I'm looking for a conversation about Quetico and what might be keeping folks from visiting that park vs. going to the BWCA every trip.

I see folks complaining (or at least commenting) on the fact that the BWCA has limited permits available. We've also seen the posts at permit time (January?) where people get online five minutes into the permitting period and the permits were already gone for the area they wanted to go.

Have you or your group ever considered a trip to Quetico? And if so, have you considered the northern entry points where you would cross the border at International Falls and drive east to the park?

You could go online TODAY to make a reservation and find about 95% of the northern entry point dates open and available. My buddy and I just got back from Quetico last week after seven days in the park. We entered in the north near Atikokan. We saw SIX canoes, none of them closer to us than probably a half mile. We went four days without seeing anyone at all. It was like my buddy and I were the only people on earth. And the fishing was phenomenal!

The BWCA and Quetico are both about one million acres in size. The BWCA sees about 160,000 people per year. Quetico sees maybe 15,000 per year.

What are the reasons that you haven't gone to Quetico, especially through the northern entry points?

~ We've always gone to the BWCA and don't want to change?
~ No passport?
~ Cost?
~ Farther drive?
~ No latrine boxes (don't want to dig a hole)?
~ Unsure of where to go?
~ Unsure of the process of making a reservation?
~ No live bait allowed for fishing?
~ Something else?

There are a few different rules (nothing major) and the cost is different than the BW, but I believe the value far exceeds the cost difference.

What information would help you make the decision to go to Quetico? I'm wondering if a good conversation might encourage a few more people to take the next step try a trip to Quetico. This board has many veteran Quetico paddlers on it, and I'm proud to have 30+ trips under my belt myself. Here is your chance to have a question & answer time to discuss the possibilities. I guarantee that you'll find Quetico an amazing place for a canoe trip!

For me the drive is a big part. I live in Duluth so I am a couple hours from most entry points. The Quetico has interested me before though and the other reasons I haven't is I still haven't got a passport even though I really need one soon. And then the two main ones outside of driving are unsure of where to go and unsure of the process of making a reservation.

Since my post was deleted, I guess humor wasn't allowed. Being the wilderness user I am (and user of Quetico and much wilder areas), I've always questioned why some users want more people to use an area so as to turn the "underused" area into an "overused" area. It's a rhetorical question, so I don't expect an answer.

Some info about getting a passport these days. From my wife's experience, the usual lead time this year is somewhere around 5 months, as they are really backed up. I think you may be able to pay an extra fee to put a rush on things though.

Never been to Quetico, and probably never will at my age. Don't like the fees and their whole permitting process from what I've read about. Too complicated for me.

Tom

Adding to my comment. I see it is just under a 5 hour drive for me if I go through Thunder Bay which isn't that bad especially if I stop at a family members house in Grand Marais.

But some other things that make me hesitant.

The paperwork I need. I would need a permit I am sure, Canadian fishing license I am guessing, something about RABC I think, passport and maybe other stuff?

I can't find a decent map outside of p@ddle planner's and I am not liking the look of that map. Sorry if who made it is here.

Gear: I feel I would have to update my gear. I would need a light tarp, better rain gear, better sleeping bag and mat, almost everything I think. For the bwca if I am becoming miserable I would just leave as its a short drive home and return another day. I almost feel like the Quetico would be something I would have to plan out more.

And last is familiarity. The bwca I pick a lake and I can just drive there without thinking of how to get there. I have just done so many trips and its almost like 2nd nature going up there.

MReid: "Since my post was deleted, I guess humor wasn't allowed. Being the wilderness user I am (and user of Quetico and much wilder areas), I've always questioned why some users want more people to use an area so as to turn the "underused" area into an "overused" area. It's a rhetorical question, so I don't expect an answer."

I think the idea is that the Quetico is so underused that it could stand to be used a little more especially since the Bwca is so overused. And if it helps some people find peace in life being connected to nature then idk I guess I am always for that type of thing. I think it is missing in a lot of peoples lives.

x2jmorris:
I think the idea is that the Quetico is so underused that it could stand to be used a little more especially since the Bwca is so overused. And if it helps some people find peace in life being connected to nature then idk I guess I am always for that type of thing. I think it is missing in a lot of peoples lives. "

This is probably the wrong thread to discuss, but briefly I believe there is no such thing as an underused wild area--it just means it's wilder. Wildness is an attribute that is easily degraded and rarely enhanced. That's why I go to Quetico instead of BWCA, and that's why I'm headed to Northwest Territories and Nunavut in a week.

Quetico and Jean lakes last week looked like the BWCA. Almost every camp site filled and the parking lot was overflowing upon my departure.

I've always viewed it as more logistically time-consuming. If you're traveling relatively far (I'm in Minneapolis), can you make a trip to Quetico with just 4-5 total days, including driving? My wife and I make an annual longer BWCA trip with our two young boys, 5 and 7. Will probably look seriously at Quetico in 2024; they would get a kick out of the remoteness and a tow, and would have some experience/confidence under their belts. I also go 1-2 other times per year with just friends, but those escapes are usually just 4 days, maybe 5. BWCA always seems to make more sense on that kind of timeline, but I'd love to be shown otherwise.

While I've done several Quetico trips, only two were via northern entry. My drive was to the Ely area each other trip, so where's the extra drive time that's so often mentioned? I'm also curious about why one would need different equipment--the rocks are the same hardness, so no difference in sleeping pads needed, the weather is the same, so rain gear, sleeping bag ratings, need for a rain fly, etc, are no different. We'll paddle Quetico as long as our bodies let us.

TZ

Paperwork and cost.

For me it has been predominantly laziness and hesitancy about the time-consuming process for a permit. The BWCA is just familiar and relatively easy to get to.

