I camped at a site on Monday night in Fish Stake Narrows at a site that had a lot of blow down damage from last months storm. Much of the clean up had been done with a chain saw. Thoughts?

Could it have been a 2-man buck saw and not a chainsaw? It's almost impossible to tell from the cut wood.

I've never used a 2-man buck saw, so I have no idea what the sawdust looks like. The second picture of the small wood chips on the ground certainly looks like the leavings from a chainsaw?

I guess I don't have a problem with the forest service using chain saws in blowdown areas. They can't put enough bodies out there to clean things up with bucksaws.

That was cut with a chain saw. You can tell by the first picture. The chain touched the tree, bounced once than cut. You can see where the saw touched the first time, it left a 1/4 inch cut next to the end of the log. Looking at the chips on the ground the chain was sharp too.

quote Sides: "That was cut with a chain saw. You can tell by the first picture. The chain touched the tree, bounced once than cut. You can see where the saw touched the first time, it left a 1/4 inch cut next to the end of the log. Looking at the chips on the ground the chain was sharp too."

Good detective work, Sherlock!

I have no problem if the Forest Service uses chain saws to clean up blow-downs.

Up in Maine a few years back, a camper across the lake in National Forest land had paddled in with a chain saw. I still come close to having a stroke every time I think about it. Ugh! Especially when he used it at 11:00 PM!

I have no issue with FS using chain saws to maintain the campsites. I think that is a reasonable use and is certainly necessary to the administration of the area. It is just not reasonable to expect USFS to use non-powered saws given the man power, funds, and time available to achieve what they need to get done.

My understanding has always been that there was no chainsaw use in the BWCA, but I may be wrong.

I was recently in the remote area south of Lac La Croix after the recent blowdown and was thinking about this. The float plane noise coming from miles away on LLC was quite loud and pretty intrusive into the wilderness experience. I was thinking how I would prefer to deal with a chainsaw clearing a portage from one lake over for maybe 30 minutes the one day a year I was there, rather than the float plane noise that was constant and occurring every day of the season.

quote Sides: "That was cut with a chain saw. You can tell by the first picture. The chain touched the tree, bounced once than cut. You can see where the saw touched the first time, it left a 1/4 inch cut next to the end of the log. Looking at the chips on the ground the chain was sharp too. "

That is why I took this particular picture, the saw kerf is clearly a chain saw. I didn't say that I was against this, especially on the boarder where there are motor boats close by. Heck, two boats even blew through the south side is Coleman Island on Tuesday. Unfortunately I was too far away to get a picture.

2 1/2 weeks after the 99' blow down-- there was evidence/sound of chainsaws all the way from Seagull into SAK.
I think all it takes is for some high brass to just sign off on it...
I don't know about the most recent need to use chainsaws from July-- but if they hadn't used chainsaws in 99'-- they would have been clearing portages/sites for years with hand powered tools.

They use chainsaws often for trail clearing and fighting fires all the time.
Can you imagine how much elbow grease they would need to clear trails with hand saws after a storm? Impossible.

I think chainsaws are fine as long as they are used in the winter to go from campsite to campsite on a snowmobile in order to cut down the dead trees at campsites.

With the amount of work they need to do and the limited manpower they need to be able to use chain saws sometimes.
Having used a 2 man cross cut a lot in my youth I am a big fan of chain saws.

Their maintenance budget is probably the smallest in 60 years or so. The dry years they are getting, especially out west, is taking over 50% of their budget now to fight fires. Never used to be that way.

quote tumblehome: "They use chainsaws often for trail clearing and fighting fires all the time.
Can you imagine how much elbow grease they would need to clear trails with hand saws after a storm? Impossible."

I guess that is why the POW WOW TRAIL is still not cleared. Because they don't use chain saws to clear trails.
Time to educate you folks. Call the district rangers office and ask...!

quote walleye_hunter: "I think chainsaws are fine as long as they are used in the winter to go from campsite to campsite on a snowmobile in order to cut down the dead trees at campsites."

They're all dead in winter...lol

They chainsaws should be used on a limited basis in limited emergencies and when situations comes overwhelming. I will let the forest service decide that as long as it is rational.

No they should not run around in the winter doing it on snowmobiles. Absolutely not.

