Need some help. I'd like to buy used but new will work too. I'd like to keep it under $1,000, under 45 lbs. Other than the Old Town Pack, are there other suggestions?

Outfitters and dealers stock and sell used canoes. The for sale wanted forum here gets them posted. There is also a solo forum here, open to members that is helpful.

butthead

Well, what will your uses be? You mentioned the OT Pack, so I'm going to mention my latest solo that I'm enjoying; the Nova Craft Trapper. Mine is royalex and weighs 39lbs. I've seen them new in a few places from $900-1200, so pretty close to your budget. It's quick for a 12'canoe. Maybe because, unlike the flat bottomed OT Pack, it has a shallow-arch bottom. It's a wee bit wider than most solos, but not uncomfortable. The friend I bought it from is a small guy who paddles a Bell Flashfire and he enjoyed the Trapper. If you live near Rutabagas in Madison, WI, take a look at one and ask owner Darren Bush what he thinks about the boat.

I'm going to give you a couple "Links" and some pics of mine:
Trapper Review
Trapper Youtube

I think it would probably help everyone make some suggestions if we knew a little more about what you expect from this new boat. What type of tripping will it be used for? Are you a go fast paddler or a get there type? I love my Wenonah advantage that I got used for $300 it weighs #41, but I don't think it would be a very good river canoe, it likes to go fast and straight.

Looking for a canoe for weekend canoe camp trips, small streams in Iowa and MN, BWCA (been 3 times, last in 2008), fishing. My sons would continue to accompany in their own boats, but I'm considering solo too. I'm 55, 5'8",185, cancer free for a year and a half. Would like a tandem canoe under 60lbs. but my wife isn't interested in canoe camping.

I have had two solos. A Wenonah Voyager ultralight kevlar. . .17 feet long and 35 lbs. Great boat for going fast and long distances on larger water. Not so great on small rivers requiring lots of maneuvering

I now own a Wenonah Wilderness in royalex, 15 1/2 feet and 52 lbs. Good compromise boat. Works well as a tripper in the BWCA and also can handle Kentucky rivers.

I have had shorter solos but found them hard to paddle straight or make any kind of time in or take any significant amount of gear.

Minimum length I would have for a solo is 15 feet.

I solo with an Old Town Pack. Got it used from Piragas for 550. I put my 80 pound dog up front and she is very steady. It is quite slow but with the dog that can be expected.I have done alot of river canoeing in Southern Mn. Never with my Old Town pack but I would expect it would be a great river solo canoe. Steady with somewhat of a keel and durable.

quote markaroberts: "I have had two solos. A Wenonah Voyager ultralight kevlar. . .17 feet long and 35 lbs. Great boat for going fast and long distances on larger water. Not so great on small rivers requiring lots of maneuvering

I now own a Wenonah Wilderness in royalex, 15 1/2 feet and 52 lbs. Good compromise boat. Works well as a tripper in the BWCA and also can handle Kentucky rivers.

I have had shorter solos but found them hard to paddle straight or make any kind of time in or take any significant amount of gear.

Minimum length I would have for a solo is 15 feet."

I totally agree with Mark Roberts. For a tripping solo canoe, 15' should be the minimum length to consider in my opinion.

Like Mark Roberts, I own a Wenonah Voyager and it's been my primary tripping solo canoe since 2004. But at 17' 6" and 46-pounds in the Kevlar Flex-Core lay-up, it's more boat than most prefer. (pictured below)

I personally love my Voyager, especially for the large lakes of the BWCAW, Quetico, Woodland-Caribou, and the wider, slower rivers of southern Wisconsin where I live.

The Voyager is definitely not an "all around" solo canoe, but I have eleven other solo canoes in my livery to choose from for other paddling conditions. The Voyager is still my "go to" Canoe Country solo tripper, although a have a couple of other solo canoes that are close in design and function.

I've owned and/or paddled countless other solo canoe as well, and in my opinion, you'd be better served by a 15' to 15.5' solo canoe. I think you'd be much happier with a solo canoe like a Wenonah Wilderness @ 15.5' or a Bell Merlin II @ 15', provided you can find a Merlin II used somewhere.

