Are any of you modifying their group cooking procedures with the COVID? We are bringing up 3 groups again in September from our men's ministries and I am considering asking each camp to have only one person actually cooking the food and that same person dishing up the food so multiple people don't handle the group cookware. Also considering asking the cooks to wear latex gloves when working with the food. Considering also assigning just one person to water filtration (filling up the platypus filters) and again wearing latex gloves when handling the hoses and fiters.

What are the rest of you doing?

In my opinion, if you are going on a BWCA trip with an infected person you will be exposed. There are too many transmission vectors to reasonably assume spread could be prevented no matter how many precautions are taken.

Whether or not the risks are acceptable is a personal choice.

Is everyone is driving in their own personal vehicle and sleeping in separate tents? I think if they have agreed to come they’ve signed up for the risk of exposure and food handling is a moot issue.

brux: "Is everyone is driving in their own personal vehicle and sleeping in separate tents? I think if they have agreed to come they’ve signed up for the risk of exposure and food handling is a moot issue."

+1

We don't use tents. . .everyone in hammocks. Bear in mind I am thinking through this as a group leader for three groups. Everyone sitting in a car is different then 8 guys all using the same camp cooking utensils. In looking at everything involved in a trip, it seemed the highest risk of spreading any type of infection would be in using shared utensils, or multiple people involved in the cooking. Just thought I would see if anyone is changing anything relating to their trips.

All indications are that this virus can be transmitted through the air and that prolonged periods in confined spaces with others is risky.

So let me change the question. . . what if any procedures do you use in camp relating to water filtration or cooking based on health issues?

Agreed. I can't control multiple guys in a vehicle going up and back. However given that guys are separated in canoes and in our camps are in hammocks, the remaining risk falls to food and water.

First I should say I am a retired nurse, was a children's camp and canoe trip director for 15 years and worked in food services for another 10 years, oh, and I still do catering as a side line. So, I understand your thinking but the guys might have a very valid point that after a car ride together, exposure has already happened.
All that being said, food service sanitation practices are always important. Mostly make sure cooking utensils and items are wash well with soap, rinse well and maybe even use a boiling water dip or final rinse, if you wanted to be extra careful. Air dry dishes - a mesh bag full of dishes - hung up over night works well. The virus will not last on a hard surface in the open air for several hours. You might avoid latex gloves - some folks are highly allergic. Get "food service" gloves. I get them at Sam's Club. The gloves are always a good idea if preparing group meals especially when paddlers have limited hand washing. The one person cooking thing - might not be necessary if the cleaning procedure is followed. Remember to be careful - if you think of using bleach to clean a surface or as part of a final rinse procedure for dishes - it is diluted a LOT !! 5 tablespoons (or 1/3 cup) bleach per gallon of water or 4 teaspoons bleach per quart of water. I tend NOT to use bleach - too easy to get it on things and get bleach spots and you don't want it to be leaky in a pack!!
So, sounds like you are thinking things through. Hope it all works out well for your groups.

Hand washing is probably the biggest area that can have an impact. Making a hand washing station that's visible in the area of camp where everyone hangs out (like the fire pit) and easy to use will make it more likely to be used. I like to use purified water so that you know it's clean and put it having it hanging off a tree with a plastic tub to catch the water. I use one of these:

6L MSR Water Bag

The biodegradable soap container can just float in the tub and I clip on a small camp towel for hand drying.


Have a great trip!

Good idea on a hand washing station. I will make sure each camp site has one. On the water filtration my site has a 6 litre platypus and two 4 litre platypus filters. Only need to fill once a day. Thanks

ockycamper: "Good idea on a hand washing station. I will make sure each camp site has one. On the water filtration my site has a 6 litre platypus and two 4 litre platypus filters. Only need to fill once a day. Thanks"

Careful of a group towel - if the hands don't get well clean, the towel will become the germ transmitter. Dang germs!

For a hand washing station I was leaning to a large bottle of Germex for that very reason.

I believe everyone should take every precaution to protect themselves and others . BUT.

