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mutz
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08/04/2022 07:09PM  
I know this has been beat to death, but can’t find the threads.
One member of our group had an OUIL in 2011 so has been over ten years, can he get into Canada? Thanks for any help
 
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08/04/2022 07:38PM  
As long as it has been at least 10 years since he COMPLETED all sentencing, including any probation he's fine. If it's between 5 to 10 years he would need to apply for a waiver. This is also assuming it's his first offense and there were no other criminal charges with it.
Jackfish
Moderator
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08/04/2022 08:57PM  
OUIL? That’s a new one to me. Same as DUI or different?
mutz
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08/04/2022 09:27PM  
Jackfish: "OUIL? That’s a new one to me. Same as DUI or different?"



Here in Michigan it is OUIL, same as DUIL, operating rather than driving
mutz
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08/04/2022 09:30PM  
dschult2: "As long as it has been at least 10 years since he COMPLETED all sentencing, including any probation he's fine. If it's between 5 to 10 years he would need to apply for a waiver. This is also assuming it's his first offense and there were no other criminal charges with it."


Thanks for the info.
08/04/2022 09:39PM  
You could have him apply for an RABC. If he passes the RABC scrutiny, then he will pass any other scrutiny and be allowed to enter. Could maybe even use the RABC to get in. It’s $30 but better to know ahead of time than be turned away at the border.

T
billconner
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08/05/2022 06:21AM  
Some years ago I entered CA at Fort Frances. The agent did not care I had an RABC from a trip earlier that year, and didn't - refused to - look at it. The officers have a lot of discretion.
08/05/2022 07:39AM  
Jackfish: "OUIL? That’s a new one to me. Same as DUI or different?"


Until 2003, Operating Under the Influence of Liquor. Now Michigan uses OWI acronym.

I still don't understand the MI term "millage" instead of tax
cmanimal
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08/05/2022 09:51AM  
bobbernumber3: "
Jackfish: "OUIL? That’s a new one to me. Same as DUI or different?"



Until 2003, Operating Under the Influence of Liquor. Now Michigan uses OWI acronym.

I still don't understand the MI term "millage" instead of tax"


Millage is a method of calculating the tax (usually property). So my guess is instead of have a sentence they dropped it to one word.
Porkeater
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08/05/2022 12:22PM  
billconner: "Some years ago I entered CA at Fort Frances. The agent did not care I had an RABC from a trip earlier that year, and didn't - refused to - look at it. The officers have a lot of discretion. "


I think the point was not that the RABC would grant him entry at a border crossing, but rather that they would be looking at the same information. If he can get an RABC, then he should be allowed to enter at a border crossing.
08/05/2022 05:00PM  
Porkeater: "
billconner: "Some years ago I entered CA at Fort Frances. The agent did not care I had an RABC from a trip earlier that year, and didn't - refused to - look at it. The officers have a lot of discretion. "



I think the point was not that the RABC would grant him entry at a border crossing, but rather that they would be looking at the same information. If he can get an RABC, then he should be allowed to enter at a border crossing. "


Yea I thought the RABC might help cross, but I’ll defer to billconnor. But yes if you can get an RABC you will be allowed to cross the border was the intent. The scrutiny for an RABC is the same as the highest background check they will do on you at the border. So ya get the RABC…you are good to go. Otherwise you are just taking chances and hoping :)

T
billconner
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08/05/2022 06:02PM  
Canadian details here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/inadmissibility/overcome-criminal-convictions.html

I've heard the 10 yr number but does anyone know if it's in the regulations or just seems to be the practice?
08/05/2022 07:22PM  
I don't want to be a Negative Nellie, but if it were me, I would have a solid Plan B in place should the border crossing not go your way.
08/05/2022 08:45PM  
billconner: "Canadian details here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/inadmissibility/overcome-criminal-convictions.html


I've heard the 10 yr number but does anyone know if it's in the regulations or just seems to be the practice? "


Just to expand on the ten year rule. If ten years have passed since the offense than you were automatically "deemed rehabilitated" and could enter Canada. On December 18th 2018 drunk driving law was changed to a minimum 10 year prison sentence and no more automatic rehabilitation. You now had to apply for rehabilitation no matter how much time had passed. This immediately made thousands of people ineligible to enter Canada that previously had been admissible. Such an uproar was raised that Canada grandfathered in automatic deemed rehabilitation for anybody with an offense prior to December 18th 2018 but nobody after. So if you had a dui after Dec 18th your sol no matter how much time has passed You will have to apply for a travel permit or deemed rehabilitation. Also this is a change in policy not law so who knows if they change their mind in the future. deemed rehabilitation .
08/06/2022 11:12AM  
sns: "I don't want to be a Negative Nellie, but if it were me, I would have a solid Plan B in place should the border crossing not go your way."


That’s why he should do the RABC…then you know 100% if you are in or out ahead of time. If you can pass an RABC background check, then you can pass a border check.

T
billconner
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08/06/2022 05:55PM  
timatkn: "
sns: "I don't want to be a Negative Nellie, but if it were me, I would have a solid Plan B in place should the border crossing not go your way."



