I've been looking at buying my first solo canoe to complement the family tandem. After way too much research I think I have it narrowed down to a Northstar Magic or NW Solo. I primarily want it to be efficient and seaworthy when tripping and able to keep up with tandems but also plan to be using it empty on a fairly wide and slow river for day paddling. Not planning on any rapids, though I suppose that could happen in the BWCA depending on where I go over the next decade.

I've seen a lot of conflicting accounts of these two canoes being described as tippy or stable and I am wondering if that has to do as much with weight, height, and seat position as it does experience. I weigh about 185 and with load less than 230, though I may end up taking my 25 pound dog with at some point so that would be 255-260 max. So within the "optimal load" of each empty and loaded. I'm 6'3" with most of my height in my legs. I've had some knee issues and have size 13 feet, so I'm almost exclusively a sitter. I prefer a relatively high seat position and will probably mostly paddle sit and switch. It seems to me stability may be a pretty important consideration if I'm by myself in the middle of nowhere, but on the other hand I've never unintentionally dumped. Yet.

I plan on paddling a Magic in the next week or so from a dealer but there will be no NW Solos to try for another month. My heart says Magic for that nice glide but my brain is saying NW Solo for the stability, capacity, easy loading/unloading, and overall versatility. The Magic seems versatile for my use as well, just maybe not as much.

I considered an Advantage or Wilderness but I think I'll prefer something more well-rounded. There's a lot of wind in my neck of the woods so I don't think the rather tall and long Prism would work great (though they sure are the easiest to find used).

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Tough call, and I can understand your perseveration.

I have owned both. Kept the Magic, which was/is definitely faster.

Trip with me (175#) a dog (50#) and UL gear for a total weight of 255-260.

You are a bit taller (I am just under 6'), and I lowered my seat below stock height, so your center of gravity would be higher.

When you paddle the Magic, take packs or dry bags (add water) or whatever it takes to simulate your tripping weight. If you like it, I'd tell you to get the Magic. If you can't get used to it in a 30 minute paddle, head toward the NW solo.

In full disclosure, I bought a Savage River Blackwater which is faster still, and have not tripped in the Magic for a few years.

Your Glide May Vary.

My perspective regarding your choice, having owned both, is the following:

*Initial stability in both will feel very different than your tandem and will improve with experience. Secondary stability is equal between your choices.

*Use a double blade paddle in rough waters. Having one of those blades constantly in the water will give confidence. Also, a double blade will help you keep up with the tandem paddlers regardless of the canoe. Keep a single blade in the boat for when making time is not a major concern.

*if paddling with dog and gear is a frequent occurrence, go with the NW Solo

Magic w/E6 Carbon thwart and trim. Alum footbrace.

I really like this boat as it is really efficient and stable. From all day travel to jigging walleyes and Lakers in Q and the BWCA it has seen a variety of uses and handled them all well.

27LBS all up

I use a ZRE single and also a Bending Branches Carbon 260 kayak paddle as well.

If it is windy or I just want to make time then the Yak paddle gets the nod as it is on average .5 mph faster.

Single blade when Im just cruising or keeping up with my buddy in his Old Town Northern Light with his Yak paddle..............grin

I have a NW Solo that I enjoy. It is stable, maneuverable and accommodates our moderate large dog with ease. The major negative is I can't keep up with the NW Magics on the local lakes. If your primary goal is keeping pace with a well paddled tandem, the Magic is the better choice.

The Magic is a bit narrower so I see many of those paddled with double bladed paddles.

Good Luck

Thanks for the great info so far, definitely has me leaning towards the Magic. sns, that Blackwater is a beauty but more than I'm willing to spend. If you've thought about selling your Magic, let me know.

ISRO: "
"

Very nice. What size pack is that and how much does it weigh? One of the things I'm wondering about is getting it trimmed properly with one pack so I can single portage. I'm surprised a double bladed paddle is that much faster. I have a Wenonah Black Lite now but will have to consider a double blade in the future.

My two cents-

The Magic makes almost the perfect compromises for an all around tripping solo. Decent speed, surprisingly sea worthy, comfortable to paddle.

A double blade is only faster if you're better at paddling with a double. A single bent paddled from a seated position should be the most efficient means of locomotion. If you paddle faster with a double its because you paddle at a higher cadence with a double than you do with a single. From a seated position the bent (when properly wielded) will transfer more of the energy you expend into forward motion.

I paddled an Advantage for most of my career and like SNS have jumped to a Savage River Blackwater late in life.

plmn: "Thanks for the great info so far, definitely has me leaning towards the Magic. sns, that Blackwater is a beauty but more than I'm willing to spend. If you've thought about selling your Magic, let me know.

