New Trip Report posted by CIIcanoe

Trip Name: 21 Day Canoe Trip to the .

Entry Point: Other

Click Here to View Trip Report

OK, so I'm only on day 10 but amazing! The amount of detail and all the pictures is simply incredible. What a trip. Very inspiring. What type of camera were you using? Photos came out very sharp.

wow, only just browsed through it but looks pretty amazing so far. definitely will come back to read more.

Itchy Menace,

I used two cameras. One was a a Nikon D-80 with a 28-70 mm 2.8 lens. The second was an Olympus 770 SW.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to take photos when we cross the rugged stuff (both land and water) or while in the huge waves because we were too busy accomplishing what we needed to do.

Lots of high, fast water on this trip.

Itchy Menace and bradcrc- thanks for taking time to look at the report

Chuck

CIIcanoe.com

That was an awesome trip report! Love the detail and pics.
Were you nervous the canoe would come off the pontoons on the plane?
I bet you made sure it was on there tight?
Anyway, sounds like you had quite the adventure and memories.
SunCatcher

We had a pilot we hadn't used before. He about broke the boat in half cinching it on the struts.

I had no thoughts that the canoe would come off. The pilot and deck hand tie it to the plane. They do it all the time.

Dave made the comment about the pilot cinching it to the struts, then the kevlar making a popping sound that concerned him.

I was just taking in the view from my window. I've flown several times in smaller planes, mostly the Beaver, but last year was the first time in an Otter. I still enjoy each flight.

Yes, I would call it an Adventure!! The area is nothing like the BWCA.

Thanks for taking the time to read the report.

Chuck

Once again and excellent report. Really enjoyed it.

Excellent report and photo's. Great excuse to sit inside and go thru the report instead of shoveling the 15" of snow off the driveway. I have always wanted to do a trip on the Albany river but running fast water is not a skill that I have been able to achieve.

Great trip report Chuck, really enjoyed it.
Hey did you ever get that sled put together from that UHMWPE that we shared?
Brent

Dickb, satchmoa and Cedarboy (Brent)

Thank you for taking the time to read the report. I'm glad you all enjoyed it.

Dick- I thanked you yesterday, but it was on the other thread about this trip.

Satchmoa- I figured you were intriqued with the Albany River. I know you followed the two guys who traveled the Albany in 2006. If I recall his last name was Hupila or something similar and he put up a photo trip report.

Brent-Just about every time I go in my basement I see that sheet, so no I never build a sled. I will one of these days. I bought more camera gear instead of a hot tent and stove.

Chuck

CIIcanoe.com

That was quite an undertaking by you guys. My first observation is that it was really labor intensive. You didn't take one layover and really the only time off was the time looking at pictographs. Was this because of the bad weather delay at the outset?

I'm a little younger than you guys and it amazes me that you could do this amount of work each day. All the sawing on portages and setting up an taking down of camp not to mention that you cooked by fire almost exclusively.

Anyway, the report was wonderful and full of details and great pics. I was wondering how the comraderie between you guys was? You had tripped before but essentially met on the internet only a few years ago. I's tough going with only one other person for a week let alone three. How was the communication?

And is there a report to be done by Jdrocks? Thanks.

i was with chuck for 15 days in wabakimi p.p. in 08, so i didn't see why we couldn't go a few more days. chuck was hard and fast on only one issue...he wanted the stern seat. fine with me, that's where he needed to be. he basically had the boat the whole trip. you can only have one captain out there on the water, so by agreement, he was the one. a good decision, chuck guided the boat through some very tough conditions on that water up there.

another part of the plan that worked out well is that we each had our own tent. at the end of the day we had some individual space. we had each purchased hubba hubba tents well in advance of planning this trip, a coincidence. the tent is perfect for the way we used them, one man tents.

we did have a layover day and a short day on the itinerary sheet but lost the layover day due to slow travel on the river/creek sections. it's difficult to describe the work it took to come through some of that area. the work was a unifying factor. if i was tired, thirsty, or hungry, chuck probably was too. chuck writes that he was tired, but he didn't look that way out on the trail.

i knew chuck would write his trip report. my "report" is my set of hand annotated color maps that i keep for my trip files. chuck and i decided that we would collaborate on this 40 page set and submit it jointly to the wabakimi project for their use. recent first hand information is invaluable to them as both a mapping resource and an indication of where their efforts should be directed. there are numerous errors that need correcting on the available route resources, so our maps should help them out.

