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Crocodile

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Date/Time: 04/30/2024 02:25AM

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Crocodile

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Previous Messages:
Author	Message Text
overthehill	07/05/2017 05:33PM Wow. Veggie lakes a no no with a 66 too? Oh my. Oh well. It was before the sign. We snooped to the first one. Came in from E B Skin though. Camped Crocodile only though.
ducks	07/05/2017 05:01PM quote bunker3: "quote nojobro: "That's not what I mean I guess. I'm thinking 5 days out of EP64, then having a separate EP66 permit for days 6-7, with camping on Crocodile. That would follow the rules, correct?" To my knowledge, yes, that would be fine. But you will have to pick up your permit on day 6." Yes Nola, you could do it but I agree with bunker3 that you would have to go get your EP 66 permit on day 6. I don't think you could get both the 66 and 64 permit at the start of your trip because your 66 permit entry would be 6 days later. It would be a pain to have to go get a 66 permit on that 6th day. But, you could paddle down to Bearskin Outfitters, grab your permit, and then paddle back to the EP 66 portage to Crocodile. Round trip it would probably add an extra 4 miles of paddling.
bunker3	07/05/2017 01:12PM quote nojobro: "That's not what I mean I guess. I'm thinking 5 days out of EP64, then having a separate EP66 permit for days 6-7, with camping on Crocodile. That would follow the rules, correct?" To my knowledge, yes, that would be fine. But you will have to pick up your permit on day 6.
nojobro	07/05/2017 12:13PM That's not what I mean I guess. I'm thinking 5 days out of EP64, then having a separate EP66 permit for days 6-7, with camping on Crocodile. That would follow the rules, correct?
LuvMyBell	07/05/2017 11:35AM The USFS sign posted earlier in this thread is pretty clear. If you have an EP #64 permit you cannot visit or camp on Crocodile. If you have an EP #66 permit you must camp all nights on Crocodile and cannot visit any other lakes. I understand that camping part but the visiting parts (day trips) to or from Crocodile makes absolutely no sense. I'm guessing this is one if those rules that will be ignored by those who think they only need to follow rules they agree with.
bunker3	07/05/2017 10:49AM quote nojobro: "So how would a person staying in this area with an EP64 permit be legally able to visit Crocodile? If we had a permit for EP66, say for day 5 of the trip after we'd put in at EP64, could we then visit and stay on Crocodile? Planning a week in this area and Crocodile is intriguing and would like to check it out...but don't want to spend a week on Crocodile. :) " It seems there are conflicting thoughts, but in order to camp on Crocodile, you MUST have an EP66 permit and MUST stay there for your entire trip. I don't see why you couldn't visit Crocodile via the East Bearskin portage, but I believe you cannot camp there without an EP66 permit.
nojobro	07/05/2017 10:28AM So how would a person staying in this area with an EP64 permit be legally able to visit Crocodile? If we had a permit for EP66, say for day 5 of the trip after we'd put in at EP64, could we then visit and stay on Crocodile? Planning a week in this area and Crocodile is intriguing and would like to check it out...but don't want to spend a week on Crocodile. :)
ducks	07/03/2017 06:37AM Crocodile is very unique as it's detached from the rest of the bwca. In order to get to the 3 places on East Bearskin that you can enter at EP 64 from Crocodile you have to leave the bwca and paddle on the part of East Bearskin that is outside the boundaries of the bwca.......and vise versa if you want to get to Crocodile from other parts of the bwca you have to paddle the parts of East Bearskin lake that are outside the bwca boundaries. Bog EP 68 is a dead end lake where you can only go to 1 lake. I think it only has 1 campsite left after the Pagami Creek fire so there is only 1 permit per week.
Oisinirish	07/03/2017 05:05AM quote ducks: Uhh
Oisinirish	07/03/2017 05:00AM Are there other instances of this type of restriction? I don't think I've ever seen a single destination only entry restriction before.
BaragaMan	07/01/2017 05:11PM Ducks... No...my mistake. I did not look at the other picture and see that EP66 allows entry from East Bearskin. For some reason I had it in my head that 66 only permitted a different access route and if 64 will not get you in to Crocodile and Crocodilers can't come out, well... Reminder to self...don't post at night...don't post at night!
