The last few years I've felt a key piece of kit was missing from my closet for Fall hiking and camping, as well as a Winter layer that ISN'T fleece or down, and has some amount of wind-cutting capability. Most usage would be in BWCA or surrounding area, Fall and Winter. Fall most likely as an outer layer just hanging around camp, and in Winter most likely as a midlayer while hanging around camp.

Looked at pretty much everything in this category but keep coming back to these two. Packability is really important during non-use since fleece is super bulky for backpacking. Durability also important (worried about that Micro Puff a little). I know some folks have good luck with these for active mid-layers when it's really really cold out, but it's probably subjective. It would be nice to fit it under a LRB anorak though if it gets real gnarly.

Anyone have both? Other recommendations to check out? I should mention that I'm considering only hoodless options.

I'm not bringing anything with "puff" on it. With 16 men up there I would never hear the end of it

ockycamper: "I'm not bringing anything with "puff" on it. With 16 men up there I would never hear the end of it"

That's not helpful, but would you care to elaborate?

I've got jackets from Columbia and Outdoor Research. One or the other comes on every backpacking/canoeing trip with me. They both pack down small and have spent considerable time stuffed into my backpack/canoe pack with no issues. I know Patagonia can be expensive, Columbia seems to be a little cheaper and I bought the OR jacket off of steepandcheep.com heavily discounted.

Look up Alpha Direct items. Needs a wind layer combo, but a nice insulator.

I know Dan at Timmermade. He's made a handful of items for me. Sleeping bags, puffy jacket, and pants. He knows his stuff and bases all of this options around moisture management. www.timmermade.com

THEGrandRapids: "Look up Alpha Direct items. Needs a wind layer combo, but a nice insulator.


I know Dan at Timmermade. He's made a handful of items for me. Sleeping bags, puffy jacket, and pants. He knows his stuff and bases all of this options around moisture management. www.timmermade.com"

I actually think I'm getting of his hoodies anyway to add to my collection but he has a 12 week lead time and I wanted something I can wear this fall on a couple backpacking trips. His jackets though are down, and I have a beloved Fitz Roy that's near and dear to me that has me covered for down and I have a good wind layer.

Senchi Designs alpha Hoodie and and a Patagonia Houdini

Eddie Bauer has a similar system. Super Sevens i believe is the name.

kenpark23: "Senchi Designs alpha Hoodie and and a Patagonia Houdini


Eddie Bauer has a similar system. Super Sevens i believe is the name. "

Just looking for a single layer garment, or a standalone garment rather. I have quite a few fleeces and a couple windbreakers.

Go to youtube channel of Adventures with the Marine. He does a lot of hiking and canoeing. He has 3 videos about jackets in last 10 months. See if those might help you.

AlexanderSupertramp: "

ockycamper: "I'm not bringing anything with "puff" on it. With 16 men up there I would never hear the end of it"

That's not helpful, but would you care to elaborate?"

Guess marshmallow puff is not on the menu, nor pasties as some are made with puff pastry. Most of all, don't puff on the fire to get it going. Also, don't puff up your sleeping pad. Last but not least, the song Puff the Magic Dragon is banned.

Regarding the Nano vs. Micro Puff, I recommend getting the one that has the better abrasion resistance. And be carefull around a sparking fire, I have noticed these puffy coats easily get wear and tear (branches) or spark holes.

I have been using ones from Eddie Bauer becaues they seem a bit more wear/tear ready. But I still pack some tenacious tape for the inevitable puncture.

Minnesotian: "

AlexanderSupertramp: "

ockycamper: "I'm not bringing anything with "puff" on it. With 16 men up there I would never hear the end of it"

That's not helpful, but would you care to elaborate?"

Guess marshmallow puff is not on the menu, nor pasties as some are made with puff pastry. Most of all, don't puff on the fire to get it going. Also, don't puff up your sleeping pad. Last but not least, the song Puff the Magic Dragon is banned.


Regarding the Nano vs. Micro Puff, I recommend getting the one that has the better abrasion resistance. And be carefull around a sparking fire, I have noticed these puffy coats easily get wear and tear (branches) or spark holes.