My complaints about the BWCA, most related to crowding and noise, would be much less in Q. As you and I have discussed on several occasions, Pete, it's a place I should go and I am looking forward to going. My wife retires in January and with me being self-employed, we will have much more time to accommodate the extended drive (even from Minneapolis) to get into the Q. Your presentation at Canoecopia was very informative and took much of the mystique out of the process. Like most people, I am more comfortable with the familiar. While the landscape of Q may be the same, mostly, as the BWCA, the intangible differences (like it being in a different country, different ways of doing things in the park, that sort of thing) are also what have held me back.

In 2024, we are planning a trip to Quetico. We will begin the process in December. We will also secure a BWCA permit for the same time in case the Canada paperwork doesn't go through or otherwise gets hosed up. I can always cancel the BWCA permit.

Mike

Tradition - I still have plenty to see in the bwca, and I luckily haven't had any horrible crowding experiences, so I haven't felt compelled to do anything differently other than just out of curiosity.

Cost - the per day cost always dampens my curiosity about going to Quetico.

Latrines - I don't mind digging a hole, but I've heard horror stories about tp and worse being scattered about at the campsites.

I will definitely get to Quetico one of these days.

TrailZen: "While I've done several Quetico trips, only two were via northern entry. My drive was to the Ely area each other trip, so where's the extra drive time that's so often mentioned? I'm also curious about why one would need different equipment--the rocks are the same hardness, so no difference in sleeping pads needed, the weather is the same, so rain gear, sleeping bag ratings, need for a rain fly, etc, are no different. We'll paddle Quetico as long as our bodies let us.


TZ"

For the gear or just feels like quetico is a bigger trip. I use the menards tarp, sleeping bags don't compress small, sleeping pads don't compress small, just normal Northface rain gear. Idk I guess it feels I should have better stuff to do quetico. I could be wrong... I've never done it ;)

Also the Ely entry would require a tow correct? More planning and more money.

I come from California and do one trip a year. The effort to do a trip is so big I may as well go to Quetico and enjoy more fish and fewer people. I have gone to Quetico 12 times but have never gone to BW. If I was coming from the twin cities and going for four or five days I would go to BW. Much easier for a short trip.

I will also say the Canadians take really good care of their fish. No bait, barbless hooks and conservative limits. I like that.

x2jmorris: "

TrailZen: "While I've done several Quetico trips, only two were via northern entry. My drive was to the Ely area each other trip, so where's the extra drive time that's so often mentioned? I'm also curious about why one would need different equipment--the rocks are the same hardness, so no difference in sleeping pads needed, the weather is the same, so rain gear, sleeping bag ratings, need for a rain fly, etc, are no different. We'll paddle Quetico as long as our bodies let us.

TZ"

For the gear or just feels like quetico is a bigger trip. I use the menards tarp, sleeping bags don't compress small, sleeping pads don't compress small, just normal Northface rain gear. Idk I guess it feels I should have better stuff to do quetico. I could be wrong... I've never done it ;)

Also the Ely entry would require a tow correct? More planning and more money."

When we accessed Quetico via Ely, we paddled to Prairie Portage from Moose Lake's public parking. After two days in the car (1250 miles or so) paddling was a welcome change of pace. In 20+ trips we've gotten one tow--that was tied to a fly-in to Lac la Croix. Yes, I can see some lighter gear might be needed if you're portaging more, but if it works in the BWCA, it'll work the same in Quetico.

TZ

Non-issues:
passports, lack of latrines, gear

Issues:
extra paperwork, extra cost, extra driving

I have no trouble finding off the beaten track areas of the BWCA, so I have no complaints about overcrowding. I just did an 80 mile solo route and only once did I have to wait at a portage and never crossed paths with anyone on the 52 portages I did. I still have lots of areas I am enjoying discovering and some areas that I really enjoy returning to or combining in different ways. If I did Quetico, I would be more likely to do it from the south to avoid the extra driving. If I am going to drive farther, I would be more likely to visit Wabakimi (which we are considering for next summer).

Count me among the people who wonder why anyone would want MORE folks invading their favorite piece of quiet wilderness. The idea really boggles the mind, to me. But different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes.

For me the main reason I've never gone to Quetico is I dislike driving, and it's a longer drive (at least to the northern entries you're referring to). Simple as that.

Great question, makes me think hard about my decisions to repeatedly choose the BWCA over Quetico. I have been to Canada 4 times, but never to Quetico.

The drive is a factor. Traveling from central Missouri we can make it to Ely in one long day and drive back in one long day if the group decides to maximize time on the water. While I am still working full time I only have one week a year to give to the BWCA, pushing on to Quetico would tip the scales in favor of 4 total travel days. That would cut the time canoeing/camping down to 5 days 4 nights versus the 7 days 6 nights I typically take in the BWCA.

I have took some true wilderness trips. If I am honest with myself I really like the improved fire grates, already cleared tent sites, and that ever so essential path at the back of the campsite leading through the woods.

I know what it takes to avoid crowds in the BWCA and still have many areas that I want to see and explore and several I want to see again. I am planning on visiting Quetico and several of the other parks in Canada in my early retirement when I can take a longer trip, enjoy a leisurely ride to and from, and still have ample time to spend canoeing/camping.

Cost and the drive. I'd have to update my passport, get a fishing license, pay for the permit, drive an extra 4 hours or so, and likely spend an extra night away from home due to the driving time. Combined, it's a lot more hassle when we have a lot of the boundary waters left to explore, so I just don't see any benefit. Quetico just doesn't provide anything unique or special to justify going around the boundary waters and paying extra for.

Unsure of the process, where to go, drive distance. My husband drives into Canada every June, for a fly in fishing trip. So available vacation time is also an issue.

