So after several years of thinking WCPP "maybe someday", I'm suddenly thinking this might be a great year for me to head further north to WCPP, in either July or August. I've read the WCPP brochure and watched several videos, but I'm curious to know what some of you might say would be key differences (experience, navigation, gear, etc) in a trip to WCPP, beyond fewer people and no existing fire grate? I'd be paddling in solo with my dog - no flying - for maybe 14 days, and have all my own gear. So what would be the same and different from the BWCA?

I've only been to the Southeast part of the park, Leano Entry. Superficially it's like the BWCA in that the lakes are on Canadian shield, but there's a lot of differences.

There isn't as much diversity in the forest: No Red or White Pine, black ash, etc. Lots of Jackpine and Black spruce, much of it quite small. There are frequent forest fires so there are a lot of young forests. There are areas with aspen and birch as well. There is a lot of reindeer moss growing on bare rock, with young jackpine/spruce forests. Very good blueberry picking if they are in season. Very little soil--quite a bit less than the BWCA actually, especially in the southern part of the park (I'm told that there is a lot more sand in the northern part of the park). There are a lot more swamps and bogs in the BW. I haven't been there in a heavy rain event, but I would think the creeks and drainages rise quickly and recede quickly. There isn't much storage of groundwater up there.

Fewer bugs. I've gone in August and scarcely encountered a mosquito. There are also fewer songbirds. Lots of loons, but in the forest about all you see are Juncos. (this was in August so maybe the warblers had gone south already).

In the BWCA, every drainage and practically every lake has different water. You'll go through some that are crystal clear, others that are stained dark as coffee, etc. In WCPP, the lakes are all pretty similar. Not clear exactly, but not tannin stained.

In this south part of the park, there are a lot of small lakes and very short portages. There isn't as much relief, but it is more rugged. Some of the portage landings are quite challenging--don't bring your new cedar strip canoe! My wife broke her foot on one that required us to wade on sharp, slippery rocks for about a hundred feet. No place for sandals!

Not that I mean to be off putting. I've loved my trips up there, and hope to go again soon!

I've been to the Boundary Waters three times, Wabakimi once and WCPP twice. I'm heading back to WCPP for the third time this year for three weeks. All my trips were/will be in the north central part of WCPP. I plan on exploring the northern part in future years.

That being said, I feel the fishing is so much better in WCPP that I wouldn't know how to compare it. I primarily target walleyes which are plentiful, to say the least. Northerns are ridiculously easy but I try to avoid them. The campsites are much better yet come with very little use. The landings at the campsites are great for the most part and most are connected to gradual sloping granite. Last year I did not get my feet wet once at a campsite landing and I camped at six different sites over a two week period. The portages are well maintained and the landings are as good or better than BWCA. Some portage entry/exits change a little due to fluctuating water levels but they're easy to figure out.....heck, that's half the fun. I think the scenery is gorgeous.....I especially love the Canadian Shield with it's exposed granite. There are some burn overs but they have a beauty unto themselves. It's nice to walk up a hill with new growth jack pine and be able to have great views the surroundings. Another thing to consider, as in the BWCA (mostly "old growth" ) WCPP is all "old growth forest"........the trees are just different spieces and not as tall due to the poorer soil conditions. Wind blow downs, fire and winter storm damage are all are part of the natural process. (The BWCA experienced a huge blow down some years ago). It's the same now as it was for thousands of years. There are more moose to be seen, especially on the rivers/creeks or back bays of the lakes. Fewer birds except loons which are plentiful. I encountered a lot of ducks/geese/swans on lakes that had wild rice beds last year. Eagles are common. To me WCPP is what wilderness canoe tripping is all about. One can explore till one's heart is content.

I also fished Red Lake (the town of which I access WCPP) for a number of years with motorized craft. The reason I bring that up is that I've have considerable contact with quite a few folks up there. The Canadian people are some of the nicest, most helpful and respectful folks I know. They have had a positive impact on my life.

Without diminishing the BWCA, this is how I would compare the two in one sentence .
WCPP is to BWCA as BWCA is to a city park.

Make the trip.....it might be a game changer for you as it was for me.

Safe travels........Mike

I've never been up there either and want to know if I would have trouble finding suitable trees to hammock camp with? I think 10 inch diameter would be the minimum.

I stopped going to the BWCA largely because a few times I had to wait in line at a portage trail. No thanks.

Then I moved to the Quetico, much more my style.

Then onward to WCPP. The beauty of WCPP is more subtle than that of the Quetico. Many could argue that the Quetico is actually a visually more beautiful area. But there is just something about WCPP which gets into your system.