ISRO: "
"

Very nice. What size pack is that and how much does it weigh? One of the things I'm wondering about is getting it trimmed properly with one pack so I can single portage. I'm surprised a double bladed paddle is that much faster. I have a Wenonah Black Lite now but will have to consider a double blade in the future. "

Pack weight to start was about 53LBS with a weeks worth of food for my Q trip last fall.

I limited my travel to 8 hours a day on last falls solo trip, at that I would only single portage for the first 4-4.5 hrs then double portaged as I realized fatigue was a factor and did not need to risk an injury.

Started at PP on a Thursday and paddled up the Man Chain, left on the Falls Chain, left into the McEwen Chain thru to Louisa/Agnes and out to Basswood on Sunday.

There were many sections that I double portaged due to the rain and terrain.

I'd put my Greyduck Orion against either of those boats. If you'd like you can paddle mine anytime. I'm in Stillwater.

I've owned both Magic and NW Solo and I agree with all the thoughtful comments you've gotten already. Magic is excellent in high wind. I used mine almost exclusively on rivers and the handling is much better than it should be for a boat with not much rocker. I recommend that you take a variety of seat pads on your test paddle so you can raise the seat height to your preference because your height plus preference for a high seat are the only things that could possibly make a Magic feel tippy although my coonhound was top heavy and it was never a problem.

Arcola: "I'd put my Greyduck Orion against either of those boats. If you'd like you can paddle mine anytime. I'm in Stillwater.
"

Thanks for the offer, there's not much info out there on Greyduck. I did consider the Orion originally, but they are at least $700 more expensive and from what I can find on their website all their finishes, including clear, appear to be gelcoats. Otherwise from the specs it looks like it may be much like the Magic at the waterline while being more open at the gunwales. An interesting design and not totally out of the question yet.

Ask the dealer to provide both a longer double blade paddle (260cm) and single blade paddle when you test the Magic. Decide for yourself which will propel you more efficiently.

ISRO: "Pack weight to start was about 53LBS with a weeks worth of food for my Q trip last fall. "

That pack looks like a perfect fit. According to my measurements one of my Sealline 115s should fit if it's not full to the top, while my GG #4 has no chance unless it's sitting upright above the gunwale, which may act like a sail. I'll be bringing those and a backpack with to try so I'll find out.

Arcola's suggestion of the Orion is a good one...should have thought of that. I would say it has elements of both the Magic and NW solo, and glides superbly.

Here's his:


More intel is good - take him up on his offer to paddle it!

I test drove the NW Solo and Magic side by side 5 years ago at a MW Mtneering demo day. The NW Solo felt a bit more stable on that first paddle, but the Magic was..... well, Magic. Loved the glide and handling over the NW Solo. Since then, I still love the Magic. I canoe all the time with my 60 lb dog with no issues (of course the temperament of the dog is going to matter as much if not more than the weight). The Magic feels very stable to me.

I was able to get a steal on a used Magic several years ago now, the thing is a beast! Super fast. I think though if I bought new id go with the NW Solo, sacrafice a little speed but have a little more room in the canoe.

The only way I'd pick the NW solo over the Magic is if I had a large dog that was not well behaved, or if fishing was my main priority, more because it is more maneuverable than anything about the tipiness.

I looked at both the Magic and the NW solo and the Magic was just too snug for the dog up front and I couldn't get my pack far enough back in the stern to trim out properly, so I got the NW Solo. I got it specifically for trips in the Boundary Waters and because I'm never really in a huge hurry, speed an maneuverability were further down my list of wants/needs, with comfort, stability, and cargo space at the top. I have used it on 4 trips and have probably around 100 miles on the water with it.

I really love the canoe and would still recommend it to any solo paddler, but if I could do it all again I honestly probably wouldn't get either. I feel I should have purchased the Basswood Solo (which I was also considering), simply for even more stability and space.

I suspect for you a Magic or NW Solo would make you happy. The Magic is like the nimble sports coupe and the NW Solo is the sports sedan that doesn't corner as well but has a bit more room.

I looked at several different solo canoes before deciding on the Merlin III. I got a sweet deal, and it comes in at 28.8#: smooth, great acceleration, good tracking, and responsive turning. The stability is good, even unloaded. I am 6'1" and 220+

Thanks again everybody. Was planning on paddling the Magic this weekend but that's not going to work out. Soon, hopefully. I'm about 80% certain I'll go with it. My biggest question about it now is how much it can haul. From what I can tell a 70-80 liter pack should fit behind me, plus another 30-40 liters in the front if necessary, which should be more than enough.

Where in MN are you? If you're close to Duluth, you're welcome to paddle my NW solo, if you haven't yet been able to test one out.

AlexanderSupertramp: "Where in MN are you? If you're close to Duluth, you're welcome to paddle my NW solo, if you haven't yet been able to test one out."

