Okay, it appears that I'm the only fan of the Great Nameless. I like its size, the freedom it gives you, for there's no one telling you to camp here and not there, its isolation, leaving you alone on lakes, and its untrampled wildness. Why do the rest of you prefer places with names, like BWCA, Quetico, or Wabakimi?

I have yet to try the Crown Lands. I will cross, but not camp on, Crown Lands on my way into Wabakimi next month.

As an American, i.e. not Canadian, I am culturally biased toward camping at designated campsites in officially recognized and managed government parks. As I was growing up, camping anywhere but in a State or National Park was just unheard of. However, as you might see from my post here about the ELA, I am expanding my horizons a bit.

One main reason I will continue to prefer the parks for canoeing is that I can get maps of the canoe routes showing the portages and, at least suggesting the location of campsites. My bias for wilderness camping is to use established campsites whenever possible. I am no Voyaguer. But as I gain confidence in my mapping capabilites and with the plethora of info available on the internet, I think I will find myself some day in the Great Nameless.

@ jcavenagh

Thanks for replying. You will find, as you foray onto Crown Lands, that there are campgrounds just about everywhere. The flora is so delicate that First Nation folks or folks on snowmobiles or folks like me will pick the best site and that site is used again and again. Even if it's used only once or twice a year, it remains and can spotted from water. Portage trails also abound. It's wilder than the BWCA, but not altogether wild and if you get in a pinch, there are float planes overhead and a fair number of trapper cabins, which, according to the code of the bush, are left open for emergencies.

I had no idea about those things. I am just now looking beyond BW/Q for canoe trips. I will be going to Wabakimi in August and I hope to be in Woodland Caribou next summer. But my 21 yr old daughter has expressed interest in doing a trip with me and I looked over the ELA route. I looks like it may be empty enough for solitude, yet not too remote for easy access in and out.
Are there any routes you have done, or could suggest, which have easier access than a place like Wabakimi? I am looking for a route which will be gentle on a first timer, yet away from all other folks for several days?? Basically, I am looking for the BWCA of the early 1970s. Get my drift?

@ jcavenagh

Do you own an SUV that you're willing to use as an off-road vehicle? If so, use Google Earth. You'll see the logging cuts from space. Drive a little ways, park, put your canoe in the water, and you're off! Not knowing exactly what you'll find is a ton of fun. You're unlikely to see anyone. My brother drove up a long cut and they camped at a lake right beside the road. In two days, they saw two cars pass their lake. Most people who drive trucks want to keep them pretty and scratch-free. Logging roads are tough on an truck or SUV, but they'll take you to a place that's like the BWCA, circa early 1870s.

Alas, I own a Chrysler sedan. I doubt it would survive the logging roads of the Canadian Shield. I'll keep researching and I think I can come up with something.

Just take a paved road and park. You'll have to go a couple lakes into the bush to leave people behind, but it'll be worth it. Or buy an SUV beater and continue its beating!

I am glad to see your interest in canoeing public lands. Here are a few pointers.

You have to be realistic about the goals you set.
-Progress can be sluggish.
-You may end up in really remote areas where you can only count on your own resources.
-You must be aware beforehand of dangerous features like strong rapids, falls, unrunable canyon...

Access is another key point.
-Dirt roads are meant for trucks not regular cars. Google maps will not tell you if bridges are passable or even still there.
-Train is very cheap but the railroads network does not cover much.
-Float planes go everywhere but are very expansive.

Relationship with the other users (Natives, hunters, anglers, forestry and mining workers) is another important consideration. I mostly had good experiences so far but I am sure you don't want to live a Deliverance like scenario...

Equipment requirement is a bit different. Think about chain saw, sat phone, beacon...

Public lands do not always means unregulated area. Some are, some require payment of fees, some are out of bound.

Like anything else, practice makes perfect. An unmaintained canoe route may be a good practice run. Here is a good site for my neck of the wood:

Cartes plein air

Go to Canot/Cartes. Most of those maps are in French but you should figure out what kind of info you need to make a safe trip.

Another site this time in English where you can find trip reports and much much more:

Canadian Canoe Routes

Enjoy!

