Not sure if I am just late to the party, but I just noticed...

Last year NS made 4 custom carbon-fiber Polaris canoes for Piragis, I recall they were about 34 lbs and looked sweet.

It would appear that they are now offering the "Stealth" layup on certain models to the general public (includes carbon fiber gunwales & carbon fiber seats).

Those models appear to be: Polaris, Northwind 16, 17, & 18, Northwind Solo and the Trillium.

All show weights of 4-6 pounds less than their starlite/aluminum gunwale counterparts. Notably, a Polaris would be 32 pounds, and a NW 17 is 34. The Trillium is only 21 lbs.

Surprised this has not received (more? any?) attention.

One thing I love that Bill swift does is the YouTube channel showing all his latest canoes and features. Always have wondered why others are not doing the same.

Bill's a really good promoter; he does make great boats for the most part, and they tend to be head-turners.

Surprisingly heavy however considering...lightest carbon fiber layup for a swift is about 15-30% heavier than the comparable "stealth" offering from Northstar (and Savage River & Placid Boatworks for that matter).

Northstar canoes does have a YouTube channel,. Surely they have a fb page.

sns: "Bill's a really good promoter; he does make great boats for the most part, and they tend to be head-turners.


Surprisingly heavy however considering...lightest carbon fiber layup for a swift is about 15-30% heavier than the comparable "stealth" offering from Northstar (and Savage River & Placid Boatworks for that matter)."

Shouldn't they be good promoters? I would think it's their job to sell their boats. I find it surprising NS, Wenonah and Savage River aren't leveraging YT to promote the boats.

I will readily admit, one of the biggest selling points on going with Swift was their YouTube channel, and wealth of info and comparisons available . They made it real easy to zero-in on what I think would work best for my need. Makes it a LOT easier to start discarding options before you even go for a test paddle. But even more-so when it was really difficult to get out for a test paddle because of covid supply chain issues.

Even better, you can wander over to their FB page, and the Swift owners FB Group, ask questions, and Bill Swift will answer them directly - even shooting you a private message inviting you to ask more questions. He really puts himself out there and makes himself available to his prospective costumers, as well as his current customers.

As far as boat weight comparisons:

Swift Keeywadin 15 (15' boat) carbon fusion is 27 pounds. Can get it down to 26 with the Carbon Thwarts and handles. Optimal Load = 160-320#'s.

Swift Keeywadin 14 (14' boat) carbon fusion is 26 pounds. Can get it down to 25 pounds with carbon thwarts and handles. Optimal Load = 140-300#'s

Swift Cruiser 14.6 Pack (14' 6") in carbon Fusion is 24 pounds in standard configuration. Optimal load = 140-280#'s

Swift 13.6 Pack (13' 8") in carbon fusion is 24 pounds in standard configuration - add carbon thwarts and handles, and it drops to about 23 pounds. optimal load = 140-280#

Swift's Carbon Fusion is a blend of Carbon, Kevlar and Innegra. They also add a thin layer of UV protectant gel coat - which certainly adds to the beauty and a bit of weight to their boats.



Wenonah Vagabond (14' 6") is 30 pounds in their ultra-lite aramid. Doesn't specify optimal load.

Wenonah Fusion (13' long) is 30 pounds in their ultra-light aramid. Doesn't specify optimal load.



NS Firebird (13' 6") Starlite is 25 pounds. Optimal load = 100-240#'s

NS Trillium (14' 6") starlight is 25 pounds (21 pounds in Stealth). Optimal load = 120-260#'s.

To be fair: the Stealth layup is new to their website offering; it wasn't available on any of their single boats last year when I was looking to buy. It's cool it's now available on select models in 2022.

The NS Stealth Layup specifically states you're giving up durability for the extra 4 pound weight savings. It also comes with the E6 gunnels (carbon gunnels - a la Swift and Placid), which contributes to the 4 pound saving over the Starlite layup.

I love the "black look" of the Stealth and Blacklite layups from Northstar. Beautiful looking boats. I do wish NS offered something similar to the Prospector 14 Pack with their layups - and could keep the weight to around 25 pounds total. It's crazy how well that Swift boat is selling. I would have preferred to buy from a US maker - but no one is really making anything similar to that particular Swift model right now.


Placid Boatworks Oseetah (14') ultra lite is 20 pounds. Optimal load = 120 - (guessing) 250#'s.

