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 Boundary Waters Quetico Forum Trip Planning Forum Time to move up to Quetico? Reply
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| Previous Messages: | |
| Author | Message Text |
| joewildlife |
06/28/2021 06:20PM Not to be selfish but if you guys love Quetico then consider what the results might be if your talking it up results in more visitation. All these "first time going to BWCA" will be "first time going to Quetico " posts in a year or two. It is the natural progression of things. I don't think this forum is really a problem, but if you are on the Facebook page, you can see that social media has changed the game. You can talk about the wilderness experience, the difficulty, the hardships, and all that...but getting into the BWCA is just a canoe ride harder and sometimes carrying your gear..."harder" than car camping. Social media is doing nothing more than exposing the truth. A day, and you are in "Entry Point lakes" where Yogi makes the rounds every night (The Agnes Bear, for example). Those places are plumb full up and are getting trashed as a result. Making it harder on the folks who bust their ass day one to get away from it all....now it takes two days. And then it still doesn't work. Last year BWCA had 15,000 more visitors than the year before. That is what, 60,000 to 75,000 more user days? That is a huge increase. Hey I like to be helpful but sometimes the best thing to do is to just be quiet. I get the arguments that people have to experience the BWCA in order to appreciate it and want it protected. But it is being loved to death. I'm no snob and no elitist either, I'm no better than anybody else as appreciating the wilderness. But it's increasing popularity doesn't make it any easier, right? It is what it is, I will go further, go longer, go to Quetico, or go elsewhere to get what I want. But I don't feel ethically bound to be helpful when the result is just ruining it for people who want a better experience. I've never seen a group of 6 people in Quetico. You want more of that? Joe |
| billconner |
06/25/2021 06:09PM Or BWCA in September and October when it isn't crowded. And of course the nearby for me Adirondacks, where the water trails have not become terribly crowded and its free. Whether the higher per site fee sticks where it's being tested or not, my opinion is it will be a long time before it comes to Quetico. And there are Kevin Callan's Ontario's Lost Canoe Routes, which are definitely not crowded. |
| Frenchy19 |
06/25/2021 01:37PMbillconner: "Frenchy19: "yellowcanoe: "I way prefer the Q for my solo and two person trips but money may be an object. I certainly hope it isn't. In the BWCA I look at other canoe parties as competition. In the Q I see them on the water or on ports and we sometimes have a chat that is not hurried." Two things. First, Quetico has not adopted this fee scale. Second, as is pretty much true in all life, you get what you pay for, so if the Q does adopt this fee, you are more than welcome to enjoy the more affordable, overcrowded BWCA. |
| Captn Tony |
06/25/2021 11:41AM To comment on your question the difference is although they are both wilderness areas. They bdub is a civilized wilderness, more people, better campsite, actually sit on toilets boxes, fishing is tougher. I like both, if you haven’t been to Quetico you should go at least once! |
| Captn Tony |
06/25/2021 11:38AMbillconner: "Frenchy19: "yellowcanoe: "I way prefer the Q for my solo and two person trips but money may be an object. I certainly hope it isn't. In the BWCA I look at other canoe parties as competition. In the Q I see them on the water or on ports and we sometimes have a chat that is not hurried." I think it’s all a matter of perspective. If you compare it to a resort or a motel it’s pretty cheap. If you compare it to the current costs it’s a big jump. I personally wish they would increase the cost per night and apply the proceeds to maintaining the bdub. |
| billconner |
06/24/2021 06:28PMFrenchy19: "yellowcanoe: "I way prefer the Q for my solo and two person trips but money may be an object. I certainly hope it isn't. In the BWCA I look at other canoe parties as competition. In the Q I see them on the water or on ports and we sometimes have a chat that is not hurried." I'm happy for you but $602 is not pretty darned affordable for me. |