I have been using ones from Eddie Bauer becaues they seem a bit more wear/tear ready. But I still pack some tenacious tape for the inevitable puncture. "

Solid info! haha

So I have wasted (well not wasted) my entire day researching all the options yet again instead of working. I think I have watched every YouTube video and read every hiker blog going back at least 5 years, and have ultimately decided on the Nano Puff for the extra durability, AND they're on sale right now. The micro simply isn't light enough or tough enough to justify the 2oz savings. The only question now, is which color? The Pufferfish Gold or the Subtidal Blue... Hmmmm.

I just ordered a Rab Xenair vest, haven't had a chance to test it in the cold yet but I know they make a "Xenair Light" jacket, with or without a hood.

Count me as "puff positive", in all varied forms and glory.

EDIT: when I posted an hour or so ago, I mixed up what i had. I have the MICRO. I’ve corrected below now.

Ihave both the Patagonia down sweater and the Micro Puff hooded, and love them both. I started with the down sweater (found it on clearance) and loved it. Nice warmth and super packable and light. I bring on most all summer canoe trips for those chilly mornings. Then a few years back there was a BW rescue story of a guy who went on a fall solo and got hypothermic in a storm. Rescuers found him in camp wearing a soaked down jacket. Thats when I started looking at the puff lines.

The micro is only slightly heavier, I think 4.5 oz more than the sweater but adds a lot more warmth with a hood, being longer (below the waist), and I think more insulation. I think I recall looking at the nano and thought it seems too light. I bring it on fall or spring canoe trips, and use it literally all winter long - usually under my Wintergreen anorak. I have also worn it under my home made version of a LRB anorak, but usually that is too much. I brought the micro and a light weight wool LRB (home made) as my warmth and safety combo when I went to Wabakimi for 3 weeks in the fall.

I don't think any of the puff type lines are great as an outer layer if you are bushwacking through the alders, but I do have a pair of Mountain Hardware puff type pants, re-enforced with Taslin on the knees and butt, and I've worn those as outer layers working at dog sled races several times. I was worried they would get all ripped up, but so far not a scratch and I have not been kind to them.

If you need an exact weight or want to see it stuffed in a sack next to a Nalgene let me know. The Micro Puff quickly became one of my favorites.

I just wear wool. I have this wool shirt that does a great job of packing small and is very warm. I also have a wool blend set of long underwear. With that top, a mid layer and wool shirt, I can be outside in the snow without any issues. It's a common outfit of mine for walking the dog in the winter.

Jaywalker: "EDIT: when I posted an hour or so ago, I mixed up what i had. I have the MICRO. I’ve corrected below now.

Ihave both the Patagonia down sweater and the Micro Puff hooded, and love them both. I started with the down sweater (found it on clearance) and loved it. Nice warmth and super packable and light. I bring on most all summer canoe trips for those chilly mornings. Then a few years back there was a BW rescue story of a guy who went on a fall solo and got hypothermic in a storm. Rescuers found him in camp wearing a soaked down jacket. Thats when I started looking at the puff lines.


The micro is only slightly heavier, I think 4.5 oz more than the sweater but adds a lot more warmth with a hood, being longer (below the waist), and I think more insulation. I think I recall looking at the nano and thought it seems too light. I bring it on fall or spring canoe trips, and use it literally all winter long - usually under my Wintergreen anorak. I have also worn it under my home made version of a LRB anorak, but usually that is too much. I brought the micro and a light weight wool LRB (home made) as my warmth and safety combo when I went to Wabakimi for 3 weeks in the fall.


I don't think any of the puff type lines are great as an outer layer if you are bushwacking through the alders, but I do have a pair of Mountain Hardware puff type pants, re-enforced with Taslin on the knees and butt, and I've worn those as outer layers working at dog sled races several times. I was worried they would get all ripped up, but so far not a scratch and I have not been kind to them.


If you need an exact weight or want to see it stuffed in a sack next to a Nalgene let me know. The Micro Puff quickly became one of my favorites. "

Well now you got me second guessing before I click "checkout" in my cart! So have you had any issues with durability or snags on the Micro? I'm not planning on doing any bushwhacking with it, but I dont want to worry about shoving it into my pack on a hike if I get warm, or tossing it around in the truck, sitting or leaning on rocks, trees, etc. I would expect some basic durability from it for things that folks might do here in the Northwoods. I ruled out down for shoulder seasons for the reasons you outlined above. But my Fitz Roy for winter dog walks or bumming around the yard is 20D shell and even that feels fragile.

