my upcoming BWCA trip, offered to send a catheter with me, and to show me how to insert it myself. ????????? "Well, what if you get a blockage and can't pee?" Well, that's one offer still on the table I haven't availed myself of. But would be interested, for example, how many take in prescription antibiotics "just in case"? You see, two days after coming out of our last trip, one of the guys got a random infection with a raging fever that left him almost too weak to walk. Yikes, I don't know what we would have done if it had hit him when we were waaayyyy in there. 4 years ago I slashed my wrist in the WCPP, no SAT phone, but it went in at a shallow angle and we could bind it up and wait for the plane which was due the next day. Been either victim or spectator on some three buried hook incidents. etc. etc.

So what is a judicious amount of prevention/first aid to take along? And if some of you take in catheters, oh, well LOL Stories welcome, no need for pix (catheter)

Lately I have been bringing in an antibiotic prescription. Hooks are a huge potential liability and preventative measures are the best medicine imo. However I also bring in cutters capable of cutting a big hook.

I went with one guy who brought an epi pen in case of allergic reactions to bee stings etc.

I bring quick clot and sutures for extreme emergency only. The rest is a basic first aid kit.

Back when we used to go we had a great doctor who was very supportive of our wilderness adventures. He was willing to give me a ten-day broad-spectrum antibiotic RX for "just in case" and also a small RX for flexiril (muscle relaxer) because of my spinal arthritis and bulging disc that often resulted in nerve pain down my leg if I twisted just the wrong way. He knew us and knew that we wouldn't abuse medications. As the years went by, sometimes had a few pain pills also.

He is retired now, and we no longer go on trips because of some more serious and severe conditions, so don't know if we could still arrange for that or not. But it was a relief to have them, and though rarely used, if needed they were good to have.

In addition to basic first aid kit, I bring along ibuprofen, tylenol, prednisone and an antibiotic such as amoxicillin. Just in case....

How do you get an antiboitic prescription before a trip? Go in to the dr. / call the dr. and tell them you are going on a wilderness trip and ask for a "just in case" prescription?

I am much more safety orientated than years past. I bring a simple emergency kit that includes: Tourniquet, Israeli bandage, quick clot, super glue, sutures, and basic pain relievers, and other simple medications. kit only weighs about 2 pounds and can take care of most field type injuries.

Basic first aid skills are important. Also very important to know medical situations of those you are with. Just lost a very good friend because he left his epi pen at his car. His son couldn't get him from the island they were camping on back to the car in time after a bee sting. Son had just graduated from high school.
If you are getting a prescription for anything, you can't use it on someone else unless specified... I can't see that happening unless you had advanced training and under a health director of some kind. Such as I'm a first responder. We operate under a health director who certifies us to do or administer specific things. Be careful how you give advice with things like that.

Prevention is first, then basic stuff like lots of bandages, antibiotic ointment, OTC pain relievers, burn and blister bandages and medications, basic supplies.

I'd like to carry a stronger pain reliever, but can't get an RX for one - doctors are very reluctant these days to give one for obvious (and very good) reasons.

Mine did give me an antibiotic, which I think is good to have along, but I had not considered the liability of giving it to others that nctry mentioned.

I also carry my own RX drugs, but anyone with me would need to take theirs.

I also carry the quick clot.

There is also the PLB for dire emergencies.

It's hard to determine what is a good balance.

I used to bring two types of antibiotics with when I used to to long canoe trips in the Far North--4 to 6 weeks on the water in very remote areas. Being a Wilderness First Responder was also useful.

I took wilderness first aid so our first aid kit is big. One odd thing I bring is liquid steroids for our youngest. He sometimes gets croup and when it hits he can't breath. Our doctor gave us this because if he got croup in the BWCA it would take to long to get him to help.

quote ducks: "How do you get an antiboitic prescription before a trip? Go in to the dr. / call the dr. and tell them you are going on a wilderness trip and ask for a "just in case" prescription?"

Ducks I had my dentist cut me an antibiotic scrip and it was filled free at a Publix. I would be very careful however about the use of antibiotics. Antibiotics are used way to freely IMO. They kill all the good bacteria in your gut and needs be reestablished correctly. Way to easy with the typical American diet to establish bad bacteria which can overproduce very quickly and crowd the good bacteria out. Then the bad stuff goes on to wreak your health producing a wide malady of problems which can be very difficult to diagnose.

I bring a bright orange waterproof first aid box (looks like an ammo box). I have every kind of pain reliever, stomach medicine, allergy meds, burn ointment, poison ivy treatment, bandages, clotting agents, tournequet, Israeli bandage, splint. Also have a dental first aid kit, fish hook remover, tick remover, a basic first aid manual and a Spot. Also, due to having diabetics, I bring glucose packs.