A Bell Rockstar @ 15.5' would also be a great choice, but much like the Bell Merlin II, it's no longer manufactured. Nevertheless, both the Merlin II and Rockstar turn up on Craigslist, or other online canoe classified ad sites periodically.

There are several other contenders in the 15' to 15.5' range, but they have limited distribution or they're newer designs that will be difficult to find used, (e.g., a Swift Keywaydin @ 15' or a Northstar Northwind @ 15.5').

All things being equal, a longer canoe will generally paddle more efficiently and carry more gear than a shorter canoe. Depending on the lay-up, or the material used in the hull construction, you won't gain a significant amount of weight over a shorter canoe either.

Hans Solo

With your budget constraints, you should look at used.

Other used boats that pop up from time to time are Hemlocks Peregrine (15 foot 9 in) and Curtis Nomad. 15 foot 4.


Blackhawk canoes had some tripping solos but I don't know enough of their line as to specify which were tourers.

Swift has had solos for a long time. Heron, Osprey, Shearwater (big boat) all are above 15 foot and available used.

Mad Rivers old Independence is highly regarded.

Colden makes the wonderful Nomad now but its not available used.

These are all Eastern boats, harder to find in the Midwest but over they years they have made their way that way a bit.

I don't intend to hijack this thread but I was wondering if anyone ever paddled a Wenonah Encounter. I've paddled the Prism and Advantage (don't make it anymore??) but thought this might work better for me in the BWCA or Quetico.

quote JackpineJim: "I don't intend to hijack this thread but I was wondering if anyone ever paddled a Wenonah Encounter. I've paddled the Prism and Advantage (don't make it anymore??) but thought this might work better for me in the BWCA or Quetico. "

Yes Jim I've paddled the Wenonah Encounter. When I ordered my Wenonah Voyager in 2004, it was a tough choice between the Voyager and the Encounter. I choose the Voyager because I liked the additionally edge in performance and top end speed of the Voyager vs. the Encounter. I also preferred the Voyager's more "lively" hull over the Encounter more initially stable feeling hull.

That's not to say the Encounter is a dog, because the Encounter tracks and paddles quite efficiently. But I just preferred the "feel" of the Voyager more.

That being said, even though I really love my Voyager, I still lusted for an Encounter. I recently got a good deal on a used Ultra-light Kevlar Encounter and couldn't resist adding an Encounter to my livery.

One justification for purchasing an Encounter was to gain added volume and initial stability for my 90-pound Golden Retriever. With me at approx. 210-pounds, and "Buddy" at 90-pounds, that's a 300-pound load before I even throw a day pack in the canoe.

Although my Voyager can and does handle both of us with gear, the Encounter's additional volume and wider gunnel width is more "comfortable" for hauling Buddy and gear, even though the Encounter is 6" shorter than the Voyager @ 17' 6".

Additionally, my 18-year old son is becoming more interested in canoe tripping and the Encounter provides a dryer ride than the Sawyer DY Special he currently uses. He also likes to fish more than I do and the Encounter's initial stability provides a good fishing platform, much like the Sawyer DY Special vs. the Voyager.

As Wenonah Encounter owner's can tell you though, the Encounter demands a load, especially placed behind the solo canoeist's paddling station. Due to the Encounter's depth and volume, it can be greatly affected by wind if the hull isn't pushed down into the water a bit.

As far as the Wenonah Advantage's availability, much like the Jensen C1W, Sundowner 18, Jensn18, etc., you can still have Wenonah build an Advantage for you, even though they don't list the Advantage in their recent catalogs. In fact, Piragis Northwoods Outfitters lists the Advantage in their catalog and on their website.

The Wenonah Advantage would be a better choice over the Encounter for light-tripping or day paddling. The Advantage is fast, initially stable IMHO, and can still carry a decent amount of gear for a week's trip in the BWCAW, Quetico, etcetera.