Frederic, welcome to the site!

Frederic - Welcome to the board! and Thanks for your knowledgeable input. I have been perusing the CCR site for a while now and have seen several reports. That is how I came across the Wabakimi PP and Woodland Caribou PP.

You have touched on several of my concerns, e.g., access to the water, ability to portage from lake to lake, and the public/private land issues. In a park such as Wabakimi I know that all the land is public and is designated for canoeing and camping. In the crown lands I know that is not necessarily the case. The ELA route I mentioned in another thread looks like one that is available to the public with only a little area that might be privately owned.

I think I will use the parks for taking my kids canoeing, but I may get a few men together for something more adventurous in these other areas.

Anytime I am in Canada, I am a guest and I must behave in a manner that is responsible and considerate of those who live there. I need to thoroughly research any trip I may take into the Crown Lands. That research is something I will enjoy.

nojobro, jcavenagh thanks for the greetings!

I am a long time lurker on this forum but I do not post much as I am located in Montreal. This city is the east end of an historic canoe route to Winnipeg via the BWCA.

I will be glad to provide you with specific info if you plan a trip in the Province of Quebec. If you have an interest in white water this is the spot in North America.

I may not be a very useful source of info if you plan a trip elsewhere in Canada. Regulations vary widely from Province to Province. Beside, this kind of info is only valuable if the source is either local or someone who has done it. The best source will be the CCR web site. Folks there are very helpful.

Frederic

@ Frederic

I'll be exploring Quebec in three years when I move to Maine. Nova Scotia and Newfoundland too! I love western Ontario, but I'm sure I'll love the Atlantic provinces just as much.

I've never taken a sat phone or a beacon. I figured I'd just launch a flare at a passing float plane. You got those over there?

missmolly

I ran the Capitachouane river in Abitibi (180 km) May 27th to June 5th. We were relatively close to civilization but it took 9 days before the first human encounter.

Float planes are not always swarming every pieces of the Canadian skies. I would not rely on them unless I know that I am canoeing a well travelled area.

The Atlantic provinces are really nice. The scenery will be a change from Ontario as they are not carved in the Canadian shield.

Okay. Do you own or rent a sat phone? Please tell me more about the beacon.

You may not always need a full set of communication devices. All depends on how remote and well traveled is the area you venture in. Group size is another factor... A pair of canoeists has to pay more attention than a whole bunch.

A note on group size. Best practice is to be at least 6 when canoeing remote areas. But...Can you regularly muster 6 persons for 2 weeks of hardships?

Sat phone is handy to reschedule shuttles, plan resupply on long expedition... Rental is about 150$ per week. Usage is 2$ per minute.

PLB is a very reliable mean of communication in a real emergency:

PLB

A SPOT GPS locator may be all you need:

SPOT

Please bear in mind the following drawbacks with a SPOT:
-Signal is weak.
-Efficiency dwiddles quickly if you are not in a level area.
-You know that a signal has been sent but you have no way to tell if it has been received.
-Personal experience: My relatives lost our signal for 4 days in a row and went very close to call the SAR...

It is also a good practice to tell the SAR authorities (Provincial police in Quebec, varies in other provinces) about your whereabouts in remote area.

Here is a pretty good thread on PLB vs Spot.

PLB vs. SPOT

I think where you go and your purpose for having any device should be carefully considered. I went with Spot because I'm only in Bdub and Q and primarily want to reassure my wife I'm OK. So far never one failed transmission.

Thanks, Bill. That PLB sounds great.

i would not recommend traveling on logging roads. they are not designed for public use and safety is minimal. also these roads are used by loggers and geologic crews, they may be travelling long distances and their speeds will reflect that. they are not expecting traffic and their vehicles will be much larger than yours.

quote jwartman59: "i would not recommend traveling on logging roads. they are not designed for public use and safety is minimal. also these roads are used by loggers and geologic crews, they may be travelling long distances and their speeds will reflect that. they are not expecting traffic and their vehicles will be much larger than yours."

