I'm wondering about the border crossing permit for Canada.

Does last year's roll over to the next?

Can you just renew it and not have to resend all the documentation or is every year a whole new process?

Thanks for the information. Got our plan together to go up around Agnes lake this time.

RABCs are valid for one year from the date of issue. I just got mine and it says good from 6 January 2024 to 6 January 2025. If you have one from last June, it's good until this June. There is no renewal and they do not roll over - you have to submit the entire application each time.

That said, you can apply by email - possibly the ONE good thing that came out of the pandemic. They turned mine around and emailed the electronic copy back in four days. I don't suggest waiting until they get busy and flooded with applications, though. See the CBSA website for details.

Good luck on your Agnes route.

pd

+1 on getting done now!

I sent my application in on the 7th and received the permit on the 10th.

X2, send the application as soon as possible for fast turnaround. We waited too long last year and had a lot of anxiety in the week leading up to our trip!

Had to renew our passports. Waiting on those and will send mine and my sons in as soon as we get them back. He’s 19 now so we each have to get one. Definitely don’t wait get it submitted.

Ryan

I submitted the application and passport photocopy via email on 12/27, permit received by email on 01/01. Super easy process.

FYI below is automatic email response you receive upon email submission.

—————————

******************We received your email. Do Not Reply to this email*********************

We process Remote Area Border Crossing applications on a first come first serve basis; there is no way to expedite your permit.

If you require a permit in less than 4-6 weeks you must make an appointment at a Port Of Entry. For more information visit Remote Area Border Crossing Program (cbsa-asfc.gc.ca)

We are unable to check on the status of your application, please allow 4-6 weeks for processing.

If there are any documents missing or issues with your application your email will be deleted and you will receive a rejection notice with instructions to resubmit all required documents and completed application, we will not hold onto to incomplete applications.

Thanks All,
That's what I thought. I'm going in August but I'll get it now. I got my last one in March last year and I think it only took about a week. Better to get it early though.
Now, tell me about tripping around Agnes..... or that's probably another thread!

plander: " I submitted the application and passport photocopy via email on 12/27, permit received by email on 01/01. Super easy process.


FYI below is automatic email response you receive upon email submission.


—————————


******************We received your email. Do Not Reply to this email*********************

We process Remote Area Border Crossing applications on a first come first serve basis; there is no way to expedite your permit.

If you require a permit in less than 4-6 weeks you must make an appointment at a Port Of Entry. For more information visit Remote Area Border Crossing Program (cbsa-asfc.gc.ca)

We are unable to check on the status of your application, please allow 4-6 weeks for processing.

If there are any documents missing or issues with your application your email will be deleted and you will receive a rejection notice with instructions to resubmit all required documents and completed application, we will not hold onto to incomplete applications.

"

That’s really nice, and I think that communication is new this year. In the past it was just submit and wait and cross your fingers that the application was received, no confirmation at all. Which led to lots of folks calling to check the status of their application, which led to lots of grumpy OMR staff. Communication is a beautiful thing.

moosedoggie: "+1 on getting done now!


I sent my application in on the 7th and received the permit on the 10th. "

Thanks to everyone pushing the "do it now" idea. I sent my RABC application yesterday afternoon at 3:18 PM EST, and received my permit today at 3:01 PM. Wow, 24-hour turnaround!

TZ

So far, the hardest part has been to download the application form. Tried downloading with Microsoft Edge, then Google Chrome. Form said I need an Adobe update. Downloaded Adobe (already had it). Wouldn't open document. Downloaded again. Did a left-handed, end-around, reverse document opening pirouette that opened the form. Recalling last year's debacle with sending blank forms back to Canada (twice), I filled-in the form, did a screen-shot, and saved it as a Word document.

Wish me luck! (I still have the secret Emergency RABC permit phone number which did the trick last year with less than a day to spare!)

bobbernumber3: "So far, the hardest part has been to download the application form. Tried downloading with Microsoft Edge, then Google Chrome. Form said I need an Adobe update. Downloaded Adobe (already had it). Wouldn't open document. Downloaded again. Did a left-handed, end-around, reverse document opening pirouette that opened the form. Recalling last year's debacle with sending blank forms back to Canada (twice), I filled-in the form, did a screen-shot, and saved it as a Word document.