The only chainsaws that should ever be brought into the BWCA should be canned and carried in on the back of snowmobiles.....and any illegal mining activity should be reported with a call utilizing a new cell phone tower. There, that should about cover it!!

quote 254Bow: "The only chainsaws that should ever be brought into the BWCA should be canned and carried in on the back of snowmobiles.....and any illegal mining activity should be reported with a call utilizing a new cell phone tower. There, that should about cover it!! "

What about guns, dogs and bears?

quote oldgentleman: "

quote 254Bow: "The only chainsaws that should ever be brought into the BWCA should be canned and carried in on the back of snowmobiles.....and any illegal mining activity should be reported with a call utilizing a new cell phone tower. There, that should about cover it!! "

What about guns, dogs and bears?"

good points...As long as the dogs and bears practice good portage etiquette and dont't burn their trash, they should be allowed to carry guns.

quote 254Bow: "

quote oldgentleman: "

quote 254Bow: "The only chainsaws that should ever be brought into the BWCA should be canned and carried in on the back of snowmobiles.....and any illegal mining activity should be reported with a call utilizing a new cell phone tower. There, that should about cover it!! "

What about guns, dogs and bears?"

good points...As long as the dogs and bears practice good portage etiquette and dont't burn their trash, they should be allowed to carry guns."

HaHaHa !

In a "real wilderness" shouldn't the trees be left to rot or burn, rather than cleaned up? Ironic where we all draw the line at how we define wilderness and what's allowed or not allowed..

Personally, when I was on the portage crew we used two man crosscuts and I always thought to myself the USFS could do this a lot cheaper and quicker if they used chainsaws. Rather than committing 6 people for 8 days straight you could send two guys in with a chainsaw and be done in a day or two.

Okay, so I am really confused on this subject....

2old4U who worked on the portage crew for the USFS says they do not use chainsaws, opting for 2-man buck saws to clear trails. Someone else cited the Pow Wow Trail not being cleared as evidence too.

Others, like Tumblehome say the USFS uses chainsaws all the time to clear trails after fires and storms.

The USFS manages more than just the BWCA. Specifically within the BWCA, does the USFS use chainsaws?

I've been in the thick of forest fires and they have generators, chainsaws and anything they can use to slow the fires. I dunno if this counts for trail clearing but yes, they use internal combustion engines for wilderness work.

I'm a huge wilderness conservationist but I have no qualms about a trail clearing crew using a chain saw to make my portage path 'easy' for me to navigate.

quote LuvMyBell: "Okay, so I am really confused on this subject....


2old4U who worked on the portage crew for the USFS says they do not use chainsaws, opting for 2-man buck saws to clear trails. Someone else cited the Pow Wow Trail not being cleared as evidence too.


Others, like Tumblehome say the USFS uses chainsaws all the time to clear trails after fires and storms.


The USFS manages more than just the BWCA. Specifically within the BWCA, does the USFS use chainsaws?"

When a big enough event transpires-- from what I understand, someone high in the USFS signs off on using motorized/gas engines in the BW for overall help to the general use. Most portage clearing folks (esp not paid) who work in the early spring or part time may never experience a "9/11" event in the woods-- and then can get by with hand tools.
I can tell you firsthand on 7/21/99 nearly 2.5 weeks after the blow-- that without professional sawyers--- many ares of the BW would have driven 95% of people to stay on entry lakes as the portages were impassable for those not coming out and most campsites on entry lakes near the greatest damage were compromised as well.

quote 2old4U: "In a "real wilderness" shouldn't the trees be left to rot or burn, rather than cleaned up? Ironic where we all draw the line at how we define wilderness and what's allowed or not allowed..


Personally, when I was on the portage crew we used two man crosscuts and I always thought to myself the USFS could do this a lot cheaper and quicker if they used chainsaws. Rather than committing 6 people for 8 days straight you could send two guys in with a chainsaw and be done in a day or two."

In my opinion, it's about the noise more than anything. Unless it's an emergency situation, I prefer chainsaws not be used. It takes a lot of effort and dedication to go on a wilderness trip, and it would be a bummer to show up at a lake expecting the peace and quiet and have it be the day or two that they were sending chainsaws through the area for maintenance purposes.
The manual clearing is a high price to pay, but has an important payoff for the experience of the area. I'm thankful to anyone who has done that work.

quote LuvMyBell: "Okay, so I am really confused on this subject....


