BWCA Mandated bear proof Boundary Waters Listening Point - General Discussion
Chat Rooms (0 Chatting)  |  Search  |   Login/Join
* For the benefit of the community, commercial posting is not allowed.
Boundary Waters Quetico Forum
   Listening Point - General Discussion
      Mandated bear proof     
 Forum Sponsor

Author

Text

07/31/2021 05:48PM  
Get your act together

For the BWCA-much is the same-maybe required or mandated makes it different.
 
      Print Top Bottom Previous Next
07/31/2021 05:51PM  
Superior National Forest mandates bear-proof food storage
Drought-ravaged berry crop is pushing bears to seek 'people food.'
Written By: John Myers | 11:53 am, Jul. 30, 2021
A black bear in an undated file photo. The Superior National Forest is requiring all campers to properly store their food to keep it away from hungry bears. (Forum News Service file)
A black bear in an undated file photo. The Superior National Forest is requiring all campers to properly store their food to keep it away from hungry bears. (Forum News Service file)
With an ongoing drought leaving bears without berries and other natural foods, Superior National Forest officials are cracking down on campers who aren’t keeping their people food away from bears.

Forest officials on Friday said they are mandating proper food storage for campers starting immediately, with people now required to store any food items in their vehicle or, if camping remotely, hanging from a tree or in bear-proof containers.

Violations of the food storage rule are subject to fines of up to $5,000. The exceptions to the new rule are food that is being prepared for meals or during meals.

While it’s long been common practice to hang food packs in trees in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness and other remote campsites — 12 feet up and 6 feet from the trunk — the new rule makes it mandatory. In drive-to campsites, storing food in vehicles is considered acceptable. Another option is bear-proof containers, which are available at some camping supply stores and outfitters.

The new rule comes as more people are camping and encountering more bears, said Cheron Ferland, Superior National Forest wildlife biologist. Ferland says the rise in bear/human interactions this summer is in part due to a new Forest Service policy asking people to report bear sightings but "also because there are more visitors on the landscape and the fact that we are in an extreme drought, which has led to a poor berry crop."

Reports this summer include bears at individual campsites, bears digging in dumpsters at campgrounds or other facilities, and bears stealing backpacks and coolers.

“This is bear-country, people are going to see black bears. They live here. That’s not concerning to me,’’ Ferland said in a statement on the new regulation. “But bears at dumpsters, lingering at campsites and stealing packs is. Once they get a reward, or food, they will keep doing whatever it takes to get that reward again.”

If a bear becomes a nuisance and continues interacting with humans, officials said the bear will be killed.

“We don’t want it to get to that point, and we want to limit the number of bears that are considered a nuisance. That’s what this food storage order is all about — taking proactive steps,” Ferland said.

Drought hits Northland in many ways

So far this summer, bear problem areas in the Superior National Forest include Rose Lake, Duncan Lake and Daniel Lake on the Gunflint Ranger District; the Moose Lake Chain and several drive-to campgrounds including Birch Lake, Fall Lake and Fenske Lake on the Kawishiwi Ranger District; and Agnes Lake on the La Croix District.

"Storing food in the car is better than outside in a nonbear-proof container, but there have been a couple reports of bears breaking into vehicles this year and stealing coolers and food,'' said Joanna Gilkeson, spokeswoman for the Superior National Forest. "If a bear knows that coolers mean food, and they see a cooler, they'll go for it. There are some bear-resistant food coolers out there which is probably the best practice for car-camping.
 
tumblehome
distinguished member(2907)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
07/31/2021 06:49PM  
There is already a thread going on about this.
 
07/31/2021 07:31PM  
Will they allow someone to test the barrels they are using to see if they are bear proof? I feel like ours could pass even though they are not standard bear barrels, especially if we reinforced the tops with a locking mechanism. If not, I guess it could be a boon to outfitters though. They can rent the approved barrels like they do other equipment.
 
07/31/2021 08:04PM  
 
Stumpy
distinguished member(2147)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
07/31/2021 08:50PM  
My meat is always well hung.
 
podgeo
distinguished member (329)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
07/31/2021 10:47PM  
Stumpy: "My meat is always well hung."


are you sure with a name like stumpy...lol
 
yogi59weedr
distinguished member(2662)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
07/31/2021 11:21PM  
Walked right into that one.
Bahahaha.....
 