For me I still go to the but the biggest hassle is expense.

I am bringing my family of 4 plus an additional child, so 5 total. Only could get away for 3 nights, 4 days. My cost is roughly $200…In the BWCAW this is approximately $60. If I wanted to do a week you are looking at $400 vs. $60. That’s almost a 700% increase in price. If you want to go yourself it’s not bad but try paying for a family…

Logistics longer drive, more prep…my life is busy…it’s an extra complication.

I guess I am doing it next week, but I understand the hesitation.

T

timatkn: "For me I still go to the but the biggest hassle is expense.

I am bringing my family of 4 plus an additional child, so 5 total. Only could get away for 3 nights, 4 days. My cost is roughly $200…In the BWCAW this is approximately $60. If I wanted to do a week you are looking at $400 vs. $60. That’s almost a 700% increase in price. If you want to go yourself it’s not bad but try paying for a family…

Logistics longer drive, more prep…my life is busy…it’s an extra complication.

I guess I am doing it next week, but I understand the hesitation.

T "

I did not know it was that much! Yeah 50 dollars or so jumping to 400 is bit much on top of all the other parts like drive and paperwork.

To me Quetico was not that much different to BWCA considering the cost difference. I prefer to spend that money on places that truly get me out there.

Dustytrail: the price isn’t much difference…unless ya do the math LOL

I get what you are saying. For a single person for what I think is a superior experience…I don’t think the price is enough of s difference to matter (for me)…but when you are talking about doing youth groups or families the price point exponentially goes up.

I am still going to Quetico next week. But my example is to show there is a major reason many balk when they start to plan.

T

I can see the $ being a major factor.

Our permit fee for 3 people, 9 nights in the Q was $590 CAD, which is about $450 USD.

Plus some credit cards are going to charge additional fees since it's international/foreign currency.

If we had gone to the BWCA, it would have been $54.

This is an excellent conversation. Thank you all for your posts.

I want to clarify one thing about the “paperwork” requirement. Those of you who have mentioned it may be referring to the need of an RABC permit for entering through Prairie Portage or Cache Bay. Yes, that’s a process that requires extra paperwork and submitting online (along with the approximately $25 fee), but for Lac la Croix and the three northern entry points, the RABC permit is not needed.

You acquire a camping permit online just as easily as you do a permit for the BWCA, then present your passport at the highway border crossing (or the LLC customs station). No extra paperwork is required.

$$$$$$$

I would love to go to the Q. I already drive 14 hours to get the BWCA. A few more wouldn't hurt.
I have all the gear but would need a place to rent a canoe as I don't own a portage worthy canoe. LOL

I would love the minimalist camping. No amenities needed for me.

I only go once a year so the added expense is not a factor.

My only problem is planning, spending the money, driving a very long distance and then getting turned away at the border because of a dumb mistake I made involving alcohol and a car 12 years ago which is considered a felony in Canada and makes it illegal for entry.

I have tried the route of becoming admissible but the costs and the excruciating process makes it not even worth it.

Ii thought about applying for a RABC and head north out of Crooked Lake but in the app it asks about criminal charges and you do not want to lie about anything on something like this so I guess for now I'm stuck in the BWCA.
My fault.

I went to Quetico a few years ago. It was definitely nice and made me feel like I was further "out there". I loved it, and hope to go back someday. However, I have only been canoe tripping for 10 years so there is a ton of undiscovered BWCA territory for me. Since my primary goal on a trip is to see what is around the next corner, I can scratch that itch on the MN side. Crowds have rarely been an issue for me since I travel later in the season.

Cost and extra driving time if heading to north entry points. Longer portages are easily found and not recommended for me anymore. While BWCA is always a medical risk, my odds are better there for that need than the Q.

My young grandkids are just happy to go at all and the added daily cost for each is not worth for going to the Q.

Jackfish, some of the extra paperwork (once again this is coming from a person who goes to the Q more than a 3 to 1 ratio than the BWCAW) people don't like getting a passport. A lot of Americans don't have a passport, to get one just for canoeing is an added expense and effort.

None of these things are hard...it's just a lot of little things and I think breaking the seal to get going is hard. That's why I think this is a good post to start!

Some states such as MN you don't need a passport just using your enhanced DL (I think that is the name) is good enough so that can reduce a roadblock too.

T

I've been seriously considering a trip to the Q for the last two years. I would have gone this year but my passport expired and I'm waiting on a new one.

I also feel like others have said that I really don't have the issues folks complain about in the BWCA. I go at times of the year that are a little less busy, and while I don't enjoy portaging, I don't mind it either. It seems like the number of people you see drops by a factor of 10 or more for each portage you do. Case in point, this year Little Indian Sioux north entry in late May. Upper Pauness was packed. One portage into lower, then another into shell and nobody to be seen.

Maps is another one. I ordered the Crismar overview map, which helps, but there just isn't as good of maps available for the Q. Are there any with lake depths? I've not been able to find any.

Lots of extra squeeze with very little extra juice. more money and time to get there, not to mention the extra hoops and documentation needed to cross the border.

The Q isn't "that" much different than the BW, at least not enough in my mind to justify the significant extra cost, border crossing and time associated with a trip to the Q. I'd rather save that money and get what, in my eyes, is a pretty comparable trip to the BW, and save that money for different trips/gear.

With that said, I will do a trip to the Q in the next few years, but for the time being, the two hour drive from my house to my favorite BW EP is pretty hard to beat.

Lastly, the lack of a latrine and fire grate doesn't make me want to get to the Q any quicker. In a way, needing to make shift those items at each campsite goes against the LNT principles I've come to deeply respect.

I don't believe anyone's mentioned travel health insurance. Many will have this through their work or credit card. Is this part of your consideration?