Antibiotics, but the quick clot is a great idea and something I'll add.

Basic first aid, neosporin, pain killers and Advil.

Besides ibuprofen,Tylenol, aspirin, benedryl, Imodium,and who knows what else is in my yet barely used (knock on wood) first aid kit, I do bring antibiotics enough for a few days. I asked my dr for it. I also bring a stronger painkiller for serious injuries, but they were leftover from surgery.

Does anyone carry an epipen as a precaution -someone with no previous problems? My brother had a severe reaction with no previous problems, which landed him in the hospital, so I have thought about it. I don't know if any doctors would give a Rx's for one, but I was wondering how many bring one.

I worry some about the EpiPen thing, but given the price and fact I haven't had a reaction . . .

I worry some about the EpiPen thing, but given the price and fact I haven't had a reaction . . . I just bring Benadryl. There is always the chance I could have a severe reaction even though I never have before . . .

I also have Immodium, but no stool softener (not normally a problem for me and my meals have lots of fiber), dental stuff, tick remover, etc.

I may see about a RX for Doxycycline for ticks . . .

quote Canoearoo: "I took wilderness first aid so our first aid kit is big. One odd thing I bring is liquid steroids for our youngest. He sometimes gets croup and when it hits he can't breath. Our doctor gave us this because if he got croup in the BWCA it would take to long to get him to help. "

One thing I thought was interesting about the wilderness first responder is how little they had you using for different scenarios. The focus was on using what typically you'd have available or less. Even an epi pen used on someone besides you and family your best to let them do the honors. One thing to evaluate is the items you can multipurpose. Be careful about drugs and self evaluating illnesses. Sometimes you can do more damage giving the wrong stuff. I used to take celebrex for years. While on a trip in Quetico I tore both rotator cuff muscles. I was given ibuprofen. Worked great until I cut a finger. My canoe looked like a war zone the bleeding. It bled through everything I did to it. I got home and had a random letter from my doctor. Don't take celebrex with Ibuprofen. How timely. Be careful about doing things that are beyond your abilities. If you do something that causes harm it could bite you. As a wilderness or local first responder we work under a health director of sorts. We could or may not do certain things. Highly recommend the wilderness first responder class at outward bound school in Ely. Usually in may. Costly, but fun and very interactive. It was a solid five days if I recall. Stayed right there in a bunk house and well fed.

quote ducks: "How do you get an antiboitic prescription before a trip? Go in to the dr. / call the dr. and tell them you are going on a wilderness trip and ask for a "just in case" prescription?"

Short answer is yes. Been on meds for arthritis and chronic asthma for years....just tell the doc the possible issues that may occur (poison ivy, cuts, etc) and that you may be a couple days from the car....the Rx is just precautionary....

Whether you carry it or not, how many have had the occasion to use quick clot on a canoe trip?

quote billconner: "Whether you carry it or not, how many have had the occasion to use quick clot on a canoe trip?"

I carry a pack every trip for just in case. We saw and split a lot of wood for our fires because we cook meals on the grate. Potential for injury is higher than at home. Every year I read about someone who took an axe to the leg or a nasty cut when a fillet knife slips. A Quik clot and a compression bandage will stop a nasty cut until I can reach medical help.

quote Savage Voyageur: "

quote billconner: "Whether you carry it or not, how many have had the occasion to use quick clot on a canoe trip?"

I carry a pack every trip for just in case. We saw and split a lot of wood for our fires because we cook meals on the grate. Potential for injury is higher than at home. Every year I read about someone who took an axe to the leg or a nasty cut when a fillet knife slips. A Quik clot and a compression bandage will stop a nasty cut until I can reach medical help. "

We take quik clot and hope to never have to use it, similar to the life vest and spare paddle.

quote billconner: "Whether you carry it or not, how many have had the occasion to use quick clot on a canoe trip?"

I have used superglue to close up cuts up there. Never used quick clot before.

I have never used quick clot.

With that disclaimer aside. I would be very hesitant to just slap some quick clot on a cut. I have read that older versions produced intense heat that can damage adjacent tissue (side anatomy lesson: nerves tend to run along arteries...if you didn't cut the nerve you would hate to damage it from the heat of quick clot.) Newer versions are supposedly less thermogenic. Tourniquets have the advantage of not causing chemical or thermal damage to the wound (but yes, cause ischemic damage...all depends on how bad the wound and how fast the evacuation). If it is a matter of saving a life or limb, use the quick clot.