I own several Sawyer solo canoes that compare very closely to the Advantage @ 16' 6", (i.e., Sawyer DY Special @ 16' 8" and Shockwave @ 16' 8"). Like the Advantage, the Sawyer DY Special and Shockwave are great "Canoe Country" solo tripping canoes. But, like the Advantage, they don't have the volume of the Encounter or Voyager.

Also, due to their sharper entry lines, lack of bow flare, lower hull depth and volume, the Advantage and the aforementioned Sawyer solo canoes are a wetter ride than either the Encounter or Voyager.

The Encounter has considerably more bow flare than the Advantage and even the Voyager to deflect oncoming waves, similar to the original 18' 6" Wenonah Odyssey tandem tripping canoe.

A Wenonah Prism probably offers the best compromise of all the aforementioned solo canoes I've mentioned. But in my opinion, the Advantage is more fun to paddle than the Prism and the larger Encounter and Voyager are better extended tripping solo canoes than the Prism, especially if you're a bigger guy and/or you're not a minimalist like me.

If at all possible, try to paddle an Encounter, Advantage and Prism after ice out if you have the opportunity. They're all fine solo canoes, but only you can determine which one feels and works the best for you.

Hans Solo

Wenonah will still make an Advantage for you. Piragis has had them in stock the last two years.

The Encounter (to me) is huge. Long and deep, slightly wide. Felt like the gunwales came up to my armpit. It takes a big paddler or a huge load to do justice to this hull.

quote Banksiana: "The Encounter (to me) is huge. Long and deep, slightly wide. Felt like the gunwales came up to my armpit. It takes a big paddler or a huge load to do justice to this hull."

What Banksiana said!

But for me at 6' 4" and 210-pounds, large solo canoes like the Wenonah Encounter @ 17', Voyager @ 17' 6", Jensen C1W @ 16' 6", and Mad River's Traveler @ 16' 3", work and feel good to me, especially for tripping.

Hans Solo

quote HansSolo: "

quote JackpineJim: "I don't intend to hijack this thread but I was wondering if anyone ever paddled a Wenonah Encounter. I've paddled the Prism and Advantage (don't make it anymore??) but thought this might work better for me in the BWCA or Quetico. "

Yes Jim I've paddled the Wenonah Encounter. When I ordered my Wenonah Voyager in 2004, it was a tough choice between the Voyager and the Encounter. I choose the Voyager because I liked the additionally edge in performance and top end speed of the Voyager vs. the Encounter. I also preferred the Voyager's more "lively" hull over the Encounter more initially stable feeling hull.

That's not to say the Encounter is a dog, because the Encounter tracks and paddles quite efficiently. But I just preferred the "feel" of the Voyager more.

That being said, even though I really love my Voyager, I still lusted for an Encounter. I recently got a good deal on a used Ultra-light Kevlar Encounter and couldn't resist adding an Encounter to my livery.

One justification for purchasing an Encounter was to gain added volume and initial stability for my 90-pound Golden Retriever. With me at approx. 210-pounds, and "Buddy" at 90-pounds, that's a 300-pound load before I even throw a day pack in the canoe.

Although my Voyager can and does handle both of us with gear, the Encounter's additional volume and wider gunnel width is more "comfortable" for hauling Buddy and gear, even though the Encounter is 6" shorter than the Voyager @ 17' 6".

Additionally, my 18-year old son is becoming more interested in canoe tripping and the Encounter provides a dryer ride than the Sawyer DY Special he currently uses. He also likes to fish more than I do and the Encounter's initial stability provides a good fishing platform, much like the Sawyer DY Special vs. the Voyager.

As Wenonah Encounter owner's can tell you though, the Encounter demands a load, especially placed behind the solo canoeist's paddling station. Due to the Encounter's depth and volume, it can be greatly affected by wind if the hull isn't pushed down into the water a bit.

As far as the Wenonah Advantage's availability, much like the Jensen C1W, Sundowner 18, Jensn18, etc., you can still have Wenonah build an Advantage for you, even though they don't list the Advantage in their recent catalogs. In fact, Piragis Northwoods Outfitters lists the Advantage in their catalog and on their website.