I have a nano puff jacket and vest and think they are great pieces. Light weight, packable, and great for layering. No complaints!

You should look really hard at the Enlighten Equipment Torrid Jacket

Blatz: "You should look really hard at the Enlighten Equipment Torrid Jacket"

I did, but their hoodless option is considered "custom" with a 5 week lead time and I'm not really sure I can live with the hood. And you can only get 7D or 10D for in stock items, 20D is also considered custom which is probably what I would opt for.

My other issue is their warranty doesn't come close to Patagonia. Patagonia stands behind their stuff a lot more and will fix/repair free of charge forever, no questions asked. Just have to pay postage.

AlexanderSupertramp: "
Well now you got me second guessing before I click "checkout" in my cart! So have you had any issues with durability or snags on the Micro? I'm not planning on doing any bushwhacking with it, but I dont want to worry about shoving it into my pack on a hike if I get warm, or tossing it around in the truck, sitting or leaning on rocks, trees, etc. I would expect some basic durability from it for things that folks might do here in the Northwoods. I ruled out down for shoulder seasons for the reasons you outlined above. But my Fitz Roy for winter dog walks or bumming around the yard is 20D shell and even that feels fragile. "

I’ve had my Micro for about 4 years and have had no durability issues so far. I use the jacket a lot more than I thought I would too. Aside from canoe or camping trips and working at dog sled races, it’s my most commonly grabbed “run to store” or “take the dog out (5-6 times per day) jacket. I can’t say I’ve been really hard on it, but I’ve never treated it delicately either. The only place I’m super careful is in my hot tent, as even a quick glance against the hot stove would be very bad - but that’s true for any synthetic including my sleeping bags. But it has been used a bunch and no issues. As temps drop or winds pick up, or if bushwhacking or doing hard core stuff, my Wintergreen anorak goes over it. I have been seriosuly hard on the Wintergreen anorak for 12+ years and have no tears - just a couple loose seams that needed mending.

You mentioned you want no hood, and certainly that’s your choice. I will point out that the hood does add a lot of warmth for its size and weight. Even when the hood is down but the zipper is all the way up, it provides a fair amount or warmth and wind protection for the back of my head.

Jaywalker: "

AlexanderSupertramp: "
Well now you got me second guessing before I click "checkout" in my cart! So have you had any issues with durability or snags on the Micro? I'm not planning on doing any bushwhacking with it, but I dont want to worry about shoving it into my pack on a hike if I get warm, or tossing it around in the truck, sitting or leaning on rocks, trees, etc. I would expect some basic durability from it for things that folks might do here in the Northwoods. I ruled out down for shoulder seasons for the reasons you outlined above. But my Fitz Roy for winter dog walks or bumming around the yard is 20D shell and even that feels fragile. "

I’ve had my Micro for about 4 years and have had no durability issues so far. I use the jacket a lot more than I thought I would too. Aside from canoe or camping trips and working at dog sled races, it’s my most commonly grabbed “run to store” or “take the dog out (5-6 times per day) jacket. I can’t say I’ve been really hard on it, but I’ve never treated it delicately either. The only place I’m super careful is in my hot tent, as even a quick glance against the hot stove would be very bad - but that’s true for any synthetic including my sleeping bags. But it has been used a bunch and no issues. As temps drop or winds pick up, or if bushwhacking or doing hard core stuff, my Wintergreen anorak goes over it. I have been seriosuly hard on the Wintergreen anorak for 12+ years and have no tears - just a couple loose seams that needed mending.


You mentioned you want no hood, and certainly that’s your choice. I will point out that the hood does add a lot of warmth for its size and weight. Even when the hood is down but the zipper is all the way up, it provides a fair amount or warmth and wind protection for the back of my head. "

I could be swayed to get a hood. I am generally a hat-only guy because of layering, hoods get all jumbled up back there and it can be annoying. A usage case for the hood that I could see for me is in the sleeping bag when it's cold. I plan on wearing this as sleep layer when temps call for it,. The hood would probably provide more warmth than a hat and not move around as much.