That’s why he should do the RABC…then you know 100% if you are in or out ahead of time. If you can pass an RABC background check, then you can pass a border check.


T"


This suggests an RABC check is more rigorous then a check at the border, which is possible, but I'd be more concerned about a car full of people with lots of gear then people paying extra to cross remotely.

The fellow probably gets in with no big deal, but I would not be 100% guaranteeing entrance.
08/07/2022 01:14PM  
When you sign up for an RABC you are subjected to a full background check. The whole purpose of the RABC is that you are going through customs electronically ahead of time to make sure you are eligible to enter Canada under their rules. They run ya through the system every time as it is easy for them to do.

If you cross the border, they run random background checks, but it is the same process as an RABC. Thus if you pass an RABC then you will pass the most rigorous border check.

So you can chance it…that they might not check you as you cross…I wouldn’t do that by the way…or you can see if you are blocked from entering by doing the RABC.

I’d do the RABC before trying to get rehabilitated as maybe you don’t show up anymore on background checks, if you start the rehabilitation process now you just alerted them to a potential prior issue/conviction. If the RABC is denied…then ya know the next step.

I am not a lawyer by any means LOL… but unfortunately I’ve had friends and family in this situation and I can tell you it works. If they clear the RABC they’ve never had trouble crossing the border.

FYI I am not so sure it is a given if your offense is over 10 years you will be allowed entry. There are a lot of factors they can look at.

T
billconner
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08/07/2022 05:33PM  
Ultimately up to discretion of the agent.
08/07/2022 08:13PM  
billconner: "Ultimately up to discretion of the agent."


Actually it isn’t. The Canadians, just like every country in the world have a clear set of criteria for entry into their country.

The discretion part is how you behave? Are you suspicious? They can deny entry based on that. Also the discretion part is whether they choose to do a background check or not at the border…but if they do a background check…either you pass the background check or not. An agent can’t let someone through that defies their laws. No country relies on their National Security for a Barney Fife to just make a decision at the border???

T
IowaFishinGuy
senior member (81)senior membersenior member
  
09/03/2022 07:54AM  
1 OWI, you’ll get in no problem. 2, you have to request and fill out paperwork for a Temporary Residence Permit. I know this because my group for this years fly in trip had 2 guys with 1, and 1 with 2. We made sure that nobody would be denied entry because we didn’t want the trip screwed up last minute.

The border agent was more concerned about the guy with a medical exemption for the vax due to a heart condition than he was about convicted drunk drivers.
allfish
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09/30/2022 03:25PM  
Sorry, I am not really up on all this stuff, so have the Canadians backed-off on any of this border-crossing/DUI stuff? We have a guy who wants to go next year, and he has one, thanks!
10/03/2022 01:53PM  
allfish: "Sorry, I am not really up on all this stuff, so have the Canadians backed-off on any of this border-crossing/DUI stuff? We have a guy who wants to go next year, and he has one, thanks!"

They actually made it harder. When did he get it?
Viking
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10/04/2022 01:09PM  
Thanks dschult2! This buddy of ours is a good guy, but kind of troubled, he has had at least a couple of the last few years. We want to do the shuttle out of Crane Lake up to Quetico, if he can't enter Canada, we would have to stay on the U.S side, and do a longer paddle in from Nina Moose, or Fall/Mudro up to Crooked Lake.
10/04/2022 01:34PM  
Viking: "Thanks dschult2! This buddy of ours is a good guy, but kind of troubled, he has had at least a couple of the last few years. We want to do the shuttle out of Crane Lake up to Quetico, if he can't enter Canada, we would have to stay on the U.S side, and do a longer paddle in from Nina Moose, or Fall/Mudro up to Crooked Lake. "

Sorry to hear that. It sucks but with two in the last few years it is going to be very difficult. There is no deemed rehabilitated for him. As stated earlier he would need to apply for a TPR (temporary residence permit). It costs a few hundred dollars and is quite a lengthy process (6 monthes at least). After five years he can apply for criminal rehabilitation and if approved would be good from there on out. No further action needed. I believe both options require quite a bit of paperwork and homework so it would probably be beneficial to contact a Canadian immigration lawyer.
billconner
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10/22/2022 05:03AM  
Not everyone gets in every time.

denied entry article
11/01/2022 07:30AM  
billconner: "Not everyone gets in every time.


denied entry article "


That’s why you do the RABC ahead of time. Then you know.

The Zac Brown band crossed into Canada many times and were never checked. For some reason this agent decided to run their criminal history this one time—-which is what they do when you apply for an RABC—-and their criminal history was revealed, thus denial. They played Russian Roulette many times and won, but ultimately got checked. You can argue the validity of how bad the criminal record was or if in the US it was off the record or not…but none of that matters to a foreign country with different laws. I prefer to know what might happen.