I cannot wrap my head around the drive and paperwork as being a deterrent for anyone. You can enter out of Ely (I know, that's not the northern entry Jackfish mentioned in the OP, but if the drive is the deterrent...), and reading a few pages online and filling out the paperwork is not more difficult than getting onto the Rec.gov site and booking a BWCA permit.

And I have maintained for years that the cost is more than fair. Yes, it is more expensive the the BW, but the solitude the Jackfish mentioned is beyond worth it. And unlike the BW, permit hoarders get seriously dinged if they try their scam when booking Quetico permits.

x2jmorris: "For me the drive is a big part. I live in Duluth so I am a couple hours from most entry points. The Quetico has interested me before though and the other reasons I haven't is I still haven't got a passport even though I really need one soon. And then the two main ones outside of driving are unsure of where to go and unsure of the process of making a reservation."

I don't have a passport and that has been a big part for me too. I am also in Duluth and have to renew my license soon. I plan on getting the Enhanced Driver License which allows me to go into Canada without a passport. Solves one issue!

For me...it's more of a, i've been on 34ish trips to the BW and I still have plenty of lakes and areas to explore. Q represents added work, added drive time, and added cost. I'm generally happy with the BW experience and don't see a need to add complexity to it.

Frenchy19: "I cannot wrap my head around the drive and paperwork as being a deterrent for anyone. You can enter out of Ely (I know, that's not the northern entry Jackfish mentioned in the OP, but if the drive is the deterrent...), and reading a few pages online and filling out the paperwork is not more difficult than getting onto the Rec.gov site and booking a BWCA permit.


And I have maintained for years that the cost is more than fair. Yes, it is more expensive the the BW, but the solitude the Jackfish mentioned is beyond worth it. And unlike the BW, permit hoarders get seriously dinged if they try their scam when booking Quetico permits. "

Hey Frenchy. Even if you go through Ely you still need the RABC permit, Passport/Realid, pay more, and have to travel a far distance across long lakes to even begin being in the Quetico. I think most if not all of that is correct and if one item isn't correct the majority is. And the cost going from 50 dollars to 500 dollars is a huge jump. I am not saying it isn't worth it to you and Jack but all of those things combined... idk like others have said I have gone many times into the bwca and been in total isolation. I just can't go in June, July, and August which is too hot anyways :D

I spent the 90's in the BWCA and then jumped to Quetico for a few trips. Retired in 2000 and made the jump to Woodland Caribou in Ontario and never looked back. Spent 5% of my time since in that park. Covered that one a few times now spend a month each summer in Manitoba's Atikaki Provincial Park. Each move was a little more of a challenge but if you have the extra travel time available it is very simple to visit these parks. WCPP has unlimited permits but have a daily fee. Atikaki has no limits and no fees at all. ALSO VIRTUALLY NO OTHER PEOPLE. The issue is maps but travelers like me have detailed trip reports on CANADIAN CANOE ROUTES data base. My reports include a GPS file of port ages and campsites you can download. I say this to show that with a little internet searching you can easily take the mystery out of upping the adventure.

I have a trip set up next month with 8-10 taking part. A few will stay a month but others take part in this fly-in by float plane as a smaller float plane will pick them up when others are dropped off. COST IN US $550 EACH! it is this cheap because we fill the planes coming and going.

So easy to set up too. Hardest part is working around everyone's schedule. I send an E-mail to Blue Water Aviation in Bissett ,Manitoba with my plan and Tanya sends back the invoice and we pay it all upon arrival. A B&B a few blocks from the plane is icing on the cake.

Yes you need that passport and you get your fishing license on-line. If you paddle into ATIKAKI from Wallace Lake you do need an annual $40 parking pass.

A 15 hour drive from Madison,WI

x2jmorris: "Adding to my comment. I see it is just under a 5 hour drive for me if I go through Thunder Bay which isn't that bad especially if I stop at a family members house in Grand Marais.


But some other things that make me hesitant.

The paperwork I need. I would need a permit I am sure, Canadian fishing license I am guessing, something about RABC I think, passport and maybe other stuff?

I can't find a decent map outside of p@ddle planner's and I am not liking the look of that map. Sorry if who made it is here.

Gear: I feel I would have to update my gear. I would need a light tarp, better rain gear, better sleeping bag and mat, almost everything I think. For the bwca if I am becoming miserable I would just leave as its a short drive home and return another day. I almost feel like the Quetico would be something I would have to plan out more.

And last is familiarity. The bwca I pick a lake and I can just drive there without thinking of how to get there. I have just done so many trips and its almost like 2nd nature going up there."

Where is the sense of adventure? First, you don't need a passport if you enter from either the Gunflint Trail, Prairie Portage (from Moose Lake) or Lac LaCroix. You use an RABC which is good for one year. Easy to order online, just google it.

Here's how to do an introductory Quetico trip. Enter at Prairie Portage. Get an outfitter on Moose Lake (there are several good ones) and let them do the work for you. They can get you a permit, a tow from the outfitter to PP ranger station will save about 2 and 1/2 hours paddle time on day one.

Get a MacKenzie Map of your area. Look at trip reports on here. The bottom line is the two parks are a very different experience. You will encounter way less people especially if you go 2 days in to the interior.

It's not that difficult to plan a trip. You WILL pay more and need barbless hooks if you fish. As for gear - yes, go get a new rain TOP. Your old pants will be fine. A light tarp is great but not necessary. Look for closeouts or blemished items on websites. Sierra always runs discounts.

I hope to never go back to the BW after enduring 2 trips during covid times. In Quetico it's still possible to get away from it all. But, if you're content to do the same old same old every year then stick to the BW. I can't do that. I have adventure running through me and planning a Quetico trip excites the hell out of me!