AlexanderSupertramp: "

Jaywalker: "
You mentioned you want no hood, and certainly that’s your choice. I will point out that the hood does add a lot of warmth for its size and weight. Even when the hood is down but the zipper is all the way up, it provides a fair amount or warmth and wind protection for the back of my head. "

I could be swayed to get a hood. I am generally a hat-only guy because of layering, hoods get all jumbled up back there and it can be annoying. A usage case for the hood that I could see for me is in the sleeping bag when it's cold. I plan on wearing this as sleep layer when temps call for it,. The hood would probably provide more warmth than a hat and not move around as much."

I have to agree with Jaywalker on the hood. My next lightweight puff jacket will have one, especially for eliminating the "cold draft of wind down the back of the neck" issue.

Looks like I'll be looking at the MicroPuff as well.

Minnesotian: "

AlexanderSupertramp: "

Jaywalker: "
You mentioned you want no hood, and certainly that’s your choice. I will point out that the hood does add a lot of warmth for its size and weight. Even when the hood is down but the zipper is all the way up, it provides a fair amount or warmth and wind protection for the back of my head. "

I could be swayed to get a hood. I am generally a hat-only guy because of layering, hoods get all jumbled up back there and it can be annoying. A usage case for the hood that I could see for me is in the sleeping bag when it's cold. I plan on wearing this as sleep layer when temps call for it,. The hood would probably provide more warmth than a hat and not move around as much."

I have to agree with Jaywalker on the hood. My next lightweight puff jacket will have one, especially for eliminating the "cold draft of wind down the back of the neck" issue.


Looks like I'll be looking at the MicroPuff as well. "

I'm gonna go over to Trailfitters here in Duluth today and try them both, including Nano Puff hooded. I'll report back with what I leave the store with. There's no sales on the newest version of the Micropuff anywhere in my size anyway, so I guess I might have to pay full retail if I go that route.

The Patagonia website is showing a 10% off one item if you sign up for their email.

Blatz: "You should look really hard at the Enlighten Equipment Torrid Jacket"

Completely agree! (or an Arcteryx Atom LT - though the EE Torrid is warmer), AND a cheap fleece/flannel to wear over it to protect very fragile fabric in the BWCA. That combo gives a lot of options.

Enlightened Equipment has had Black Friday sales.

The North Face Thermoball ECO insulation is similar to the Patagonia Nano Puff.
I have a ski jacket and ski bib pant made with it. Very warm and they pack down incredibly well.

I’ve had 3 nano puffs. 2 hooded and 1 hood less. I have worn the crap out of them. I live around the BWCA and have worn them from mushing dogs to my day job as a carpenter. And get the hood.

AlexanderSupertramp: "

kenpark23: "Senchi Designs alpha Hoodie and and a Patagonia Houdini



Eddie Bauer has a similar system. Super Sevens i believe is the name. "

Just looking for a single layer garment, or a standalone garment rather. I have quite a few fleeces and a couple windbreakers. "

I think the reason kenpark mentioned the Senchi fleece hoodie is that it is a game changer in terms of cutting down on bulk but keeping the warmth of fleece. Senchi pack incredibly small and seem like they wouldn't even keep a mouse warm but they are amazingly warm.

straighthairedcurly:
I think the reason kenpark mentioned the Senchi fleece hoodie is that it is a game changer in terms of cutting down on bulk but keeping the warmth of fleece. Senchi pack incredibly small and seem like they wouldn't even keep a mouse warm but they are amazingly warm."

They look super packable for sure. If I didn't already have an R1 Air and a Melanzana I would add another lightweight fleece to the mix.

dsmith1979:
Completely agree! (or an Arcteryx Atom LT - though the EE Torrid is warmer), AND a cheap fleece/flannel to wear over it to protect very fragile fabric in the BWCA. That combo gives a lot of options.


Enlightened Equipment has had Black Friday sales."