...cooking over a fire. i'm not going to haul fuel to cook big meals over a stove for 21 days. we did have a backup stove for wet weather or when it was late, but only used it a few times. besides, i just like cooking over a fire. notice in chuck's photos that we always had that old black coffee pot on the grill. a continuous supply of hot coffee morning and night whenever we were in camp. try that on a stove. our coffee only comes two ways-black or extra black. want a cup? it's always there and always hot. add hot chocolate mix and you have our camp mocha. worth a toast.

i cooked for 21 days. don't skimp on the menu when chuck's along. he eats like he has never seen food before. there wasn't much left when we came out, we might have had enough for one more day, pretty close.

It took a few days to read through and I'm thoroughly impressed with the trip. The pictographs were the highlight for me. Nice way to cap a trip like that off (for me.) My jaw dropped at all the bushwhacking. And just plain stones to run some of those rapids and gauge where takeouts were prior to falls and such.

I completely understand the must-haves on these trips and the fail-safes like cooking on wood. I learned a lot about what I will and won't bring on my next trip to the BW. I think I'm going to ditch the french press and suck it up with Starbucks new coffee singles. Two singles per 12oz coffee should do I hope.

I look forward to reading through the other reports on the blog.

Great read! Reminded me alittle like reading a trip report by Bob O'Hara.

Exo, I'm with you on ditching the french press for the starbucks. I'm also only bringing an esbit stove (in case of emergency) and plan to use wood for cooking. I'm getting fanatical about weight on my next solo. Gonna go light for a change.

the concentration of pictographs on that particular lake was astounding. considered a sacred site to this day by the First Nations, there has been discussion about cutting off access to the lake. i don't know why. it's a tough place to get to, especially from the north, and it sure looked like chuck and i might have been the only ones in there in 09. there's only one campsite on the lake and there was grass growing in the fire ring.

looking for pictographs on that lake was like a treasure hunt. sneaking the canoe along those rock formations and then "Hey, there's one!"

one thing i hope people might notice in chuck's report photos is the way the tag lines are set up bow and stern on the canoe. 25' of 3/8 poly (floating) line that was always coiled from the boat outward, tag end always up and marked (red electrical tape), and secured with a quick release (BDB). the tag end should have a figure eight knot so the line doesn't slip through your hand.

we used these lines for tracking and lining routinely, or tying the boat up, but they're set up for an emergency and saved our butts (and the boat) on the misehkow river when we went for a swim above iron falls.

the canoe had taken a big standing wave, swamped, and sank. i was still upright and paddling with the canoe under water when it finally capsized. the canoe had swapped ends in the rapids and chuck was able to reach up and grab the stern line as he was swept by the boat on the right side heading down stream. i had gone out the left side and was able to reach up and grab the bow line when the boat swung around with the bow now pointing upstream. the lines streamed out as planned and we were both hanging on out at the ends of those lines trying to get the boat under control and swim it out to an eddy.

iron falls was roaring in that high water. look at chuck's photos to see what we nearly got into. the falls is really a chute with about a 40' drop and on that particular day it was one violent piece of river.

get your tag lines set up. you can lose the boat on a windy lake, not just a river.

I had an American Indian friend of mine take a look at the photos of the pictographs as well as your photo of the plastic baggie.

