I'm thinking of ordering a Gemini iV tent from Exped.

My daughter is getting older and our Nemo Losi 3p is getting a bit tired and tight for the three of us.

I know the weight is a bit high, but I'm looking for something that is very durable and can handle high winds.

I do a kayak fishing and camping trip in Baja every year, and the winds can be extreme. My Marmot Limelight did not hold up to Baja winds on one trip. No damage to the tent, but the tent poles were being bent flat to ground during high wind gusts.

I haven't been able to find many reviews on this particular model. Does anyone have experience with this tent?

For that price I'd be looking at the Big Agnes Copper Spur HV UL 4. 5 lb tent vs 8 lb.

If you are having problems with your tent in high winds and bending the poles to the floor then you want to be looking at a 4 season tent. The difference is the tent poles are in sleeves on the tent, and to poles are a thicker diameter. I have a North Face two man 4 season tent. It’s rated for winds on mountains and snow.

Savage Voyageur: "If you are having problems with your tent in high winds and bending the poles to the floor then you want to be looking at a 4 season tent. The difference is the tent poles are in sleeves on the tent, and to poles are a thicker diameter. I have a North Face two man 4 season tent. It’s rated for winds on mountains and snow. "

I agree that a 4 season would be best for high winds, but I was hoping that the sleeved poles and the cross pole design of this tent would hold up fairly well in high winds.

I was trying to find a tough 3 season that could handle the wind but also be comfortable in hot temperatures. Probably a wild goose chase though.

Do you find your 4 season North Face comfortable in warm weather? If so, I should probably look at a finding 4 season tent.

After a trip to Canyonlands NP, I discovered the hard way that nights in the desert can create ferocious winds. Tents that shine in the BW, like my 4 person Eureka Timberline just aren't capable of handling high winds, while my co campers, with their multiple pole dome tent were unfazed. A lower profile and enough poles in offsetting directions provided them with a great deal more stability.

Trango

I am a big fan of Nemo. My Losi 2P has been a great tent, but I hear you with the wind issue. I wonder if they have a recommendation for you in a 3 season?

Baja kayak and fishing trip? I have wanted to do that for several years. Can you give me a little info?

Do you go with a company? How long is the trip? What time of year? Do you carry all you gear or is there a support boat? How is the fishing? Any hiking side trips?

MattM: " I do a kayak fishing and camping trip in Baja every year, and the winds can be extreme. My Marmot Limelight did not hold up to Baja winds on one trip. No damage to the tent, but the tent poles were being bent flat to ground during high wind gusts. "

That would suggest to me that you don't want a mesh interior tent due to blowing sand. I've used doubled walled 4 season tents forever (backpacking in the summer in the Southeast to winter mountaineering in Alaska/Cascades/Rockies--oh yeah, and canoeing), and don't see any downsides (w/r/t condensation, too hot, etc.), and they're ALWAYS reliable. I've even been in windy conditions when sand got into my double-walled nylon (not mesh) tent with all the vents zipped tight--I can imagine what would have happened with a mesh interior.

Guying out the tent using all available guys (and maybe then some) increases the strength of the tent immensely. The Kuiu vid mentioned shows some impressive wind resistance, and the fellows there didn't even guy out all the available tabs.

Larger tents will have lower wind capability unless you get into the larger expedition tents (e.g. North Face, Mountain Hardwear, etc.) which get really expensive. So again, you can partially hedge your bets by really maximizing your guy outs. Or, Mountain Gear has a great deal (30% off) on the MH Trango 4 Trango 4 , a tried and true bad weather tent.

MattM: "

Savage Voyageur: "If you are having problems with your tent in high winds and bending the poles to the floor then you want to be looking at a 4 season tent. The difference is the tent poles are in sleeves on the tent, and to poles are a thicker diameter. I have a North Face two man 4 season tent. It’s rated for winds on mountains and snow. "

I agree that a 4 season would be best for high winds, but I was hoping that the sleeved poles and the cross pole design of this tent would hold up fairly well in high winds.


I was trying to find a tough 3 season that could handle the wind but also be comfortable in hot temperatures. Probably a wild goose chase though.


Do you find your 4 season North Face comfortable in warm weather? If so, I should probably look at a finding 4 season tent.




"

I think when it’s hot, any tent will be hot until the sun goes down. Do 4 season tents get hotter than 3 season tents? Yes they do. But that’s during the day when the sun is beating down on your tent. The key point is the wind, and you said it is powerful. If you have winds like you said you will clear out any heat and you will be no more warmer than anything else. Even a slight wind will clear out any heat.