My worry with the EE is that it might be TOO warm, and only work as an outer layer. Lots of the reviews and videos I have watched agree that it is much more like thick jacket than it is a dual purpose layer. I've never seen one in the wild though to compare. If I custom-ordered one in 20D, I would worry much less about their durability, but all that loose fabric in their seamless design opens up more opportunity for snags.

re: Nano and micro-puff by Patagonia
I have used both since 2014 but the design may have changed since then.
This is in NE Indiana in the Fall/Winter/Spring.
If it's not below about 15-20 degrees i'll use the nano with no hood but will add a stocking cap. (youngsters call this a "beanie" now)
Below 15 and down to about 10 below I go with the Micro puff with hood.
Usually also wear a wool Pendleton shirt with either of the two.
I have never backpacked with those but have taken the nano puff on
canoe tripa in September up on the Boundary Waters.
I do carry a "little" weight around the middle these days so your mileage
may vary.
Larry S

I have them both and neither one is very warm. I do not bring them into BWCA. I bring a lightweight down puffy (MH Ghost Whisperer 2) to wear in camp over an ArcTeryx Atom Hoody which is arguably warmer than either Patagonia piece, even with the stretch panels at the sides. I own two Atoms and virtually live in them three seasons of the year.

To be honest, the construction on both Patagonia pieces is far below the level of ArcTeryx. The Patagonia seams fray.

Hope this helps

AlexanderSupertramp: "The last few years I've felt a key piece of kit was missing from my closet for Fall hiking and camping, as well as a Winter layer that ISN'T fleece or down, and has some amount of wind-cutting capability. Most usage would be in BWCA or surrounding area, Fall and Winter. Fall most likely as an outer layer just hanging around camp, and in Winter most likely as a midlayer while hanging around camp.

Looked at pretty much everything in this category but keep coming back to these two. Packability is really important during non-use since fleece is super bulky for backpacking. Durability also important (worried about that Micro Puff a little). I know some folks have good luck with these for active mid-layers when it's really really cold out, but it's probably subjective. It would be nice to fit it under a LRB anorak though if it gets real gnarly.

Anyone have both? Other recommendations to check out? I should mention that I'm considering only hoodless options. "

Just a note about hoods and puffy jackets - jackets without the hood are considerably warmer when the hood is down. In otherwords, a hooded jacket with the hood down will not keep you as warm as a non-hooded jacket. If you do not see yourself wearing the hood most of the time, you're better off geting a puffer with no hood (the closer fit around the neck with the non-hooded jacket is what causes them to be warmer).

The hooded jacket is warmer when the hood is up, but it is a TON of extra warmth - often too much depending on where you live and what you're using the jacket for. While backpacking or canoe tripping I only use a non-hooded puffy jacket (and ideally synthetic or treated down for canoeing).

A hooded down puffer jacket is nice when stationary in the winter. But when active (when hiking) I find they are too warm, even when snowshowing in the Adirondacks when the temperature is hovering around zero (I use a mountaineering jacket with underarm ventillation when moving in the winter). Being too warm is dangerous as you sweat, ultimately making you colder. Wearing a synthetic or wool base layer, an insulating breathable mid layer (fleece works well here), and a breathable waterproof outer with underarm ventillation is a fantastic way to keep warm when active in cold environments.

Here is a good YouTube video that seems to cover this idea (the items in this video are WAY too expensive, but there are less expensive alternatives): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ogv5_xT6S4

If you camp in the winter or colder parts of the shoulder seasons, then a hooded puffer is fantastic for time in camp.

This thread seems to have run its course, but I do love my Nano Puff. One of the great parts is it tucks into its own pocket so it's easy to pack away, even in a day pack. I bought a Fjallraven Keb Padded Hoodie like 5 years ago and I absolutely love it. I was worried about the durability of the fabric but I've scraped through brush with it several times and it has held up. The insulation doesn't get as trapped as it does in the Nano Puff, but I haven't noticed too many issues with cold spots. I prefer the fit of the Fjallraven a little more, and the hood is amazing when it's actually chilly out. I was hesitant to bring it on a BWCA trip, but the first trip that I did (in the fall), I was so happy to have the hood. Could you be fine with the Nano Puff (w/o hood) and a beanie? Totally. But the way the hood traps heat for your head AND neck is really nice.

Anyone who is skipping a puffy because of the stigma is missing out. :) Just don't get one that makes you look like a marshmallow (the Nano Puff definitely doesn't).

I failed to report back here, but I ended up with the Nano Puff, no hood (as I plan for this to be a mid-layer probably more often than an outer layer). I'm really a hat guy and I'll have a good hood on whatever my outer shell is that day (LRB anorak, ski jacket, or Wintergreen anorak). Found a sweet discontinued color too.

Thanks for all the words of wisdom and insight! If I hate it... watch the marketplace!