2old4U who worked on the portage crew for the USFS says they do not use chainsaws, opting for 2-man buck saws to clear trails. Someone else cited the Pow Wow Trail not being cleared as evidence too.


Others, like Tumblehome say the USFS uses chainsaws all the time to clear trails after fires and storms.


The USFS manages more than just the BWCA. Specifically within the BWCA, does the USFS use chainsaws?"

To do maintenance and trail clearing -the answer is no.
Firefighting -all bets are off.

quote caribouluvr: "

quote 2old4U: "In a "real wilderness" shouldn't the trees be left to rot or burn, rather than cleaned up? Ironic where we all draw the line at how we define wilderness and what's allowed or not allowed..



Personally, when I was on the portage crew we used two man crosscuts and I always thought to myself the USFS could do this a lot cheaper and quicker if they used chainsaws. Rather than committing 6 people for 8 days straight you could send two guys in with a chainsaw and be done in a day or two."

In my opinion, it's about the noise more than anything. Unless it's an emergency situation, I prefer chainsaws not be used. It takes a lot of effort and dedication to go on a wilderness trip, and it would be a bummer to show up at a lake expecting the peace and quiet and have it be the day or two that they were sending chainsaws through the area for maintenance purposes.
The manual clearing is a high price to pay, but has an important payoff for the experience of the area. I'm thankful to anyone who has done that work."

If there are chainsaws buzzing on the lake you just arrived on you can probably thank them for your ability to even arrive on the lake. I'm sure they only use chainsaws when the job is too overwhelming for hand saws.

quote LuvMyBell: "Okay, so I am really confused on this subject....


2old4U who worked on the portage crew for the USFS says they do not use chainsaws, opting for 2-man buck saws to clear trails. Someone else cited the Pow Wow Trail not being cleared as evidence too.


Others, like Tumblehome say the USFS uses chainsaws all the time to clear trails after fires and storms.


The USFS manages more than just the BWCA. Specifically within the BWCA, does the USFS use chainsaws?"

I didn't say the USFS doesn't use chainsaws; I said on the portage crew we didn't, but it seemed to me we would've been more productive had we.

I know after the 99 storm they used chainsaws extensively...in fact it was one of those crews that found my canoe abandoned on the Wonder Lake portage and brought it back to the Alton portage.

quote mr.barley: "

quote caribouluvr: "

quote 2old4U: "In a "real wilderness" shouldn't the trees be left to rot or burn, rather than cleaned up? Ironic where we all draw the line at how we define wilderness and what's allowed or not allowed..



Personally, when I was on the portage crew we used two man crosscuts and I always thought to myself the USFS could do this a lot cheaper and quicker if they used chainsaws. Rather than committing 6 people for 8 days straight you could send two guys in with a chainsaw and be done in a day or two."

In my opinion, it's about the noise more than anything. Unless it's an emergency situation, I prefer chainsaws not be used. It takes a lot of effort and dedication to go on a wilderness trip, and it would be a bummer to show up at a lake expecting the peace and quiet and have it be the day or two that they were sending chainsaws through the area for maintenance purposes.
The manual clearing is a high price to pay, but has an important payoff for the experience of the area. I'm thankful to anyone who has done that work."

If there are chainsaws buzzing on the lake you just arrived on you can probably thank them for your ability to even arrive on the lake. I'm sure they only use chainsaws when the job is too overwhelming for hand saws. "

+1-- if the USFS is using chainsaws (and sometime seaplane) they need to do it-- otherwise likely not going past a entry lake.. (from experience).

quote LuvMyBell: "Okay, so I am really confused on this subject....


2old4U who worked on the portage crew for the USFS says they do not use chainsaws, opting for 2-man buck saws to clear trails. Someone else cited the Pow Wow Trail not being cleared as evidence too.


Others, like Tumblehome say the USFS uses chainsaws all the time to clear trails after fires and storms.


The USFS manages more than just the BWCA. Specifically within the BWCA, does the USFS use chainsaws?"

The thing to keep in mind is fire fighting is a different division of USFS. They will use anything they have to, to stop a fire. That is once they decide to fight the fire. Sometimes they will let them burn themselves out. Sometimes that backfires on them, and the fires get big. State politics can interfere with fighting a fire, they hate fighting fires in California. If the aftermath of a fire or storm event is big enough, they will use chainsaws to aid the cleanup. In the day to day running of the BWCA they will not.