08/01/2021 08:06AM  
Here is the actual order which is not exactly the same as some reportage and commentary on other links.
 
Duckman
distinguished member(528)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/01/2021 02:04PM  
I’d put my scent resistant bag and stash routine up against any storage container or hanging method out there.
 
yellowcanoe
distinguished member(4984)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
08/01/2021 03:53PM  
boonie: " Here is the actual order which is not exactly the same as some reportage and commentary on other links. "


aah . Blue barrels may qualify as bear resistant. But I am not in the position to determine. Bear proof they are not.
 
08/01/2021 05:11PM  
Duckman: "I’d put my scent resistant bag and stash routine up against any storage container or hanging method out there."


Scent resistent would be tough.
 
ockycamper
distinguished member(1372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/01/2021 06:04PM  
The outfitter last year said Blue Barrels were approved. I called the forest service and they said no. Only Bearvaults or similar products.

Our three groups bring up BV500's. Never had them breached by bears, mice or anything else.
 
08/01/2021 10:52PM  
yellowcanoe: "
boonie: " Here is the actual order which is not exactly the same as some reportage and commentary on other links. "



aah . Blue barrels may qualify as bear resistant. But I am not in the position to determine. Bear proof they are not. "


I would assume not, but I don't know if they pass that test or not. I'm not sure the SNF knows either.
 
treehorn
distinguished member(715)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/02/2021 08:37AM  
I reckon there are roughly 0% of BWCA campers right now that are following this to a T. And I would be among the 100%. Especially if the blue barrels don't count.

The FS can write fines to their heart's content I guess.
 
08/02/2021 10:24AM  
Bear-proof containers are getting to be the norm in a lot of places. And the feds take the rule very seriously--especially in grizzly country out west. A $5000 fine is not trivial. I've used certified bear-proof containers on a couple of recent backpack trips in Montana and tend to like them.

When I start returning to Quetico, I will use them there.
 
ockycamper
distinguished member(1372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/02/2021 10:36AM  
For those complaining about the cost of a Bearvault. . . I will bet they think them pretty cheap after paying a fine.
 
08/02/2021 11:20AM  
I think we got to look how we got to this mandate scenario. Carelessness on part of campers being to lazy to hang there food up or have a alternative.
 
andym
distinguished member(5337)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
08/02/2021 12:54PM  
I agree, Pinetree. On one of our trips, we got to watch a bear go campsite to campsite checking the fire grate and obvious hanging trees. When we passed an occupied campsite and warned them about the bear heading their way, they responded with happiness that they were getting their daily visit and the bear could go through their garbage. This was on an EP lake and it was one of those campsites that I suspect took a few trips to carry everything from the car to the site. Sometimes it even goes beyond carelessness.
 
08/02/2021 01:05PM  
Yikes! Was that a recent trip?
 
08/02/2021 02:31PM  
andym: "I agree, Pinetree. On one of our trips, we got to watch a bear go campsite to campsite checking the fire grate and obvious hanging trees. When we passed an occupied campsite and warned them about the bear heading their way, they responded with happiness that they were getting their daily visit and the bear could go through their garbage. This was on an EP lake and it was one of those campsites that I suspect took a few trips to carry everything from the car to the site. Sometimes it even goes beyond carelessness."


Its like around home just about everyone who feeds birds with sunflowers has been hit this spring multiple times by bears. Until they quit feeding sunflowers or raised there birdfeeder like 10 feet high,

Feeding stopped and bears moved on out of the neighborhood for now. Why? No Food.
 
andym
distinguished member(5337)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
08/02/2021 03:11PM  
rtallent: "Yikes! Was that a recent trip?"


Nope. Over a decade ago.
 
gravelroad
distinguished member(985)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/03/2021 09:30AM  
treehorn: "I reckon there are roughly 0% of BWCA campers right now that are following this to a T. And I would be among the 100%. Especially if the blue barrels don't count.


The FS can write fines to their heart's content I guess."