The Gemini looks like it might be sturdier than a lot of 3 season tents. That tension line across the top might make a significant difference by keeping the two arches from flattening. But that’s just theory based on the picture.

Here’s a different way of thinking about it. What about a tarptent where the strength comes from well cut fabric and then some of the models have extra poles for additional strength. Because Henry who designs them lives in the Sierra he may have thoughts about use in Baja with sand anchors. Heck, when I called him he had experience in the BW. You could look at both the Cloudburst 3 and the Hogback which is a 4 person tent.

4 season tents are designed to handle wind, yes but even they need to be fully secured and guyed out.
My questions. How did you have the Marmot setup when it had problems? Was it the old design or newer hipped pole version? If fully guyed did the stakes pull out?

I've owned a pile of tents in various shapes and designs from A-frame to geodesic, and tunnel tents. Nearly the best high wind performance came from 2 unappreciated designs, a Eureka Mountain Pass solo and now the Alps Extreme Outfitter,

Both share a similar shape with deep very sloped vestibules that shed lots of wind.
The 4 season tents that worked best were, a Walrus Hurricane Hole expedition tunnel tent and my BSI Chinnok Both of these used an external pole frame that offer multiple guyline anchoring positions.
Properly guyed tents will handle a lot more wind. The guy lines should attach to the frame either directly or with frame loops inside the fly. Long lines work best and doubling lines and stakes add even more stability. Even this big tent handled 50 MPH gusts on several occasions Personally I discard the supplied guylines and add my own longer, more visible, often doubled up, and also have sewn loops on the fly for securing the lines to the frame.

The Exped Gemini will work fine as long as it setup and guyed out well, and so will a whole lot of other tents, like the MSR Elixir 4, and the Big Agnes Flying Diamond 4.

butthead

Thanks everyone for all of the advice! I am going to look into both 4 season tent and the tarp tent options.

The Baja trip is only once a year, but I do winter camp a few times a year as well (I’ve lucked out with weather so far using my 3-season tent options). Even though the majority of my camping is in the Quetico, BWCA, and WCPP during spring and summer, I think that going with a 4 season will be the best overall choice for my needs.

Johnh: "Baja kayak and fishing trip? I have wanted to do that for several years. Can you give me a little info?


Do you go with a company? How long is the trip? What time of year? Do you carry all you gear or is there a support boat? How is the fishing? Any hiking side trips? "

The Baja trip is awesome. I’ve been doing this trip once a year for the last 5 years with three of my good friends who live in the San Diego area. The Baja trip is usually the first week of April. We are self-outfitted, don’t use a company, and the trip is usually a week.

I’d be happy to provide you with any information you need. Send me an email and I will be glad to dial you in on all of the logistics, fishing and camping spots, etc.

My San Diego friends also fly out once a year to do a Quetico, WCPP or BWCA trip with me as well. We are heading into Omeme in late June. I’ll be doing a scouting trip into Omeme with my stepdad in early June. OldHoosier was kind enough to give some wonderful information about the Omeme area.

Here is a quick outline of a typical Baja trip:

Load all gear and four sea kayaks on two trucks at my friend’s house in San Diego.
Hit the road at dawn the next day and cross the border (buy Mexican car insurance online before you leave).

We take highway 1 all the way to Bahia de los Angeles on the Sea of Cortez. We usually end up rolling into town just after dark. We stay at Daggett’s campground night one. We usually reserve one or two of their motel rooms for that night. Simple and clean. Ruben (the owner) and his sons are great. They will keep your vehicle safe and secure for $10 a day. Daggett's has a few kayaks for rent as well.

The next morning we load all the gear and fresh water into the kayaks, launch right from Daggett’s beach, and paddle out to one of the offshore islands in the area to set up camp one.

We spend the next few days fishing, spearfishing, hiking and snorkeling. We usually move camp to a different island over the course of the trip.

The fishing, hiking, and sea life is amazing. Hiking the volcano on “Smith Island” provides an awesome view.

On exit day we launch early and make our way to Daggett’s, pack up the trucks and make our way to San Quintin (town on the Pacific side) and stay at a wonderful small hotel for a good shower, a few cold beers and a wonderful dinner at their restaurant.
The next morning we head back to San Diego.

This is a wonderful trip that I’m sure many of the people on this board would enjoy! The landscape is stunning. The fishing can be amazing. The paddling is exciting; and seclusion is guaranteed.

Hey butthead,

You make great points and I always trust your input.

I had the Marmot guyed out to the max using large rocks as sand anchors at all stake and guy out points. I was using my own strong guy lines. None of the sand anchors ever moved and the fly held up well, the poles just kept bending and flattening inside of the fly. I guess I should have packed a tent helmet!