Commonly understood policies of wilderness management:

*No roads or timber harvest (with rare exceptions).
*No motorized use except for emergencies or when necessary for purposes of administering wilderness.
*No mechanized transport, such as mountain bikes, game carts, etc.
*Area is managed for primitive and unconfined recreation with outstanding opportunities for solitude.
*Area is managed for the free play of natural processes.
*Naturally occurring fire is allowed, as much as possible, to play its natural role.
*Complex congressional guidelines provide for existing levels of grazing and necessary range improvements. However, grazing cannot be increased following wilderness designation."


It is the second bullet point that causes confusion. What is a "Necessary purpose" that is up for debate. The Wilderness Act allows their use for the management of the wilderness. USFS goes out of their way to not use them.



USFS Wilderness

The thing to keep in mind is fire fighting is a different division of USFS. They will use anything they have to, to stop a fire. That is once they decide to fight the fire. Sometimes they will let them burn themselves out. Sometimes that backfires on them, and the fires get big. State politics can interfere with fighting a fire, they hate fighting fires in California. If the aftermath of a fire or storm event is big enough, they will use chainsaws to aid the cleanup. In the day to day running of the BWCA they will not.



"

Forestry firefighting crews are made up of forest service employees that are supervisors or field crew doing maintenance and inventory on regular duty. Many switch to firefighting when necessary.
Same rules as others,just exemptions or rules waived by the proper Supervisors etc for wilderness.
Much of the same budget,that is what is bad now,firefighting in recent years is consuming over 50% of the USFS budget. Out west is burning up and some areas they determined by using various methods it is as drier now in anytime in the last 500 years at least.

quote PINETREE: "


The thing to keep in mind is fire fighting is a different division of USFS. They will use anything they have to, to stop a fire. That is once they decide to fight the fire. Sometimes they will let them burn themselves out. Sometimes that backfires on them, and the fires get big. State politics can interfere with fighting a fire, they hate fighting fires in California. If the aftermath of a fire or storm event is big enough, they will use chainsaws to aid the cleanup. In the day to day running of the BWCA they will not.



Forestry firefighting crews are made up of forest service employees that are supervisors or field crew doing maintenance and inventory on regular duty. Many switch to firefighting when necessary.
Same rules as others,just exemptions or rules waived by the proper Supervisors etc for wilderness.
Much of the same budget,that is what is bad now,firefighting in recent years is consuming over 50% of the USFS budget. Out west is burning up and some areas they determined by using various methods it is as drier now in anytime in the last 500 years at least."

"

My buddies son is a firefighter for USFS, that is all he does. He is stationed in Minnesota, but fights fires in 49 of our 50 states. He does not go to California. The ones that switch to fire crews are only support, not on the front line. The fire fighters train year round. They are certified fire fighters. The "smoke jumpers" are disappearing. They now repel out of helicopters, it is a lot safer. They are not going to throw a maintenance worker out of a helicopter.

The problem out west and in California, is political correctness. People used be able to go out on federal land and collect firewood to take home. Now they can't, it's illegal. Because the fires have too much fuel.

After the blowdown in 1999, the District Ranger authorized the use of chainsaws to fell the trees that were a potential hazard to USFS crews and visitors. However, it was not a blanket authorization to cut all trees effected by the blowdown, just those that were to hazardous to drop with the cross cut saw. I imagine something similar was in place following these latest blowdowns this summer.

quote CrookedPaddler1: "After the blowdown in 1999, the District Ranger authorized the use of chainsaws to fell the trees that were a potential hazard to USFS crews and visitors. However, it was not a blanket authorization to cut all trees effected by the blowdown, just those that were to hazardous to drop with the cross cut saw. I imagine something similar was in place following these latest blowdowns this summer."

I don't want to argue...but I don't think the District Ranger has that authority. That would have to come from the Forest Supervisor... Brenda Halter at this point.
Org chart...sort of.

A good read... HERE.
And one other I found... HERE.

quote Doughboy12: "A good read... HERE.
And one other I found... HERE. "

The first one is a very good read, thank you.

quote Doughboy12: "A good read... HERE.
And one other I found... HERE. "

When these work crews are out in the wilderness with a job to get done, I'm sure they follow each and every one of these policy's to the letter.