LuvMyBell	07/01/2017 08:19AM For what it's worth, I sent an email to the Gunflint Ranger Station regarding the sign posted at East Bearskin. Here's the reply regarding EP#66 permits. 'According to the Wilderness Plan you cannot take day trips to any lakes outside the BWCAW because once you leave the wilderness your permit is invalid. However, in reality, because of the unique situation with Crocodile being a ‘dead end’ lake, visitors with an entry permit for EP #66 may make daytrips to other lakes - East Bearskin Lake, the Vegetable chain lakes, etc.… as long as you are camping only on Crocodile and not going outside the wilderness to restock or visit the ice cream shop!' So it seems the ranger station is basically saying the sign is incorrect and that day trips to other lakes within the BWCAW with an EP #66 permits are permitted. Those who read the reply will notice that day trips to the Vegetable Lakes are also permitted. Funny thing though, the Vegetable Lakes are not within the borders of the BWCAW. The complete email reply I received did confirm that the sign is correct with respect to EP#64 permits. They do not want anyone on Crocodile Lake except those with EP#66 permits, even for a day trip to fish. I sent a follow-up email regarding the Vegetable Lakes since they are outside the BWCAW. I also asked if they were planning to correct the sign which clearly states that day trips to surrounding lakes are not permitted with an EP #66 permit. I will post the clarification once I receive it.
ducks	07/01/2017 07:51AM quote BaragaMan: "It would appear then that there is no longer much of a need for the portage trail from East Bearskin to Crocodile Lake, just saying..." Why? you can use that portage trail w/ a 66 permit and you can use it on daytrips from East Bearskin Lodge, campground, cabin, or from the boat launch. Edit.... I apologize if your comment was meant as sarcastic, tongue in cheek, joke etc as those things are hard to pick out in written text.... especially without knowing the person that wrote it ;)
BaragaMan	06/30/2017 09:33PM It would appear then that there is no longer much of a need for the portage trail from East Bearskin to Crocodile Lake, just saying...
LuvMyBell	06/30/2017 03:59PM quote ducks: "One rule states. You may not re-enter on a different date using the same permit. and another one states. Permit stubs become invalid when the group leader exits the wilderness." Yes, I saw the first rule, completely understand the intent, and would never exit the wilderness except to end my trip. As with my previous post, just playing devil's advocate.....The rules clearly distinguish between a permit, which only the group/trip leader gets and stubs, which 2nd to 4th canoes get. The first rule only mentions permits and the 2nd rule mentions both permits and stubs. A clever lawyer could make an argument that those with a stub is following the rules as expressly written, if they went back to the EP to get something they forgot, as long as the group leader with the permit stayed at camp. This would expect true if this happened on day 1. You'd still be following the rule as written as you would be entering at the EP on the permit and on the date on the permit.
ducks	06/30/2017 02:53PM One rule states. You may not re-enter on a different date using the same permit. and another one states. Permit stubs become invalid when the group leader exits the wilderness.
LuvMyBell	06/30/2017 01:11PM quote ducks: "quote SourisMan: "quote ducks: " I'm confused. Why would the Vegetable Lakes be off limits, just because they are outside the Boundary Waters? Are they private property?" One of the rules of the bwca is that if you leave the bwca your permit becomes invalid. So, if you are camped on Crocodile and you daytrip to the vegetable lakes you have exited the bwca and your trip is now over. " Doesn't the rule state if the trip leader exits the wilderness, the permit is revoked? I understand the intent but the letter of the law states trip leader.
jswamp	06/30/2017 01:00PM Wife and kids age 5 and 7 did a 4 day trip on crocodile last year and loved it. An easy lake to get to but very private and pretty. Kids caught plenty of fish without much effort and did not see anyone else the entire time we were there.
ducks	06/30/2017 08:04AM quote SourisMan: "quote ducks: " I'm confused. Why would the Vegetable Lakes be off limits, just because they are outside the Boundary Waters? Are they private property?" One of the rules of the bwca is that if you leave the bwca your permit becomes invalid. So, if you are camped on Crocodile and you daytrip to the vegetable lakes you have exited the bwca and your trip is now over.