Rumor has it that the bugs can be horrendous before August. But that is merely a rumor for me as I go in August and bugs are basically non existent. Nice. I would disagree with Mpeebles somewhat on using the term "nice" to describe campsites. There are very few 5 star sites in WCPP where in the Quetico they are far more common. Sites in WCPP tend to be of the more primitive type since they see far less usage. Obviously I am cool with that or I wouldn't go.

The biggest difference for the uninitiated is the difficulty in finding portage trails. WCPP is VERY different than BWCA in that regard. Portage trails in BWCA or even the Quetico are typically somewhat obvious. Not always the case in WCPP. I like to pay strict attention where I am at on the map at all times and when I get close I know to slow down and pay attention. What looks like a beaver run may just be my portage trail. Old blazes on the trees is one of your best indicators. They will be faded but they are there for the observant.

So yes, route finding can be challenging and the campsites are a bit more rugged but the challenge and satisfaction of traveling in this country is very satisfying. Plus the concept of not seeing anyone, sometimes for a couple of weeks is kinda cool as well. Did I mention the fishing is good?

Give it a shot. Why not? You may be underwhelmed at first..........but if you are in for a couple of weeks you start to mutter to yourself "this is so cool" ;-)

I am probably on for August for most of the month on a solo myself.

I too was hooked on WCPP after my first visit in the Leano area. My second trip there was in the Royd area and has become my favorite area of the park. I enjoy the lack of underbrush and deep moss of WCPP. This allows peering well back into the forest as you paddle or relax at the little used campsites. There is no anxiety about finding an unoccupied campsite in WCPP. You will find it best to stay at the established sites but if weather or sunset prevents it there are plentiful rock outcrops that will provide a low impact camp for the night. The open forest of WCPP make it enjoyable to wander and check out the views from far above the water. Spruce Grouse, Juncos and Merlins are numerous in the open forests. Other bird life really picks up where small brush streams enter the lakes. Finding portages in WCPP just takes more attention. Except on the well used routes grass and reeds may obscure the portage landing. You may have to walk inland 5 meters and walk parallel to the shore to spot remote portages. The payoff is knowing you are the only one in the area. Many will share their gps info and that really makes the navigation easy. Mention your route and others will get you good campsite locations. I think knowing there are good camps ahead allows for a more relaxed trip.

I'll only echo what others have already posted but it's a great place for even greater solitude and exploration. Fishing is great just about everywhere. Campsites are far more rugged but there are some gems out there. On the couple of trips I've made through the 3 or 4 EPs I've been in, you will generally find that what may pass for the standard 2 or 3 star in BW is a 3+ to 4 star in the WCPP. Lots of black spruce, jackpine that are short and stubby. Haning a food barrel is generally not possible but I've done it a handful of time. With the exception of one entry (Lund Lake), portages are generally shorter but can be quite overgrown and more difficult to locate. You will find them, but you have to keep looking. I've only been turned away once where a portage had been obliterated by growth and blowdown and I'm stillnot sure if I should not have just tried to push through. I good handsaw such as a 21" Corona razor tooth is handy if not essential. There can be frequent, highly-localized thunderstorms to the point where it's blowing and down-right dangerous on one lake and on a neighborting lake it's clear and sunny. Be prepared. Take a personal locator. Have a ditch bag and a plan always....then relax and enjoy yourself as you paddle about! You can go days, maybe an entire trip without seeing anyone depending on your route.

The boundary Waters always intrigued me. My dad had a couple maps on his wall in his shop from trips he took in the early fifties. In my early twenties I just dove in and loved it. I started paddling what's now Atikaki in Manitoba just across the border from WCPP. Just when I was getting into it I started a family and had to concentrate on that a while. Still tripped in the BW but got less as business boomed. I got back at it after kids grew and my son got me thinking WCPP. We got a trip together and spent ten days just loving it there. I went back every year until now I'm unable to do much canoeing. There are times you can't hear anything but your own heart pounding itcan be so quiet. The leano to Mexican Hat trip is a most common trip as even on the map mirrors the BWCA. But there is so much more. BWCA is a great resource that we need to hang on to. WCPP is a lot more wild though IMO and deserves some serious thought. At this stage of the game if your planning on a July or August trip I'd talk to red lake outfitters and get a little help. Usually I'd spend all winter setting up logistics and such. There are portages and all imbedded in my head that when I need a fix I can lay back and remember so much beauty and peace in that place.
The boundary Waters is maybe a bit more forgiving... WCPP a little more of an adventure... My opinion....

TomT: "I've never been up there either and want to know if I would have trouble finding suitable trees to hammock camp with? I think 10 inch diameter would be the minimum.
"

I did a trip with a hammock. We more base camped than everyday travel.
I was able to hang, but did have to tie my trees to other trees further back on occasion.
In WCPP be prepared to sleep on the ground as the black spruce and jackpine are pretty spindly and have very shallow roots.