Here is his response:

"The bag contains Sweet Grass, one of the four Indian "smokes". It represents the North direction and is used as a cleansing or purifying smudge. It is woven into a braid because it is called "The Hair of Mother Earth" by native people..The pictographs of canoes usually indicate the male sitting in the front of the canoe followed by children and then wife if it is a family and generally they are depicted as animals of their clans... Thanks for sharing..."

exo, where is your friend located? i'm curious as to how far reaching these particular cultural elements extended. i'm glad we didn't disturb anything. we wouldn't have known it was there, except that we got out of the canoe to get a better look at a grouping of pictographs.

the pictographs we saw seem to depict some of the same mythological beings found at other pictogragh sites pretty far removed from where we were. there were images that looked like the serpent and thunderbird, for example.

there was a partially smudged image that looked like a mammoth, so these pictographs may have been around for awhile. strange that we can't seem to brew up paint that will stay on the side of a house for more than 5 years, yet ancient people could paint on an exposed rock surface and have it last a thousand years or more.

exo, thanks for taking the trouble to investigate. i'm fascinated by these things. does your friend have any thoughts on what is represented in the other pictographs shown in chuck's photos?

This was truly an awesome journey. I can't imagine the work involved in just cutting the portages, let alone the paddling. You have my respect and admiration and, like everyone else, I really appreciate all the effort that went into sharing the trip report with us.

That said, I have to raise a point. I'm not your mom and I think everyone has the right to stick their neck out as far as they like. Running big, flooded rivers is a dangerous business (as you know), but running rivers in such conditions with a single boat, in the wilderness, even for expert paddlers, is almost foolhardy. A slipped rope, a few yards further from shore, and your boat (if not your butt) is going over Iron Falls with no recourse other than the Spot or Iridium phone, which might be lost as well. You guys know this and I'm sure you paddled accordingly and kept your survival gear handy. It certainly added a dimension to the adventure and you made it, so good on ya, but still, for the sake of folks who might follow you, I think your reports need to emphasize that it is very, very risky to do trips like this without a second boat.

you're correct in saying that the risks rise the farther you go into the bush and as conditions deteriorate. we looked at that stretch of water for quite awhile before deciding to run it. it wasn't a spur of the moment decision by any means. i would mark it down as the nature of travel up there. i'd been for a swim twice in one week in 07 and nearly lost a boat and a bow man about 30 miles from there, so it's not something i take lightly.

it seems simple on the surface to just add a boat to a trip like this, but the reality is quite different. very few guys want to go in there anymore. travel through the area probably peaked 30 years ago and it's rare to see another canoe except on the mainstreet routes. you sure don't want a pair of guys along who couldn't prevail in those conditions, either land or water. in a case like that, what is supposed to be an asset becomes a liability. in fact, a big liability. in other words, i wouldn't add a boat just to have two.

willys: Glad you like the report, also

TomT and exo:

I still take my coffee press when I go solo. I like to have good coffee. Although, I’ve never used the singles. I think I would need a lot of them.

exo:

Thanks for the info on the sweet grass. Here is what I found about sweet grass from the Wind Speaker from May 3, 2001.....

Article Excerpt?“The golden, tulip-shaped flowers and vanilla-scented leaves distinguish this two-foot perennial in the wild. It has many names, but most commonly it's referred to as Sweetgrass, a plant used in traditional Aboriginal ceremonies and a plant that many people are beginning to grow at home to harvest.

??Sweetgrass, also known as Holy Grass, Buffalo Grass, Vanilla Grass, and Zebrovka, is one of the four sacred plants, (including cedar, sage and tobacco) and is used as a tool for prayer and purification. Native people believe it is the hair of Mother Earth and is considered a gift from the Creator. ??"It is a wild grass that must be respected and used properly," said Marion Sinclair of the Edmonton Native Healing Centre.

"There are certain protocols that must be done when harvesting Sweetgrass, such as offering tobacco." ??Brad Seneca, executive director of the Bent Arrow Traditional Healing Society and a spiritual advisor from the Anishnawbe First Nation in Ontario, said that although Sweetgrass is found across Canada, it is most predominately used by Native peoples on the Prairies. ??He believes that many people are starting to grow Sweetgrass at home because Sweetgrass fields are no longer in abundance.