Wish me luck! (I still have the secret Emergency RABC permit phone number which did the trick last year with less than a day to spare!)"

Try the link below.

https://www.piragis.com/images/RABC.pdf

plander: Try the link below.

https://www.piragis.com/images/RABC.pdf "

That does seem to be the quickest and easiest. I hesitated filling it out the other day as the footer says 'BSF386 E (22),' which appears to indicate the year 2022, and I wondered if there might be a newer version out there.

schweady: "

plander: Try the link below.


https://www.piragis.com/images/RABC.pdf "

That does seem to be the quickest and easiest. I hesitated filling it out the other day as the footer says 'BSF386 E (22),' which appears to indicate the year 2022, and I wondered if there might be a newer version out there.
"

Hey, Schweady--when I clicked on the PDF button here, I got (and continue to get) some BS about needing Adobe Reader 8 or higher, which I already have. When I clicked the PDF button a second time, TWO pdf files opened, both of which are designated BSF386E-23. I went back in and discovered that with EVERY click on the PDF button, the only "download" that appears is the reminder that one needs an updated version of Adobe. So, ignore the "download", but look on your toolbar for a new icon of the Adobe swirl pattern--that's the newer form.

TZ

I had the same issue. I ended up having to right click on the downloaded file and then select “open with” and then choose Acrobat. It then opened up for me.

No Acrobat here and no way that I'm cluttering my iMac with a 3rd party reader for this when every other pdf in the world can be opened just fine. I'll submit the Piragis file and see if it works.

schweady: "

plander: Try the link below.

https://www.piragis.com/images/RABC.pdf "

That does seem to be the quickest and easiest. I hesitated filling it out the other day as the footer says 'BSF386 E (22),' which appears to indicate the year 2022, and I wondered if there might be a newer version out there."

Worked for me. I used that exact form for a 12/27/2023 email submission. I received the RABC on 1/1/2024 via email.

portagedog09: "RABCs are valid for one year from the date of issue. I just got mine and it says good from 6 January 2024 to 6 January 2025. If you have one from last June, it's good until this June. There is no renewal and they do not roll over - you have to submit the entire application each time.

That said, you can apply by email - possibly the ONE good thing that came out of the pandemic. They turned mine around and emailed the electronic copy back in four days. I don't suggest waiting until they get busy and flooded with applications, though. See the CBSA website for details.

Good luck on your Agnes route.

pd"

I'll say it again with more emphasis this time. Submitting personally identifiable information (PII) such as your passport via email is just asking for identity theft to occur sooner or later. Email travels in the clear through multiple servers, some more secure than others, before it arrives at its destination. If you don't think nefarious actors are electronically sifting through email servers, you're being naive.

As long as you've got time, the safest option is to get it in person if you're close to a border station. The next-safest option is to submit via postal mail.

pcallies, sometimes I'm more than happy to be naive. :) However, your statement about nefarious ne'er do-wells stealing personal information by hacking gives me pause to think about the RABC process.

Can you elaborate on why you're so firm in your thoughts about identity theft? Were you a victim of hacking? Do you work in IT in some regard? Sometimes when people say what you said, it's because they're paranoid by nature which doesn't necessarily offer support for their position. But, if you come from the computer and IT world and have dealt with hackers and other computer risks at your company, etc., it means more.

I would like to see the RABC program work well and, more importantly, safely. Emailing is so much faster and efficient than snail mail, but if the risk out-weighs the reward, one shouldn't use that method.

I retired after working in the tech industry for 30 years.

-Peter

I'm in the tech industry. People are generally far too trusting when giving up their personal information. Don't trust anything on the internet and don't trust any email you receive.

When people get hacked or scammed it's usually because the gave someone the information freely.

Tom

tumblehome: "I'm in the tech industry. People are generally far too trusting when giving up their personal information. Don't trust anything on the internet and don't trust any email you receive.

When people get hacked or scammed it's usually because the gave someone the information freely.

Tom"

Perhaps they could add it as a feature on the ArriveCan app. But since that scrawny little app that could have been conceived for half a million dollars actually cost Canadian taxpayers in excess of $50,000,000, as a Canadian taxpayer, I'm of the opinion the status quo is fine.