On to antibiotics. They are overused. "I was on my vacation and I didn't want to be sick, so I took the antibiotic you gave me doc."......wrong answer. You just made it more likely that you would have some problem on your vacation or in the future from the antibiotic. "I had such and such constellation of symptoms of the correct duration or that specific situation we discussed so I took my antibiotics as you prescribed." ..... correct answer. The likelihood that you are going to get an antibiotic for your trip is proportional to your ability to understand, demonstrate understanding and actually follow directions. Being a nice person also doesn't hurt nor does actually having a professional relationship with your doctor.

For those wondering about Quik Clot. It was designed to be used for battlefield wounds. I keep a pouch of this in my Range bag for such an emergency. It is not for small cuts or punctures. If you have to use this product you NEED to seek a Doctor ASAP. Every so often I read about someone in the BWCA taking an axe to the leg and needs to be evacuated out. You can pretty much think of this as the next thing after a tourniquet, it’s made for serious bad stuff. You also need to be made aware that it uses the chemicals inside to burn the wound closed. I have read that surgeons hate to work on people that have used this stuff because it eats the gloves. You need to also inform medical staff you used this product on someone.

Having 39 yrs of being a professional Paramedic on an ambulance and also having worked in an Emergency Room for 15 yrs I can tell you that quick clot stuff or a tourniquet arenot really needed that often. Most wounds you can get the bleeding to stop with simple direct pressure on the cut for 5 -10 minutes. During that time do not peek to see if the bleeding has stopped. In all of my years I have used a tourniquet less than 5 times. Also I’ve had to clean some wounds out with quick clot in it. It wasn’t fun for the patient to have it scrubbed out.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is an Ace or elastic bandage for sprains and strains. Sprains and strains are one of the top 4 backcountry injuries. The others being blisters, burns and simple lacerations.

A few years ago I did ask my doctor and she strongly recommended against carrying it. I dont know if acceptance has changed. It seems to slowly be gaining acceptance by emergency service.

I wonder since i only cook on a stove and dont carry an ax nor hatchet, if that affects the choice.

I'd caution against the indiscriminate use of abx (antibiotics) in the field... if you use them when they aren't warranted, you can develop antibiotic-resistant infections... Plus certain abx are completely useless against certain types of bacteria and you might be causing more harm than good...

Just food for thought.

I think the real point here is training. take what you are trained to use and are willing to carry. I can use a defibrillator, but am not carrying it!!!

For those who are trained, instead of an epi pen I take a vial of epinephrine, a filter needle, a second needle and syringe. This gives me 3 epi shots, and yes, I would have to reuse the IM needle, but I figure it is going to be on the same person. It is a whole lot less expensive than an epipen, triple the dose and less in size and weight.

Alternatives to the Epi-pen are available for around $50 ($110 for a two-pack at CVS). Epinephrine isn't a permanent fix, though - it's designed to mitigate symptoms temporarily to give the patient time to get to the hospital. You're still going to need to evacuate pronto.

I like to take a bottle of Afrin or similar nasal decongestant spray. If you have a minor-to-moderate cut that won't stop bleeding, you can spray it in the wound and it will constrict the capillaries near the surface and help control bleeding. Obviously, it won't have that effect on a major artery wound. I wouldn't recommend using it for actual sinus congestion, though. The more you use it, the more you need it - it causes more severe congestion when it wears off. It's an addictive cycle. I was addicted to it and it was a bitch to kick. My sinuses still aren't right 20 years later.

Stuff to treat feet - I learned my lesson after wearing holes in my heels on the first day of a 6 day mountain climbing trip - moleskin/Neosporin/duct tape are necessities.

quote BuckFlicks: "I like to take a bottle of Afrin ...."

I read that and my eyes started to roll and I was thinking. "Oh no, do I have to go and post the pitfalls of Afrin??" and then I kept reading and you were right on!!!! Well done!

Yeah, I know exactly what BuckFlicks is talking about too . . . :)

quote nctry: "

quote Canoearoo: "I took wilderness first aid so our first aid kit is big. One odd thing I bring is liquid steroids for our youngest. He sometimes gets croup and when it hits he can't breath. Our doctor gave us this because if he got croup in the BWCA it would take to long to get him to help. "

One thing I thought was interesting about the wilderness first responder is how little they had you using for different scenarios. The focus was on using what typically you'd have available or less. Even an epi pen used on someone besides you and family your best to let them do the honors. One thing to evaluate is the items you can multipurpose. Be careful about drugs and self evaluating illnesses. Sometimes you can do more damage giving the wrong stuff. I used to take celebrex for years. While on a trip in Quetico I tore both rotator cuff muscles. I was given ibuprofen. Worked great until I cut a finger. My canoe looked like a war zone the bleeding. It bled through everything I did to it. I got home and had a random letter from my doctor. Don't take celebrex with Ibuprofen. How timely. Be careful about doing things that are beyond your abilities. If you do something that causes harm it could bite you. As a wilderness or local first responder we work under a health director of sorts. We could or may not do certain things. Highly recommend the wilderness first responder class at outward bound school in Ely. Usually in may. Costly, but fun and very interactive. It was a solid five days if I recall. Stayed right there in a bunk house and well fed."

