In all of my trips to the Bdub, I've never once ran into any disrespectful, rude or mean people. I usually hang out off the beaten path, so I don't generally have many opportunities to locate a prick. However, I've read on this forum about people vandalizing occupied campsites while the campers were gone, yelling at and verbally abusing other campers and altercations on portage trails, etc... I find I so hard to believe things like this happen in such a tranquil and spiritual place. So my question to all of you is: Have you ever had an encounter with any rude and/or disrespectful people on your trips to the BWCA? And if so, how did you handle it? Please share.

Thanks,
Tone

So far, nothing but salt of the earth folks - knocking on wood! I get away from entry lakes, and avoid holiday weekends, which I suspect helps in that regard.

I've run into a few clueless people that lead them to being somewhat rude by BWCA standards (blocking portages is the main offense) but thats about the extent of it. Fortunately the courteous and friendly people have more than made up for the clueless/rude people I've encountered.

Once I asked an older guy what the time was and he went off on me how he's so sick of people asking him what time it was. I just kept paddling. It kind of wrecked my mood for a moment or two.
Oh well. You never know. Maybe 20 people had already asked him that day

Beyond trash left in a camp site or a latrine left in unpleasant condition, generally good friendly socialable people or usually much better than that.

Only once on Caribou. A group of 4 incredibly drunk men literally fighting into the night. They left their campsite totally trashed when they left the next day.

I had somebody bury fireworks in the ashes of the fire grate. It was a heck of a surprise when I lit the fire that first night after the coals got good and hot. It blew burning embers into the surrounding woods. I was just lucky that nothing caught fire.

Only people on portages once in a while. As I pass them without stopping I will say hi or good afternoon and they don't respond. Are you kidding me? How much effort does it take to be civil.

Only once. Said "good morning" to a young couple whom we passed by on a narrow lake. Cold stone silence. It took me a moment to notice that they both had earphones stuck in their ears. Kids gotta have their music. They never even heard me.

Somewhat rude but mostly odd.
I was with a group of four stopping on an island to have lunch when two men paddle up to us and started conversation. We were polite but then they paddled to the other side of the point and started to unpack for lunch right next to us. I mean ten feet away! We were flabbergasted for sure and a bit irritated. Since we had just started to pull out our food we simply packed back up and found another spot. This happened on Little Jean in Quetico and they came up from Yeh, I think.

quote Savage Voyageur: "Only people on portages once in a while. As I pass them without stopping I will say hi or good afternoon and they don't respond. Are you kidding me? How much effort does it take to be civil. "

Yeah, we've run into this more than a few times spread over 38 years. Really awkward if they're double portaging like us and we run into them a second time. Used to irritate me; now I just shrug it off and continue on my way...
AdamX

quote Hub: "I had somebody bury fireworks in the ashes of the fire grate. It was a heck of a surprise when I lit the fire that first night after the coals got good and hot. It blew burning embers into the surrounding woods. I was just lucky that nothing caught fire. "

Who does that? I found a bunch of shell casings from a .38 in the ashes one time. I'm guessing they forgot about the 150 feet/yards(?) from a campsite rule.

quote Savage Voyageur: "Only people on portages once in a while. As I pass them without stopping I will say hi or good afternoon and they don't respond. Are you kidding me? How much effort does it take to be civil. "

Not that often, but I'm the guy that says "Hi" to everyone on the trail. I've noticed as the years pass, less people reciprocate. I figure it's a "City" thing, but maybe it's just 'cause I'm getting uglier and scarier as I age (LOL)?

Never directly meet a jerk in the park but have often seen their leftovers along a portage or in camp. Its always amazing the distance some people will travel just to trash a site or hack up a tree with an axe.

I will admit, sheepishly that we have probably been a little to loud around the fire at night once or twice. 99% of the time you would never know we were across the lake. We talk quietly while fishing and keep it down in camp. Unfortunately, on occasion our discussions may have gotten away from us and infringed on others trips.

If you were on Disappointment last May one Sunday night, SORRY!!!

Just Boy Scout leaders a couple of times. Jerky dads. They break the rules traveling in packs of thirty and block up portages and never bother to ask if you want to pass. Not even friendly because they don't know what they are doing and are stressed. No big deal. Pick a rock, have a snack and wait for the caravan to clear. And snicker. I remember one dad who was portaging a five gallon collapsible water container, not the easiest thing to lug around, and he kept telling his son to drink water, you have to drink water. Like he was going to die of thirst, from a half day of paddling and walking in the woods. I'll never forget the poor kid in that falsetto voice I love that sounds like a member of the Vienna Boys Choir that just got kicked in the stones say, ' But I'm not thirsty!'
Classic. We used that one for a couple days.

By far, most interactions have been quite nice. A few people may not say hello. Perhaps they are lost in their thoughts. A few might not be perfect on portage trail etiquette. Maybe they just don't know better or are flustered on their first trip. At least as many offer to carry a pack on their return trip. I can think of only two times that I felt that drunk people at a nearby campsite impacted my enjoyment. And we did take some pleasure when they fell asleep in a drunken stupor and missed the northern lights!

But basically, I like the folks we've met up there.

No, I haven't.

quote ozarkpaddler: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "Only people on portages once in a while. As I pass them without stopping I will say hi or good afternoon and they don't respond. Are you kidding me? How much effort does it take to be civil. "

Not that often, but I'm the guy that says "Hi" to everyone on the trail. I've noticed as the years pass, less people reciprocate. I figure it's a "City" thing, but maybe it's just 'cause I'm getting uglier and scarier as I age (LOL)?"