??"Through the teachings I have learned by the Elders, I don't see anything wrong with growing or picking Sweetgrass, as long as people recognize and respect the three elements that Sweetgrass represents: mind, body and spirit." ??Certain ceremonies must be observed before the grass is harvested, giving a blessing to the earth and praying to the four directions, the four grandfathers, he said. ??"

If you are taking from the earth, you must then honor the earth," said Seneca. ??Lois Fran, of the Blood First Nation in southern Alberta is a professor of Native Studies at the University of Lethbridge. She said there is much debate about Aboriginal ceremonial practices, in respect to teaching and sharing information with the public. However, she believes many First Nations people have moved into urban centres and have become isolated from their tradition and culture. It becomes difficult for these individuals who want to participate in ceremonies and follow cultural protocol, when they don't' have access to the people who can show them the proper and respectful ways. ?

?For example "many people are not aware that Sweetgrass is to be given as a gift or in an exchange, not to be purchased," said Frank. Although the purchasing of Sweetgrass evokes varied opinions, Seneca said "if someone buys Sweetgrass, they must give it away to replenish and return its power. ??

It is suggested that individuals try and adhere to the customary practices of the communities to which they belong. If people have questions about where to find Sweetgrass in the wild or how to bless and honor the earth before harvesting, many healing and friendship centres across the country can be of help. “

Dave:
Here is the book, Reading Rock Art: Interpreting The Indian Rock Paintings of the Canadian Shield by Grace Rajnovich, that Claire Quewezence, Assistant Park Superintendent with the Woodland Caribou PP, recomended to me. I bought the book after my June solo trip there, but I haven’t had time to read it.

Krusty555:

I’m glad you enjoyed the report. I believe the report speaks for itself that this trip isn’t for everyone. Everyone has different abilities therefore should plan their trips accordingly. We originally posted that we wanted a total of four paddlers, but our deadline came without any takers. Do we not go...no!
CIIcanoe.com
August 2009 Wabakimi Paddlers Wanted

Edit: Krusty555, I needed to edit my link and when I did I deleted some other of my thoughts about the second canoe. Instead of writing it over Dave's explanation will have to do.

Thanks for all the pics. I'm only on day 2.

adventure ahead

Nice trip report guys.
Based on the report you guys did eat well.
How much fresh food did you take. Day 8 you cooked bacon.
What about fresh eggs? Do you take any or are they too much trouble for the risk of breaking them.

we had fresh food for 3-4 days. carried in a dozen eggs, and then used dried eggs. beyond day 4, we had precooked bacon. you need to eat well because you're using up plenty of calories, 5000/day sounds like a good number. that means lots of food and snacks or you're going to feel fatigued all the time. we also made a big effort to stay hydrated and the amount of filtered water we went through each day was pretty unbelievable.

we had big breakfasts and dinners, with a decent high calorie lunch. i was still hungry half the time, while chuck was still hungry all the time.

With regards to the gear and food that you brought, if you could do the trip over would you change anything?

I'm thinking a pair of neoprene socks for those cold and wet days would've been nice. How did the boots hold up btw? And how much coffee DID you bring? :)

we were ok on the gear, although i might bring another barrel next time. it took us all of one short email to shake the gear out. i might tweak the menu a little, but i have a real good system for packaging meals, so i don't need to change that.

we brought a lot of coffee in three different kinds, all divided, repackaged, and vacuum bagged. i think it was somewhere around 200#, kinda in the category of trade goods. chuck is real serious when it comes to his coffee. i drank a bunch myself.

we both had new pairs of OTB boots, although different models. my pair completely fell apart and i sent them back for a refund. chuck had some of the same problems, but i don't know what he did with his.

you need to be careful with non draining neoprene socks on trips like this where your feet are going to be wet for long days. having a wet foot and having water trapped against your foot are completely different situations. i have a trip report from a guy that wore neoprene socks on a trip of the same length and on some of the same route. he got a bacterial infection in his feet, could barely walk for the last three days he was out, and then missed two weeks of work when he got in. don't want that.