dele	06/30/2017 07:36AM quote ducks: " My "guess" on the main reasoning for the sign is to eliminate people using a 64 permit to go camp on Crocodile. Croc only has 4 campsites so it can only accommodate the 1 permit per day like the 66 permit has and an overflow of people using 64 permits could potentially overcrowd Croc. That could cause a person with the only 66 permit permit for a given day to get to Croc and find it full and they would have no other options but to end their trip before they even set up camp. I'm not sure on the daytrip part of it. This makes sense but as you say, it doesn't explain the day trip regulations. Why should people camped on Crocodile not be able to make day trips elsewhere? As for the vegetable lakes, perhaps we should just expand the borders of the BWCA to include them :)
SourisMan	06/29/2017 08:07PM quote ducks: " I took the picture of the sign at the end of July 2016 and it looked really new. Some other people stated that they had been to the East Bearskin launch earlier last summer and hadn't seen it there. Since the vegetable lakes are outside of the bwca you technically wouldn't be able to daytrip there if camped on Crocodile regardless of the sign. My "guess" on the main reasoning for the sign is to eliminate people using a 64 permit to go camp on Crocodile. Croc only has 4 campsites so it can only accommodate the 1 permit per day like the 66 permit has and an overflow of people using 64 permits could potentially overcrowd Croc. That could cause a person with the only 66 permit permit for a given day to get to Croc and find it full and they would have no other options but to end their trip before they even set up camp. I'm not sure on the daytrip part of it. All of that being said....... Crocodile is a great entry point for a short basecamp trip. It's a cool and skinny lake where the walleye tend to cooperate. My then 11 year old daughter and I had a great trip." I'm confused. Why would the Vegetable Lakes be off limits, just because they are outside the Boundary Waters? Are they private property?
ducks	06/29/2017 08:01AM I took the picture of the sign at the end of July 2016 and it looked really new. Some other people stated that they had been to the East Bearskin launch earlier last summer and hadn't seen it there. Since the vegetable lakes are outside of the bwca you technically wouldn't be able to daytrip there if camped on Crocodile regardless of the sign. My "guess" on the main reasoning for the sign is to eliminate people using a 64 permit to go camp on Crocodile. Croc only has 4 campsites so it can only accommodate the 1 permit per day like the 66 permit has and an overflow of people using 64 permits could potentially overcrowd Croc. That could cause a person with the only 66 permit permit for a given day to get to Croc and find it full and they would have no other options but to end their trip before they even set up camp. I'm not sure on the daytrip part of it. All of that being said....... Crocodile is a great entry point for a short basecamp trip. It's a cool and skinny lake where the walleye tend to cooperate. My then 11 year old daughter and I had a great trip.
LuvMyBell	06/28/2017 03:50PM Crocodile Lake is on my bucket list the next time my sons and I Basecamp with their wives. In a previous post I indicated that I had thought you could do day trips to other lakes within the BW with an EP #66 permit. According to the sign posted at East Bearskin Lake, this is not the case. Not only that, but the sign also says that you cannot even visit (day trip) to Crocodile. Does anyone know how long that sign has been there? Is a similar sign posted at the true EP #66 EP by the vegetable lakes? What about signs at other EPs that are close enough to Crocodile Lake that would enable a permit holder to illegally day trip to Crocodile without knowing they were breaking the rules. I believe the information about an EP #66 permit only states that you must camp all nights on Crocodile. I don't remember seeing anything stating EP#66 permit holders cannot day trip to any other lakes or that non EP#66 permit holders cannot day trip to Crocodile. Seems to me someone at the USFS who manages the BW have alot of work to do if they want people to abide by a sign posted at a single EP and if they expect to enforce it. Of course I will abide by these rules when I get an EP #66 permit next year, but I must say it's a very restrictive rule that serves no legitimate purpose I can think of. I'm all for the rule requiring EP #66 permit holders to camp all nights on Crocodile. What purpose does it serve to prevent people with other EP permits from day trips to Crocodile or preventing EP #66 permit holders from day tripping to other lakes? I just don't get it. And how in the world can they enforce this policy if the only notification is posted on a single sign at a single EP?
LuvMyBell	06/28/2017 06:21AM quote : "quote ducks: "Here is a picture of the sign that is now at the East Bearskin landing at the campground public access. It states that you can NOT camp on Crocodile with a #64 (East Bearskin) permit, but you can use a #66 permit (Crocodile) to get to get there from East Bearskin. My daughter and I entered from East Bearskin using a #66 permit. As far as map...... I don't know if it's the best, but I used a Voyaguer Map #10 and it worked well. " So, with a #66 permit, you're not allowed to visit the Vegetable Lakes while staying on Crocodile?" According to the sign that is correct. Technically, the vegetable lakes are outside the borders of the BW. I had always thought you could day trip to any lake within the BW with an EP 66 permit as long as you made it back to your campsite on Crocodile each night. I also thought that anyone could day trip to Crocodile with a permit other than #66. I'll bet these regulations are ignored often, hopefully from ignorance. I'm guessing the only way to legally visit the vegetable lakes would be to enter the BWCA/Crocodile through them instead of East Bearskin. But according to this sign, once you are in the BW and in Crocodile, you cannot visit any other lakes. That to me means zero day trip options with an EP #66 permit.