Like most supervisors as long as the job gets done and the paperwork is in.........

quote MHS67: "

quote Doughboy12: "A good read... HERE.
And one other I found... HERE. "

When these work crews are out in the wilderness with a job to get done, I'm sure they follow each and every one of these policy's to the letter.


Like most supervisors as long as the job gets done and the paperwork is in........."

I would bet money on it. The jobs are hard to get, the pension is too good. It's not worth loosing your job over. Violating policy will get you terminated quickly.

quote Sides: "

quote MHS67: "

quote Doughboy12: "A good read... HERE.
And one other I found... HERE. "

When these work crews are out in the wilderness with a job to get done, I'm sure they follow each and every one of these policy's to the letter.



Like most supervisors as long as the job gets done and the paperwork is in........."

I would bet money on it. The jobs are hard to get, the pension is too good. It's not worth loosing your job over. Violating policy will get you terminated quickly.



"

Your FS must be different back there.

Have you ever tried to fire a state or federal employee? Not easy.

As a government employee, I can tell you the easiest way to get fired. It is violating policy. That brings heat on the higher up's. Than the $hit rolls down hill. You can get away with a lot, but not violating policy. It really isn't worth it. And you are correct, it is hard to fire someone.

quote MHS67: "

quote Sides: "

quote MHS67: "

quote Doughboy12: "A good read... HERE.
And one other I found... HERE. "

When these work crews are out in the wilderness with a job to get done, I'm sure they follow each and every one of these policy's to the letter.

Like most supervisors as long as the job gets done and the paperwork is in........."

I would bet money on it. The jobs are hard to get, the pension is too good. It's not worth loosing your job over. Violating policy will get you terminated quickly. "

Your FS must be different back there.

Have you ever tried to fire a state or federal employee? Not easy."

Its not easy,but it varies by Department,I have seen it from a certain Minnesotastate agency different times. several times,it depends on what the policy or violation is about. Some things are just a no no.

.....

BWCA wilderness managers reported:

(click image for better image)



...............................................

Slide from here:

https://www.wilderness.net/NWPS/documents/FS/MR_Use_of_Traditional_Tools-Skills.ppt

....

I understand the whole concept of unmotorized in the wilderness, but the way I see it, it's our money they are spending, and I would prefer they do all storm cleanup and portage clearing as efficiently as possible and use the money saved to set aside more land.

In Wabakimi, I think they are doing all the work with volunteers and using chain saws. I can run a chain saw all day, but a bucksaw, not so much. Although, I guy would have some serious pipes after running a bucksaw all day every day.

That said, I split all my wood by hand unless the neighbor has mercy on me. It's a part of my yearly exercise routine.

Inside Wabakimi PP I believe the MNR uses paid crews to maintain trails/campsites. On the edges of the park, the Wabakimi Project has been re-establishing many traditional portages and has been grooming larger campsites, i.e. those big enough for two tents.

quote IceColdGold: "I understand the whole concept of unmotorized in the wilderness, but the way I see it, it's our money they are spending, and I would prefer they do all storm cleanup and portage clearing as efficiently as possible and use the money saved to set aside more land.
"

All things told, the 1999 results showed chainsaws and crosscuts were equally efficient.

Given that, and given your post, your choice should be to clear logs with crosscuts not chainsaws. Why? Because ...

1) chainsaws are more expensive, more expensive to operate, and insurance rates are more than 4 times higher (slide 8 in the above link)

2) chainsaw accident rate is more than 18 times higher and injuryies are 120 times more sever (slide 7)

I've cleared trails w usfs in the bwca as a volunteer last fall and was specifically told no chainsaws for trail clearing. We carried one of their two-mans. This is news to me.

What tree diameters did you guys end up clearing?

When I clear a trail, I first go through with an 18" D-handled pull saw and clear everything under about 14" diam. If there are bigger logs, I'll scope and plan the cuts, then go back another day with my traditional 6ft lance and raker crosscut.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_248694-63731-RS+7500D_0__

I would prefer to use an electric chain saw. Saves much liquid fuel. Only problem is in handling that much cord.

On a somewhat unrelated note. Check out a song called "crosscut saw" by Freddie King.

Twice I've heard chainsaws in the BWCAW, once in July 2003 behind a campsite in the east bay of Polly near the Phoebe River, I couldn't see what they were cutting, and once on the north side near the center of Ensign Lake in September, 1989, sounded like two of them. I would prefer not to hear them myself.

quote mgosh: "What tree diameters did you guys end up clearing?

