Hi

I am beginning to plan a trip for myself and several friends for a first time Boundary Waters trip. We are a group that is well experienced in the outdoors with many week-long backpacking trips every year and kayaking trips through Kenai Fjord NP.

We are looking for a trip that can get us to some remote areas and away from people. I know that no one trip checks all the boxes, but looking for good scenery, good campsites, wildlife and fishing. We are OK with 1-2 difficult portages and some easier ones as needed.

Can anyone give advice on some possible good route options?

Also wondering if anyone could suggest an Outfitter? We are looking for an Outfitter that will help us plan a unique trip...not just a cookie-cutter trip that they send many other people on.

Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.

Go to the Q
Many options

Maybe this ?

Your dates are after school starts and much of the BWCA quiets down. Weekend day trippers remain an issue, but only on entry area lakes. It can be dry and some rivers low or a possible fire ban; and weather is just becoming interesting. The water is still warm enough to swim.

I have always enjoyed the Ely area trip Moose-Knife-Kekeabic-Ima and exit through Ensign back to Moose. A comfortable five day loop offering a good variety of BWCA terrain and things to do. The extra two days can be base camp or there if wind restricts travel. You mentioned kayak tripping and canoes are similar, but not the same. If you know the differences, okay, but if not best factor some learning curve into the planning.

Trip reports (and TB writes some great reports) can be reviewed to get an idea of what the areas others will recommend are like and along with the map features and its comments can make for some fun winter evenings dreaming about a trip to come. I have been tripping the BWCA since 1979 and the trip reports and maps are my primary sources for planning.

Here's an idea that includes some fairly remote areas - with bhouse's comment that traffic is less that time of year(at least during the week) you should find some good seclusion, beautiful scenery, sand beach sites if you like those, and good fishing.
It's a trip I have wanted to take but just haven't made it yet(I have been on the first third of it and several of the other lakes on other trips)

Kawishiwi Lake entry north through Polly and up to Malberg for first night, about a 6-7 hour paddle. Over to River Lake, down to the portage to Alice and over to Insula one of two ways. Up to Kiana, Thomas and Fraser and over to Roe and Cap and down to Boulder Lake. This is a very remote area of the BWCA.

Down through Treasure/Adams and Beaver and to the Kawishiwi River on your way back to Malberg one of two ways. Head out the next day or take two days.

Great area, there will be a few interesting portages but nothing ridiculous. You will see several classic BWCA lakes including Malberg, Alice, Insula and Thomas and have options to shorten and/or lengthen the trip along the way. Being first timers I would recommend planning a day or two for a layover due to weather or just cuz you are worn out and want to relax. Breaking camp everyday is not what it is about, can be done, but I find trips to be better with a day or two of leisure built in.

There are a couple good outfitter options for this trip including Sawtooth Outfitters near Tofte and Sawbill not too far from the entry point. Either will work well. They will load the canoes on your vehicle for you in most cases.

I would recommend choosing a route first - many times people choose an outfitter first and then they are very limited in their route choices. Most all of them are very good up there.

This would be an epic trip for many of us - and on your first one! At my age I am not sure I will ever get to do it, perhaps. Knowing what I know now and if I was 10 years younger I would do this trip in a heartbeat.

What are peoples thoughts on trips into Quetico? Pros? Cons?

I have been looking a lot of different route options and seems that they are generally broken up into trips in the more "west" region, departing from Entry Points 14, 16, 19, 20 and 23. The other area I see lots of options is more "east" and departing from Entry Points 55, 54 and Sawbill road. Lastly, there seems to be a decent amount of options from 25, 26 and 27. Based on those 3 general geographic areas, is there much difference? I am trying to narrow down the general region we want to be in, then I can figure out an exact route. Is there much of a difference between East and West BWCA? Different scenery? More or less crowded? fishing different?

Dan Magdoff: "What are people's thoughts on trips into Quetico? Pros? Cons?