Argo:
Perhaps they could add it as a feature on the ArriveCan app. But since that scrawny little app that could have been conceived for half a million dollars actually cost Canadian taxpayers in excess of $50,000,000, as a Canadian taxpayer, I'm of the opinion the status quo is fine."

$50M?!? Wow!

Respectfully, Argo, the status quo leaves the “customers” of the Canadian government open to identity theft and the government itself in the position to enable identity theft.

While it’s less convenient, the CBSA should remove the email submission option. If it isn’t affordable to create a “simple” secure document submission system online, the CBSA should go back to only accepting applications in person or by post.

pcallies: "

Argo:
Perhaps they could add it as a feature on the ArriveCan app. But since that scrawny little app that could have been conceived for half a million dollars actually cost Canadian taxpayers in excess of $50,000,000, as a Canadian taxpayer, I'm of the opinion the status quo is fine."

$50M?!? Wow!


Respectfully, Argo, the status quo leaves the “customers” of the Canadian government open to identity theft and the government itself in the position to enable identity theft.


While it’s less convenient, the CBSA should remove the email submission option. If it isn’t affordable to create a “simple” secure document submission system online, the CBSA should go back to only accepting applications in person or by post. "

I don't dispute your sage advice. The status quo does permit the latter two options. The individual can assess his or her own risks when applying.

At a minimum there should be a disclaimer to the applicant about the risks of using email to process an application.

Irregardless of paranoia concerning methodology and the risk of someone stealing your passport the off season process is swift. Applied Monday, received Thursday.

Also got notice that I'm in custody in Azerbaijan .

Another way of thinking about this.

Would you log into your financial system and provide your most personal information of the new site didn’t use https:?

I got mine back in a day. We didn’t get my sons back yet though. He’s 19 so I emailed them separately but within minutes of each other.

Ryan

As far as security, I keep reading sending checks by mail is asking for trouble. Don't know how to consider mail vs email.

On the in person, is that possible at any CBSA station? I'm only 20 minutes from a border crossing. That would be easy.

Got mine by email the next day. My daughter and son in law 3 days.

billconner: "As far as security, I keep reading sending checks by mail is asking for trouble. Don't know how to consider mail vs email.


On the in person, is that possible at any CBSA station? I'm only 20 minutes from a border crossing. That would be easy."

From the CBSA RABC website (just do an internet search for “CBSA rabc”):
In person
If you are unable to email your application, you may present a copy of your application form (BSF386) and supporting documentation in person to a Border Services Officer at one of the following Canada Border Services Agency offices:

Pigeon River Port of Entry
Monday to Wednesday, 8 am to 8 pm
Note Walk-ins are available, clients are not required to make an appointment.

Sault Ste. Marie Port of Entry
Tuesday and Wednesday, 8 am to 8 pm
Call 705-941-3044 to make an appointment (availability is limited).

Fort Frances Port of Entry
Monday through Sunday, 24 hours
Note Walk-ins are available, clients are not required to make an appointment.

oh well. would have been nice.

Emailed mine. Got a response re receiving the application in 24 hours. Got an email with my RABC 3 days after that. Have yet to see signs of anyone using my credit card or traveling on my passport...

Hoping to go up to Sand Point Lake soon after ice-out (April this year??) to help my buddy open his cabin; customs at Government Island doesn't open until mid-May (in a good year).

One of the things I noticed on the latest (2023) version of the application form is that they no longer ask you the expected dates of your crossing. Just found that interesting.

Filed the applications for my dad and I today. Couple months ahead of last year so I feel much better.

thegildedgopher: "One of the things I noticed on the latest (2023) version of the application form is that they no longer ask you the expected dates of your crossing. Just found that interesting.


Filed the applications for my dad and I today. Couple months ahead of last year so I feel much better."

I used the Piragis form which I assume is a 2022 form. It asked for a "Date permit required," for which I entered an arbitrary 'April 1 2024.' Seemed to have no effect on the process or on the dates printed on the final RABC as it arrived.

You’re right, the date field on then2022 form was “need by” and not date of trip. No date field on the 2023 form at all.