Also WFR trained and I agree. There are some things people need to be very careful with, especially med's. Meds can instigate a whole host of other serious problems.

My training was strongly focused on using what was generally available in an "average" back country first aid kit and improvising everything else. It's pretty amazing what you can do with an old t-shirt, a bit of duct tape, and the stiff brim of a baseball cap.

That being said, I do carry what some might consider a well stocked first aid kit that includes all the usual stuff, plus a sam splint, eye dressings, burn dressings, sutures, quick clot, glucose, CPR breathing barrier, space blanket, and yes, an epipen. You'll find very few other meds besides OTC comfort stuff for headaches, allergies and a small roll of tums in there.

I am allergic to bee stings and the pen is my own. But, if I were to run across someone out in the woods in full-on severe anaphylactic shock from a bee sting, or food allergy, I would probably administer it to them... if they couldn't do it themselves. It would likely be too late by then, though. That's just me personally, and I would never advise anyone else to do the same. Folks need to know that an Epipen is not meant to be a cure, it can simply buy precious time for EMS to respond. Epinephrine needs to be administered pretty early for it to have a highly positive effect on allergic shock, and it can actually cause more severe problems. Like a fast irregular heartbeat, and can even cause the heart to stop altogether. Epipens are supposed to be carried by people with documented severe allergic reactions who are educated in their use. IMO these are handed out by the medical profession way too easily, and they do a poor job of educating people on their use. Deciding to use one, or not use one, is really kind of a gamble if you don't know when to use it, or what to expect from it. To anyone considering adding one to your kit, please educate yourself on the symptoms of anaphylxis, and what to expect from the use of Epinephrine BEFORE you decide you need to use it.

For what it's worth, I purchased a Sawyer Extractor Pump a couple of years ago that also rides in my kit. I'd never used it until I was stung earlier this summer and had an opportunity to try it on myself. It seemed to work pretty well. I can't say that it would always work, and I'd never rely on it 100%, but this time I had a very minimal reaction to the sting after using the extractor alone. Localized swelling, and "normal" discomfort for a few days afterwards, but no sign of anaphylaxis. I've previously experienced hard, fast glandular swelling requiring immediate EMS from past bee stings. My allergy level is well documented.

IMO wilderness FA is more about stabilization, evaluating the scene and eliminating any further immediate threat to folks with injuries more serious than cuts, scrapes and bruises. Like shock, hypothermia, heat stroke, dehydration, altitude sickness, broken bones, head, neck and back injuries, heart attack and stroke. Then determining if there is a need for immediate emergency evacuation, or if the victim can be stabilized and is able to survive a slower controlled evacuation, how an evacuation will be implemented and carried out. It's not at all about "curing" a problem so the trip can go on as planned.

Don't forget .... Without argument, prevention is by far the BEST first aid.

Other than basic first aid, i have anticeptic swabs, smelling salts, penicilian, an epi pen (havent been stung in 30 years but you never know) and also have a stronger pain prescription that I take just in case needed.

quote barehook: "Years ago at a social gathering a urologist, hearing about my upcoming BWCA trip, offered to send a catheter with me, and to show me how to insert it myself. ????????? "Well, what if you get a blockage and can't pee?" Well, that's one offer still on the table I haven't availed myself of. But would be interested, for example, how many take in prescription antibiotics "just in case"? You see, two days after coming out of our last trip, one of the guys got a random infection with a raging fever that left him almost too weak to walk. Yikes, I don't know what we would have done if it had hit him when we were waaayyyy in there. 4 years ago I slashed my wrist in the WCPP, no SAT phone, but it went in at a shallow angle and we could bind it up and wait for the plane which was due the next day. Been either victim or spectator on some three buried hook incidents. etc. etc.

So what is a judicious amount of prevention/first aid to take along? And if some of you take in catheters, oh, well LOL Stories welcome, no need for pix (catheter)"

Prescription antibiotics, and some narcotic if necessary.

I also take a pretty hefty first aid kit, as well as 2 or 3 epi pens....

Lots of other stuff, including sam splint, etc, etc, etc. YOU can never be too prepared , especially when 50 miles and 2 days of portaging from the nearest rescue.....

Later,

Geo

I carry a fairly basic FAK, though mine always includes a full roll of athletic tape.