| Frenchy19 |
06/24/2021 09:25AMyellowcanoe: "I way prefer the Q for my solo and two person trips but money may be an object. I certainly hope it isn't. In the BWCA I look at other canoe parties as competition. In the Q I see them on the water or on ports and we sometimes have a chat that is not hurried." I would not mind the fee change if applied to Quetico. In fact, I welcome it for the BWCA. I am not wealthy by any means, but even at $43/campsite a two week trip is pretty darn affordable. |
| pastorjsackett |
06/24/2021 06:57AM A few years ago we tried Quetico and now (prior to border closing) we were bouncing back and forth year to year--one in BWCA, one Quetico. There are things we enjoy about both. Fishing can be spectacular in the Q it's true but we also enjoy using bait from time to time. This year we caught plenty of fish on our side of the border. The most intriguing thing to me about crossing the border nowadays is not only fewer people, but exploring new territory and having new experiences. If one would drive to the BWCA for four nights, then Quetico for the same number of nights would be fun too in my estimation. Best of luck! |
| yellowcanoe |
06/23/2021 09:44AMFrenchy19: "Lawnchair107: "Frenchy19: "After the debacle that defined the BW experience last year, I am not going this year. First time in 22 years without a paddling trip. I am waiting until (hopefully) next year to get back into Quetico. During the peak season-summer-there is no comparison. That said, the only time I can go is mid June to Mid August due to my job, and I will never go to the BWCA again during those times." Frenchy my worry about 2022 is that Quetico will follow the fee structure in Temagami and Massassauga that was implemented this year.. Flat rate of $43 per campsite. I way prefer the Q for my solo and two person trips but money may be an object. I certainly hope it isn't. In the BWCA I look at other canoe parties as competition. In the Q I see them on the water or on ports and we sometimes have a chat that is not hurried. |
| ssava |
06/23/2021 08:56AM Just too many people. I like to travel every day, and I do not enjoy the stress of not being able to find a site. I did not encounter trashed sites like some did, and I am also not one who expects total solitude while out. In fact, I enjoy encountering people on portages and in passing on the water. I just believe-and have for a good 10 years or so-that the BW offers too many permits and the cost is too low. Decrease the number of permits and charge per person per day as is the case in Ontario and many of the issues the BW is seeing will decrease, in my opinion. " I ran into a Park Ranger several years ago. One of the problems that seems to be at least aware by the park service for us seeking wilderness aand solitude is that many more people and groups are not traveling but base camping for days. I am one of them after feeling that not enough time was available to fish if moving every day. It would seem that destination lakes accessed by 1 day of travel get clogged up. |
| Frenchy19 |
06/23/2021 08:41AMLawnchair107: "Frenchy19: "After the debacle that defined the BW experience last year, I am not going this year. First time in 22 years without a paddling trip. I am waiting until (hopefully) next year to get back into Quetico. During the peak season-summer-there is no comparison. That said, the only time I can go is mid June to Mid August due to my job, and I will never go to the BWCA again during those times." Just too many people. I like to travel every day, and I do not enjoy the stress of not being able to find a site. I did not encounter trashed sites like some did, and I am also not one who expects total solitude while out. In fact, I enjoy encountering people on portages and in passing on the water. I just believe-and have for a good 10 years or so-that the BW offers too many permits and the cost is too low. Decrease the number of permits and charge per person per day as is the case in Ontario and many of the issues the BW is seeing will decrease, in my opinion. |
| jillpine |
06/23/2021 08:17AM It’s been tough the past two years, no question. Right when one finally had the time and equipment, the border closed. I’m hopeful that next summer will finally be the time to go beyond the BWCAW. I’ll return a changed (wo)man. :) |