The Wenonah Advantage would be a better choice over the Encounter for light-tripping or day paddling. The Advantage is fast, initially stable IMHO, and can still carry a decent amount of gear for a week's trip in the BWCAW, Quetico, etcetera.

I own several Sawyer solo canoes that compare very closely to the Advantage @ 16' 6", (i.e., Sawyer DY Special @ 16' 8" and Shockwave @ 16' 8"). Like the Advantage, the Sawyer DY Special and Shockwave are great "Canoe Country" solo tripping canoes. But, like the Advantage, they don't have the volume of the Encounter or Voyager.

Also, due to their sharper entry lines, lack of bow flare, lower hull depth and volume, the Advantage and the aforementioned Sawyer solo canoes are a wetter ride than either the Encounter or Voyager.

The Encounter has considerably more bow flare than the Advantage and even the Voyager to deflect oncoming waves, similar to the original 18' 6" Wenonah Odyssey tandem tripping canoe.

A Wenonah Prism probably offers the best compromise of all the aforementioned solo canoes I've mentioned. But in my opinion, the Advantage is more fun to paddle than the Prism and the larger Encounter and Voyager are better extended tripping solo canoes than the Prism, especially if you're a bigger guy and/or you're not a minimalist like me.

If at all possible, try to paddle an Encounter, Advantage and Prism after ice out if you have the opportunity. They're all fine solo canoes, but only you can determine which one feels and works the best for you.

Hans Solo"

Thanks for the very useful review and advice Hans Solo. I'm looking forward to paddling those canoes this spring.

A couple points.

What is OP's preferred stance in a canoe, Kneeling, sit at medium height or sit low as in a kayak? What is the OP's preferred paddle choice? Logically we'd see straight blade with kneeling, bent with medium seating height and double paddle with low seating, but.....??

I am concerned with supernumeration; a tripping hull needs to be___ long.

Initially, hull length is usually measured from deck plate tips, this often has no bearing on waterline length, the only significant determinate of THEORETICAL forward speed. WeNoNah, among others, uses extreme layout at the stems to ease skittle extraction from one piece molds and for cosmetic reasons. Take a tape measure to the shop, most hulls max waterline is less than overall length, sometimes significantly.
The formula is the Square root of the length, in feet, X 1.55 to yield theoretical hull speed, but that isn't all that important.

Most of us paddle at about .6 of theoretical maximum because that's where wave making begins adding significantly to resistance. But wave making resistance is only part of the total.. Drag, or skin friction is the other significant factor; a function of skin condition and the surface area. Composites, particularly newer ones of those with scratches sanded out of gel coat have less friction than badly used composites or RX hulls. But longer hulls have more skin in the water than shorter ones, just as hemispheres minimize skin in the water and needle shapes maximize it.

So longer hulls are potentially faster but they have more drag; so require more effort to achieve that increased speed. A large man who is a skilled sit and switch paddler like Hans has found he likes the speed of longer hulls and has the strength and skill to overcome their resistance to achieve that speed. May not be tru of our OP. We don't know.

For a Midwestern guy weighing 185 wanting a moving water boat under $1K we're going to need to go used. He'll want bow rocker to maneuver, so Wilderness and the longer WeNoNah's are contra indicated. A newer solo paddler, he'll need differential rocker to help with tracking, probably need to go RX to stay withing desired price. Bell YellowStone Solos and WeNoNah Odysseys seem to fill that bill pretty well, a composite Bell Merlin II, MRC Indy or several Blackhawks might be available locally, and would be lighter.

Very frustrating, I seem to have signed in as a guest, so cannot edit my last input. ??

What I forgot to add is that shorter hulls are easier to paddle, ie less effort that longer ones at recreational speeds and with limited bio-mechanical output levels, shorter hulls may be faster. We need to match hull to burden and output levels.