Yikes, dude. Are you speaking from experience? If so, how many days/weeks/months/years have you spent in the bush via logging roads? I get that you prefer parks. That's fine. Most of the Shield isn't parks. I prefer solitude. I admit that I know nothing about the BWCA. I've spent no time there. I have, however, read the trip reports about taken campsites and people at portages. That would be very off-putting for me. Most of the logging roads I know are abandoned. However, they are used by people like me, blueberry pickers, etc. Sure, there are logging roads where the big trucks roar, but those are the exceptions. Whenever approaching crests (and there are many), I'm always tight to the right. That's common sense. Again, what's your background?

i worked as a land surveyor for way too long. i have driven many "abandoned" roads. granted most of that was mid central minnesota. i have made almost a dozen canoe trips on the rivers and lakes between the towns of bloodvien, manitoba and armstrong, ontario, on lands that, at the time, were not named. several of the areas are now protected "named" parks. we had several trips where we used logging roads as portages. most recently, my son has spent the last several summers in this same area as a geologist, he shared with me his experiences driving with drill crews.

i guess it is my son's experiences that made me cringe at the thought of using these roads. but i guess if you are cautious it's probably not a problem. its not as if you can't tell if a road is being actively used.

i get your deal about the BWCA. i actually backpack there more than canoe, the thought of not finding a campsite at the end of a long day really spoils the wilderness experience for me.

so the canadian shield thing and the pursuit of true wilderness. if you go to wabakimi, woodland caribou, or any other such named park you have a good chance of having a very excellent wilderness trip. you will probably not see another group of canoeists your entire trip. if you venture into the crown land wilds in this region your chance of running into geologic exploration crews and other non wilderness users is becoming much greater. geologic crews (and surveyors) have this thing about blaze orange paint and tape. nothing will screw up a wilderness trip more than blaze orange spray paint.

quote jwartman59: "i worked as a land surveyor for way too long. i have driven many "abandoned" roads. granted most of that was mid central minnesota. i have made almost a dozen canoe trips on the rivers and lakes between the towns of bloodvien, manitoba and armstrong, ontario, on lands that, at the time, were not named. several of the areas are now protected "named" parks. we had several trips where we used logging roads as portages. most recently, my son has spent the last several summers in this same area as a geologist, he shared with me his experiences driving with drill crews.

i guess it is my son's experiences that made me cringe at the thought of using these roads. but i guess if you are cautious it's probably not a problem. its not as if you can't tell if a road is being actively used.

i get your deal about the BWCA. i actually backpack there more than canoe, the thought of not finding a campsite at the end of a long day really spoils the wilderness experience for me.

so the canadian shield thing and the pursuit of true wilderness. if you go to wabakimi, woodland caribou, or any other such named park you have a good chance of having a very excellent wilderness trip. you will probably not see another group of canoeists your entire trip. if you venture into the crown land wilds in this region your chance of running into geologic exploration crews and other non wilderness users is becoming much greater. geologic crews (and surveyors) have this thing about blaze orange paint and tape. nothing will screw up a wilderness trip more than blaze orange spray paint."

No one roars down some of those cuts. You simply can't. They're too rough. Too steep. Too much water. Too many boulders. You'd lose an axle. Or a tire. Or your lunch. Sure, there are some relatively flat roads where youngsters driving a company or government truck can scoot, but I haven't found many of those. Blaze orange spray paint doesn't bother me like people. I actually like old traces of folks, like long-abandoned trappers' cabins and rusted bits of metal.

And Wabakimi and Woodland Caribou sound great.

The one major advantage of using the parks, for me, is that I know that I will not run afoul of someone else's expectations or private property. I only get 7-10 days a year to do this so I want to be sure I will be uninterrupted in my leisure.

quote jcavenagh: "The one major advantage of using the parks, for me, is that I know that I will not run afoul of someone else's expectations or private property. I only get 7-10 days a year to do this so I want to be sure I will be uninterrupted in my leisure."

Parks come saddled with expectations too. The BWCA and Quetico have lists of rules.

Alaska is my #1 choice. However, a trip there requires more time off than I can usually muster. BWCA is easy to schedule 5 day vacations- so that's why it's my usual choice. Started researching future trips to Alaska, though.