I am planning my BWCA trip for early July and have been told the bugs will be out in force. I want to treat my pants/shirts/socks/hat with permethrin and also wanted to treat my UV Buff. I am worried about treating my Buff because I dont know if it is safe to breath through when the permethrin has dried. Is Permethrin harmless when it is dry? Have any of you had treated Buffs, Scarves, or anything that would be in close proximity to your respiratory system? Thanks!

If the bugs get that bad, I'd go with a head net. It will give you fuller protection.

It's good to be planning ahead, of course it'll make the trip smoother and it will help to get through Jan. and Feb. UGH!

About the permethrin: you might want to go to the Sawyer web site, they have very clear instructions on how to use it and just what it does. www.sawyer.com

For me, the big thing to get through my noodle was that it kills bugs not repels them. So they may be stone dead in (guessing here) three minutes that still leaves say, two minutes to bite. One of my really big worries are ticks so I spray clothes and tent etc. with permithrin and use cream based DEET as well.
Gempler's carries farm size permethrin containers which ought to be cheaper. Just do you homework as to dilution.
Best Wishes, Rob

Same as Snakecharmer, use a head net. I wouldn't take a chance breathing in a chemical when I have the option to not do it. I have no problem using premethrin just not over your mouth/nose. I don't have any research to back up my statement.

T

I am in the chemical business, and do not recommend putting Permethrin on your buff. Best not to do that im my opinion. I use it on my clothes. Shirts and pants mainly. It works Peachy.

Permetherin is a synthetic Pyrethroid, and very safe to Mammals, but not for inhalation. Some folks have some skin sensation to it, like an itching, but mainly from the active liquid, not once it's dried on your clothes. It has No real know harmful effects to humans, cat's, dogs, kids, etc.

SunCatcher

Been using it for about 5 or 6 years now ... treating clothing (including a neck scarf) and as a spray for the exterior of hats. But, I would not use it for anything I breath through directly. I take a head net for that and it is untreated. I have shown a slight skin sensitivity to treated items, but in areas where my on perspiration and/or contact with water has likely taken some of the residual treatment back to a liquid state. To remedy this, I've chosen to do one washing of clothing pre-trip ... treatments are supposed to endure through about 6 washings. This has eliminated my sensitivity problem.

I've found permethrin to be effective against mosquitoes and ticks. If clothing is well treated, mosquitoes will generally not lite and ticks will crawl around on treated material for a few seconds and fall off. I've not found permethrin effective against other critters (e.g., black flies no-see-ums, etc.), so I also take deet along for exposed skin (hands, face, neck) as well as the aforementioned head net.

BTW: I did start out with a Sawyer's "soak" product which is hard to find these days. This seemed to be stronger than the current spray products.

dd

I soak all of my clothes (including buffs), head net, bug shirt in permethrin. Get the water based product. It is safer than West Nile Virus.

Much cheaper to buy the bulk concentrate and dilute for soaking rather than buying the Sawyer spray.

If you are worried about the buff, just soak a bandana to use as a neckerchief or under your hat for bug protection and use the untreated buff for sun protection.

I wonder if deet would be better to use on like hats for BWCA use? I don't know about like permethrin washing off a hat and getting to the eyes? A little safer deet may be for the hat part. Somebody else I am sure knows more?
I do use permetrin on pants for deer ticks in central Minnesota.

For when mosquitoes get bad I bought a bug shirt netting,one of the best buys I have made in years. There is some decent webbed shirts that are cheap.

quote dentondoc: "Been using it for about 5 or 6 years now ... treating clothing (including a neck scarf) and as a spray for the exterior of hats. But, I would not use it for anything I breath through directly."

+1 I would not breathe directly through the stuff, but I have no facts or stats to back it up.

I would not be overly concerned about bugs. Some people get overly stressed out about them, and if you fit into that category, a good bug shirt is the way to go. I have always done my trips in long pants and long sleeved shirts partially as protection against bugs, and partially as protection against the sun.

I can honestly tell you that if i had not lost the first little bottle of muskol I bought for my first trip in 1986, I would still have at least 1/2 of it. I cannot tell you the last time i wore bug repellent of any-kind. If they are really bad, I might put a little bug dope on a bandana and tie around my neck, but that is the extent.

The sawyer stuff for instance is .5% Permethrin. People are treated with 5% permethrin topically in medical situations. I have to wonder if it is really that big of a risk to use once a year on a camping trip.

Apparently it can be very bad for the bee population and other insects, but for humans is it worth than deet?

Its also used to treat bedbugs. Probably the pillowcase under the outer pillowcase that you sleep on in hotels has been so treated.

And its used in shampoos for head lice. I wouldn't worry about inhaling it.

quote PINETREE: "I wonder if deet would be better to use on like hats for BWCA use? I don't know about like permethrin washing off a hat and getting to the eyes? A little safer deet may be for the hat part. Somebody else I am sure knows more?
I do use permetrin on pants for deer ticks in central Minnesota.

."

I have read Deet is only affective when applied to your skin has no affect when applied to clothing unlike permethrin.

T

Doesn't deet work by confusing the insect of where the CO2 respiration is coming from. Put it on my hat for years and it seemed to help greatly.

Everything you ever wanted to know about Permethrin.



Read this

Especially:

"Fate in Humans and Animals
Pyrethrins are efficiently metabolized by mammalian livers (11). Breakdown products, or 'metabolites,' of permethrin are quickly excreted and do not persist significantly in body tissues (8). There are no methods for identifying metabolites in the urine (11). When permethrin is administered orally to rats, it is rapidly metabolized and almost completely eliminated from the body in a few days."

quote timatkn: "

quote PINETREE: "I wonder if deet would be better to use on like hats for BWCA use? I don't know about like permethrin washing off a hat and getting to the eyes? A little safer deet may be for the hat part. Somebody else I am sure knows more?
I do use permetrin on pants for deer ticks in central Minnesota.


."

I have read Deet is only affective when applied to your skin has no affect when applied to clothing unlike permethrin.


T"

and deet melts nylon and plastic. be careful.

Yes Deet it will melt nylon and waterproofing off your tent. I found out first hand.

im in the habit of permethrining tent entries now. the stuff works. ask kiporby. :)

quote kanoes: "im in the habit of permethrining tent entries now. the stuff works. ask kiporby. :)"

Do you soak the tents or just spray the netting?

quote luft: "

quote kanoes: "im in the habit of permethrining tent entries now. the stuff works. ask kiporby. :)"

Do you soak the tents or just spray the netting?"

Somebody knows better than I,but before doing a whole tent I would do a small piece of waterproof nylon and check effects,also do you want to be surrounded by permethron? I use it on pants for deer ticks etc. and it helps. They still climb on to the pants,but it looks like they really don't like it,they walk a little different on it.

I'm always amazed at the amount of misinformation in these permethrin threads. I have used it for years on clothing and tents (we spray the entire interior and netting) . It is VERY safe when dry. It will irritate the skin if the liquid gets on your skin, but once it dries it does not irritate, even if it gets wet. It is safe to breath through. It does not damage the tent material. It BOTH repels AND kills insects, INCLUDING black flies. Even if you use a head net, treat the head net and the bugs will not crawl all over it. Just try it and don't worry.

I'm one of those that dilute my own and soak everything. Hammock, tarps, tent, and clothes. Best stuff going.

quote luft: "

quote kanoes: "im in the habit of permethrining tent entries now. the stuff works. ask kiporby. :)"

Do you soak the tents or just spray the netting?"

i spray the door/netting and a foot or more beyond the zippers, on the tent body...especially the bottom of the door extending under the floor.