BWCA Topping off spare aluminum fuel bottles Boundary Waters Gear Forum
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Argo
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07/17/2022 09:54AM  
The recent discussion about how much white gas fuel to bring on a trip got me thinking...

I always thought the fill line on white gas fuel bottles, which can can rob you of over 1/10 of fuel on a 1 L or 34 oz bottle was designed to accommodate the volume of the pump, provide a suitable air chamber for compression and to ensure the intake stays above the fuel level when you flip the bottle to the "Off" position. While all of that is true, I figured since I only use my smaller 0.6 L or 20 oz bottle to run the stove, why not just top off the extra bottle(s)?

Fortunately, I decided to research this before relying on my theory. Turns out these aluminum bottles can rupture if overfilled and left in the sun. It seemed like most of what I found online was over twenty years old and perhaps the technology has improved. Regardless, if you had the same thought about topping off your spare bottles like I did, I would avoid doing so.
 
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MReid
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07/17/2022 12:38PM  
Don't leave filled spare bottles in the sun. Easy fix. Same goes for anything that might expand when hot.
 
billconner
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07/17/2022 06:26PM  
I've always filled spare to brim. No problems.
 
OCDave
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07/17/2022 08:02PM  
billconner: "I've always filled spare to brim. No problems. "
This is also my practice.

I can't recall when I have ever had cause to leave a spare fuel bottle warm in the sun.
 
Argo
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07/18/2022 06:39AM  
Okay thanks for the feedback. I was wondering if I'm being too cautious. I would prefer to top them up. And I'd limit the time they were topped up by depleting the overfill condition in the the first few days.
 
07/19/2022 07:16AM  
National Wildfire Coordinating Group warning for fuel bottles

This is a common problem with Sigg bottles and some others that use a thread insert, and the standard O-ring.
MSR bottles were designed from the beginning to be one piece, the "child proof cap"
also had other functions than being difficult to open.

butthead
 
DanCooke
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07/19/2022 08:56AM  
Thanks for the information Butthead, knowing the testing done and on what brands and construction differences explains a lot.
 
Argo
distinguished member (466)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/19/2022 10:12AM  
butthead: " National Wildfire Coordinating Group warning for fuel bottles


This is a common problem with Sigg bottles and some others that use a thread insert, and the standard O-ring.
MSR bottles were designed from the beginning to be one piece, the "child proof cap"
also had other functions than being difficult to open.


butthead"


That was the piece I read before posting. It's twenty years old and I'm not sure what improvements have occurred by the non-MSR manufacturers since then. I know Primus bottles are seamless but I'm not sure if they use a threaded insert. I can't tell by looking at it.

 
07/19/2022 02:09PM  
Excellent information butthead, thanks.
 
07/22/2022 10:52AM  


If you look close the crimp on to of the threaded insert is visible on the Sigg bottle left. The MSR bottle right has cut threads, no insert.

I still have a problem with users of MSR stoves flipping the fuel bottle to shut off. The MSR fuel line to pump connection is not designed to rotate like the quick fittings on Optimus and Primus fuel connections. Maybe I am over-cautious but the assembly is a potential pressurized fuel air bomb.

butthead
 
07/22/2022 06:21PM  
butthead: "

I still have a problem with users of MSR stoves flipping the fuel bottle to shut off. The MSR fuel line to pump connection is not designed to rotate like the quick fittings on Optimus and Primus fuel connections. Maybe I am over-cautious but the assembly is a potential pressurized fuel air bomb.

butthead"


At risk of sounding stupid (never stopped me before:) ) how do you flip a fuel bottle to shut the stove off? Is this relevant to my Dragonfly? I just turn the bottle valve off, let it drain the line to the stove, cool, then disconnect stove. There are specific instructions on how to do this…I am as guilty as any man on not reading instructions…except when the item can burn my face off…
 
07/22/2022 10:35PM  
Primus and Optimus stoves use a bayonet style fitting designed to rotate and the pumps are marked on/off on opposing sides. The MSR fuel connection is keyed in position and to turn requires forcing the fitting to slip over the fuel line termination.

butthead
 
07/23/2022 12:11AM  
I am still confused…I’ve never flipped an MSR bottle. I can’t imagine what people are doing.You put the line in…the safety pin locks it in place. I can’t see how you could even flip the fuel bottle? Sorry just having a hard time with the visual. Maybe that’s good I don’t understand?

I pretty much do This And can’t see any alternative?

T
 
07/23/2022 08:11AM  
Only thing I can think of is, some folks heard of or used Optimus or Primus stoves and forced the fuel line connection on MSR to do the same. My Optimus Nova does use the "flip the bottle" to force air into the fuel line. Even the oldest most used MSR stoves I have are very tight and do not flip without forcing the connection.

Anyway I see I wandered off topic of fuel bottle failures and just dumped in a practice I have seen and read about that seem hazardous.

butthead
 
08/12/2022 01:02PM  
Fill the spare bottle right up, keep out of sun, good to go. But always 100% test the seals on your bottles, they dry out easily, and if you keep them upright until you leave, you may not know they will leak. Fuel leak in a pack is badddddddddddddddddd, i know from experience, unfortunately. I test everything about the stove prior and have permanently added o rings for the bottles to my spares kit. They also need replacement every once in a while, lol, they dry out naturally.
 
blackdawg9
distinguished member (176)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/13/2022 08:10PM  
butthead: " National Wildfire Coordinating Group warning for fuel bottles


This is a common problem with Sigg bottles and some others that use a thread insert, and the standard O-ring.
MSR bottles were designed from the beginning to be one piece, the "child proof cap"
also had other functions than being difficult to open.


butthead"


I don't think your going to reach that kind of heat needed to make it bulge. That link is for wild fire firefighters. Where your going to hit high heat and external heat. Causing the bulge . Those guys were filling containers completely full. To fill saws and drip torches.. I know I have seen my saw tank swell in the heat. Maybe some of that is the gas oil mix? Just fill it up the hottest time of the day. Then pour some off, as soon as you can. I just wouldn't be hauling it in a hot barrel. Wet gas stoves aren't usually chosen for being lightest. Just add another can
 
MagicPaddler
distinguished member(1446)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2022 07:13AM  
I had a Colman tank split in my pack in the canoe. I leave a small air gap now.
 
08/14/2022 09:38AM  
blackdawg9: "butthead: " National Wildfire Coordinating Group warning for fuel bottles



This is a common problem with Sigg bottles and some others that use a thread insert, and the standard O-ring.
MSR bottles were designed from the beginning to be one piece, the "child proof cap"
also had other functions than being difficult to open.



butthead"



I don't think your going to reach that kind of heat needed to make it bulge. That link is for wild fire firefighters. Where your going to hit high heat and external heat. Causing the bulge . Those guys were filling containers completely full. To fill saws and drip torches.. I know I have seen my saw tank swell in the heat. Maybe some of that is the gas oil mix? Just fill it up the hottest time of the day. Then pour some off, as soon as you can. I just wouldn't be hauling it in a hot barrel. Wet gas stoves aren't usually chosen for being lightest. Just add another can"


I'm more concerned with thread failure than bulging and the (old?) SIGG use an insert that is crimped and a potential failure point. MSR dose not use an insert. That was the point of my post.

butthead
 
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