Thanks for the offer, but I'm clear across the state and don't get that way very often.

plmn: "

Arcola: "I'd put my Greyduck Orion against either of those boats. If you'd like you can paddle mine anytime. I'm in Stillwater.
"

Thanks for the offer, there's not much info out there on Greyduck. I did consider the Orion originally, but they are at least $700 more expensive and from what I can find on their website all their finishes, including clear, appear to be gelcoats. Otherwise from the specs it looks like it may be much like the Magic at the waterline while being more open at the gunwales. An interesting design and not totally out of the question yet. "

I paddled a Magic next to an Orion for 5 days and the Orion outdid the magic around every corner. Great pack space much faster/more efficient, I struggled to keep up. Their Gelcoat holds up better on surprise rocks in my experience and overall beauty of a Grey Duck is higher. I would call Grey Duck and see what they have to say about it though, I agree their isn't much info out there yet.

Ryeman: "
I looked at several different solo canoes before deciding on the Merlin III. I got a sweet deal, and it comes in at 28.8#: smooth, great acceleration, good tracking, and responsive turning. The stability is good, even unloaded. I am 6'1" and 220+



"

Merlin III brothers!

Not sure whether you have chosen your boat yet - but just a thought from my experience. Last year I was in the same exact boat (pun intended!) - and ended up going with a Merlin. I though for sure I wanted a Magic or Swift Cruiser, but then I started test paddling and really thinking about how I was going to paddle. I love both day crusing and tripping - if you're in that same category (if you'll be using this boat for creeks and rivers and tripping in the BWCA), then it's VERY hard to beat the NW Solo / Merlin / Kee15 / Peregrine. You can sit or kneel, they track well but also maneuver, and they run well with a load. I prefer to kneel most of the time using a straight paddle, I think the NW Solo is a much better boat for that than is the Magic.

If you are looking for speed - if you're a fitness paddler or if your preferred style is sit-n-switch with a bent-shaft paddle, then the Magic is about as good as it gets. I think it's a wonderful boat, but after paddling the Merlin I realize just how much fun you can have sneaking into creeks and narrows and inlets when you want (and crusing when you need to). Had I purchased a Magic or Cruiser I would be plenty happy, but I would also be out there getting a second boat (probably a WildFIRE or Phoenix) to explore. The NW Solo does both decently well.

It really does come down to paddling style, but for tripping in the BWCA and similar places you certainly couldn't go wrong with a NW Solo (or its close relatives the Peregrine, Merlin III, and Swift Keewaydin 15).

plmn: "I've been looking at buying my first solo canoe to complement the family tandem. After way too much research I think I have it narrowed down to a Northstar Magic or NW Solo. I primarily want it to be efficient and seaworthy when tripping and able to keep up with tandems but also plan to be using it empty on a fairly wide and slow river for day paddling. Not planning on any rapids, though I suppose that could happen in the BWCA depending on where I go over the next decade.

I've seen a lot of conflicting accounts of these two canoes being described as tippy or stable and I am wondering if that has to do as much with weight, height, and seat position as it does experience. I weigh about 185 and with load less than 230, though I may end up taking my 25 pound dog with at some point so that would be 255-260 max. So within the "optimal load" of each empty and loaded. I'm 6'3" with most of my height in my legs. I've had some knee issues and have size 13 feet, so I'm almost exclusively a sitter. I prefer a relatively high seat position and will probably mostly paddle sit and switch. It seems to me stability may be a pretty important consideration if I'm by myself in the middle of nowhere, but on the other hand I've never unintentionally dumped. Yet.

I plan on paddling a Magic in the next week or so from a dealer but there will be no NW Solos to try for another month. My heart says Magic for that nice glide but my brain is saying NW Solo for the stability, capacity, easy loading/unloading, and overall versatility. The Magic seems versatile for my use as well, just maybe not as much.

I considered an Advantage or Wilderness but I think I'll prefer something more well-rounded. There's a lot of wind in my neck of the woods so I don't think the rather tall and long Prism would work great (though they sure are the easiest to find used).

Any thoughts would be appreciated. "

6'3" 185# most of weight in legs. Lol
I have a prism if you want to try it out. It is for sale.
Definitely get yourself a kayak paddle. If you have some money. Spurge on a Werner ulral light bent shaft. Take care of it and it will last 40 years. Call the factory and ask for a blemished paddle.. 6'2" 220# trying unsuccessfully to lose any. Age 60. Up until 52 i could eat what i want. No longer

I had a similar dilemma myself. I'm heavier than you and carry more gear, resulting in about a 300lb total payload, at 5'9" though so lower center of gravity as well. I rented a NW Solo last year and loved it. The Magic seems to be the way to go for almost everything except winding rivers/creeks, or fishing, due to the slimmer/faster hull and better tracking. I see a lot more of them for sale than NW Solos. While waiting for a decent condition NW Solo to be listed at a price I could justify for a used boat, I ended up just buying a new one in red Starlite with wood trim. I couldn't deny the beauty.