The poles would pop up nicely after each gust, but I don’t think they would have lasted another night of that abuse.

I think your question about the old vs. newer design gets to the heart of the problem. I was using the newer hipped pole version. I was using every expletive in the book to curse the hipped pole design while the El Norte winds were flattening my tent. My friend’s Big Agnes without “hipped” poles handled better, but still took a beating.

butthead: " add my own longer, more visible, often doubled up, and also have sewn loops on the fly for securing the lines to the frame. butthead"

So did you add loops mid-panel or on the perimeter? If mid-panel, how did you attach them, and how have they held up?

Check This out. Tarptent offers an interchangeable interior from solid to mesh. Best of both worlds. Also Guylines are your friend in high winds

MReid: "

butthead: " add my own longer, more visible, often doubled up, and also have sewn loops on the fly for securing the lines to the frame. butthead"

So did you add loops mid-panel or on the perimeter? If mid-panel, how did you attach them, and how have they held up?"

Several inexpensive tents I added 2 sided Velcro straps sewn on the underside of the fly, to wrap around the frame poles, placed under existing guy loops or loops I added. All my current tents have factory installed Velcro to attach to the frame. The Chinook is special with it's external frame adding guylines directly to the frame is easy.

My favorite guyline sets, I have 3 of various lenghts. 8 sections of 3 mm guyline and fittings, glow in the dark each.

butthead

Thanks--I have a tent that has a panel I'm concerned about flapping in high winds that I'd like to guy out. All the manufacturers have guy pullouts on seams, but this is on a flat panel with no seam. I'm not willing to add a stitched patch until I get some solid info from someone who's done it.

A couple others suggested 4-season tents and specifically the Mountain Hardwear Trango series. I happen to have spent 3 months living in a Trango while sea kayaking and mountaineering in Patagonia. Kayaking was along the southern pacific coast of the continent - an area of the world known for persistent high winds.

If you’re willing to fork over the cash for that kind of 4-season tent, they will hold up to wind better than anything else I’ve been in. They also don’t buckle under snow in winter. The trade off is the expense, and they are significantly heavier than 3 season models - not a big issue in a kayak though. Patagonia is not sandy, and is fairly cold. However, I would guess a rain fly that goes all the way to the ground - typical of 4 season tents like the Trango - would be helpful for keeping wind blown sand at bay. The 4-season design won’t help keep it cooler, but like others said, if it’s that windy, it may not matter. If it’s not windy, keep the doors at least partially open to vent. Some 4 season tents have covered vents as part of the design.

I love my Trango, but recently picked up a 1 person Hilleberg 4-season tent. It seems that more of excursions that call for that kind of tent (winter sled hauling, cold kayaking, winter mountains, etc) get done solo lately, and the 3P Trango is pretty massive for one. I’d put the Hilleberg on par or better than the Trango. If you’re really worried about wind, the Hilleberg pole attachment points use an oversized design that allows you to actually double up the poles - I can’t imagine needing to do it though.

One alternative I’ll throw out, that I actually did a lot on the Patagonia coast: just use a tarp! Set it up so the wind just runs through it. Sounds like a nightmare with sand though. Oh, and I do remember waking up one night to a massive zipping sound... that was a teammate’s tarp ripping down the middle, and his big branch pole snapping in half and whacking him in the face...

Good luck! Sounds fun

Edit: I’ve had the Trango since 2008 and it’s still as strong as ever. They hold up over time.

Thanks Tomcat--the video was just what I needed.

Matt -

Thanks for the info on your trip. Sounds fantastic. I don’t have sea kayak experience so I thought getting on a group trip would be good for me. There are some that go between Loreto and La Paz. I like the paddle/snorkel/fish/hike program. I went to Bahia LA in 1981 when I was 17. We camped there for a few days at the end of a road that I think was on the south side of the bay. I caught a fish and got stung by a ray while I was wading. It was March when we were there. I left school for two weeks to do it. Somehow managed to still graduate although it was a little dicey.

I have had a couple of North Face Tadpoles. They are pretty low and stout and not expensive. I have a couple of Marmot Limelights also and don’t think they would be a good wind tent.

I once moved my camp about four miles in the middle of the night because the wind was bad. I was on a ridge and hiked to the bottom of the canyon. The moon was full so I hardly needed a light to do it.

Optifron-

Thanks for the suggestions. That Patagonia trip sounds like it was epic! I'm looking into both the Hilleberg and the Trego. I also noticed that Beav took an Exped Venus on his northwest passage journey and commented on how happy he was with it. I think investing in a quality four season tent makes sense at this point for me. I still have two three season tents that are in good condition. With the trips I have planned this year, the extra couple of pounds will be worth the piece of mind. I travel extremely light as it is.