Your math is wrong. It isn't anything like 100%. So don't expect any support from the minority that have complied and continue to comply.
 
ockycamper
distinguished member(1372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/03/2021 09:52AM  
We know many trippers that use bear vaults or bear kegs and have for years.
 
08/03/2021 11:01AM  
ockycamper: "We know many trippers that use bear vaults or bear kegs and have for years."


Yep, I used my first one in 1995 working for Sequoia and Kings Canyon NP in CA. I have been using them since and have a BV 450 and a 500 now. They have served me well in Alaska and the BW. I like the BV's because you can see through them and don't spend as much time fumbling for something that is dark inside. I keep my food and other attractants in them.
 
ockycamper
distinguished member(1372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/03/2021 11:31AM  
We like them because we pack one days food in each BV 500 for a group of 6 men. Then label the container. After using, trash goes back in the BV500 and doesn't get stuff on the uneaten foods. You can see through them and even sit on them. We have used them for chairs, and table legs. As to carrying them, we put up to four in a backpack.
 
Bearpath9
distinguished member (364)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/03/2021 01:11PM  
Already have one BV500, and I do like it. Seems like now is time to invest in another. Have a solo coming up in a couple of weeks, just freeze dried food, but I was wondering what to do with the garbage in case I happen upon some easily fooled fish. I do know that you can cram 15 of those freeze dried packets in one BV500. Too lazy to go back to hanging.
 
treehorn
distinguished member(715)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/04/2021 10:06AM  
gravelroad: "
treehorn: "I reckon there are roughly 0% of BWCA campers right now that are following this to a T. And I would be among the 100%. Especially if the blue barrels don't count.



The FS can write fines to their heart's content I guess."



Your math is wrong. It isn't anything like 100%. So don't expect any support from the minority that have complied and continue to comply."



Yep, from them I expect lies and virtue signaling about how they do everything perfectly.

In the meantime, there are probably less than 5 occupied campsites a discerning ranger could visit right now that could not be found in violation of something within this order.
 
yellowcanoe
distinguished member(4984)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
08/04/2021 11:44AM  
Bearpath9: "Already have one BV500, and I do like it. Seems like now is time to invest in another. Have a solo coming up in a couple of weeks, just freeze dried food, but I was wondering what to do with the garbage in case I happen upon some easily fooled fish. I do know that you can cram 15 of those freeze dried packets in one BV500. Too lazy to go back to hanging."


Are you our postie who delights in cramming all our held mail in our locked mailbox..so much that we can't open it ( the latch won't turn) and get the mail out. Never without a struggle. Right below there is a set of package boxes.......??LOL
 
THEGrandRapids
distinguished member (377)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/04/2021 11:46AM  
treehorn: "
gravelroad: "
treehorn: "I reckon there are roughly 0% of BWCA campers right now that are following this to a T. And I would be among the 100%. Especially if the blue barrels don't count.



The FS can write fines to their heart's content I guess."




Your math is wrong. It isn't anything like 100%. So don't expect any support from the minority that have complied and continue to comply."




Yep, from them I expect lies and virtue signaling about how they do everything perfectly.


In the meantime, there are probably less than 5 occupied campsites a discerning ranger could visit right now that could not be found in violation of something within this order."


I've read the order and cannot figure out how you are making it sound impossible to comply. It seems most people that claim someone else is virtue signaling are themselves virtue signaling.....
 
ockycamper
distinguished member(1372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/04/2021 12:07PM  
Compliance is simple. Use a Bearvault or similar device. Everything else must be hung including blue barrels, Ursacks and food packs. What is so hard to comply with that?
 
treehorn
distinguished member(715)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/04/2021 01:23PM  
THEGrandRapids: "
treehorn: "
gravelroad: "
treehorn: "I reckon there are roughly 0% of BWCA campers right now that are following this to a T. And I would be among the 100%. Especially if the blue barrels don't count.




The FS can write fines to their heart's content I guess."




Your math is wrong. It isn't anything like 100%. So don't expect any support from the minority that have complied and continue to comply."




Yep, from them I expect lies and virtue signaling about how they do everything perfectly.