WHATS THAT YOU SAY? I DON"T WEAR MY HEARING AIDS IN THERE, OZARK. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SPEAK UP!

Pretty much like others, no really negative encounters. Most are friendly. I kinda get the I am in the wilderness alone so I don't really see you so I will not acknowledge you are there thing. Okay, kinda.

quote anthonyp007: "

quote Hub: "I had somebody bury fireworks in the ashes of the fire grate. It was a heck of a surprise when I lit the fire that first night after the coals got good and hot. It blew burning embers into the surrounding woods. I was just lucky that nothing caught fire. "

Who does that? I found a bunch of shell casings from a .38 in the ashes one time. I'm guessing they forgot about the 150 feet/yards(?) from a campsite rule. "

Funny you should say that. I was paddling through knife and some kids were shooting a stump at their campsite... the one closest to the bonnie lake portage. I thought for sure I was going to have to use some responder skills that night. There were rounds fired over the water. I too found 38 special casings on portages when I came back through.

I'm greatful for good experiances for the most part. Most people are great...

Last year while we were on a day trip to Heritage Lake - when we came back to our campsite on Con Island (Shell Lake - northern site) - we came across a small group fishing on our campsite - which was OBVIOUSLY occupied by the... tent, and CCS rainbow tarp set up. Was kind of taken aback by it, and when we pulled up to "home" they didn't immediately leave.

They were nice, but still... it struck me as odd.

quote Whatsit: "Once I asked an older guy what the time was and he went off on me how he's so sick of people asking him what time it was. I just kept paddling. It kind of wrecked my mood for a moment or two.
Oh well. You never know. Maybe 20 people had already asked him that day"

Ya know what would be funny is if that guy posted on here and said "Yea this one time I was trying to enjoy my trip and this guy asked me what time it was"

JK

T

I've only encountered great folks. Perfectly happy not to add a story!

99.9% of the people I have encountered are awesome and friendly. Occasionally I have run into clueless people but usually you can tell it is their first trip, I was pretty clueless my first trip too.

But one time I ran into the biggest a$$ hole ever out in Quetico. Just came right into my site walked right through our fire area while we were enjoying coffee, broke out lunch a few feet from our fire pit. Other members of the group were duece'ing near our tent... I've posted this before.

Jerk in camp

no jerky people for me, but could tell they had been in the area: zip ties all over the portages and campsites, lots of tin foil in fire grate, partially burned logs (not split) strewn around camp; fish guts left in the brush just off the campsite, and on shore. taking the time to clean up all this crap detracts from my trip enjoyment and that really irks me!

quote boonie: "

quote ozarkpaddler: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "Only people on portages once in a while. As I pass them without stopping I will say hi or good afternoon and they don't respond. Are you kidding me? How much effort does it take to be civil. "

Not that often, but I'm the guy that says "Hi" to everyone on the trail. I've noticed as the years pass, less people reciprocate. I figure it's a "City" thing, but maybe it's just 'cause I'm getting uglier and scarier as I age (LOL)?"

WHATS THAT YOU SAY? I DON"T WEAR MY HEARING AIDS IN THERE, OZARK. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SPEAK UP! "

(LOL) guess that's possible? But it's usually folks that look too young to have hearing aids?

quote timatkn: "99.9% of the people I have encountered are awesome and friendly. Occasionally I have run into clueless people but usually you can tell it is their first trip, I was pretty clueless my first trip too.


But one time I ran into the biggest a$$ hole ever out in Quetico. Just came right into my site walked right through our fire area while we were enjoying coffee, broke out lunch a few feet from our fire pit. Other members of the group were duece'ing near our tent... I've posted this before.


Jerk in camp "

I remember reading that when you originally posted it. I still can't believe it. What a jerk. I'm not sure what my reaction would be. Probably just laughing and repeating "really?" Over and over again.

Ran into 2 trucks that were launching at moose lake. They were already backed down into the water. That's when they started in loading their gear. I got out and got my boat ready to launch. They could see I was frustrated that they didn't unload their gear up at the parking lot. Meanwhile 4 other boats pulled up and was waiting in line.. green horns go sure.....
People are generally nicer in person.
My buddy is a general loud mouth.
I'm constantly saying.....Daryl, you don't have to yell. We're at the same campsite.

I was leading a women’s church group and we had a camp sight with a beach. We were all set up and we were out doing our own things. I was fishing on a point when a group of much older people paddled right in and landed on our beach then started doing things I can not post about on a family forum ( If you want to entire story you need to ask me at the next wing night.) After they left, my church ladies asked me what kind of a place did I bring them too?! The intruders left a big mess behind on the beach as well.

Boy I'd of never let them leave the beach like yoo hoo, you forgot your trash.

O.K., like most I have run into my share of rude or clueless people. At one time I probably was one of the clueless... It happens every few trips, but not a big deal.

As for deliberate or dangerous people they are extremely rare. I think we run greater risks at home than in the BWCA. While I personally don't worry about it, I can see how, given the setting, bad things happening can take on a greater significance than if they happened elsewhere.

I am far more afraid of someone (or some bear) mistaking me for a threat than I am afraid of being threatened by anyone or anything. The older I get, the more I wonder if groups I pass talk about "that creepy old guy" they passed on the last portage...