I agree with Marten. I just got back from a short bwca trip, first one in several years. It is pretty hard to go anywhere off an established trail. Another huge difference is firewood availability, especially where there has been a burn in the last 10-15 years. I don’t bring any stakes anymore because there is just no place to drive them in, maybe in the very northern regions you will occasionally find some. I have never really had an issue finding portage’s. The couple I did have trouble with were quite memorable. There is orange tape making some, worn out tree blazes and rock cairns. There are not many EPs so those routes that have easier access see a lot more use.

Enjoy the trip.

I appreciate everyone's responses, and have read each at least twice. More fish and fewer people I expected of course, but some things mentioned surprised me: fewer bugs, fewer large white/red pines, fewer song birds, less undergrowth, less variety of water color to name a few - very interesting. And less top soil - immediately made me think my Nemo Losi requires two stakes front and back for the vestibule. I've already started making 4 rock-anchors and will leave most or all my stakes at home. Better make a couple extra for the tarp too.

I guess I sort of expected the harder to find portages, but that is good to hear. Will have to remember to watch carefully for the aged blaze marks and be more patient. Getting coordinates from others will not help me as I don't plan to bring a GPS - I just love my maps and compass too much. I did get a PLB a few years ago though.

My route is still being developed, but will likely start at Leano. I think I can't resist the idea of that hard drive in - I believe my buggy is up to it. Maps are currently being acquired.

The Purcell Trench grill has been ordered, and a bigger than normal summer saw and axe added to the list - more for clearing blow down than fire wood processing. May just bring what I bring for winter camping.

Very curious about the landings at both portages and camp sites. I usually wear rubber boots, but am strongly leaning at bringing hiking boots for better support in rugged areas. I detest wet feet, but it seems more prudent given the remoteness.

Oddly packing food is one of my bigger dilemmas. I have a 30 liter barrel, but find between my gourmet appetite and dog's 1.33 lbs of food per day I can fill it quite easily for an 8-9 day trip. I could go to a 60, add another 30, or may just think of hanging half my stuff for a the first week.

MT - I was particularly intrigued by your comment "you will be underwhelmed....at first". I get that. I went through that as I became more active in winter camping - and am now crazy about it for many of the same reasons you all go to WCPP or beyond.

Last question on my mind (for now): if fishing is so great, is there any need to bring a fish locator?? I invested in a Garmin Striker 4 for my spring trip (again on MT's advice "fish where the fish are" in another thread). It was very helpful two weeks ago on Knife Lake, but in WCPP - if I'm only looking for a couple modest fish for the fry pan (I'm not a big trophy or numbers hunter), maybe I could just leave it at home for this??

I bring stakes as well as sand anchors so I am easily able to secure to a rock for a tent anchor if I desire. I actually bring along sand anchors wherever I camp as they are light enough. I detest tying cordage directly to rocks for several reasons. There is enough soil to usually use at least few stakes most of the time. Campmor has inexpensive well made sand anchors.........I add a teeny biner to collect the loose loops and have something to easily tie to. "Hassle Free" is my motto after all.

As per depth finder.........I think much depends on time of year, the lake you are focusing on, how much fishing is a priority etc. Up until mid summer you can just be like the master WCPP traveler Marten and troll a pink daredevil around and catch the evenings meal easily enough without a depth finder.

But if fishing is the main course, then a depth finder becomes an indispensable tool, particularly later in the year. I did, however, find average sized walleye hanging out is relatively shallow water even in August making them easier to find and catch.

Not much for trees to hang your grub in. I would focus on being as odor free as is possible. If you have plenty of dough consider getting a few Watershed duffels, especially for the dog food. They close very tightly indeed with a waterproof seal down to 30ft. Otherwise make good use of Ziplock bags. Even with Zip Locks I like putting the initial zip lock into an even larger zip lock.........doubling them as it were. A bruins world is its nose............on the positive side of the bear equation is there are no habituated bears in areas like WCPP which does not get lots of hapless campers staying at the same sites night after night. So while the potential is always there it is less so than one might think.

I would expect bugs to be tough in June and july. I have not been there at that time frame but thats my suspicion. Dress accordingly. Original Bug shirt is hard to beat as a good windbreaker and bug shirt with a built in headnet. August bugs are usually gone! Hurrah!

One last thought.........bring the big saw but ditch the axe. The saw, especially if it is a good one, will get done what you need. The axe is just extra weight and fraught with the potential for an injury. I am just going to be bringing a little winky silky. I am pretty sure the routes have been cleaned up from the blow down of several years ago.

TomT: "I've never been up there either and want to know if I would have trouble finding suitable trees to hammock camp with? I think 10 inch diameter would be the minimum.
"

Two of our group last year were hangers. We were never in a recently-burned area, which obviously would negatively impact your ability to hang...