BTW, I planned my first Quetico trip in 1988. I did all my planning with a Robert Beymer book on Quetico and a Fisher map. I think it's maybe a tad easier to plan these days. :)

Great, now Atikaki is going to get overcrowded.... :-)

sns: "Great, now Atikaki is going to get overcrowded.... :-)"

If I thought that more than a few would check it out I would have kept quiet and not posted YouTube videos and trip reports. Years ago I was having breakfast before Canoepia where I was doing a presentation on special places I had found in WCPP. The then manager of Quetico asked me why I would tell others of such places. No problem with crowds rushing into such places but I hope I got a few to take that next step by providing the info.

TomT:

"Where is the sense of adventure? First, you don't need a passport if you enter from either the Gunflint Trail, Prairie Portage (from Moose Lake) or Lac LaCroix. You use an RABC which is good for one year. Easy to order online, just google it.


Here's how to do an introductory Quetico trip. Enter at Prairie Portage. Get an outfitter on Moose Lake (there are several good ones) and let them do the work for you. They can get you a permit, a tow from the outfitter to PP ranger station will save about 2 and 1/2 hours paddle time on day one.


Get a MacKenzie Map of your area. Look at trip reports on here. The bottom line is the two parks are a very different experience. You will encounter way less people especially if you go 2 days in to the interior.


It's not that difficult to plan a trip. You WILL pay more and need barbless hooks if you fish. As for gear - yes, go get a new rain TOP. Your old pants will be fine. A light tarp is great but not necessary. Look for closeouts or blemished items on websites. Sierra always runs discounts.


I hope to never go back to the BW after enduring 2 trips during covid times. In Quetico it's still possible to get away from it all. But, if you're content to do the same old same old every year then stick to the BW. I can't do that. I have adventure running through me and planning a Quetico trip excites the hell out of me!

BTW, I planned my first Quetico trip in 1988. I did all my planning with a Robert Beymer book on Quetico and a Fisher map. I think it's maybe a tad easier to plan these days. :)

"

Very cool TomT! Thank you and I do wish to do it someday. And I doubt anyone I know would do it but someday I do hope to reach out on here and see if anyone wants to do a trip up there. Perhaps I would then be addicted as you all are.

Like Marten, I have largely tripped in Canada since retirement in 2007. The few trips I have made to the BWCA and Quetico since then have been shoulder season trips. I remember a July 1999 church youth group trip I was an adult leader on during which we had to seek and claim campsites by early afternoon. Too many people and too much overuse in the B/Q. Since retirement it has mostly been Canada for me. Sure, it's costly but the solitude is worth it to me. And besides at near age 76 how many more years can I do these trips. That is my justification to the missus at home and it still works.

x2jmorris: "

Frenchy19: "I cannot wrap my head around the drive and paperwork as being a deterrent for anyone. You can enter out of Ely (I know, that's not the northern entry Jackfish mentioned in the OP, but if the drive is the deterrent...), and reading a few pages online and filling out the paperwork is not more difficult than getting onto the Rec.gov site and booking a BWCA permit.

And I have maintained for years that the cost is more than fair. Yes, it is more expensive the the BW, but the solitude the Jackfish mentioned is beyond worth it. And unlike the BW, permit hoarders get seriously dinged if they try their scam when booking Quetico permits. "

Hey Frenchy. Even if you go through Ely you still need the RABC permit, Passport/Realid, pay more, and have to travel a far distance across long lakes to even begin being in the Quetico. I think most if not all of that is correct and if one item isn't correct the majority is. And the cost going from 50 dollars to 500 dollars is a huge jump. I am not saying it isn't worth it to you and Jack but all of those things combined... idk like others have said I have gone many times into the bwca and been in total isolation. I just can't go in June, July, and August which is too hot anyways :D "

The June, July and August comment really hits home on this. I taught for 30 years, so my only options were during those months. Sadly, May, September and October were really not even on the menu for me other than 3-4 day weekends. So, I hear you loud and clear!

Frenchy19: "I cannot wrap my head around the drive and paperwork as being a deterrent for anyone. You can enter out of Ely (I know, that's not the northern entry Jackfish mentioned in the OP, but if the drive is the deterrent...), and reading a few pages online and filling out the paperwork is not more difficult than getting onto the Rec.gov site and booking a BWCA permit.


And I have maintained for years that the cost is more than fair. Yes, it is more expensive the the BW, but the solitude the Jackfish mentioned is beyond worth it. And unlike the BW, permit hoarders get seriously dinged if they try their scam when booking Quetico permits. "

Agree. For me it could be just the fact that the BW has fire grates and a Biffy. I don’t want that reminder, even subconsciously that “here is where you camp, and our park team will maintain this area”.

I love the freedom of Quetico. You can camp anywhere in a pinch, just respect the area. It’s hard to put into words but on a “Wilderness Feeling” 1-10 scale I’d give the BW a 3 and Quetico a 7.

I’ll very happily pay for those 4 extra points. Life’s too short not to.

Now the exception are those PMA areas in the BW. If I’m ever forced to stay in the US, that’s where I’m going.

I went to Quetico years ago with my father. It was beautiful and secluded. Great.

The big thing I remember, though, was my dad griping about how Canada nickel and dimed you for everything. It seemed like not only were goods and food more expensive, but you needed a permit for everything but breathing.

I just read the regulations...If you have any kind of US conviction, you could be turned away at the border. If you have a DIU, you will be automatically denied entry. You have a $30 entry fee and another +$20 per night per person. So that's an extra $20 per day per person if we consider the $30 one time fee per person a wash. For the group i just took in...that's $800 extra.