| mjmkjun |
06/23/2021 06:15AM I know, buckaroo. [Phil] Time to upgrade to Quetico. The 'dinosaur floaties toys' did it for me. :D (edited for a correction) |
| bobbernumber3 |
06/22/2021 07:55PM hahahaha That was a joke. |
| mjmkjun |
06/22/2021 04:51PMbobbernumber3: "lindylair: "bobbernumber3: "ssava: "bobbernumber3: "Once you go Q, you are a changed man." Deer in the headlights. hahahahaha |
| Lawnchair107 |
06/22/2021 10:07AMFrenchy19: "After the debacle that defined the BW experience last year, I am not going this year. First time in 22 years without a paddling trip. I am waiting until (hopefully) next year to get back into Quetico. During the peak season-summer-there is no comparison. That said, the only time I can go is mid June to Mid August due to my job, and I will never go to the BWCA again during those times." Bad experience, Frenchy? |
| Frenchy19 |
06/22/2021 08:58AM After the debacle that defined the BW experience last year, I am not going this year. First time in 22 years without a paddling trip. I am waiting until (hopefully) next year to get back into Quetico. During the peak season-summer-there is no comparison. That said, the only time I can go is mid June to Mid August due to my job, and I will never go to the BWCA again during those times. |
| bobbernumber3 |
06/22/2021 06:41AMlindylair: "bobbernumber3: "ssava: "bobbernumber3: "Once you go Q, you are a changed man." You are right. I got carried away trying to get a paddler excited about a new adventure. Rocks, trees, and water... all the same, and the fishing is no better. Save money with a BW trip. |
| eagle98mn |
06/21/2021 09:08PM I did a four night trip for my first Quetico trip a couple years ago. Entered at Cache Bay after a tow across Sag to Hook Island and made it well up into Saganagons. Next day we went up to Mack and hadn't seen anyone since the Silver Falls portage - this was mid-August. Third night we went to Kawnipi and finally bumped into a couple other groups. it had been 48 hours without seeing another group. Last night was on the south end of Saganagons and we had neighbors. My takeaway was that the crowd thins out quickly on that end as people head down the Falls Chain. Go the opposite way and you probably will have some solitude. If we hadn't been planning to put the miles on that we did, our first site on Saganagons would have been a very private spot for 4 nights. Short answer - yes, it is worth it even if you only have 4 nights! |
| lindylair |
06/21/2021 08:36PMbobbernumber3: "ssava: "bobbernumber3: "Once you go Q, you are a changed man." Overstated. Same land, same water, same topography. Fewer people, better fishing. More like the difference between 10th grade and 11th grade. :) |
| billconner |
06/21/2021 02:25PM I do prefer the Q but other than grills and thunder boxes, they are not terribly different in October, and what could be simpler than drive to entry point and fill out a self issued permit? |
| TrailZen |
06/21/2021 10:50AMbobbernumber3: "ssava: "bobbernumber3: "Once you go Q, you are a changed man." YES!! What bobbernumber3 said! TZ |
| ssava |
06/21/2021 10:21AMbobbernumber3: "ssava: "bobbernumber3: "Once you go Q, you are a changed man." PM incoming. Have questions! |
| Savage Voyageur |
06/21/2021 09:55AM You must know something we don’t. |
| bobbernumber3 |
06/21/2021 09:45AMssava: "bobbernumber3: "Once you go Q, you are a changed man." BWCAW won't seem like wilderness. Canada and Q permits and regs won't seem intimidating. WCPP and Wabakimi won't seem so far away. Designated campsites and pit toilets will seem overrated. It's like the difference between high school and college. |
| ssava |
06/21/2021 08:57AMmarsonite: "OK, let's assume they open the border, issue RABC's, and open the Prairie Portage Ranger Station. I think there are plenty of trips you could do in the Quetico that could be done in 4 nights. No more effort than the BWCA really. You could do all or part of the Man chain depending on how much ground you wanted to cover in a day, you could head up Agnes and come back down the S chain, you could head into Poacher for some instant solitude...really there are plenty of options. I find you get solitude much faster than in the BWCA. Even a popular lake like Agnes, once you get past Louisa Falls, it gets quiet pretty quickly." This is quite helpful. We're typically a group of 6, single portage. First morning out is typically 5-6 hours so it appears we could get some distance across the border. We have been basecamping the last several years and day trip fishing. As I get older, the desire to be surrounded by nothing but the woods gets stronger. I think I have a plan for 2022! As usual, thank you to all. Such a great forum! |