Never run into a rude/disrespectful person!

quote Dbldppr1250: "Never run into a rude/disrespectful person!"

Maybe because I'm on the east coast I've run across a number of folks who are rude, or who just don't know any better. Fishing the backwaters that drain into the Chesapeake bay its rarely that I see anyone else but over the years the number of Kayak's have increased and now I'm seeing more folks in places that I had thought were forgotten.
My favorite was the man and woman with matching Kayaks who run into me while screaming "watch out we can't stop". They struck me dead center hard enough to scoot my Grumann a few feet sideways as they both "fell out" of their kayak's as their bows started to ride up my canoe.............

Never run into a rude person in the BW or Q. Like most I have waited for people at a portage not making a real effort, but I bet a few have thought the same about me once or twice after 6 or 7 portages in a day. Wish I could say the same for people in America in general, although in my many travels I have probably had the friendliest interludes in Montana--even got a job offer while pumping gas in Missoula, sigh...

quote ozarkpaddler: "

quote boonie: "

quote ozarkpaddler: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "Only people on portages once in a while. As I pass them without stopping I will say hi or good afternoon and they don't respond. Are you kidding me? How much effort does it take to be civil. "

Not that often, but I'm the guy that says "Hi" to everyone on the trail. I've noticed as the years pass, less people reciprocate. I figure it's a "City" thing, but maybe it's just 'cause I'm getting uglier and scarier as I age (LOL)?"

WHATS THAT YOU SAY? I DON"T WEAR MY HEARING AIDS IN THERE, OZARK. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SPEAK UP! "

(LOL) guess that's possible? But it's usually folks that look too young to have hearing aids?"

Funny because this would be me also (I wear hearing aids and have for years). What has happened to me several times has been people approaching me when I am not wearing my aids and really surprising me. On solo trips I might not wear the aids at all. Otherwise my usual trip partners accept that I am very hard of hearing while we travel.

I would consider rude and disrespectful to be those people who feel the need to fish right next to you. This happened twice. Once on Shade Lake back down the long narrow cove, it was dead end back there. The only other canoe on the whole lake saw us heading back there to fish. They had the whole rest of the lake to fish but they decided they needed to go back into that long narrow cove and start fishing right next to us. I didn't say a word to them, just shook my head and left. Maybe they thought we knew where the fish were, even so, I would never do that someone.

Then one time on a lake up by Kawnipi, same thing, we were the only canoe on the lake and were fishing close to a portage. These three canoes come across the portage, as soon as they got in the water they started whipping jigs everywhere. They were literally bouncing their lures off the side of my canoe. The kicker was they were with a guide I know. Not sure how he thought it would be OK to fish right on top of us. We had already cleaned out that hole, we had been there for a couple of hours already and pretty well fished it out, but the point is you don't sit right on top of someone in Quetico and casts your lures into other people's canoes. Me and buddy paddled off to the side and watched for about 5 or 10 minutes, they didn't catch a fish. So we paddle to the other end of the lake and started fishing there where the water flows into the next lake. 10 minutes later they were right on top of us again and casting so we leave there and head down stream to the next lake and sure enough they stopped right next to us for the third time. So we went back up stream to the lake we started on to just get away from these people. Never saw them again. Saw the guide again years later and he apologized.

I would say that was rude and disrespectful. But other than that I don't recall any other issues.

I'd agree with others that rude/disrespectful people are quite rare in the BWCA. But after 30 years and 40+ trips, I'd have to say that I have seen a few instances of somewhat rude/disrespectful people.

The most common instances are folks fishing directly out from my campsites. I'm not talking about a couple guys quietly trolling by. I'm talking about a canoe stationed directly in front of my campsite for 30+ minutes. I'm talking about gear and nets and fishing rods banging against their canoe all the while. I'm talking about a canoe so close that I could easily hear their conversation from my tent or hammock. I've experienced this on several occasions. It should be noted that I am an avid fisherman but I would never consider fishing within stones throw of another occupied campsite.

The second most common instance of rudeness is the blocking of portages with canoes or gear. I'm not talking about the people that have just landed and are making a solid effort to move their gear from the landing. I'm talking about people that leave their canoes blocking the landing unattended while they portage their first or second load across.

If I could make one suggestion to the outfitter types out there, it would be to offer a list of unwritten rules of etiquette to your customers.

Overall, most of the folks I meet on the trail are incredibly friendly and courteous. The BWCA is just like anywhere else. There is gonna be a few bad apples. Ya just gotta make the best of it and not let it ruin your trip.

My experiences have been the same as most on this thread. Folks I encounter in the BWCA are almost always cheerful or at least conversant enough to wave or say hi. In the off chance I cross paths with ones who don't or are not, well that's ok. Some days I prefer to be in my own mind too. I do my best to keep portages clear but also know I am not perfect so I try not to let a log jam bother me. (I try). Ageing has helped.

There was one occasion though about 3-4 years ago that was rude but had the potential of being disastrous. We were camping/fishing on the Gabbro/Bald Eagle lakes. We were in the narrows between Gabbro and Bald Eagle. Our group of 4 came across a group of 3 in a single canoe. They were on land ostensibly fishing. Two of them were in the middle of a huge yelling match, laced with profanity and threats to leave the other behind in Ely or on the lake and the occasional threat to kill one another. It was obvious they were veterans (I guess in their late 20's early 30's) because part of the argument was over who's service was "more important" to the country vs. who was the "deadbeat" that did not actually see "combat". It was dicey. Maybe PTSD for one or more? I had the feeling at least one of them was armed.