In the meantime, there are probably less than 5 occupied campsites a discerning ranger could visit right now that could not be found in violation of something within this order."



I've read the order and cannot figure out how you are making it sound impossible to compile. It seems most people that claim someone else is virtue signaling are themselves virtue signaling..... "


I'm virtue signaling that I'm a messy camper? No.

I'm just speaking on reality's terms.

It's been discussed a thousand times...hanging a bag according to the regs is almost impossible in many, many situations. So that right there...violations for 90% of campers.

Then, let's talk about the bottle of deet left out after hanging so you can defend against the dusk mosquitoes...violation. The toothpaste and deodorant that at least half of campers do not keep in their food bags...violation. The dish rags someone used to clean up with hanging on the clothesline instead of packed in the (improperly hung) food bag...violation.

Do you see where I'm going?

I'm not even complaining about the order, just saying that virtually nobody will be able to follow it to the letter.
 
uqme2
distinguished member (182)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/04/2021 03:07PM  
So I looked to see what a BV500 was exactly... My first thought was how big is that and how am I suppose to open that thing?

"Screw-on lid is intuitive and secure, and doesn't require extra tools to operate; no need to overtighten; see instructional video on how to properly open and close container"

I couldn't find the video but I'm old and don't have the patience I once did.

A little help please?

https://www.rei.com/product/768902/bearvault-bv500-food-container
 
ockycamper
distinguished member(1372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/04/2021 03:16PM  
The lids are "ratcheting". To screw on just turn until it "clicks". To screw off, push on the tab with a finger nail and screw the lid off. The ratcheting system is why the bears can't get them open.
 
08/04/2021 05:57PM  
The video is right there on the REI web page for the BearVault. "Image" 2 of 10.
 
08/06/2021 10:53AM  
Bear technique

A food storage order, initiated July 30, is the result of increases in human-bear interactions with negative outcomes.
Superior National Forest wildlife biologist Cheron Ferland said the rise in interactions is the result of a number of factors. “We finalized a new bear action plan this year which calls for more systematic reporting, so we probably have more reports being submitted, but this by itself doesn’t account for the increase. It’s also because there are more visitors on the landscape and the fact that we are in an extreme drought, which has led to a poor berry crop,” Ferland said.
This year, the National Forest has asked the public and employees to report any and all bear interactions. The reports include bears at individual campsites, digging in dumpsters at campgrounds or other facilities, and stealing backpacks.
Forest officials also point out that not all reports of interactions with bears are negative or a cause for alarm. Reports may also include general bear sightings to help biologists better understand bear travel patterns in the Forest.
“This is bear-country, people are going to see black bears. They live here. That’s not concerning to me, but bears at dumpsters, lingering at campsites and stealing packs is. Once they get a reward, or food, they will keep doing whatever it takes to get that reward again,” Ferland said.

 
08/06/2021 11:14AM  
uqme2: "So I looked to see what a BV500 was exactly... My first thought was how big is that and how am I suppose to open that thing?"


Hopefully this will help. I just picked on up the other day and had to figure it out too. I am not sure what Bearvault calls these things, but I called them Knobs and Stopper.




 
08/06/2021 11:21AM  
Two "stoppers" is new since I bought mine . . .
 
08/06/2021 12:31PM  
boonie: "Two "stoppers" is new since I bought mine . . . "

That's two "knobs" and one "stopper", of course I just made those names up :) I seem to recall them working differently a few years ago. I hope I have the "Anti-YellowYellow" version!
 
08/06/2021 12:41PM  
Jaywalker: "
uqme2: "So I looked to see what a BV500 was exactly... My first thought was how big is that and how am I suppose to open that thing?"



Hopefully this will help. I just picked on up the other day and had to figure it out too. I am not sure what Bearvault calls these things, but I called them Knobs and Stopper.






"


I saw a youtube video where you use a small credit card type thing, put it in the stopper, turn the lid and the nobs slide right past.
 
08/06/2021 02:16PM  
Jaywalker: "
boonie: "Two "stoppers" is new since I bought mine . . . "

That's two "knobs" and one "stopper", of course I just made those names up :) I seem to recall them working differently a few years ago. I hope I have the "Anti-YellowYellow" version!"