When I clear a trail, I first go through with an 18" D-handled pull saw and clear everything under about 14" diam. If there are bigger logs, I'll scope and plan the cuts, then go back another day with my traditional 6ft lance and raker crosscut.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_248694-63731-RS+7500D_0__



"

Mgosh- sounds like you work for usfs? Maybe you could clear this up?

We cleared bigger logs- up to 24"+. Had to do several cuts in some to move them.

quote Sides: "

quote PINETREE: "



The thing to keep in mind is fire fighting is a different division of USFS. They will use anything they have to, to stop a fire. That is once they decide to fight the fire. Sometimes they will let them burn themselves out. Sometimes that backfires on them, and the fires get big. State politics can interfere with fighting a fire, they hate fighting fires in California. If the aftermath of a fire or storm event is big enough, they will use chainsaws to aid the cleanup. In the day to day running of the BWCA they will not.



Forestry firefighting crews are made up of forest service employees that are supervisors or field crew doing maintenance and inventory on regular duty. Many switch to firefighting when necessary.
Same rules as others,just exemptions or rules waived by the proper Supervisors etc for wilderness.
Much of the same budget,that is what is bad now,firefighting in recent years is consuming over 50% of the USFS budget. Out west is burning up and some areas they determined by using various methods it is as drier now in anytime in the last 500 years at least."

"

My buddies son is a firefighter for USFS, that is all he does. He is stationed in Minnesota, but fights fires in 49 of our 50 states. He does not go to California. The ones that switch to fire crews are only support, not on the front line. The fire fighters train year round. They are certified fire fighters. The "smoke jumpers" are disappearing. They now repel out of helicopters, it is a lot safer. They are not going to throw a maintenance worker out of a helicopter.


The problem out west and in California, is political correctness. People used be able to go out on federal land and collect firewood to take home. Now they can't, it's illegal. Because the fires have too much fuel.


"

Sides, I must have missed this in 2014. We have always been able to cut firewood on federal lands. The only time in my recollection they cut it off is when fire danger is to high. This year you don't even have to pay for a permit. There is so many dead pine trees that the Forest Service isn't charging for the permits. They figure 75 to 80% of the Ponderosa pine trees are dead.

quote Doughboy12: "

quote CrookedPaddler1: "After the blowdown in 1999, the District Ranger authorized the use of chainsaws to fell the trees that were a potential hazard to USFS crews and visitors. However, it was not a blanket authorization to cut all trees effected by the blowdown, just those that were to hazardous to drop with the cross cut saw. I imagine something similar was in place following these latest blowdowns this summer."

I don't want to argue...but I don't think the District Ranger has that authority. That would have to come from the Forest Supervisor... Brenda Halter at this point.
Org chart...sort of. "

Correct:
It is the Forest Supervisor that approves chainsaw work, helicopter or Beaver/float plane use, and so on in the BW. As far as I remember, mechanical use can only be authorized due to some emergency, IE: Wildfire, Blow Down such as in 1999, or another emergency, yet to be named.
At the time of the Pagami fire the Forest Sup was Jim Sanders.

I worked for the Tofte Ranger District for 3 years, I can tell you, my crew would never think of running a chainsaw in the wilderness with out the proper authorization. As others have stated, violating policy is the quickest way to get you fired, and many employees are seasonal. Therefore it is easier to fire a seasonal employee, than a full time employee.
But even full time employees get fired, or are strongly encouraged to voluntarily seek a new horizon - path/employment.

Linden

I don't believe it was chainsaws at all, but rather Beavers on steroids that cut those trees .

I watched a few videos on various cross cut saws. Fairly impressive. I had no idea manual saws could cut logs in the 12" to 16" range so quickly. For clearing portages, etc, I can see where they would work really well. Your only making a couple of cuts on each tree to clear the trail, and much lighter to carry over longer distances.

I have always thought of having a couple of cross cut saws on my list to have around if all goes bad, and after seeing what they can do, I think a guy might actually be able to cut a winters worth of wood for a small cabin with one.

quote mr.barley: "I guess I don't have a problem with the forest service using chain saws in blowdown areas. They can't put enough bodies out there to clean things up with bucksaws."

+1

quote Basspro69: "I don't believe it was chainsaws at all, but rather Beavers on steroids that cut those trees ."