We assed if we should try to intervene to calm them down. Rather, we left the area to go have shore lunch. About an hour later, the three of them came paddling by with not a word being spoken. Even paddling silently by, they looked as intense as they sounded earlier.

quote timatkn: "99.9% of the people I have encountered are awesome and friendly. Occasionally I have run into clueless people but usually you can tell it is their first trip, I was pretty clueless my first trip too.


But one time I ran into the biggest a$$ hole ever out in Quetico. Just came right into my site walked right through our fire area while we were enjoying coffee, broke out lunch a few feet from our fire pit. Other members of the group were duece'ing near our tent... I've posted this before.


Jerk in camp "

I can say without rerservation that you are a better man than me, because although I consider myself to be a very patient person, I would have thrown that jackass into the lake, one because he needed it and two because im big enough to do it :-) p.s. Your wife being there you absolutely did the right thing.

A number of years ago, I was with three other guys and at a portage landing we met a female youth-group travelling the opposite direction.

There are times I'll attempt to "dry foot" my travel, particularly if we've only got one portage before reaching a targeted campsite. On this day I was dry-footing as I had blown out one of the old shoes I bring for dry camp shoes at a previous campsite and preferred not having to wear the boots wet all day.

Suddenly the woman leading this girl-group loudly proclaimed, "Oh, look girls, these big tough men are afraid to get their little tootsies wet while you young girls have no problem stepping in the water. These guys aren't very tough at all are they?" Her comment was really meant for us to hear rather than the girls she was leading. I thought it was totally uncalled for as I didn't know there was a "toughness contest", do not see anything wrong with a wet-foot or dry-foot method--just different ways to choose to portage and am perfectly happy to let people take the type of trip they enjoy as they should be content to let others do the same. She knew nothing of our situation and had no right to call out that we were not doing things the way she would.

My friend said to me (again more for her to hear than me) "Hey, I thought you promised to leave your wife at home!" My response: "I did but I guess I forgot about the girlfriend" :)

Often, my encounters with rude behavior in the woods has something to do with someone who feels they have something to prove. Whether it's the guy barreling up behind you on a portage and expressing disgust at others not immediately noticing their "need" to pass, or the one who shoulders by at a landing and wades in hip-deep and splashes his canoe down and dumps in his pack before jumping in and paddling off (funny story about a guy in a hurry whose technique wasn't all that successful, but that's for another day), or the ones who begin to gloat about winning a race with your family to a prized campsite only to find that some of our party had already landed...

...fortunately, these are few and far between.

I have only had one negative experience, and it was on the very first portage of my very first trip to the BWCA. We pull up to the portage from Snowbank to Disappointment and there are two canoes beached sideways completely blocking the portage. There is a couple with two kids 8-10 years old having lunch. The son is throwing sticks into the water for the two black labs to retrieve. We wait off shore for a few minutes but they don't budge. They finally get the hint when two young guys come through from the other direction and drop their packs in the middle of the sprawl. The couple has the son push their two canoes to the side to make room for us to land. (The two young guys had departed to get their canoes from the other end of the portage.) We land but the son is still throwing sticks for the dogs. The wet dogs are literally jumping over our canoes to chase the sticks into the water.

I asked the experienced guys in the group what they had gotten me into. They said don't worry, and they were right. Other than finding some campsites left in poor condition I haven't had another bad experience.

I have read here many times where someone parks right next to your canoe to fish. Then you move and they follow you again and are right next to you fishing on a lake with many spots to fish. Another one is where they park 10 feet from shore and make all kinds of racket, swearing.

How about casting at their canoe? Oops sorry. I guess that would make me rude and disrespectful.

If I arrive at a portage and I see packs or canoes or people I just wait in the canoe in the water and give them their space. I know that if our combined group size is less than 9 I could start portaging if I want, but I find that tacky as hell when people do. I can see from the comments here not everybody shares that view point. This difference in how people feel is also probably the reason that some folks don't return a good natured 'Hello'. They are probably busy thinking to themselves, "First this guy climbs over my back and now he wants to stop and chat?"

quote deerfoot: "

quote ozarkpaddler: "

quote boonie: "

quote ozarkpaddler: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "Only people on portages once in a while. As I pass them without stopping I will say hi or good afternoon and they don't respond. Are you kidding me? How much effort does it take to be civil. "

Not that often, but I'm the guy that says "Hi" to everyone on the trail. I've noticed as the years pass, less people reciprocate. I figure it's a "City" thing, but maybe it's just 'cause I'm getting uglier and scarier as I age (LOL)?"

WHATS THAT YOU SAY? I DON"T WEAR MY HEARING AIDS IN THERE, OZARK. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SPEAK UP! "

(LOL) guess that's possible? But it's usually folks that look too young to have hearing aids?"

Funny because this would be me also (I wear hearing aids and have for years). What has happened to me several times has been people approaching me when I am not wearing my aids and really surprising me. On solo trips I might not wear the aids at all. Otherwise my usual trip partners accept that I am very hard of hearing while we travel."

So THAT'S how you tolerate tripping with us!