Placid Boatworks was the lightest by far when I was looking. Their durability, IMO, is a bit suspect after seeing someone pop a thwart on a YouTube video after he leaned on it a bit. And being Placid boats aren't offered anywhere through any distribution channels, I took them off my list - and I did consider their boat. But the 15 hour drive to pick up, and 15 hour drive home just wasn't appealing. Then having to repeat that twice if I popped a thwart, or something else happened to the boat.

If I lived within 3-4 hours of the Placid Boatworks, it would have been hard not to consider them far more strongly.

Can you actually buy these layups…I emailed them…but I couldn’t find any distributors/dealers that sell this version. I tried to buy a Northwind 20 a year or two ago and I couldn’t get one ordered from any local dealer. Tried to buy direct and Northstar turned me away?

I’ll post if I hear anything.

T

timatkn: " I tried to buy a Northwind 20 a year or two ago and I couldn’t get one ordered from any local dealer. Tried to buy direct and Northstar turned me away?


I’ll post if I hear anything.


T"

To be fair Northstar does not operate in retail sales on new canoes. They clearly list the retailers on their website.
Northstar Retailers

campnfish: "One thing I love that Bill swift does is the YouTube channel showing all his latest canoes and features. Always have wondered why others are not doing the same. "

Bill Swift's videos annoy the hell out of me. They contain next to no useful information about the canoes other than going over the most obvious features and talking about how beautiful everything is. Seriously, take a drink every time Bill Swift says, "beautiful." Do a shot whenever he says, "tres magnifieque."

I much prefer Bear's discourse videos as he provides far more useful information about the canoes including comparing and contrasting various models and materials as well as some basic selection and usage advice. Much better than a Swift car salesman listing features like adjustable seats and removeable yokes which we can plainly see with our eyes then telling us how beautiful cherry wood is over and over.

I don't find Bill annoying, but as you stated you really don't learn anything that you can't get from the website specs. Bear's videos on the other hand have been very informative and helpful to me.

mschi772: "

campnfish: "One thing I love that Bill swift does is the YouTube channel showing all his latest canoes and features. Always have wondered why others are not doing the same. "

Bill Swift's videos annoy the hell out of me. They contain next to no useful information about the canoes other than going over the most obvious features and talking about how beautiful everything is. Seriously, take a drink every time Bill Swift says, "beautiful." Do a shot whenever he says, "tres magnifieque."


I much prefer Bear's discourse videos as he provides far more useful information about the canoes including comparing and contrasting various models and materials as well as some basic selection and usage advice. Much better than a Swift car salesman listing features like adjustable seats and removeable yokes which we can plainly see with our eyes then telling us how beautiful cherry wood is over and over."

Bear provides useful information about models and materials, while Swift provides cars salesman features like, adjustable seats and removable yolks?

Swift material comparison

If all you got out of the comparisons from Swift was car salesman who over uses the word "beautiful" - and their boats are ridiculously beautiful compared to just about everyone else - save Placid Boatworks - then you just have a disdain for Swift boats, Bill's delivery or both. Whatever. They're selling to newbs as well as seasoned paddlers, so keeping it relatively simple while showcasing distinct differences between their boats and other boat makers seems to be working really well.

I like Bear's info - but they don't actually "showcase" their boats...

I agree Bear rocks the information department. He'll also respond to email questions pretty quickly too.

martian: "I agree Bear rocks the information department. He'll also respond to email questions pretty quickly too. "

He's also a member here....

It seems Swift's targeting a broader audience - newbscand beginner's as well as experienced. Northstar is more focused on intermediate to I advanced paddlers. I have no trouble with that being different. And I love my Swift Prospector 14 pack. I will say Swift's pack seat is superior by far to any other pack seat.

A little east and Canada vs Midwest and made in America differentiation as well.

Look at the Stealth section on the right...

MidwestFirecraft: "

timatkn: " I tried to buy a Northwind 20 a year or two ago and I couldn’t get one ordered from any local dealer. Tried to buy direct and Northstar turned me away?



I’ll post if I hear anything.



T"

To be fair Northstar does not operate in retail sales on new canoes. They clearly list the retailers on their website.
Northstar Retailers "

Yep…as I said checked in with the dealers first…no dice…contacted them directly no dice. Have read of many people buying direct in the same situation on this very site so tried that…no dice. Not really complaining just stating facts.