If you go in from the US side you need a Remote Area Permit....The over-regulation I think is hard for Americans to accept. At least for me and my kind.

But I hear they are the nicest of all totalitarians!

Quetico was my first exposure to the area back in 1972 when I went up there with my dad and some friends. Went back to Quetico many times with friends and family. I solo now, and at age 73 I feel a little more secure with a few more people around in the Boundary Waters. I would do Prairie Portage (as I have many times) but the howling winds on Bailey Bay are so often a problem.

Time is also a factor for the north side, two long driving days instead of one each way.

Still, I'd love to go back to Quetico, though my canoeing window is getting shorter each year.

Dave

The big two: time and money.
The BWCA is a world-class vacation destination for $40 plus gas or whatever. The Q isn't that much more, I get it, but I don't HAVE that much more. Also, short trips are harder to Q.
An aside: My wife and I just got back from a Sawbill-only weekend. It was terrific. We saw other people. Some of them were in -gasp- motorboats. I guess what I mean is, if your goal is to not see other people, there are lots of other better bets. Q, crown land, backpacking, go down in the basement, winter camp, etc.
If seeing people wrecks your trip, I don't know, man, something else might be happening with you.

What is stopping me from going to Quetico? The same things that stop me from going to Tulum, the Tetons, or Thailand. 1) Money 2) Time off from work
I have limited amounts of each, so I guess I will leave Quetico to the true Wilderness purists.

"~ Farther drive?
~ No latrine boxes (don't want to dig a hole)?
~ Unsure of where to go?
~ Unsure of the process of making a reservation?"


These right here sum it up for me.

treehorn: ""~ Farther drive?
~ No latrine boxes (don't want to dig a hole)?
~ Unsure of where to go?
~ Unsure of the process of making a reservation?"

These right here sum it up for me."

Wow, the responses in my opinion have little merit. I started going to woodland caribou in 2010 and I could see why the fuss about that place. One of the biggest things I see for people in the BWCA is solitude... both Quetico and Woodland Caribou have an abundance of that.

Paperwork? Am I missing something? Don’t know where to go? Poor maps? There are very detailed maps in both Fisher and McKenzie. In Ontario, whether you camp in a park or strictly Crownland, you pay similar fees. But like Jackfish and others have said, there is nothing like it for lots of reasons. Well worth the moola.

one more item I thought of to add... if I'm going to go thru the work and spending the time and money to go to Canada, I'm going to want to go a lot further in to Canada than a handful of miles north of the border.

This has been a really interesting discussion and has made me think way harder about Quetico than ever before.

I have a new take on the previous said reasons on why some or most might be hesitant and it revolves around cost and solitude.

The BWCA offers if you go at the right times plenty of solitude and the escape from the modern world. It offers all of that for a fee of around 50 dollars (group of 4) and then some food so for me the total trip with gas, permit, food, etc is under 200 dollars.

It is a extremely cheap vacation.

If you do this in the Quetico then you are closer to a grand or just under.

Pretty significant difference in cost especially when one can accomplish a similar solitude in the BWCA.

Back to the cost though. Since the BWCA is so cheap it opens up at least for me another vacation that I can spend money on like the Redwoods or the Dells for example.

But it's worth it you say! But is it? I get a similar experience if I go at the right times in the right areas for a fraction of the cost.

So I think in conclusion that it depends on what your preferred vacation is!

Some really like getting out into the outdoors and want a real experience and a new experience therefore they will spend more on a wilderness trip. Some like me just kind of want that but also want to do other types of vacations. The cheapness of the BWCA allows me to do both wilderness and another vacation in the same year.

I love the drive and visit to Ely, and with time I've had more and more friends living up there that I like to visit (usually not enough time for all). so I really like Ely.
That said, I've done one trip to Quetico and it was great. But what prevents me from going more frequently:
-It's about an extra day's drive each way....the dreaded "WHEN will you be home?" is already followed by "wow, gone 7-8 days that's a long time" (insert angry emoji here)...
-Sure, I could drive through the night and put in in the morning. That's what our group did. I don't like that approach one bit, as I like to finish organizing, have a great night's sleep, and not start the trip wiped out.

-My BW planning generally starts with 5-6 guys and dwindles to 2 or 1. So I already have a hard enough time selling my friends on Minnesota, let alone Canada.

-The Q trip I did probably cost me 4x what a BW trip normally costs, although some of that was because I joined an existing group that tends to outfit everything including food.

All that said, I'd love to get back to Q or go to Woodland Caribou. Time/money/assembling a group are my primary obstacles.

$$$
Whether it's "fair" or "well worth it," the cost is prohibitive. Not that I haven't been to Quetico and loved it. Finances are a real constraint for many.

I like to financially support my local community before the global community.

Some very interesting responses - many of which I expected. Some surprised me.

Thank you all for your input and honest discussion. If anyone else wants to add their commentary, please do so.

nctry: "

treehorn: ""~ Farther drive?
~ No latrine boxes (don't want to dig a hole)?
~ Unsure of where to go?
~ Unsure of the process of making a reservation?"

These right here sum it up for me."

Wow, the responses in my opinion have little merit. I started going to woodland caribou in 2010 and I could see why the fuss about that place. One of the biggest things I see for people in the BWCA is solitude... both Quetico and Woodland Caribou have an abundance of that.

Paperwork? Am I missing something? Don’t know where to go? Poor maps? There are very detailed maps in both Fisher and McKenzie. In Ontario, whether you camp in a park or strictly Crownland, you pay similar fees. But like Jackfish and others have said, there is nothing like it for lots of reasons. Well worth the moola."

I'm not saying my reasons have much merit...but they are my reasons, and why I'm happy staying south of the border for the time being.