I filed 2 applications for our group on Monday, received one yesterday and one today—- so they are at 3-4 days right now. My dad’s address came back incorrect last year but when I called to fix it they said don’t bother, it doesn’t matter. Same error on this year’s doc so I guess they just have it incorrectly entered in their database.

I’m glad to have it all sorted out early this year for sure!

Under primary documents required with a birth certificate it also mentions additional vax requirements info needs to be provided. Is that still true? This will be our first trip since 2019. I don't have a passport.

Wallidave: "Under primary documents required with a birth certificate it also mentions additional vax requirements info needs to be provided. Is that still true? This will be our first trip since 2019. I don't have a passport.


"

I don't see vax requirements on the website currently. Is your screen snip from an old version of the form? Here's a link to the current requirements: RABC Identity Documents Needed

EmmaMorgan: "

Wallidave: "Under primary documents required with a birth certificate it also mentions additional vax requirements info needs to be provided. Is that still true? This will be our first trip since 2019. I don't have a passport.



"

I don't see vax requirements on the website currently. Is your screen snip from an old version of the form? Here's a link to the current requirements: RABC Identity Documents Needed "

Sorry, here is the link: RABC Identity Documents Needed

EmmaMorgan: "

EmmaMorgan: "

Wallidave: "Under primary documents required with a birth certificate it also mentions additional vax requirements info needs to be provided. Is that still true? This will be our first trip since 2019. I don't have a passport.



"

I don't see vax requirements on the website currently. Is your screen snip from an old version of the form? Here's a link to the current requirements: RABC Identity Documents Needed "

Sorry, here is the link: RABC Identity Documents Needed "

Thank you, my snip was from links provided earlier in this thread.

Wallidave: "...also mentions additional vax requirements info needs to be provided. Is that still true? This will be our first trip since 2019. I don't have a passport..."

Nope. Also, start your passport application process ASAP.

Wallidave: "Under primary documents required with a birth certificate it also mentions additional vax requirements info needs to be provided. Is that still true? This will be our first trip since 2019. I don't have a passport.


"

A passport or and enhanced driver's license (not the same as a real id) is required in order to re-enter the USA

Banksiana: "

Wallidave: "Under primary documents required with a birth certificate it also mentions additional vax requirements info needs to be provided. Is that still true? This will be our first trip since 2019. I don't have a passport.



"

A passport or and enhanced driver's license (not the same as a real id) is required in order to re-enter the USA"

We haven't been to Quetico since 2019. Where am I required to show my passport in order to re-enter the USA these days and how is it enforced? TIA.

Wallidave: "

Banksiana: "

Wallidave: "Under primary documents required with a birth certificate it also mentions additional vax requirements info needs to be provided. Is that still true? This will be our first trip since 2019. I don't have a passport.



"

A passport or and enhanced driver's license (not the same as a real id) is required in order to re-enter the USA"

We haven't been to Quetico since 2019. Where am I required to show my passport in order to re-enter the USA these days and how is it enforced? TIA."

Check-in is done on kiosk (iPad at outfitter) or via phone app. Passport or enhanced DL # required for check in. After checking in a Homeland Security officer approves or gets on the phone with you for direct query. After checking in you get a confirmation and are free to go. Part of the permit process for Quetico is an acknowledgment of the sharing of information.

For day trips where we are just crossing the line on a lake to fish, like Gunflint, north, saganaga, we no longer bother to check back in with US customs upon return. It’s technically illegal but we take our chances. They have no idea we were over there anyway so I fail to see the point.

For one trip we stay at a resort on the Canadian side just across the border and they handle the check in for us on their iPad right on the dock just before we leave. We just give them our passports and they do everything.

Banksiana: "Check-in is done on kiosk (iPad at outfitter) or via phone app. Passport or enhanced DL # required for check in. After checking in a Homeland Security officer approves or gets on the phone with you for direct query. After checking in you get a confirmation and are free to go. Part of the permit process for Quetico is an acknowledgment of the sharing of information."

Where have you seen that the Ontario Provincial Park (OPP) system is sharing information with the Canadian BSA or the American CBP? I thought maybe I had missed that so I just stepped through the reservation process (up to the point where I would have confirmed the reservation) and didn't see anything. If anything, it seems like the rangers have gone out of their way not to look at my RABC when I've pulled it out - like they want to make it clear that they're not in cahoots with immigration and customs.