On Lake 3 - had 3 canoes of decidedly terse guys fishing within spitting distance of our campsite. I casually asked them if they were having any luck.....got a very short 'NO!' from one of them, and they stayed right there for about another hour, staring right at us and not catching a damn thing. I was a bit cheesed off, but my wife was a bit freaked. Never had any other encounter remotely like that.

Guys - if you're in a group, please don't act sketchy around the ladies.

I've seen many more incidents of weirdness than rudeness. Most of the rudeness I've seen is from the clueless.... usually blocking portages (exiting the canoe next to the landing so as not to get their feet wet), or those with the yard sale where their entire kit is strewn about the portage, at either end, all helter-skelter. I don't much care, because we are very efficient and very tight with our gear, but that's how stuff gets lost.

Saw a group of four boys bathing in Shell Lake two years ago. I said to them "you know you're not supposed to bathe in the lake. It's #10 on the permit you signed." I didn't say it sternly, though I'm big and bearded and don't smile much. They meekly said "sorry." Backtalk would not have improved the situation.

If people just practiced some amount of situational and environmental (knowing ones space around them) awareness, things would drastically improve. We once made it to the end of a portage (from a entry point lake), where we found two women, each sitting in the front of their respective canoe, waiting for the men who were struggling on the portage. Both canoes completely covered the portage put in. Interestingly, I smelled them before I saw them (perfume), and they clearly weren't having fun. Since there was absolutely no place near the portage to put the canoe down, I walked out into the water and let'er down with a bit more drop than I might normally, right in front of their boats. Not enough splash to ruin their day, but enough to express my displeasure. I know that makes me now rude and disrespectful!

Mike in Minneapolis

one thing I've noticed is that every group of 4 or greater usually has one person in a fowl mood when ending the trip

maybe it's the mother who was hoping for a vacation but found out she was the maid, or maybe the college buddies aren't so good friends after all, or ... but it always seems there is someone who had a bad trip

Copied and pasted this from an old thread cuz I didn't want to type it all again:)

some of you may have seen it before:

04/06/2013 09:43PM
Hate to say it but I do have an interesting theft story...back in the late 70s 3 other guys and myself were camping on South Fowl Lake, which is technically outside of the boundary waters but we entered at Little John Lake and crossed John and North fowl Lake to get there. We were having a great trip and canoed across to the towering bluff on the Canadian shore to climb it for a great view as we had done before. As we admired the view from the top, we saw a couple canoes approach our campsite, enter it and spend some time in there. We hustled down the bluff(not a quick climb or descent), hopped in our canoes and made a beeline back to our campsite.


I had decided to try to quit smoking cigs while up there, so I brought a pipe and a bag of tobacco. As we approached our campsite, he first thing we saw was my bag of tobacco floating in the water. Upon entering our site we found that our site had basically been ransacked, with things strewn about and several things missing...knives, flashlights, personal stuff and my pipe as well. Can you say pissed off???


We had seen the two canoes head off to the bay to the southeast so the four of us strapped on our resolve and our knives and proceeded to bushwack around the corner of the bay to what was a campsite about a half a mile away. I will never forget the mix of emotions as we walked over there which was part apprehension as to what we might encounter and part anger at the audacity and complete sacrilege of vandalism and theft in the BWCA.


We entered their campsite and were confronted by a couple guys slightly older than us (we were early twenties)and told them our story and certainty that the perps were in this camp. They did not believe us. As it turned out, these guys were the trip leaders and counselors for a group of underpriveleged and troubled teens from the Chicago area. There were perhaps a dozen of the teens in the group and they pretty much stayed away. They weren't buying our story, but little by little I think they began to understand. They asked us to return to our camp and give them time to talk to their group, so we did. About an hour later the 2 leaders walked into our camp with four teenage punks who had admitted to the dirty deed. As pissed as we were, I think the trip leaders were even more pissed as they had sacrificed time and money to take these punks up to the BWCA in hopes that it would influence them to aspire to a better life. I felt for them. They basically said here they are, do what you want with them. It was tempting to kick their dishonest punk asses, but we settled for some serious yelling and ass chewing.


The moral of the story is kind of cool...the trip leaders took our names and addresses and asked us to give them a list of what was missing and the value, which we did. They said that they would make these kids work to pay off what they owed us for the theft and vandalism. Our trip was in June. In August I received a check from a youth organization in Chicago for 80 some dollars to cover my losses. At least the counselors had integrity.


Gotta tell ya, it was a lousy feeling seeing it happening; it was even worse getting into our site and realizing we had been senselessly vandalized and stolen from, and the feeling of walking towards their campsite with a mix of anger and trepidation is one I will never forget. Ultimately a good outcome though.

quote ZaraSp00k: "one thing I've noticed is that every group of 4 or greater usually has one person in a fowl mood when ending the trip


maybe it's the mother who was hoping for a vacation but found out she was the maid, or maybe the college buddies aren't so good friends after all, or ... but it always seems there is someone who had a bad trip"

Can't remember this ever happening. Other than some regret that the trip is over, we all are usually feeling pretty good--both with ourselves and each other. OR....maybe they are all mad at me? Hmmmmmm.

I guess it all depends on your definition of Rude and Disrespectful... I think the biggest problem I have seen in my time of tripping is people who are not knowledgeable about portage rules or expectations. Blocking portage entries and trails is the most common complaint.