I have been looking a lot of different route options and seems that they are generally broken up into trips in the more "west" region, departing from Entry Points 14, 16, 19, 20 and 23. The other area I see lots of options is more "east" and departing from Entry Points 55, 54 and Sawbill road. Lastly, there seems to be a decent amount of options from 25, 26 and 27. Based on those 3 general geographic areas, is there much difference? I am trying to narrow down the general region we want to be in, then I can figure out an exact route. Is there much of a difference between East and West BWCA? Different scenery? More or less crowded? fishing different? "

These are general characteristics....

West side = more people, lower lying lakes and portages. Less trout, more walleye waters.

East side = obviously just the opposite. Also, many of the north-south can be fairly steep

Dan Magdoff: "What are peoples thoughts on trips into Quetico? Pros? Cons?


I have been looking a lot of different route options and seems that they are generally broken up into trips in the more "west" region, departing from Entry Points 14, 16, 19, 20 and 23. The other area I see lots of options is more "east" and departing from Entry Points 55, 54 and Sawbill road. Lastly, there seems to be a decent amount of options from 25, 26 and 27. Based on those 3 general geographic areas, is there much difference? I am trying to narrow down the general region we want to be in, then I can figure out an exact route. Is there much of a difference between East and West BWCA? Different scenery? More or less crowded? fishing different?
"

The general differences were mentioned already. More elevation/topo differences in the east especially off the Gunflint trail. (Road going generally N from Grand Marais to Saganaga) I'd say there are 3 real areas, west based out of Ely, center accessed from the south generally in the Sawbill area, and east is Gunflint trail. In general more lake trout and deeper, clearer lakes in the middle to east. More walleye and tan water to the west but there are still plenty of lake trout west and walleye east you might just need to pick your lakes more carefully. There are lesser used and popular entry points in all areas. In general the farther from an entry you go the less people you might see. An entry with 9 permits per day will probably be busier than one with 1 per day. (Cause you're the only one going in that day) But the higher quota entries also have more campsites and route options to allow for the higher traffic so it shouldn't feel 9x as busy.

Waterfalls in the west, middle, and east. More overlook type views in the east. Outfitters in all 3 areas. Small rivers in all 3, big lakes in all 3.

If Quetico is an option, consider the Hunter Island loop. In the 130 mile range - 20 a day is a good clip - but doable. Epic route.

Less challenging states the same - PP up Man Chain to Falls, them McEwen chain to Agnes and back to PP. 70-75 miles. A little challenging for two 60+ year old guys in six nights, but a great trip.

I wouldn't go to anyone other than Canoe Country Outfitters in Ely and on Moose Lake, but generally they are all good or they wouldn't be in business, making a year's income in a third of a year.

lindylair: "Here's an idea that includes some fairly remote areas - with bhouse's comment that traffic is less that time of year(at least during the week) you should find some good seclusion, beautiful scenery, sand beach sites if you like those, and good fishing.
It's a trip I have wanted to take but just haven't made it yet(I have been on the first third of it and several of the other lakes on other trips)


Kawishiwi Lake entry north through Polly and up to Malberg for first night, about a 6-7 hour paddle. Over to River Lake, down to the portage to Alice and over to Insula one of two ways. Up to Kiana, Thomas and Fraser and over to Roe and Cap and down to Boulder Lake. This is a very remote area of the BWCA.


Down through Treasure/Adams and Beaver and to the Kawishiwi River on your way back to Malberg one of two ways. Head out the next day or take two days.


Great area, there will be a few interesting portages but nothing ridiculous. You will see several classic BWCA lakes including Malberg, Alice, Insula and Thomas and have options to shorten and/or lengthen the trip along the way. Being first timers I would recommend planning a day or two for a layover due to weather or just cuz you are worn out and want to relax. Breaking camp everyday is not what it is about, can be done, but I find trips to be better with a day or two of leisure built in.


There are a couple good outfitter options for this trip including Sawtooth Outfitters near Tofte and Sawbill not too far from the entry point. Either will work well. They will load the canoes on your vehicle for you in most cases.


I would recommend choosing a route first - many times people choose an outfitter first and then they are very limited in their route choices. Most all of them are very good up there.