Better and authoritative data is available in John Winters' Shape of the Canoe"

quote CharlieWilson: "What I forgot to add is that shorter hulls are easier to paddle, ie less effort that longer ones at recreational speeds and with limited bio-mechanical output levels, shorter hulls may be faster. "

Although I agree with Charlie's reply to a point, (because depending on the design of the canoe), it can certainly be true, especially for a smaller or lighter paddler. But load up a short canoe with a large paddler, and/or a week or two worth's of gear, and the waterline can be dramatically widened. With a load for tripping, or a large paddler, it will negate much of the smaller, shorter canoe's design advantage.

Case in point, Sawyer Canoe Company of Oscoda, Michigan was promoting the "shorter is easier paddling" concept with their sized solo canoes some 30-years ago. They marketed this concept with what they called "LER", (Low Energy Requirement) hull designs. (It's a lot of Harry Roberts' hyperbole, which I included below if anyone is interested).

Sawyer's 15' 4" SummerSong solo canoe was one of three solo canoes that were touted as Sawyer's LER design. (The others were the Starlite @ 13' 4" and the Autumn Mist @ 14' 10".)

I've paddled all of those canoes and despite my size, I really liked the Sawyer SummerSong @ 15' 4", the best of the three, at least to me. I purchased a Goldenglass Summersong in 1983 primarily for Wife, who's 5' 3" and 135-pounds. A few years later, I sold it to my nephew, (who is 6' 1" & 175-pounds), when I upgraded my Wife to a SummerSong with the Expedition Kevlar lay-up, which we still own.

Although the SummerSong was acquired for her, I've used, and still use the SummerSong for day paddling, and it works great for that. It's a very quick and pleasant solo canoe to paddle.

The SummerSong gets up to hull speed and maintains it quite easily. The negative is, any major amount of gear or load beyond my 210-pounds really widens the waterline, and in turn, noticeably slows the canoe.

Also, I use my longer, "sit and switch" solos for working out on local waterways when I'm not canoe-camping. The SummerSong will noticeably "top out" when I really drive the hull, unlike my longer solos.

Furthermore, as much as I like the SummerSong, it just feels too small for me for serious tripping on the big lakes of "Canoe Country". Not to mention my 90-pound Golden Retriever is out of the question when tripping with any amount of gear in it.

The SummerSong I had sold to my nephew has worked well for him, but if, and when he brought his German Shepherd along on a trip, the dog's additional weight really affected the SummerSong's performance.

Additionally, I also own a Royalex Yellowstone Solo, and I'd never consider using it for a week's trip in the BWCAW, Quetico, etc., but for the intended purpose I bought it for, (small streams, rivers and weekend trips on local Wisconsin rivers), it's a blast!

I agree the Yellowstone Solo might be great for a smaller paddler, even with light gear. But all physics and design concepts aside, it may not have the initial stability a new solo canoeist would prefer. This is especially true if seated in an empty Yellowstone Solo while paddling and/or fishing.

The same would apply to many of the Blackhawk solo canoes as well, in my opinion. Nice solo canoes, but generally intended for a kneeling paddler, and they lack the initial stability that would be comfortable for most beginning solo paddlers or anglers. That said, the secondary stability of most Blackhawk solo canoes are generally fantastic.

Among the many solo canoe I own, a Blackhawk Ariel @ 15' 1" is one of them. To be honest though, it's just not me and it will be going to a paddler that will appreciate it more than I do once the paddling season begins.

Finally, a larger/longer solo canoe will carry more gear than a shorter/smaller canoe. Somewhat important for a "Canoe Country" tripping canoe.

Hans Solo

(Pictured below from left to right; Sawyer SummerSong, the Bell Yellowstone Solo on the Kickapoo River, Sawyer's LER marketing blurb, and my Blackhawk Ariel.)

BTW, the large, black trash bags in the stern of my Bell Yellowstone Solo is filled with empty beer and soda cans. I had cleaned-up a trashed campsite disposed the trash at a dumpster in Wildcat Mountain State Park on my way down river.

Try whatever you are thinking about getting so you will not have regrets. I personally enjoy tripping in shorter hulls. I often trip in a 13' or 14' hull.