Once we did pass on a site only because there were no good hanging trees. Every other site they were able to make something work.

Great place...you'll be glad you went.

I think it real hard to talk about generalities when it comes to WCPP.
Most lakes were very stained, like Kawnipi or even darker, the clearest was Wrist which was similar to Agnes.
I camped on a rock once, but stakes worked fine on every other campsite.
No, there is no red or white pine to speak of, but the forests range from just burned to old growth, and conditions from super thick to what I hear can be pretty open. You really need to talk to Harlan at Red Lake Outfiters, and others about specifics of where you are going.

We didn't have much difficulty finding portages, though you generally have to be close. You can't seen them from hundreds of yards away, that is for sure. Look for the blazes and the cairns. But even dandelions and fine graded turf grass are easy indicators of a portage.

My Kevlar canoes took a beating, because the landings were pretty poor at a lot of campsites and portages. Gelcoat is sacrificial, anyway. That's what Krugers are for anyway.

Campsites are generally smaller and less-used, but there are exceptions.
No trash, the place was virtually free of anything left behind. Including TP.

Overall, I describe WCPP as more "raw". More rock, thinner soils. The fishing is awesome, absolutely no problem catching dinner 10 or 10 nights, in the first half of June.
Unless I was looking for lakers later in the summer, I don't see a need for a fishfinder.

My takeaway from my first trip is that more research is warranted for my next, and maybe for you too. To find out things that better match your preferences on everything from water clarity, fish species, forest type, and remoteness. It doesn't feel very remote when you paddle past a cabin or find fishing boats parked at the ends of the portages, and yes there are places like that in the park.

I used a 60L barrel and recommend that for you. Unless your dog likes moose poop. If he does, he won't need any other food, they are everywhere.
Joe

joewildlife: "I think it real hard to talk about generalities when it comes to WCPP.
Most lakes were very stained, like Kawnipi or even darker, the clearest was Wrist which was similar to Agnes.
I camped on a rock once, but stakes worked fine on every other campsite.
No, there is no red or white pine to speak of, but the forests range from just burned to old growth, and conditions from super thick to what I hear can be pretty open. You really need to talk to Harlan at Red Lake Outfiters, and others about specifics of where you are going.



My takeaway from my first trip is that more research is warranted for my next, and maybe for you too. To find out things that better match your preferences on everything from water clarity, fish species, forest type, and remoteness. It doesn't feel very remote when you paddle past a cabin or find fishing boats parked at the ends of the portages, and yes there are places like that in WCPP.



"

Excellent points for picking your route in WCPP. Claire at the park office, Harlan and others can direct you to areas that match your criteria. Old growth gives you the open understory, the Gammon River has boat caches at the portages, fire recovery means decades of thick Jackpine growth etc. Tap that knowledge base when selecting your area to paddle.

Be aware of fly-in resorts and motorboats on some lakes when planning your route. On day three after viewing pictographs and portaging a waterfall, I set my canoe down to find two guys fishing below the falls in a motorboat drinking beer. My "wilderness experience" was affected quite a bit.

bobbernumber3: "Be aware of fly-in resorts and motorboats on some lakes when planning your route. On day three after viewing pictographs and portaging a waterfall, I set my canoe down to find two guys fishing below the falls in a motorboat drinking beer. My "wilderness experience" was affected quite a bit."

Once you venture away from the motor restrictions of the BWCA and ,Quetico a little research allows you to find canoe routes for the true solitude WCPP is known for. Most of the motors will be on the Bloodvein and Gammon Rivers. Those rivers make for easier travel but a few boats can't be avoided on them. In these threads you may want t to notice how many times Haven and Mexican Hat Lakes are mentioned. Great lakes but there is great fishing in the less traveled waters too, and you will probably have them to yourself!!

bobbernumber3: "Be aware of fly-in resorts and motorboats on some lakes when planning your route. On day three after viewing pictographs and portaging a waterfall, I set my canoe down to find two guys fishing below the falls in a motorboat drinking beer. My "wilderness experience" was affected quite a bit."

I have spent over 40 days in WCPP and I have never met another person on a portage. In fact I have never seen another canoe during that time. But one time I was approaching the portage from Royd to Gammon Lake. There were two boats there, one running and the other one trying to figure out how to start the motor. I paddled within 20' of them without them noticing me. When one of them finally looked up he so surprised he almost fell out of the boat. Four guys from Iowa enjoying the wilderness and some good fishing. I don't think I ruined their experience. They certainly didn't ruin mine. After not seeing anyone for 5 days I enjoyed the 10 minute conversation.

Like Martin said, there are two or three main routes that probably get used more than all the rest combined.