You guys don't like to basecamp and picnic do you?

no to the basecamp, but we did have a bunch of picnics.

sukopete, did you find your gear or has it been gone so long you don't recognize it any more? i think chuck had a closeup in his camera, maybe he can post it up to refresh your memory.

Finally finished reading your trip report. WOW! I'm impressed with your dogged determination. I'm sure you are proud of your accomplishment, and you should be.

I saw where you wished you brought a footprint for your tent. A piece of tyvek cut to size works wonders, and it is light in weight.

I saw you had a gravity filter. Did you use any other type? I also saw you had plenty of Nalgene bottles. Did you use a platypus bag as well?

Did you use permetherin for the bugs?

Don't recall seeing a tarp over your cooking area? Did you carry one?

i've used a typar footprint before, free to me because i keep rolls of that stuff out in the shop, but i like the factory footprint better for this tent and used one with my tent on this trip. easier to use in a wind, helps set the tent faster, and can be used to set the tent from under the fly if you're caught in heavy rain. cheap for the msr hubba hubba when bought on sale, i think mine was $24. it has the grommets and cinch buckles on the corners identical to the tent. these msr tents are great and can also be found at a discount. not a drop of water in either tent.

we had two basecamp filters with spare elements for each. we knew we would be filtering a big volume of water. coffee filters on the element help in that dark water. the filter was the first unpacked and the last packed at camp. i started with three liters each day, while chuck had larger bottles, and started with four. it was never enough.

no permetherin for me, and i don't think chuck either. we were in the water so much i don't think it would have lasted if we had sprayed.

we carried a kondos 10x12. you can see it in some of the camp photos, but we didn't set it regularly every day. i carry the tarp neatly folded flat to fit the kondos mesh anchor bag, a convenient way to stow it in the pack. that's sukopete's ridge line holding it up. it was orphaned, so i adopted it and now have custody. the kondos tarps are a great value and well made. that's my last green tarp. the next one will be high viz.

I took a base camp filter on our trip last year, it worked great for about 4 days. I went out to the middle of the lakes to get the water to filter. It was not dirty water. I did not use a coffee filter as a pre-filter thou. I knew I should have brought a spare filter but I didn't.
I will not go again without a spare filter.

How do you attach the coffee filter, with a rubber band? How many times do you change the coffee filter - (daily)? Do you know of any way to rejuvenate the cartridge filter in the field once it starts running slow?
How many days were you able to use the filter before you had to put in the spare filter?

jd and chuck. Monster of a trip....great job and great report.

thanks cowdoc. been looking at some maps and a couple routes north...we might look back on this trip as the easy one.

You guys ROCK! Thanks for sharing your trip with us. The pictures
were amazing and the trip report was fantastic.


Thanks JB./ Mark

Fantastic trip report Chuck!

I notice you wore OTB Odhin boots and said they had wear - how do you like them overall. I'm looking at the Abyss or SARs

chuck did a great job with the report. man, he can do some magic with those cameras.

more discussion on NRS Storms and OTB Odhins in chuck's blog.

CIIcanoe.com


additional thoughts on OTB boots towards the end of the other "21 Day..." thread here-

http://bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=forum.thread&threadId=168673&forumID=12&confID=1

they were on sale for about half off direct from OTB and it looks like a bunch of guys jumped in and bought them when i posted the $70 price here and elsewhere.

Thanks for a great report. I read it in pieces throughout the past few days at work, on my "downtime." Then, yesterday evening after having read through about 13 days, I happened to catch half of a "Man vs. Wild" episode on TV. I had to laugh, comparing his "wild" adventure to yours! --Goose

quote jdrocks: "chuck did a great job with the report. man, he can do some magic with those cameras.


more discussion on NRS Storms and OTB Odhins in chuck's blog.

CIIcanoe.com



additional thoughts on OTB boots towards the end of the other "21 Day..." thread here-


http://bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=forum.thread&threadId=168673&forumID=12&confID=1


they were on sale for about half off direct from OTB and it looks like a bunch of guys jumped in and bought them when i posted the $70 price here and elsewhere."