T
11/02/2022 08:31AM  
billconner: "Not everyone gets in every time.


denied entry article "

I feel that there is more to this than just a band's prepared press release. If they had indeed crossed 2 times prior in the last year the border agent would have seen that as well if he/she pulled up said person's record. Just wondering what would make them say 'not on my watch'. I guess we'll never know.
11/02/2022 10:31AM  
90% of the time or more I’d guess they don’t pull your criminal record. I have a co-worker who has family in Canada. He has never been checked nor had his criminal record pulled in literally hundreds of crossings…until after 2016…they pulled his record and questioned him about everything…thoughts on gun control, Trump getting elected…speeding tickets. Tore his car apart…ultimately let him cross as they had no reason to stop him. Ironically he hated Trump, but his Canadian citizen mom loves him :) He surmised agents were adding scrutiny over the 2016 election results…but who knows could be a coincidence.

I’ve known fishing groups that have guys with OWI or DWI’s be allowed entry for 10 years straight because their background was never checked, then one year they all get checked and 2-3 had to walk back over the bridge and get a bus home…they called it the walk of shame. They just took their chances until they were busted…I suspect that’s the case with the Zac Brown band…they just finally got fully checked. The ones denied probably never knew they had something on their record that might cause them an entry denial.

T
11/02/2022 01:08PM  
dschult2: "
billconner: "Not everyone gets in every time.



denied entry article "

I feel that there is more to this than just a band's prepared press release. If they had indeed crossed 2 times prior in the last year the border agent would have seen that as well if he/she pulled up said person's record. Just wondering what would make them say 'not on my watch'. I guess we'll never know."


Totally agree. I would just add:

- The management of a band of this magnitude should have known better and been prepared for international travel.

- They could still have performed. They chose not to. Apparently they never heard of performers' exclamation, "The show must go on!" The 'we are a tribe' solidarity stuff and the 'we only play where we are welcome' doesn't fly with me. That was a weak platform for snubbing thousands of fans - many of whom traveled great distances and parted with hard-earned dollars to 'welcome' them.

- This was a terrible judgement call on the part of the CBSA. Thousands more than just the band were disadvantaged by their decision. This was a discretionary call and something should have been worked out.

-Petty grandstanding by all parties.
billconner
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11/02/2022 05:50PM  
billconner: "Ultimately up to discretion of the agent."


Like I said, and contrary to "An agent can’t let someone through that defies their laws." it seems they did. With all due respect, no system involving this many people over decades is flawless. I'm sure this is not the only instance of inconsistency.
11/02/2022 06:18PM  
billconner: "
billconner: "Ultimately up to discretion of the agent."



Like I said, and contrary to "An agent can’t let someone through that defies their laws." it seems they did. With all due respect, no system involving this many people over decades is flawless. I'm sure this is not the only instance of inconsistency."


I don’t think they were let in before in contrary to their laws. The Canadians simply don’t background check every person that crosses the border. An agent simply never selected them to be checked before. I gave 2 examples above of people going for 10 years or more and never had a background check. One very similar to the band where an agent decided to check them and a few came back with DWI’s and were denied. The other 9 times they were let through the agent simply didn’t check them…that is the discretion of the agent…The agent didn’t know they had a DWI…

The discretion is: should I do a criminal Hx or not, should I search their car or not…once a violation is found the agent doesn’t have the discretion to let people in or not. The law determines that.

Maybe I am wrong? But I have personal stories to back it up. I trust my co-worker he has crossed hundreds of times since ‘97.

T
billconner
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11/03/2022 05:54AM  
Do you think that same agent, when you show up in person to apply for an RABC in person, doesn't use the same discretion?

I don't think it's any different than a state trooper or other Leo let's you off with a warning, contrary to their laws. Just not black and white.
11/03/2022 07:00AM  
I assume that been processed by one agent means they were on a tour bus. That means this was a land crossing and it was likely at the discretion of the agent whether to check these guys or not.


But maybe you're right Tim. Once they were checked and their criminal past was discovered perhaps there was no discretion. But the act of checking at a land crossing is discretionary. This is supported by the band's previous successful crossings near Toronto.




11/03/2022 09:48PM  
billconner: "Do you think that same agent, when you show up in person to apply for an RABC in person, doesn't use the same discretion?


I don't think it's any different than a state trooper or other Leo let's you off with a warning, contrary to their laws. Just not black and white."


When you apply for an RABC they check your criminal history 100% of the time. You are asking for special permission to cross the border remotely they take extra precautions.

I researched this…when you cross the border by car. An agent can check your criminal history at their discretion but they most often don’t. It takes time and slows the crossing. Once again that is the discretion part. Whether they check you depends on how you present yourself or if they have a suspicion.

The Canadian government also does mandatory random criminal history checks that are generated randomly by computer…this works out to them checking 2% of all border crossings. So unless you are suspicious…if you cross 100x you will get checked 2x. That’s probably how the band crossed so many times with no issues.

Once you are caught you will be denied entry…no discretion there. You will also be flagged for future entry. The band members will most likely now be flagged/checked every time they cross now even if the “rehabilitate” themselves per Canadian law.

T
 
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