I don't see how, considering the very nature of canoe camping in the BW, you can avoid close contact among the group. ( how large are the groups? how big the camp site? ) The group needs to be safe before you start out. If precautions are not taken before you hit the water, a helping hand getting out of the canoe, help on a rough portage or a simple "pass the salt" could possibly create a Covid problem.
The same standards of cleanliness for cooking and clean-up at home should apply at camp as well. A drop of bleach ( real bleach not the thick no spill type ) as an added precaution is not a bad idea. How about disinfecting wipes for the thunder box, canoe paddles, ax or saw etc.?
Boiling the cook is a bad idea unless of course they serve rare bacon with mosquito flavored pancakes, a stern warning and no more than ten lashes for a first offense is customary. Did you mean boiling the water? My bad.

We put a small bottle of hand sanitizer in with the T. P. at the latrine. handy so they use it!

We don't bring toilet paper. Everyone brings their personal pack of biodgradeable wipes. Eliminates multiple people handling one roll of TP.

Also eliminates the problem if the tp gets wet. One year of the boys in the camp brought up the bag of tp to the privy and forgot and left the entire bag there. Of course it all got wet in the rain. He learned his lesson when the rest of the camp said he was on his own and weren't sharing.

ockycamper: ".... Just thought I would see if anyone is changing anything relating to their trips."

I skipped my group trip this year for the first time in 23 years.

You've decided your trip is essential apparently.

Might be easy for me to say, but I would probably cook normally get water normally except maybe really stress the hand washing and have lots of hand sanitizer around. Notify the group ahead of time of this plan and if anyone has any issues, they should bring Cliff bars or something that they can eat alone if they want to. Just my $.02 not knowing much about your group.

Going to the latrine, coming back, and immediately reaching into the GORP bag... always a cringe-worthy measure of any group's willingness to attend to hygiene.

So many points of possible transmission. That's what led us to cancel our men's group trip this year. 8-9 different households coming together? Either no one has it start to finish or everyone has it by the end of the trip...

My wife and I went on our trip as planned. Dealing with contacts in Ely was the only difference. Still a very enjoyable experience there when everyone plays nice.

That is exactly why I asked the question. What I have thought to put in place is:

no "common" TP at the privy. . .everyone brings a pack of wipes or TP.

Only one person ( the same all week) handles the food, cooks, serves, and washes up the group cooking gear, and only after using hand sanitizer.

Only one person handles the Platypus bags for refilling. And again, only after hand sanitizer.

Once in camp the only thing everyone "touched" in the past was the TP left at the privy, the camp cooking spoons, ladels, etc, and the Platypus bags. Eliminate those and as long as you keep several feet apart we should be good.

Driving up in the same vehicle and everything else you do on a trip, I wouldn't be too concerned about meal prep or getting water. The trip up is orders of magnitude more risk than anything else IMO.

jhb8426: "Driving up in the same vehicle and everything else you do on a trip, I wouldn't be too concerned about meal prep or getting water. The trip up is orders of magnitude more risk than anything else IMO."

+1.

By the time you've made the trip, there is no additional risk from the canoeing, camping, food prep, etc. The die has been cast. Relax and enjoy... if you can.

We recently went on a trip with a highrisk person.

We had two groups one of 2 and one of 3. Each group prepared there own food and that worked great and was easy.

Would that be possible for your groups? Each group had their own stove so we did not have to rely on the fire grate to cook any of our food.

bobbernumber3: "

jhb8426: "Driving up in the same vehicle and everything else you do on a trip, I wouldn't be too concerned about meal prep or getting water. The trip up is orders of magnitude more risk than anything else IMO."

+1.


By the time you've made the trip, there is no additional risk from the canoeing, camping, food prep, etc. The die has been cast. Relax and enjoy... if you can."

+2
Hygiene and food prep precautions are all in order under ordinary conditions. Confinement in a vehicle--well--there's your culprit. Three groups is a lot of people! Everyone is going to wear a mask at all times during drive up and back? WOW! Seems like you are throwing reason to the winds. The dynamics of groups are a challenge to manage even in non-pandemic conditions.

gas pump nozzles. convenience stores. bathroom pit stops. unknowns that may walk by members of your party that may be asymptomatic. clerks that have to scan and touch almost everything you purchase.

Okeedokee. Have a great trip, y'all!

I am assuming those that are concerned only about the car ride up and back are not going at all this year? Let me ask you. . .what if the virus stays around for years. . .as all reports seem to indicate? Are you also not going on vacations? Not taking family trips to ball games?

We will be going up 3-4 people in a car max. And most of those will be the same family units. Most of the families I know at our church have more then that in the car going anywhere.