One that is not lack of knowledge though is the person who sees you catching fish in a small area and then moves in to fish the spot as well within a canoe length. Makes you wonder! Or the leaving of fish remains on the shore about 20 yards from camp on Lake Agnes several years ago, smell was terrible!

I have also had people come up to camp and ask to share the site, because it was getting dark, luckily there was an empty site a few hundred yards away around the next point I directed them to. I have also had a father and son on Disappointment many years ago come and ask if we had matches as it had rained all day, all the campsites were taken and it was after dark. They were going to set up a camp and had no means to start a fire, we told them they could stay at our site but they declined. We did however give them either waterproof matches or a fire starter to use and keep.

Being that I travel 1100 miles to take my trip, it is going to take quite a bit to get me upset or make me mad and ruin my trip!! Perhaps the rudest and most disrespectful thing I ever encountered was the Poison Ivy I contracted on any Island in Snow Bay... I never will forgive that for causing me to have to cut my trip short!!

Bruce

I was once rude and disrespectful myself in return for the same behavior.

We were on the way in last fall and a group of Packer fans were on their way out. They were young guys who were blocking the portage landing. One guy was filtering water, another was fishing, two more were just soaking their feet and shooting the breeze. We sat offshore waiting for them to get out of the way, but they didn't. I was a little steamed. After a few minutes, we realized that they weren't going to move so we just went in and asked the to move a boat to make room. It was the Sunday before Labor Day, last weekend of NFL preseason. I saw the packer hat on one of them and started a conversation. I soon learned they were all Packer fans who went to school together.

I put on my best concerned dad face and asked them, "How long have you guys been out here?" 6 days was the answer. "Have you guys talked to anyone about what happened at Lambeau yesterday?" They hadn't and suddenly I had the attention of all four. "Oh, so you guys haven't heard the news?" No news had been heard, but they were listening intently. "I don't know all the details, but we stayed at the campground on Sawbill last night and the folks next to us were saying that Rogers was carried off the practice field yesterday. I guess it was one of those non contact knee injuries. That's about all I know but it didn't sound good and they were definitely not happy."

And with that, I hoisted the canoe and took off up the portage trail. They were still lamenting their horrible luck and how screwed they were for the season when I came back for my pack. Hopefully that lasted for another 5 or 6 hours at least.

"I've run into a few clueless people that lead them to being somewhat rude by BWCA standards (blocking portages is the main offense) "

Got to say it works the other way as well. We have always understood the rule that our group should wait at the landings of portages for the other to get on the path.

One year on the numbered lakes we had pulled our 3 canoes in and unpacked and were starting to carry them through when a another group pushed their canoes through and virtually ran through the middle of us. When I said something to the oldest in the group he said we needed to learn how to portage and to get out of the way.

Does anyone REALLY need to move through protages that fast and blow the other group off the trail? I would submit that perhaps the groups that are seen as "blocking portages" are perhaps just enjoying being in the BWCA and not in a huge hurry. The rudeness, in my opinion falls with the others that blow through them rather then just waiting their turn.

I'll give you a 180 degree different story.

First trip a few years back, my son and I paddling the Granite River, doing a leisurely 3 night trip. We were newbies, packed a little heavy, and my son was only 9, so couldn't carry much....thus we had to triple portage.

Second day in we've just landed at a portage and are unloading, and thanks to subscribing to this site, I at least knew not to block the landing or portage.

Coming up behind us a dad, son and daughter, both about early teenagers, pulled up into the landing. They were doing a day trip, and traveling light, just canoes, lunch, and emergency gear.

We each said "Hi" as they unloaded, and we stayed out of their way, intending to let them pass ahead of us. Instead, the dad grabs their canoe, and tells each of his kids to grab some of our gear, one took a pack and oars, the other our bear barrel and leeches. They hauled that gear for us, turning our usual triple portage into a single portage, saving us a good amount of time and effort.

Unfortunately I no longer remember their names, but if they happen to read this, let me say thanks again, 3 years later.

quote johndku: "I'll give you a 180 degree different story... the dad grabs their canoe, and tells each of his kids to grab some of our gear, one took a pack and oars, the other our bear barrel and leeches. They hauled that gear for us, turning our usual triple portage into a single portage, saving us a good amount of time and effort.

"

Outbound last October somewhere between Disappointment and Ima (don't remember exactly where), I shared a portage with a trio of young men going the opposite direction. After I carried my canoe over, I turned around to fetch my pack just as one of the young guys appeared with it. He had carried my gear over as he returned to get his own pack. I thanked him and he smiled and said, "I was going this way anyway." Really nice gesture.

quote NotSoFast: "

quote johndku: "I'll give you a 180 degree different story... the dad grabs their canoe, and tells each of his kids to grab some of our gear, one took a pack and oars, the other our bear barrel and leeches. They hauled that gear for us, turning our usual triple portage into a single portage, saving us a good amount of time and effort.


"

Outbound last October somewhere between Disappointment and Ima (don't remember exactly where), I shared a portage with a trio of young men going the opposite direction. After I carried my canoe over, I turned around to fetch my pack just as one of the young guys appeared with it. He had carried my gear over as he returned to get his own pack. I thanked him and he smiled and said, "I was going this way anyway." Really nice gesture."