T

timatkn: "

MidwestFirecraft: "

timatkn: " I tried to buy a Northwind 20 a year or two ago and I couldn’t get one ordered from any local dealer. Tried to buy direct and Northstar turned me away?



I’ll post if I hear anything.



T"

To be fair Northstar does not operate in retail sales on new canoes. They clearly list the retailers on their website.
Northstar Retailers "

Yep…as I said checked in with the dealers first…no dice…contacted them directly no dice. Have read of many people buying direct in the same situation on this very site so tried that…no dice. Not really complaining just stating facts.


T"

Didn't say you complained. I have never heard of anyone purchasing a "new" canoe from them. I have purchased used as well as parts from them directly. If others have done that I can see how that would be frustrating to you.

It depends a bunch on your local dealers. Both my boats were ordered the fall before I needed them and both were special orders. Carbon bits and whatnot. These were included in the dealers bulk order for the season. There were no local dealers for us so I found one close enough who was willing to place the order. There must be someplace willing to bring in exactly what you're wanting.

Ya know midwestfirecraft…it was frustrating but life always seems to work out. We rented a Northwoods 20 one year…the next year fires cancelled going back to the Q, and then fires canceled alternative trip to the BWCA. Now I am rethinking the 20 to a tandem and there are more options than there was… So my frustration maybe was a blessing? Just missed doing local trips.

T

That's a great attitude. I hope the delay ends up being for the better and you get the tandem in the layup you are after.

Well I just pulled the trigger on a Stealth NW 17! Just gotta pick it up, I'll post pictures as soon as I get it.

Was going to get a NW 20 4 seater...then couldn't find one then I was thinking a custom Savage River... but I called around and found the NW 17 Stealth in stock.

Like that it is made locally just in case I have issues. I can get it now. Sold my old one (Souris River 18.5) in 2020 and have been budgeting for a awhile so sticker shock wasn't bad...but the transmission went out on my RAV4 and my dishwasher stopped working...almost backed out, but hey ya only live once :)

T

Sweet! Looking forward to the pics.

MidwestFirecraft: "Sweet! Looking forward to the pics. "

Indeed - pics at a minimum. Some of us will want to drool over it in person if you're in MN and willing.

Congrats!

Well cool, worked out even better. In Stock no wait, AWESOME!!. Pics for sure. Enjoy!

Picked up my new Northwind 17 Stealth today at Piragis. They have an 18 arriving tomorrow not sure if it was sold yet or not. A nice solo was in the shop…I’ll post pics later, already sold. Was told I bought just in time. Prices are going up another $200-500 for all canoes (all of them not just the carbon ones) depending on make/model due to increased cost of materials. C-R-A-Z-Y times.

It has internal skid plates, unlike last years stealth they did not color the interior Kevlar black. Was a little disappointed but still looks sharp. The interior is Kevlar, the outer is area innegra/carbon, trim, seats, yoke, thwarts are all carbon. The seats are still hung with Ash, they haven’t found a suitable carbon alternative.


There were about 10 accidents on the way back to the cities due to icy roads was super nervous :) 2 sections on 35 were so bad they had traffic re-routed…hope no one was hurt bad.

Here are some pics of the Northstar Solo at Piragis. 23# WOW!
This is the only one they had and it was already sold.

timatkn: "Picked up my new Northwind 17 Stealth today at Piragis. They have an 18 arriving tomorrow not sure if it was sold yet or not. A nice solo was in the shop…I’ll post pics later, already sold. Was told I bought just in time. Prices are going up another $200-500 for all canoes (all of them not just the carbon ones) depending on make/model due to increased cost of materials. C-R-A-Z-Y times.


It has internal skid plates, unlike last years stealth they did not color the interior Kevlar black. Was a little disappointed but still looks sharp. The interior is Kevlar, the outer is area innegra/carbon, trim, seats, yoke, thwarts are all carbon. The seats are still hung with Ash, they haven’t found a suitable carbon alternative.



There were about 10 accidents on the way back to the cities due to icy roads was super nervous :) 2 sections on 35 were so bad they had traffic re-routed…hope no one was hurt bad.












"

Best pic is the one with your new canoe strapped to your car! Congrats!

Amazing! For what it's worth I think the contrast of the black carbon and natural kevlar is beautiful. It also might be real nice on a 90 degree day:) Glad she made it back safely and I hope you and your family have many great adventures in her. Thanks for sharing the pics.