	06/27/2017 06:18PM quote ducks: "Here is a picture of the sign that is now at the East Bearskin landing at the campground public access. It states that you can NOT camp on Crocodile with a #64 (East Bearskin) permit, but you can use a #66 permit (Crocodile) to get to get there from East Bearskin. My daughter and I entered from East Bearskin using a #66 permit. As far as map...... I don't know if it's the best, but I used a Voyaguer Map #10 and it worked well. " So, with a #66 permit, you're not allowed to visit the Vegetable Lakes while staying on Crocodile?
AmarilloJim	05/01/2017 07:38AM I wonder who can stay at the camp site below the falls from Crocodile on East Bearskin?
overthehill	05/01/2017 06:14AM We got a 66 and entered from E Bearskin. We were at camp in a couple hours. A paddle across and one double portage (steep at start) and the camp on left at east end is my pick. Small wallies and nice perch and saw nobody. We spent most of our 3 lazy days there on east end. Easy trip.
ducks	05/01/2017 05:16AM Here is a picture of the sign that is now at the East Bearskin landing at the campground public access. It states that you can NOT camp on Crocodile with a #64 (East Bearskin) permit, but you can use a #66 permit (Crocodile) to get to get there from East Bearskin. My daughter and I entered from East Bearskin using a #66 permit. As far as map...... I don't know if it's the best, but I used a Voyaguer Map #10 and it worked well.
IcePaddler	05/01/2017 04:06AM quote LostRanger: "Thought of a question or two... Which is the better EP, 64 E Bearskin or 66 Crocodile River? Which are the better maps for this location? Thx in Advance, LR" EP 64 E bearskin is the easiest entry point of the two from what I was told. You can actually get your permit for 66 Crocodile and go out from the the EP 64 E bearskin. I heard about this and when I went last summer I asked the ranger when I picked up my permit and she said many people do that and it's perfectly fine. But if you get a EP 66 Crocodile permit you must camp on Crocodile! I would recommend you do not camp on Crocodile if you don't have a permit for Crocodile. There are only 4 campsites on the lake and somebody with a EP 66 might need the campsite!
LostRanger	04/30/2017 11:24PM Thought of a question or two... Which is the better EP, 64 E Bearskin or 66 Crocodile River? Which are the better maps for this location? Thx in Advance, LR
Dreamer	04/29/2017 09:43PM I spent a week on East Bearskin/Alder/Canoe. Never went to Crocodile, but was right there. I love that area. You can't go wrong!
Lost Ranger	04/29/2017 05:54PM Thank you Lindylair and Ice Paddler, Good information and great suggestions. This is what I was hoping to hear. I had planned on doing a day trip each day and still have plenty of time for fishing Thx again, LR
lindylair	04/28/2017 08:30PM LR, I highly recommend a crocodile trip if what you are looking for is to collect yourself. It is not a difficult trip - if you put in at East Bearskin it is a 30-35 minute paddle to the portage. The portage is moderately long and starts out as a steep uphill, but hten moderates some. Overall you will gain 100 plus feet to Crocodile. Once there you will be on a gem of a lake, very pretty, relatively secluded most of the time, some good daytrip options, decent campsites and really good fishing. We also had very good luck with wildlife sightings and despite the relative ease of the trip and short distance from the car, felt very remote. If you go early season i would highly recommend the bushwhack to the falls on the Crocodile River, they are probably not as spectacular later in the season. A daytrip east down the crocodile River and up to the Veggie lakes is a fun diversion. Did I mention the fishing? Possibly the easiest place to catch a bunch of walleyes from eater size to the low 20's and jumbo perch too boot! Going solo I think you might need to plan a daytrip of sorts each day but there are options there. Most soloists get a little bored by basecamping every day and not venturing far from camp. There are lots of other options, this is a good one if ease of entry, good fishing and high solitude to distance traveled ratio is important. here is that trip report if you haven't seen it yet: Crocodile lake trip
IcePaddler	04/28/2017 07:12AM Went there with some buddies last August. Pretty secluded. It's basically a dead end lake so most people there are camping there. Great fishing as well.
LostRanger	04/28/2017 06:22AM Thx Ducks Will look farther for Lindylair's trip report. Calm Water's
ducks	04/28/2017 05:25AM Great option! Lindylair will probably chime in with some great info. He has a great trip report posted in the trip report section about his trip there. There are a couple of other helpful reports also. My then 11 yo daughter and I went to Croc at the beginning of August last year. Easy to get to, pretty secluded especially for not having to travel very far, (we took the second campsite as another group was leaving it and they were the only people we saw on the lake during our 3 day trip. Eater size walleye are very cooperative as well.
LostRanger	04/27/2017 11:46PM Can anyone tell me more information about the Crocodile? Looking for an easy, couple of days get away to collect myself. Would this be an option? Any others?