We always end up doing this on our trips at one point or another for anyone we cross paths with and can help. Some people aren't as thankful as you'd think though.

quote ockycamper: ""I've run into a few clueless people that lead them to being somewhat rude by BWCA standards (blocking portages is the main offense) "


Got to say it works the other way as well. We have always understood the rule that our group should wait at the landings of portages for the other to get on the path.


One year on the numbered lakes we had pulled our 3 canoes in and unpacked and were starting to carry them through when a another group pushed their canoes through and virtually ran through the middle of us. When I said something to the oldest in the group he said we needed to learn how to portage and to get out of the way.


Does anyone REALLY need to move through protages that fast and blow the other group off the trail? I would submit that perhaps the groups that are seen as "blocking portages" are perhaps just enjoying being in the BWCA and not in a huge hurry. The rudeness, in my opinion falls with the others that blow through them rather then just waiting their turn."

The numbered lakes is where I learned about the BWCAW, my first 3 trips went through there. Then over time I moved on to less busy areas...so it has been awhile since I did that route, but for the life of me I cannot remember any portages where 3 canoe should be able to "block" or should stop anyone for landing and moving on. It was always really busy with 5-7 canoes traveling both ways during the busy mid-morning travel times. When we started out we got passed many times, by more experienced groups, we had 3 canoes too and just don't remember it being an issue? Those are pretty big landings and wide portages. I guess I didn't see it as rude... they moved through quick--didn't slow us down...I thought they were helping from keeping these busy portages from being congested.

I pretty much triple portage now because I travel with my wife and small kids, some group behind me single portaging doesn't need to wait for my family to completely finish my 5 trips across the portages before they go...they will just blow by and I'll never see them again. No big deal.

Now if they physically pushed you out of the way that is beyond rude!

T

quote Basspro69: "

quote timatkn: "99.9% of the people I have encountered are awesome and friendly. Occasionally I have run into clueless people but usually you can tell it is their first trip, I was pretty clueless my first trip too.

But one time I ran into the biggest a$$ hole ever out in Quetico. Just came right into my site walked right through our fire area while we were enjoying coffee, broke out lunch a few feet from our fire pit. Other members of the group were duece'ing near our tent... I've posted this before.

Jerk in camp "

I can say without rerservation that you are a better man than me, because although I consider myself to be a very patient person, I would have thrown that jackass into the lake, one because he needed it and two because im big enough to do it :-) p.s. Your wife being there you absolutely did the right thing."

it would of been fun to have ya on the trip!

quote timatkn: "...some group behind me single portaging doesn't need to wait for my family to completely finish my 5 trips across the portages before they go...they will just blow by and I'll never see them again. No big deal."

That was my thinking, too.

quote NotSoFast: "

quote johndku: "I'll give you a 180 degree different story... the dad grabs their canoe, and tells each of his kids to grab some of our gear, one took a pack and oars, the other our bear barrel and leeches. They hauled that gear for us, turning our usual triple portage into a single portage, saving us a good amount of time and effort.


"

Outbound last October somewhere between Disappointment and Ima (don't remember exactly where), I shared a portage with a trio of young men going the opposite direction. After I carried my canoe over, I turned around to fetch my pack just as one of the young guys appeared with it. He had carried my gear over as he returned to get his own pack. I thanked him and he smiled and said, "I was going this way anyway." Really nice gesture."

I have helped, and will in the future, gladly again help anyone at a portage--if they want it. I always ask or offer first. Some folks might be particular about me, a stranger, grabbing their stuff. I also was turned down one time by a group leader who preferred that his young charges have as part of their experience a self sufficiency--that they would do the whole thing with their team only--no outside help. I could respect that.

quote ParkerMag: "

quote timatkn: "...some group behind me single portaging doesn't need to wait for my family to completely finish my 5 trips across the portages before they go...they will just blow by and I'll never see them again. No big deal."

That was my thinking, too."

Absolutely, especially if they just left their canoes blocking the landing and didn't put them off to the side out of the way. Nobody's going to sit there and wait while they walk (for example) across the Tuscarora-Missing Link portage and back to move their stuff out of the way before they land. Not enough time in the day to do it either. No need to do it on a much shorter portage either.

And there's always the possibility of a rescue mission, so don't leave stuff blocking the portage landing or trail.

Seldom. We have had a few people that were pretty loud on adjacent campsites. Once had some guys loudly talking and fishing anchored just off our campsite at first light...we were trying to sleep in and unhappy. All and all, not too bad. Everyone is there for a different reason. While I may not think that the BWCA is the best place to exercise some of those "reasons" those people have the right to use it like me. I do get irritated though, not everyone is me and shares my sensibilities.

Rude is a strong word, I think I've had far more encounters of inconsiderate people or the remnants of them. My examples in 7 trips include:
1) men's boxers left on the fire grate
2) live trees cut down near a campsite
3) boys scouts blocking portages and landings because they haven't been taught proper etiquette
4) #2 bathroom holes dug throughout a tent pad area because people were too lazy to walk 50 yards to the latrine
5) people using dynamite or mortors to fish (we literally thought they blew themselves up and rushed to their aid, found out they were drunk with a southern accent)

I find it disrespectful when people fish close also but there is a psychological reason why this happens. People attract other people.
Ever been standing in a store (usually big box or grocery) & looking at some obscure item. As your standing there, some random person starts looking over your shoulder at the same item. They are only looking at it because you are but they don't consciously know that.
I once watched a documentary where a person took a waiting rope, like at airport checkin, and a sign that stated "line starts here." They set it up in the middle of a shopping mall and stood at the beginning of the line. Within 20 minutes there were 50+ people waiting in line. Nobody had a clue what they were waiting for, they were attracted by other people.
Knowing this doesn't make it any less annoying when people fish close but next time just say hi, explain to them that this is your first time in the BWCA & first time fishing in your life & they will leave.