Before I ever started going to the BWCA, I knew definitively less about it than I do about Quetico now. But I got obsessed, and learned the EP's, the lakes, the permit system, the rules/regs, all that.

Then whenever I look toward Quetico out of whatever curiosity is tickling me at the moment, it all seems different and more confusing...more different than I'm willing to embark on another obsession to learn.

So, I guess it's mostly laziness and comfort with the familiar, although I never repeat BWCA trips. That, and digging the holes...

"When I wore a younger mans clothes", I may have considered it. Ailments my wife and I both have sort of slowed our roll on how much work we want to put in on these trips.
We primarily stick to short one or two portages to get us off EP lakes but we don't go any further these days. It honestly sounds exciting but I think there is a bit of "give up", the older you get. Maybe I need an attitude adjustment.

Since you asked. . .we bring a group of 16 or more men up every year. Over half carry weapons as a lifestyle. I would lose well over half of our group if we announced we were going into Quetico due to the firearms restrictions.

okinaw55: " It honestly sounds exciting but I think there is a bit of "give up", the older you get. Maybe I need an attitude adjustment."

That's just really sad because it's a decision that you make. Are your friends influencing you? I will say that I will never get to that point unless physically I'm unable to go.

Interesting question...

Others have already identified many of the drawbacks so, looking at the positives: I think the unquestioned 2 primary motivators for going to Quetico vs the BWCA are solitude/less people and more/bigger/easier fishing.

While I do enjoy solitude, I'm not totally against seeing other people - especially like minded ones as would most likely be encountered. If solitude was truly the impetus, I wouldn't choose Quetico as the place to best achieve it.

And, I do like catching fish but it's never has been (and God willing) never will be the end all of a successful trip for me personally. Yet again, if fishing was THE reason for going, Quetico wouldn't be anywhere near my first choice.

Ultimately, absolutely nothing against those with differing opinions, but I enjoy the varied experiences and convenience that the BWCA offers (if wanted - usually you just have to work harder to achieve/find those things.) Building on that point, It should go without saying that anyone who voluntarily choose to drag their food/clothing/shelter on their back each day is already predisposed to not seek out the path of least resistance. So struggling to better achieve those goals is all part of the process and makes it all the more rewarding when things swing favorably.

Of course I don't live in Chicago, Madison, St Paul (or any big city etc.) either... :)

TomT: "

okinaw55: " It honestly sounds exciting but I think there is a bit of "give up", the older you get. Maybe I need an attitude adjustment."

That's just really sad because it's a decision that you make. Are your friends influencing you? I will say that I will never get to that point unless physically I'm unable to go. "

Another good reason to think of canoe destinations that allow float planes. The only portage needed is to and from the plane.

TomT: "

okinaw55: " It honestly sounds exciting but I think there is a bit of "give up", the older you get. Maybe I need an attitude adjustment."

That's just really sad because it's a decision that you make. Are your friends influencing you? I will say that I will never get to that point unless physically I'm unable to go. "

No outside influence just what I said. You've been the first to verify I need to change my thinking and I thank you. Maybe more will come forward in support.

okinaw55: "

TomT: "

okinaw55: " It honestly sounds exciting but I think there is a bit of "give up", the older you get. Maybe I need an attitude adjustment."

That's just really sad because it's a decision that you make. Are your friends influencing you? I will say that I will never get to that point unless physically I'm unable to go. "

No outside influence just what I said. You've been the first to verify I need to change my thinking and I thank you. Maybe more will come forward in support."

I'll support ya too! You are 58 according to your profile it looks like. I have read tons of people on here tripping into their 70s. Heck my dad just did a rough hike in the bwca at 75.

Of course I don't know your health but you aren't that old. Perhaps slower but there doesn't have to be a rush out there.

I can bitch about the cost and hassle of The Quetico…in a way I already have :)

BUT…as someone that has done both if i can afford it I always try to do the Q. I have a few days off next week and I am going to swing a 3 day trip out of French Lake and Pickerel with my wife and 3 Teens (wish me luck). I have no idea what the trip will bring, but I am confident that it will be a great time even if I just paddle a few miles. If I did the same thing in the BWCAW I’d probably be wracked with anxiety.

My first trip to the Q was 2001. We had been doing 2-3 BWCAW trips per year until that point. My wife won a website design contest and we received a fully outfitted trip through VNO. John said as long as the trip is free do Quetico. We took a tow from Crane, Customs, then a 1 hour 4 mile portage bus ride in Canada to Lac La Croix, to Zups, past Campbells Sea Base with sea planes all over the place, camped on Darky Lake and saw the best pictos ever, caught my first Laker on Earl, caught my first 30 inch walleye on Brent, caught my biggest smally (22”) in Gardner Bay, saw 5 moose, swam in the clearest water I’ve ever seen on Argo Lake, found the Ted Lake message jar, pictos on Ted…left via LBF to Mudro and had a beer at Chainsaw sisters waiting for VNO who gave us another beer…this was the best trip of my life and hooked me on the Q. So I am entirely biased but the Q to me is 10x better than the BWCAW…whatever you like about the BWCAW it is better in the Q :)

With that said…all of the reasons all of you have listed for NOT doing a Q trip are valid. I totally get and respect everyone’s responses.

T

"We took a tow from Crane, Customs, then a 1 hour 4 mile portage bus ride in Canada to Lac La Croix, to Zups, past Campbells Sea Base with sea planes all over the place, camped on Darky Lake and saw the best pictos ever, caught my first Laker on Earl, caught my first 30 inch walleye on Brent, caught my biggest smally (22”) in Gardner Bay, saw 5 moose, swam in the clearest water I’ve ever seen on Argo Lake, found the Ted Lake message jar, pictos on Ted…left via LBF to Mudro and had a beer at Chainsaw sisters waiting for VNO who gave us another beer…"

What a trip!