As an aside, I had a bad experience with US CBP last year. I made the honest mistake of forgetting to check in on the Roam app until evening when I got to Duluth. An agent called me and read me the riot act -- so much for trying to do the right thing. He said he could require me to report to the Pigeon River or IFalls CBP office immediately, but he'd let me off with a warning and put a note in my profile. I bit my tongue, politely apologized about five times, and said thank you.

I'm under the impression that they don't even know I've left the country so my willingness to actually report reentry should be welcome. I understand that I am required to report as soon as I can (not as soon as is convenient) and they have a job to do, but my goodness, I've been in the middle of nowhere for a week or more and I'm voluntarily reporting my whereabouts.

-Peter

Based on some reading courtesy of Google, the US and Canada share rather large volumes of information on people crossing the border. Sooo, if a customs agent wants to know more about your stay in their neighboring country, that information is available to them.

Not saying what anyone should do but I've always been one to play by the rules just to keep myself out of trouble.
Tom

pcallies: "

Banksiana: "Check-in is done on kiosk (iPad at outfitter) or via phone app. Passport or enhanced DL # required for check in. After checking in a Homeland Security officer approves or gets on the phone with you for direct query. After checking in you get a confirmation and are free to go. Part of the permit process for Quetico is an acknowledgment of the sharing of information."

Where have you seen that the Ontario Provincial Park (OPP) system is sharing information with the Canadian BSA or the American CBP? I thought maybe I had missed that so I just stepped through the reservation process (up to the point where I would have confirmed the reservation) and didn't see anything. If anything, it seems like the rangers have gone out of their way not to look at my RABC when I've pulled it out - like they want to make it clear that they're not in cahoots with immigration and customs.


As an aside, I had a bad experience with US CBP last year. I made the honest mistake of forgetting to check in on the Roam app until evening when I got to Duluth. An agent called me and read me the riot act -- so much for trying to do the right thing. He said he could require me to report to the Pigeon River or IFalls CBP office immediately, but he'd let me off with a warning and put a note in my profile. I bit my tongue, politely apologized about five times, and said thank you.


I'm under the impression that they don't even know I've left the country so my willingness to actually report reentry should be welcome. I understand that I am required to report as soon as I can (not as soon as is convenient) and they have a job to do, but my goodness, I've been in the middle of nowhere for a week or more and I'm voluntarily reporting my whereabouts.


-Peter"

I have also "failed to report in a timely fashion" and had the CBP officer tell me "they could make me report to international falls". As for the sharing of information... when you check in at the ranger station at Prairie Portage part of the process involves you acknowledging that "your information may be shared across government agencies", this is new since the COVID border closure. As another note if you cross frequently (I took six trips last year) and use the phone app they rarely never talk to you (not once last season).

Anyone have recent data on RABC turnaround times?

I had to wait to apply (waiting on new US Passport) and sent in the info 15 days ago, which was acknowledged.

Was thinking I would have it by now, but no love.

This isn’t super recent, but I applied for mine on 2/22 and received it on 3/10.

EmmaMorgan: "This isn’t super recent, but I applied for mine on 2/22 and received it on 3/10. "

That is about my timeframe too. Sent it in at the end of February and got it around Mid-march. I ended up mailing in my application and receiving an emailed permit.

Thanks all - I shall try to be be patient!

Just a data point for folks - got my RABC permit today (Friday April 19).

Applied by email Monday March 25... so basically four work weeks.

Adding to the list of turnaround times. A guy in my group waited to submit his until April 4th and just got it back today (April 25). Right at 3 calendar weeks.

If anyone else has more recent info, would be appreciated. I just had a guy late add-on to our trip and submitted his today. Going to be cutting it super close as our trip is end of May. fingers crossed

I submitted on 3/30 and still waiting on mine. They process the payment 10 days ago roughly so would imagine I’ll receive early next week.

Walter Slayer: "I submitted on 3/30 and still waiting on mine. They process the payment 10 days ago roughly so would imagine I’ll receive early next week."

Just got it in the mail so 3-4 weeks