What I will say regarding stability is that the NW Solo is a little squirrelly with just me in it. Once you're in it, and paddling normally, it's pretty much fine, but it definitely rocks a little if you shift your weight. With an extra 80lbs of gear, food, and camera stuff, it's noticeably more stable. I think a Magic with my gear loadout would also probably feel mostly fine for me, but at your height, with no gear, especially if you raise the seat drops higher than the standard seating height, it might be on the tippy side. What you gain in speed over the NW Solo for typical tripping (I'd assume ~0.5-0.8mph), you lose in stability, maneuverability, and cargo capacity. I had no problem keeping my NW Solo around 3-3.2mph with a moderate single blade pace, and I could go faster if needed, but prefer the steady pace.

As everyone says, I'd urge you to paddle them both before buying, but I think most would agree that the NW Solo is the more versatile boat. With a dog potential, I think the NW Solo is the clear front runner. If you're around the Twin Cities, I could possibly meet up with you to let you paddle mine after work on a weekday next week.

JD: "I had a similar dilemma myself. I'm heavier than you and carry more gear, resulting in about a 300lb total payload, at 5'9" though so lower center of gravity as well. I rented a NW Solo last year and loved it. The Magic seems to be the way to go for almost everything except winding rivers/creeks, or fishing, due to the slimmer/faster hull and better tracking. I see a lot more of them for sale than NW Solos. While waiting for a decent condition NW Solo to be listed at a price I could justify for a used boat, I ended up just buying a new one in red Starlite with wood trim. I couldn't deny the beauty.


What I will say regarding stability is that the NW Solo is a little squirrelly with just me in it. Once you're in it, and paddling normally, it's pretty much fine, but it definitely rocks a little if you shift your weight. With an extra 80lbs of gear, food, and camera stuff, it's noticeably more stable. I think a Magic with my gear loadout would also probably feel mostly fine for me, but at your height, with no gear, especially if you raise the seat drops higher than the standard seating height, it might be on the tippy side. What you gain in speed over the NW Solo for typical tripping (I'd assume ~0.5-0.8mph), you lose in stability, maneuverability, and cargo capacity. I had no problem keeping my NW Solo around 3-3.2mph with a moderate single blade pace, and I could go faster if needed, but prefer the steady pace.


As everyone says, I'd urge you to paddle them both before buying, but I think most would agree that the NW Solo is the more versatile boat. With a dog potential, I think the NW Solo is the clear front runner. If you're around the Twin Cities, I could possibly meet up with you to let you paddle mine after work on a weekday next week."

I have a very nice bent shaft kayak paddle you could try out. I live right nect to Medicine lake in Plymouth. No more momentum killing energy wasting J stroke

Thanks again for the thoughts.

I found an older Bell Magic for sale, but there are a few spider cracks in it, the worst being a foot or so long. I didn't realize this but they used clear gelcoat instead of resin back then. No chips or peeling or apparent damage to the underlying Kevlar but I'm thinking I'd still want to fix that to prevent future issues. The gelcoat repair I did on my ski boat, well, let's just say it's a good thing it was underneath and mostly out of sight. Any thoughts? Does anything really need to be done at all so long as it isn't chipping? Other than that it appears to be in great shape for its age, much better than an outfitter rental.

A used boat is pretty attractive, since I know that even if I don't like it I can still use it for the summer and sell it next year for little to no loss. But the gelcoat is giving me some pause.

Give Northstar a call. You might even get to ask Ted Bell directly what his recommendation would be.

plmn: "Thanks again for the thoughts.


I found an older Bell Magic for sale, but there are a few spider cracks in it, the worst being a foot or so long. I didn't realize this but they used clear gelcoat instead of resin back then. No chips or peeling or apparent damage to the underlying Kevlar but I'm thinking I'd still want to fix that to prevent future issues. The gelcoat repair I did on my ski boat, well, let's just say it's a good thing it was underneath and mostly out of sight. Any thoughts? Does anything really need to be done at all so long as it isn't chipping? Other than that it appears to be in great shape for its age, much better than an outfitter rental.


A used boat is pretty attractive, since I know that even if I don't like it I can still use it for the summer and sell it next year for little to no loss. But the gelcoat is giving me some pause. "

Gelcoat protects the boat. Spider cracks are cosmetic for the most part, unless the boat really took a hit and is soft. The "anti gelcoat" thoughts are silly at best unless one is trying to save 2-3 pounds and doesn't intend to hit bottom or rocks, EVER. Buy the boat and go paddling.

Go for it! Used canoes definitely hold their value. About 15 years ago we purchased a used canoe from an outfitter and then sold it 8 years later for the same price.