Yeah, I meant two knobs ;) And I was wondering if they did that because of YellowYellow.
 
yellowcanoe
distinguished member(4984)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
08/06/2021 08:10PM  
boonie: "
Jaywalker: "
boonie: "Two "stoppers" is new since I bought mine . . . "

That's two "knobs" and one "stopper", of course I just made those names up :) I seem to recall them working differently a few years ago. I hope I have the "Anti-YellowYellow" version!"



Yeah, I meant two knobs ;) And I was wondering if they did that because of YellowYellow.
"


I think so. Bear Vault 500 was banned in the Eastern High Peaks of the Adirondacks ten years or so ago as Yellow Yellow and her progeny could open them. Instead of the BV 500 people getting indignant they tweaked the design. Now NYS does not ban the Bear Vault.
 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2885)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/07/2021 04:52AM  
LindenTree: "
Jaywalker: "
uqme2: "So I looked to see what a BV500 was exactly... My first thought was how big is that and how am I suppose to open that thing?"




Hopefully this will help. I just picked on up the other day and had to figure it out too. I am not sure what Bearvault calls these things, but I called them Knobs and Stopper.







"



I saw a youtube video where you use a small credit card type thing, put it in the stopper, turn the lid and the nobs slide right past."

That might be worth having a look at because for those with weak arm strength it can be a challenge. I have the BV450 and I have trouble at times getting those tabs past the stops.
update: I used a Cabela's Club Rewards card this morning. Easy! I'll carry it in a zippered shirt pocket.
 
Bearpath9
distinguished member (364)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/07/2021 07:11AM  
yellowcanoe: "
Bearpath9: "Already have one BV500, and I do like it. Seems like now is time to invest in another. Have a solo coming up in a couple of weeks, just freeze dried food, but I was wondering what to do with the garbage in case I happen upon some easily fooled fish. I do know that you can cram 15 of those freeze dried packets in one BV500. Too lazy to go back to hanging."



Are you our postie who delights in cramming all our held mail in our locked mailbox..so much that we can't open it ( the latch won't turn) and get the mail out. Never without a struggle. Right below there is a set of package boxes.......??LOL"


No, not me. I did work for the Post Office for 33 long years, but never as a carrier. Mostly loading and unloading trailers. Your mailbox probably has nothing on some of the trailers I have unloaded. A few you couldn't get the door up without using a lift, due to the driver thinking he is in a race or something.

 
Exaybachay
member (13)member
  
08/07/2021 12:22PM  
I found this on the internet. Not sure if this is the requirement but I’m looking at the list for options.

http://igbconline.org/certified-products-list/
 
08/07/2021 04:42PM  
Exaybachay: "I found this on the internet. Not sure if this is the requirement but I’m looking at the list for options.


http://igbconline.org/certified-products-list/"


I was referred to that list for any made of "solid, non-pliable material", i.e. NOT Ursack.
 
08/07/2021 04:44PM  
Exaybachay: "I found this on the internet. Not sure if this is the requirement but I’m looking at the list for options.


Yes, and no. Yes, that is the list of bear-food devices "certified" by the IGBC, which is a group of wildlife and land use managers from a variety of agencies like the NPS, Forest Service, BLM, Fish and Wildlife, and some state agencies from out west. They do an technical evaluation of each product submitted for testing, then if it passes do a live bear test in West Yellowstone with captive grizzlies - each product gets 60 minutes of "bear time" in the test.

But no, not all the items on their certified list meet the standards set forward in the recent order by the Superior National Forest. For instance, Ursacks were certified by the IGBC, but are dis-allowed by the SNF. Each national forests, national park, or other land use group sets their own standards based on their situation. If you are looking for a list of canisters, that list will do. I believe the coolers on that list would also be allowed in the BWCA right now if that is what you want, as I think they meet the standard of hard sided or whatever the wording in the order was.

EDIT: I originally used the word approved regarding IGBC testing, but just changed it to certified to be more accurate.
 
      Print Top Bottom Previous Next
Listening Point - General Discussion Sponsor:
Canoe Country