But based on your input, we will try to make sure that only family units (who are all ready exposed to each other) are in one vehicle. When that is not possible, limiting the people in each vehicle.

One other thought. Depending on which state you are in the requirements vary greatly. Only 22 of the 50 states require masks to be worn. Are the other 28 states totally exposing their citizens.

Everyone has to make a choice on these matters. From the comments I am assuming those concerned about the cars are not going to BWCA. . .or anywhere else. What I am trying to do is keep people safe as much as possible throughout the trip.

Not to be a downer but I just wouldn't go in large groups period.. I have kept my trips to smaller groups this year. We have only had 1 other person outside the household come with us on our adventures.

Although we take 15-20 when we go each year in the fall, we keep the camp sites/groups to 4-6 people max. Again, most of the men coming up are coming with sons and go in the same car with their sons. Other cars are typically only 2-3 men.

How about reducing the risk way before the trip starts? Your members quarantine themselves the 2 weeks before departure - no trips to any store, no restaurants even to pick up takeout, nothing that brings you into contact with anyone not in your household. You make sure your household members also reduce their outside contacts. You can walk, paddle, or do other outdoor exercise as long as you keep 20 rods or so from anyone else. Make sure you are active on Zoom, telephone, this board and others so the isolation does not drive you nuts. Take temperatures daily, get a covid-19 test 3 days before departure. Then you can be reasonably sure no one in camp is infecting the rest.

Really hard to do, but each member should be making a commitment to the group to be virus free on the trip. If this is a church group, call the preparation a retreat. At the very least, members should swear off visits to gatherings of any kind, including family birthday parties, bars or restaurants, wear masks (imprinted with your candidate's name, if politically necessary), and eliminate pre-trip travel. Have a safe and enjoyable trip.

Without getting into the politics of all this, our church is all ready meeting again in worship, practicing 6 foot separation. We are also starting up small groups again in 4 weeks. We are not in an urban area or anywhere near a "hot spot". Our members are made up of doctors and medical specialists in all areas of the profession. We are making our decision based on recommendations of those that actually deal with local medical issues.

On all these issues everyone needs to come to their own conclusions on the science of the COVID issue, the clear politics involved and weigh how agressive to be on safety measures against freedoms and rights. Frankly in many states the constitution went out the window months ago.

We have doctors in our group as well as supervisors of multiple hospitals. The COVID count in our county is far below that of the common flu.

All that said, I will take much of the advice hear regarding keeping car occupants to same family groups, and if not possible, only two in a car. No one "helps/carries/handles" others packs or equipment other then the owner. Only one person handling food and all cooking utensils, and only one working with the filtration. As suggested, I will bring clorox wipes to wipe down Platypus bags and hoses after filling and probably put on plastic can at the privy to use to wipe the top down after use.

I don't consider the car issue near the risk others on this thread do as we are all back in attendance all ready at our church. I will then try to control what I can.

Thanks everyone for your input!

Have a blast. Yep, I was thinking of groups all traveling in 9 seat passenger vans. Kinda freaked me out. Ya doing it right. Correct. This could be with us for years.

Consider having the cooks and water makers (LOL) mask up while performing their community service. The gloves aren't going to do a thing if they are breathing virus on them. Washed and sanitized hands are just as clean as gloves, but good hand hygiene is definitely tougher on outdoor trips. I would go with disposable gloves.

Individuals or family units have their own utensils and dishes, which they wash, dry, and store separately. Avoid congregating over and around the food. Consider masks while getting food, but there is no current evidence showing you can get covid from food (you've honed in on the shared utensil issue which seems the bigger risk).

For those non-family units riding together, keeping them together during the whole trip would reduce the exposure pool. Discuss best practices before leaving for reducing exposure at gas and rest stops. Staggered staging times for group departures at the entry point would also reduce exposure across the group.

Hunkered down in a screen tent during a protracted rain could call for masks. They really reduce airflow. Think about how to manage things like games you might play that have shared pieces. Before and after hand sanitizing and losing points for touching your face while playing?

And if this virus is around and uncontrolled and untreatable for several years, then I will likely not do large group activities for several years. Based on what I've observed, I think we'll have enough tools to manage it, but not eliminate it, in 12-18 months. I think there is a 65% chance I'll be able to do at least some of the typical large group activities I participate in next summer. That's just my rough calculations made on a piece of toilet paper that was then flushed ;-)