That was MY opinion also, but I was afraid to be the first to voice my suspicions ;)

So I wonder how this happens..

This is the 2nd or 3rd time an old post had been revived with a new post that doesn't make sense in broken English from a guest poster linking to a website that barely qualifies as the English language...

quote Grizzlyman: "So I wonder how this happens..


This is the 2nd or 3rd time an old post had been revived with a new post that doesn't make sense in broken English from a guest poster linking to a website that barely qualifies as the English language..."

Chainsaw salesman. lol

no issue, thankful portages are open after a big blowdown.

quote Grizzlyman: "So I wonder how this happens..


This is the 2nd or 3rd time an old post had been revived with a new post that doesn't make sense in broken English from a guest poster linking to a website that barely qualifies as the English language..."

trolls or drunk ramblings...

I could tolerate the chainsaw noise if it made the area safer or passable, which kit most likely did. Last fall I was on Cherokee and the DNR flew in a boat and spent several days running around the lake doing fish surveys. That was way more annoying than a chainsaw running for an hour or two. I also wouldn't classify a fish survey as an emergency or necessity. It certainly wasn't important enough to land a float plane on the lake and having a motorized boat. They could have at least waited until after September when the lake wasn't full of paddlers.

quote Dances with Sheep: "

quote Grizzlyman: "So I wonder how this happens..



This is the 2nd or 3rd time an old post had been revived with a new post that doesn't make sense in broken English from a guest poster linking to a website that barely qualifies as the English language..."

trolls or drunk ramblings..."

I'm just wondering- that's all...it's clearly a foreigner trying to sell stuff. I just wonder why and how, of all the possible forums, they find this one; and then also how do they get and find these old posts and bring them back. I assume it's just a search on "chainsaw"...but it's just interesting to me that they think this will actually work. Lol.

It's called forum spam. Often it is not just to sell stuff to us but to use bwca.com's good google ranking to rub off on their site. I moderate a different highly ranked site and we delete such posts and ban the users immediately when this happens. Fortunately, our software allows users to report posts and the mods to take action with few clicks. We don't get much and they don't last long. Many of them don't even bother to make it look legit. Others add it to a thread that has some relationship such as this one.

Wilderness Rangers are only authorized chainsaw use from the Forest Supervisor.
Rarely do Wilderness Rangers get chainsaw authorization, except for extreme circumstances. The Blowdonw of 1999, the blowdown in Lady Boot Bay (2013 I believe) and the Blowdown of 2016, and, of course, wildland fires.
As far as regular maintenance goes, non-motorized tools only.
Cross-cut saw and axe for tree clearing and falling. Shovel for fire pits and latrines.
The Quetico, however, uses chainsaw because they only have one crew for the entire Quetico. They need to get their routes 'open' with as few as four people in one season.
The Superior has a handful of crews in each district for the BW. More or less, depending on their budget. With a lot of help from volunteers.

Didn't read the entire post as I feel the forest service should use sound reasoning when using chainsaws. I also agree that the BWCA should be kept as natural as humanly possible. I always enjoy our trips and usually try to get as far away from the main routes and people as possible. my question is do you all feel this is actually a wilderness? from my prospective if you move only on established routes camp only where a fire pit and restroom is provided to you and have a map that yes sometimes doesn't look quite right however are good enough that only Ray Charles could miss read them is this really a wilderness? not trying to start a fight here just my 0.2

Noise-wise for what it's worth, there are battery-powered chainsaws that do fine work and are very quiet.

I have no principled objections to the use of chainsaws to maintain sites and portages. I do understand and even share the concern that a trip could be interrupted or possibly even ruined by heavy chainsaw use in the area, but I'd personally get over it quite easily. My primary concern is safety: being so far into the wilderness is not somewhere I'd want to be with a chainsaw-related injury.

after the 99 blowdown , i know the portage from kingfisher to ogish would have took quite awhile with out chainsaws , some very large trees/logs along that portage. there are exceptions to every rule ;)

Not sure about this chainsaw issue but I remember being checked for a BWCA permit in the Fish Stake Narrows once by Motorized officals. Don't remember if they were state or federal. We asked how they were able to skirt the regulations on motorboat use and I think they laughed and asked how they were supposed to catch the law breakers in a canoe or something to that effect. This was back around 1990/1991.