I have an amazing opportunity to do a month long solo this July. I'm completely undecided where to go, so any suggestions would be great.

Johnh-

After watching your extended Quetico solo/tandem trip video, I don't know how much you would enjoy a La Paz group guided trip. You are obviously an experienced paddler and solo camper. Those trips are geared more toward groups with little to no paddling or camping experience. Similar to hiring a guide in the bwca. Very cool opportunity for first time campers and paddlers though.

A sea kayak trip is very similar to a canoe trip. I actually think paddling a sea kayak solo is easier than a solo canoe with regard to self rescue and stability in waves and wind.

This year we are hitting a different spot, and only have to paddle four miles out to our basecamp island. We have an extra guy coming, so I'm just using a sit on top fishing kayak this year.

I'm not sure where you're located, but I could certainly arrange for you to use one of my friends kayaks for awhile to paddle around with to gain confidence.

MattM: "Optifron-


Thanks for the suggestions. That Patagonia trip sounds like it was epic! I'm looking into both the Hilleberg and the Trego. I also noticed that Beav took an Exped Venus on his northwest passage journey and commented on how happy he was with it. I think investing in a quality four season tent makes sense at this point for me. I still have two three season tents that are in good condition. With the trips I have planned this year, the extra couple of pounds will be worth the piece of mind. I travel extremely light as it is.


I have an amazing opportunity to do a month long solo this July. I'm completely undecided where to go, so any suggestions would be great.



"

That is an amazing opportunity. Of course I’m sure you could create a great month in BWCA, Quetico, Woodland Caribou and/or Wabikimi. Plenty of people here could help with that! If you’re looking for sea kayaking, I have been told that if one were to get their kayak to Port Hardy on the north end of Vancouver Island on the west coast of Canada, and paddle north along the Canadian coast, one will have an absolutely beautiful expedition, especially during whale migrations. Not a trip I’ve done though. As I’m sure you know, you’d want to be very confident in your abilities to solo that kind of sea expedition - not something I could do without more training. Coast of Patagonia would fall in the same bucket.

If you’re talking foot travel (backpacking/mountaineering), then I have a list ;).

I would also recommend looking at 4 season tents given your criteria.

Trangos, any hilleberg, and north face mountain/ve 25s are all great. Any of them will laugh at pretty much any wind you can find in the lower 48 if properly pitched. For what it's worth I've seen that the Trangos and the North Face tents don't hold up as well long-term to UV exposure.

Also think about the zippers if you're going to be using it in the desert. When I was climbing the Mexican volcanoes we went with a guide outfit that had some pretty well loved Trangos. They were still great tents but the zippers were pretty much shot from being out in all that wind blown sand/volcanic ash for so long.

The Hillebergs seem to hold up a lot better to UV given that they're silnylon rather than urethane nylon, but I haven't used mine in the desert enough to tell you how well the zippers tolerate sand. I know that sand doesn't come in the inner tent much at all, and it ventilates really well if you know how to pitch it and utilize the vents properly (this is for their tunnel-style tents- I own a Keron GT). As others have said If you've got hot temps and no wind then you're going to be uncomfortable in any tent...

FYI if you do look at Hilleberg check out their red label tents. They are meant to straddle the line between 3 and 4 season tents and might be just what you're after. They aren't supposed to be full blown extreme condition tents, but Lonnie Dupre took a Soulo up Denali in winter. Conditions don't really get much worse than that on this planet (read Minus 148 Degrees and you'll understand).

I get the sense on this forum that cost, value for cost, comfort, overall durability, weight are valued in about that order by most. Given your stated preference in the top of this thread, I'm guessing your list is something more like overall durability, comfort, value for cost, weight, cost, which is more similar to my preference, which is overall durability, weight, comfort, value for cost, cost. If that makes sense.

As such, I wonder if you've looked at Hilleberg. Yes they're expensive, but they're incredibly durable, and in my shopping I found that they were lighter than Exped when similarly specced. I own a Rogen and an Enan, both from their "light duty" Yellow Label three-season line, but they're certainly 3.5 season tents (and the Enan is probably 3.75). You can scale up to tougher and more durable tents, but honestly even in a BWCA January you'd probably be fine with their mid-level Red Label tents. Their Black Label are designed for Mt Everest and Antarctica (seriously).

Edited to note that others mentioned Hilleberg, I just didn't read far enough down the thread to see it. I heartily recommend them.