That’s awesome! Congrats!! A stealth Polararis is my dream canoe. Maybe someday.
Glad you made it home safely. We were up in Ely Presidents’ Day weekend and ended up packing up and driving home in the evening instead of the following morning to beat that snowstorm.

Agree MidwestFireCraft it’s growing on me. As I said earlier things seem to work out in the end :)

For I35 it was a nice sunny, warm day but windy, snow drifted across the interstate all day and melted in the sun, then as the sun went down it must of turned to ice. Roads were 99% snow and ice free…but then randomly you hit a patch of ice. It wasn’t that bad but I am guessing if it caught you unaware on a curve or while passing it could be dangerous based on the road closures and many cars/semis in the ditch.

T

Beautiful boat - enjoy for many years!

MidwestFirecraft: "Amazing! For what it's worth I think the contrast of the black carbon and natural kevlar is beautiful. It also might be real nice on a 90 degree day:) Glad she made it back safely and I hope you and your family have many great adventures in her. Thanks for sharing the pics."

Agree. Looks super sweet. Hope that icy drifting on 35 is the toughest challenge that beauty will ever see. :-)

Thanks for sharing the canoe porn! Stunning ride.

If you get a chance to check actual vs claimed weight, I would be curious to hear...

sns: "Thanks for sharing the canoe porn! Stunning ride.


If you get a chance to check actual vs claimed weight, I would be curious to hear..."

I am curious about actual weight. The one I picked up had internal skid plates which is not part of the advertised weight. It’s what I wanted though so a nice surprise. After 18 years of a three seater Quetico LeTigre 18.5 it still almost feels light as a feather. Not sure when I will get around to weighing it.

T

Congrats, she's a beauty!

timatkn: "Picked up my new Northwind 17 Stealth today at Piragis. They have an 18 arriving tomorrow not sure if it was sold yet or not. A nice solo was in the shop…I’ll post pics later, already sold. Was told I bought just in time. Prices are going up another $200-500 for all canoes (all of them not just the carbon ones) depending on make/model due to increased cost of materials. C-R-A-Z-Y times.


It has internal skid plates, unlike last years stealth they did not color the interior Kevlar black. Was a little disappointed but still looks sharp. The interior is Kevlar, the outer is area innegra/carbon, trim, seats, yoke, thwarts are all carbon. The seats are still hung with Ash, they haven’t found a suitable carbon alternative.



There were about 10 accidents on the way back to the cities due to icy roads was super nervous :) 2 sections on 35 were so bad they had traffic re-routed…hope no one was hurt bad.











"

How is that layup working out, can you speak to it's durability or the specific needs it requires

I have only had it on the water 2x and I didn’t notice any difference in performance.

I haven’t been rough on it to know durability. My last Kevlar I was hard on and is still going strong at 20 years. The little bit I’ve paddled I can’t see expectations changing too much.

T

timatkn: "Here are some pics of the Northstar Solo at Piragis. 23# WOW!
This is the only one they had and it was already sold.










"

Holy COW that's a beautiful boat. I have been scouring for images of a Blacklite NW Solo or Magic with the full E6 trim / component package; I would think it would look similar (although guessing with white labeling), would be about the weight of the stock Starlite but more durable and stiffer. Has anyone seen one?

Ordered a Magic in Blacklite w/ full E6 layup and a carbon foot brace, will post pictures in the spring when it arrives

ISRO: "Ordered a Magic in Blacklite w/ full E6 layup and a carbon foot brace, will post pictures in the spring when it arrives"

They finally started making the Magic in this layup?!?

Well...I need another canoe like I need another hole in my head, but I am gonna need to consider this...

Sweet looking canoe! Definitely more expensive but it’s carbon fiber trim like you said except for the seats.

Bear told me the added weight for internal skid plates is generally 1.5 lbs. That was for a B17 in IXP though. Not sure if it would vary on different canoe types and layups.

Bears videos were great as I was working through ordering a canoe and gaining a much greater understanding over the last few years. My canoe on order and being built this winter. I had to buy it through a retailer and could not buy directly from Northstar. I did have to order it this fall though when the special orders or dealer orders were going in. Glad I don’t have to store it yet since that will be an issue at my current house.

Swift definitely has the Pack boat market kind of nailed. Not sure I’d want to sit that low on a long trip though.

Ryan

I posted this way back but the weight was 34.5#.

It’s heavier now, I added tape measure, some mounts, rope, decals, portage pads, but total weight with the internal skid plates came out to 34.5# prior to self mods.

T