This would be an epic trip for many of us - and on your first one! At my age I am not sure I will ever get to do it, perhaps. Knowing what I know now and if I was 10 years younger I would do this trip in a heartbeat.


"

We have been looking at this route and it looks pretty sweet. Is there any outfitter near this entry point someone could recommend?
THANKS!

Dan, I did this trip in 2016 except that I went directly from Alice to Thomas via Cacabic (see 2016 trip report). I usually just stay in Grand Marais when I go in that way and stop at Sawtooth Outfitters the day before to pick up my permit and canoe. They are located very near the bottom of the Sawbill Trail on Rt. 61 north. Or you could use Sawbill Outfitters and camp at their campground the night before. I've stayed there several times and it's about 30 minutes from Kawishiwi Lake.

lindylair's route is more ambitious than the one I proposed, but is one I have often contemplated. The Thomas/Frasier area is one of my favorites and just east of there gets pretty quiet, few venture there so campsites will be less developed and portages grown over, but passable, especially towards the end of a season. I usually base on Frasier and day trip back into this area.
You inquired about the Q. Obviously much more remote and many other positives, but more expensive, more administrative hoops.
I also want to revisit the kayak and canoe issue as paddling them is different. If you have experience no concern, but if not you should factor the learning curve in your first day or two of travel.

bhouse46: "lindylair's route is more ambitious than the one I proposed, but is one I have often contemplated. The Thomas/Frasier area is one of my favorites and just east of there gets pretty quiet, few venture there so campsites will be less developed and portages grown over, but passable, especially towards the end of a season. I usually base on Frasier and day trip back into this area.
You inquired about the Q. Obviously much more remote and many other positives, but more expensive, more administrative hoops.
I also want to revisit the kayak and canoe issue as paddling them is different. If you have experience no concern, but if not you should factor the learning curve in your first day or two of travel."

Bhouse46, could you give some more details about the route you described? I am trying to find it on my map to get a general idea about it.

I thought more about Q and it seems like we can find what we are looking for in BWCA with the right route and we can avoid this logistics of going into Canada.

Thanks for the info about canoe vs kayak. Most of our experience is in kayaks. We have done some canoeing, but not any multiway touring, so that is definitely something we need to consider.

Knowing that, what do you think we should plan on for a daily pace? We are willing to put in some hard work, and cover some ground. But, we also want to get into camp early enough to enjoy the area and have some fun and chill time.

THANKS!

I go in through Moose, EP 30 and paddle north to Birch, you can do a short portage which is where a tow will drop you, or paddle a little farther and through the channel. From Birch it is into a few short, easy portages and small lakes then to Knife. These portages allow me to shake down the gear packing and by Knife it is a smooth operation. An early start and tow can get you to Dorothy's island mid morning. Knife is one of the larger lakes and subject to wind after lunch. Carry a weather radio and monitor the winds.
Kayaks can handle wind and waves much better than most canoes and with limited experience you will want to avoid wind where there is whitecaps...at least at first. You might want to start a separate thread seeking input on what differences you will experience. Two I will mention, center of gravity is higher. Paddling with a bow and stern paddler is not the same as solo paddling, you are a team and usually bow is power and stern is steering...usually. And then there is a single blade paddle and the kayak paddle...
I find a campsite on the South Arm of Knife and enjoy. From there it is a steep climb over the ridge to Bonnie and on to Kekekabic where I find the island campsite a favorite. From there it is Frasier, Thomas and out through Ima and back through Ensign to Moose. There are good sites on Frasier and offer day tripping back to Roe and beyond. An early start with a light load and experienced paddlers can get you from Ima to the base on Moose in one day and still get to town for a great shower and dinner. Canoe Country Outfitters have a base in Ely with lodging and base on Moose.
You have the summer to find a place to rent some canoes and get familiar.

It sounds like you’re from Alaska, can’t tell. Compared to Alaska the bwca is Central Park. Quetico is really wild and the portages still exist, wabakimi is more wild than Alaska.