At this point in my career I'm probably way passed going there, but all of the customs regulations, passport, fishing permits and all the other stuff are enough reason not to even try.

Haven't been since the live bait ban. I love the park but, I like fishing with live bait also. I don't mind the barbless hooks and I think the fishing is better in Quetico.

x2jmorris: "

okinaw55: "

TomT: "

okinaw55: " It honestly sounds exciting but I think there is a bit of "give up", the older you get. Maybe I need an attitude adjustment."

That's just really sad because it's a decision that you make. Are your friends influencing you? I will say that I will never get to that point unless physically I'm unable to go. "

No outside influence just what I said. You've been the first to verify I need to change my thinking and I thank you. Maybe more will come forward in support."

I'll support ya too! You are 58 according to your profile it looks like. I have read tons of people on here tripping into their 70s. Heck my dad just did a rough hike in the bwca at 75.

Of course I don't know your health but you aren't that old. Perhaps slower but there doesn't have to be a rush out there. "

I'm so impressed with the septuagenarians on this board and everywhere who continue to soldier on with their canoe trips. In fact I have probably neglected to acknowledge the odd octogeniarian in this tribute. It is profoundly inspiring.

ockycamper: "Since you asked. . .we bring a group of 16 or more men up every year. Over half carry weapons as a lifestyle. I would lose well over half of our group if we announced we were going into Quetico due to the firearms restrictions."

This is probably the most intriguing response I have read in this thread. No, I'm not anti-firearms or any of that. I just can't imagine a lifestyle choice that would confine me to one place when there's a great big world to explore.

AmarilloJim: "Quetico and Jean lakes last week looked like the BWCA. Almost every camp site filled and the parking lot was overflowing upon my departure."

Did you go in through Beaverhouse? It was packed when I arrived on the 21st, but nearly empty when I exited yesterday. It definitely ebbs and flows.

For me, mainly price. We already drive 1200 miles one way, $600-$700 per person to get out there and back. Between gas, canoe rentals, and all the other extras, I can't justify the expense of a border crossing.

Quetico will definitely be a future trip when I have better financial stability, but we just bought a house from the 1870s so my main priority is restoring my home that has been jimmy-rigged throughout the centuries.

I live vicariously through the trip reports to Quetico. Maybe 2030?

"...my main priority is restoring my home that has been jimmy-rigged throughout the centuries."

I've paddled ^this^ water too. Beware the reefs and squalls!

I didn't go to Quetico in years past because: money, time and logistics with two young boys. Exactly what XJMorris points out: I could do three quick BWCA trips for less than the price of a single Q trip with them. BWCA met the objectives.

I don't go to Quetico now because:
Crown land, Opasquia, Bloodvein, Churchill, Sachigo, and a million other hectares that have not yet burned.

Call me an idiot; say the reasons have no merit, but that's where I am. I'll measure my paddle against your paddle on any day of the week. ;)

Hey, Jill Pine! Yeah, it's a big, wonderful world up there.

missmolly: "Hey, Jill Pine! Yeah, it's a big, wonderful world up there. "

It sure is - even for an idiot girl.
Happy paddling, MM!
;)

Maybe someone should start a thread for getting a group of ( never been there, always wanted to, a little intimidated, perhaps slightly ignorant about,) to go together. We'd need at least one veteran willing to put up with newbs. I'd consider being in that group! Fairly fit 61 year old. Fishing wouldn't be a huge priority for me. I usually wet my line but don't try very hard
Just something to ponder

pswith5: "Maybe someone should start a thread for getting a group of ( never been there, always wanted to, a little intimidated, perhaps slightly ignorant about,) to go together. We'd need at least one veteran willing to put up with newbs. I'd consider being in that group! Fairly fit 61 year old. Fishing wouldn't be a huge priority for me. I usually wet my line but don't try very hard.
Just something to ponder. "

I have been having people join me on WCPP and Atikaki trips for years. Last year, ten were involved with people flying in and out of Atikaki over a 39-day period. Next month, we do it again with a few new, but experienced, paddlers joining the adventure.

One new participant came to pick my brain about the area and after a half hour of discussion, I said he should share a canoe with me for a month. In the end, he has a friend coming in mid-trip when my sister and another couple comes in for a while. Most now have InReach devices, so even when off camping by themselves, we can keep in contact if something comes up.

These adventures are about $600 USD because the same canoes are used the whole trip. A bigger plane is needed to haul a canoe and it is $200 each time one is tied on.

Anyone can easily do these with a little research and help from others. Available time is the scarce commodity for most. Got maps - will share.

There is a trip partner folder. That could be a starting place.

I don't have the same experience timeline as Marten, but I do have the same outlook as far as going on longer trips, farther north. Happy to take anyone, join anyone or go by myself, as long as the group members have trip objectives that mesh in terms of rigor, pace, distance, fishing / no fishing, etc.

I've done mixed gender groups, all-men groups (except me), all women groups, even some internationals. They're all different, and they've all been really memorable and worthwhile.

This season is full, but starting plans for 2024.

My second canoe trip is scheduled for September. I never really considered anywhere other than Quetico.

I am coming from Austin, TX - so Ely to Atikokan is merely a rounding error in the total drive time.

I chose Quetico for the same reason I always choose National Forest land or BLM land instead of National Parks when I plan a backpacking trip - fewer people, wilder environment, greater freedom in picking a place to camp, more animals (fish included in this instance)...

The comments about thunderboxes being a plus for the BWs makes me chuckle. I'd pick a cat hole in a remote spot over a box full of other peoples she-it any day! Dig deep, just always dig deep!

Very helpful thank you!