After having suffered through a meal at a local restaurant listening to a woman and two girls carrying on a discussion in the booth behind me and the wife, where every other word was the F bomb, it has occurred to me that I've dealt with a lot more rude/disrespectful people in restaurant booths than I ever have in the BWCA.

Post script: I did deal with the "ladies" when they got to discussing how their dog craps all over the living room and pukes in their beds.

quote Eric1614: "People attract other people.
Ever been standing in a store (usually big box or grocery) & looking at some obscure item. As your standing there, some random person starts looking over your shoulder at the same item. They are only looking at it because you are but they don't consciously know that."

OMG, so I'm not crazy! This happens to me all the time! In the grocery store, at a time of day when the place is practically empty -- huge warehouse store -- long isle -- I will stop and look at something obscure and then next thing I know, someone will be seriously crowding me, looking around me, through me and over my shoulder. I look up and down the aisle and we are the only people in the long aisle. I think of all the products in this store and all the products in this aisle, this person has to stare at this spot, at this time??
I usually walk away and wait for the person to move along and then go back and get whatever it was I was looking for. But, sometimes I try to wait them out and they never end up picking anything from the shelf.

And then they are talking to themself and it freaks you out and then later when you get away from this creepy person you realize she has a phone stuck in her ear and is talking to someone on the phone. Been there.

quote Eric1614: "I find it disrespectful when people fish close also but there is a psychological reason why this happens. People attract other people.
Ever been standing in a store (usually big box or grocery) & looking at some obscure item. As your standing there, some random person starts looking over your shoulder at the same item. They are only looking at it because you are but they don't consciously know that.
I once watched a documentary where a person took a waiting rope, like at airport checkin, and a sign that stated "line starts here." They set it up in the middle of a shopping mall and stood at the beginning of the line. Within 20 minutes there were 50+ people waiting in line. Nobody had a clue what they were waiting for, they were attracted by other people.
Knowing this doesn't make it any less annoying when people fish close but next time just say hi, explain to them that this is your first time in the BWCA & first time fishing in your life & they will leave. "

I have to agree with you. We used to go to White fish dunes in Door County, WI a lot. We would keep walking until we completely were away from everyone. Never failed, within the hour we always had someone sitting on either side of us. Same with near Corpus Christi, TX on the Gulf Coast. Huge beach and every time someone would come and sit right next to us. I think certain people can't function without being next to someone else.

If people get too close to me, I just fart real loud.

quote yogi59weedr: "If people get too close to me, I just fart real loud.
"

This is gold.

Posted this on another thread a while ago...

We did an easy fishing trip into Isabella a handful of years ago and had a group of yahoos at the next campsite shooting hundreds of semi-automatic rounds one morning. As we wondered what to do, a canoe came blazing out from the island campsite on the north end and made it over to where the guys were shooting in about as fast as I have ever seen a canoe move. Turns out they were USFS rangers. We watched through the binos as they ordered the guys out to the shore. I assume they disrespectful group was issued citations, but we didn't hang around for more than an hour after that.

The only time I have ever had someone stop by my campsite was on a solo trip at the northeast site on Burnt Lake by Sawbill. I had been there for a couple of nights already and 2 guys were looking for a site well after dusk and the sites had all been taken. I knew about the unmarked (but legal and official) site just up the shore on the north end and pointed them in that direction. The next day they paddled by while I was fishing and thanked me for the info. I accepted their offer to share some brandy later that evening around the fire. Turned out to be 2 really nice guys from Ohio that got transferred to the Arrowhead with Century Link. Hopefully, they had a good enough time to head back again in the coming years.

quote timatkn: "

The numbered lakes is where I learned about the BWCAW, my first 3 trips went through there. Then over time I moved on to less busy areas...so it has been awhile since I did that route, but for the life of me I cannot remember any portages where 3 canoe should be able to "block" or should stop anyone for landing and moving on. It was always really busy with 5-7 canoes traveling both ways during the busy mid-morning travel times. When we started out we got passed many times, by more experienced groups, we had 3 canoes too and just don't remember it being an issue? Those are pretty big landings and wide portages. I guess I didn't see it as rude... they moved through quick--didn't slow us down...I thought they were helping from keeping these busy portages from being congested.

T"

"

I think there's a difference between "being rude/disrespectful" and just being kind of clueless.
Lake Two: these people were sitting there eating sandwiches and reading maps and hanging out when we arrived and started waiting. Their canoes definitely blocked our access to landing.

quote Savage Voyageur: "Only people on portages once in a while. As I pass them without stopping I will say hi or good afternoon and they don't respond. Are you kidding me? How much effort does it take to be civil. "

So true!

I hate that!

quote Corsair: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "Only people on portages once in a while. As I pass them without stopping I will say hi or good afternoon and they don't respond. Are you kidding me? How much effort does it take to be civil. "

So true!
I hate that!"

Sometimes it's not a matter of effort. My husband is deaf without his cochlear, and if he's not looking directly at you, which is possible while carrying a canoe, he would never see that you said something.