Thanks JDrocks.

I guess I was sleeping' when they went on sale.

bad news for me, but good news for you. now they're only $60. green only, but who cares about the color.

direct from the manufacturer-otbboots.com

Wow!
I just got a pair of SAR's in black $49.95 and Odhins in Green for $59.95

The Abyss is on sale in green for $49.95 and the SARs in green for $39.95

must be closeout time on old stock!

Will look at the The storms and their wet workboot too - (half the price of the storms)

Thanks for your trip report and the heads up!

I've got 4 group trips and a 12 day solo coming up this year and so will put them through some paces.

the new redesigned Storm is reported to be non draining and more closely resemble the work boot construction, although i haven't seen it in person. not good.

i have seen and tried on the NRS workboot. junk, you don't want those unless you could buy them for $20/pr.

Thanks JD - glad to have your experience and knowledge about those boots.
The price seemed a little low for what they purported to do, performance wise.

It's a wonder the storms are redesigning that much when it sounded liek all they needed was better stitching?

the NRS Storm was (still is) a glued together boot. the design and materials of the old Storm made it the absolute premier wetfooter, but unfortunately, they would not stay together. warm, well drained, and the best heavy lugged and grippy sole available.

the OTB boots are not in the same league design wise, but seem a little more durable and are a very good value at these sale prices.

the OTB is a stitch together boot. if they had both stitched and glued, it would have increased durability 100%. i see some guys carefully applying a penetrating epoxy to the stitching at all the expected wear points. i might try that myself, i'm real tough on footwear.

again, this is a cold boot if used for that ice out trip. plan accordingly.

E-mail from "Uncle" Phil Cotton with the Wabakimi Project:

The following e-mail was sent to Dave from Phil Cotton.

When Phil talks about the bound copy of the trip report he's not talking about my on-line version that I wrote. These were the 40+pages of maps consisting of our route and conditions overview, annotated custom map set with field notes, and extensive cross referenced UTM list.

Dave:

I am now the proud owner of a bound and collated copy of your magnificent trip report. I made a second copy for Barry Simon, our map maker, and will hand it over to him when we meet next month at Canoecopia.

I cannot express my gratitude for this welcome addition to our library of canoe route information. It's invaluable and will certainly help move The Wabakimi Project forward towards its ultimate goal of mapping all of the canoe routes in the Wabakimi area.

I do not have Chuck's e-mail address at hand. Please extend to him my heartfelt thanks for his wonderful participation in this contribution.

We are already entertaining several enquiries from interested 'contributors' for this season. They will have to go far to match your accomplishments. You have certainly set the bar high for them.

If Barry and I can be of any assistance to either of you guys in planning future trips, you have but to ask.

By the way, the reason it's taken so long for me to reply is a combination of ill health on my part coupled with a 5-week absence while on the second phase of my Annual Speaking Tour. To all this, you can add the fact that your report took forever to arrive chez moi as the postal code you used (N6K 2R4) is not mine which is P7C 5A2. The one you used isn't anywhere near Thunder Bay. Oh well, all's well that ends well!

Again, our thanks for your efforts on our behalf. Will we see you and/or Chuck at either Canoecopia in Madison next month or at the Midwest Mountaineering Annual Spring Expo in Minneapolis in mid-April? I sincerely hope so! Then, Barry and I can thank you guys in person.

Kindest regards,


"Uncle" Phil

the hundreds and hundreds of UTMs were recorded on chuck's GPS and then downloaded and printed when he got back in. this was important to the Wabakimi Project because the UTMs together with the custom maps can be used to produce beta copies of the Project maps or to update existing beta copies. the UTMs anchor the exact location of features like portage landings, and are in the same format that the Project cartographer uses.

we were able to provide information that was entirely new, or corrected plenty of misinformation on previous maps from a variety of sources.

chuck and i both feel good about taking the time and effort to put all this info together for the Wabakimi Project, a very worthwhile cause. Project maps will eventually cover our entire route, whereas now there is no single reliable source for the information paddlers typically need.