| ssava |
06/21/2021 08:52AMbobbernumber3: "Once you go Q, you are a changed man." How so? Tell me more! |
| TrailZen |
06/21/2021 07:16AMmarsonite: "A tow saves you about two hours of paddling, so it's not essential. I have never gotten a tow out, but have gotten a tow in a number of times. If I only had four nights I'd probably get the tow in. " As marsonite points out, paddling from the Moose public landing to Prairie Portage is two hours. After two days in the car, we're not interested in a tow. We've spent Quetico 'first nights' (from Moose) in North Bay, on Agnes, on Burke, on Sunday, and on Louisa. Granted, our trips focus on distance, new lakes/portages, and pictographs, not fishing or base camping. But a four-night trip in Quetico (from Moose, no tow) could be great fun, and the paddlers would probably encounter far fewer people than when covering similar mileage in the BWCA. We're still hoping for a late-August/early-September 2021 Quetico trip.. TZ |
| marsonite |
06/20/2021 09:54PMjillpine: "Does the four days include paddling to PP, or a tow? " A tow saves you about two hours of paddling, so it's not essential. I have never gotten a tow out, but have gotten a tow in a number of times. If I only had four nights I'd probably get the tow in. |
| jillpine |
06/20/2021 08:39PM Does the four days include paddling to PP, or a tow? |
| marsonite |
06/20/2021 07:52PM OK, let's assume they open the border, issue RABCs, and open the Prairie Portage Ranger Station. I think there are plenty of trips you could do in the Quetico that could be done in four nights. No more effort than the BWCA really. You could do all or part of the Man Chain depending on how much ground you wanted to cover in a day, you could head up Agnes and come back down the S chain, you could head into Poacher for some instant solitude...really there are plenty of options. I find you get solitude much faster than in the BWCA. Even a popular lake like Agnes, once you get past Louisa Falls, it gets quiet pretty quickly. |
| bobbernumber3 |
06/20/2021 07:38PM Once you go Q, you are a changed man. |
| Ausable |
06/20/2021 07:15PM I understand your dilemma, I think. 4 nights is not a lot of time. Based on my trips in the Q, I would consider 4 nights to be the minimum, but I've never spent fewer than 6 nights in either the Q or the BWCA. I would encourage you to try the Q; I think that you will enjoy it. Seclusion, if you define it as an absolute lack of other people, will be very hard to obtain in 4 nights, but you will notice that fewer people are present. Although, there was a solo trip in the BWCA during which for 3 days I saw not another soul; but that was not a 4-night trip. |
| jillpine |
06/20/2021 07:00PM Hi Ssava. I’ve never paddled in Quetico PP or any other Ontario PP so I can’t speak from personal experience. But what I can tell you is that I’ve paddled in the BWCAW since the early ‘80’s and have spent the past two years going solo, five trips last year and same this year. Four days is an easy-access to the BWCAW, which is likely part of the issue - it’s easy access for many. I saw dinosaur floatie toys on Brule this past trip. I have a couple trips planned for Ontario in 2022; neither would lend itself it well to 4 days. I’ll be interested in the replies. Beth |
| tumblehome |
06/20/2021 06:04PM Border is still closed. You can’t get to the Q. |
| TrailZen |
06/20/2021 05:22PM I've played on both sides of the border, and both sides are wonderful. I've had Q trips during which I saw no one for three days and only a handful of people in 10 days; I haven't had that experience on the US side. Because it's a 1250-mile commute between home & canoe country for us, we're eagerly awaiting the reopening of the border... TZ |
| ssava |
06/20/2021 04:14PM I will start by asking, with 4 nights to work with, is getting into our northern neighbor worth the effort for seclusion? |
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