Thinking about route options for next summer. There will be four of us: two adults, and kids ages 13 and 4. We will be in a Souris River 18.5 with three seats, with the kids sitting together on the wide center seat.

We are considering a tow up Moose to Knife Lake. Then a visit to the Isle of Pines, up Knife, to Vera and Ensign, and back to the tow pick up. Probably 4 nights and two campsites. My main concern (other than my husband does not at all like the tow idea) is whether these lakes are too big for us. Older daughter got nervous last year on Poplar. Though I admit we did a lake crossing (there weren't quite white caps...but almost), and not around the edge...seems like with this route it would be easy to stick near shore.

OK...I just read the portage comments for going in and out of Vera. Does NOT sound like a place I want to go with my kids. The older one has low muscle tone and therefore poor endurance, and also can't carry much weight on her back. And the other one, while clearly built like a strong pony and is a future awesome portage monkey...well, she's only four. And short for her age.

Any other ideas....for a trip to see Isle of Pines? I know older daughter, in particular, would want to see where Dorothy's cabins were.

We are considering doing almost that exact thing with Aurora this spring.

My thinking (probably flawed?)is this.

If we get a tow up the Moose chain, we can be on the water early and HOPEFULLY get most of our paddling in before any potential winds pick up. We'd like to basecamp in the vicinity of Isle of Pines. Then paddle back out the way we came up. Leaving an extra day for any wind problems or having to camp somewhere in between on the way back out.

I guess everyone has their own feelings about getting towed? But I look at like this.
1.) You save a ton of time, thus are certainly more able to get to a destination before the winds pick up.
2.) If you've ever been on the Moose chain? You quickly realize that, odds are, you will not readily find the serene paddling setting you are likely looking for until getting past the tow zones anyway.

Sounds like a great trip! I would do the tow up to Indian Portage (the outfitters will know where that is). Then the paddle and portages up to knife are pretty easy, a couple of them are a bit longer but not much for big hills or mud. On knife there are a ton of options of places to camp and day trips to go on. In addition it is a great lake for swimming! Have a great trip.

P.S. My kids now 12/10 have been going on canoe trips with me forever. When my 10 year old was about 4 we had to boogie out in a hurry and as we came up the Wood Lake Portage to the parking lot, she stayed right on my tail (and I am a fast portager), with a duluth pack full of our sleeping bags. So don't underestimate what kids can do on canoe trips when given the opportunity!

In 2009, we took a tow up Moose Lake to the 5 rod portage into Birch Lake. We made it to Knife Lake, double portaging by early afternoon.

We took the earliest tow possible, at about 7 a.m. We felt like we had the portages to ourselves and this was August.

Coming back was a different story. We did the Knife Lake to Birch Lake portages in late afternoon. It was a zoo. We were lucky to find a campsite near the Moose/Birch portage for pick up the next morning.

From what others have said on this board, going through Birch Lake is way easier than through Vera.

If your goal in Pines Isle, take the tow early in the morning. It will be a great start to your trip.

I would agree with what everyone says about the route through birch being easier than the route through vera. But don't count out a return trip through vera if you want something a bit different. The portage from knife to vera has a couple of pretty good up and downs and the from Vera to Ensign is the same, but I would not necessarily put either of those portages as extreamely difficult. And on the way out, you don't have as much food to carry with you!

quote CrookedPaddler1: "I would agree with what everyone says about the route through birch being easier than the route through vera. But don't count out a return trip through vera if you want something a bit different. The portage from knife to vera has a couple of pretty good up and downs and the from Vera to Ensign is the same, but I would not necessarily put either of those portages as extreamely difficult. And on the way out, you don't have as much food to carry with you! "

My main issue with these portages is not relating to difficulty, really. It's that I have kids along. These are taken from the maps section, comments on these two portages.

"Encounter one spot where my son had to get on his hands and knees to crawl up the hill."

and

"Portage has rough terrain, we were literally walking sideways on rocks at some points to get through. One of the toughest portages I've done, not to length, but to terrain."

One kid is cranky when she has to work hard, and the other is just over 3 feet tall, so obstacles to her are much bigger. Just don't want to deal with the whining from one and the extra helping along from the other.

About twenty five years ago or more I took my then three year old son with some other young guys along with a friend and then wife. We went up into Birch and across to Knife, then down through Vera and Ensign. They are difficult portages, but not so bad if you can take your time on them a little. Of course a three year old didn't have to carry anything, but the eleven and twelve year olds did fine too.

I think the only rough part of the trip was getting stranded on the north end of Moose because of the wind.

Because of the young people involved, I hitched a ride with a boat and got a tow from a friend in town to get us out... We didn't have the funds to hire a tow at that time. I would take the tow with kids as this would also be kind of a boring stretch for them... It was for my dog. :)

With young people I think it's important to slow down a notch and make sure they are enjoying the trip. Take some rests on the portages and don't push them too hard. I just had a visual of Twins87's kids wanting to be sure they did their part on the portage I met them at... What an awesome family.

Tows are expensive, but in my opinion they are really worth it a lot of the time. You get where you want to go faster, and you get there virtually all head winds be darned.

My better half was similarly skeptical about tows until the time we got a ride across Saganaga in bitter winds with huge white caps. Then he finally thanked me and got on board with tows.

I would suggest you stay at one of the bunkhouses at La Tourells the day before you enter. Request way before the trip that you want the first tow out. It will drop you off at the north part of Newfound lake. This way you can get on Knife early in the day. Don't forget to see the ribbon rock or bacon rock. It is on the north side of the island. As far as the portage to Vera It does climb but then it levels out. I have seen much worse portages, at the time I did it I did not think it was that bad. Go for it, take you time and have fun.

I've been on this route many times,the wind can get bad on knife especially if it's coming out of the east or west. Wear your life jacket knife is a pretty cold lake. But the fishing is great, hang your food there are quite a few bears on Knife but most are around the north and south arms.

If you go to Vera the easternmost campsite on the south point is very nice, nice reef for walleyes right out from the site. The portage from Vera to Ensign is steep but not bad especially going from Vera to Ensign. If you'd like anymore info shoot me an email. Finally get the tow to Indian and pick up at splash, we always stay in the yurt at latourells lots of fun

Nice thing about the GPS, checking tracks!

Moose landing to Isle of Pines via Sucker, Birch, Carp, Knife River, 6 portages, 8 hours total travel time, 2 guys in solo canoes double portaging.

Isle of Pines to Moose landing via Vera, Ensign/Splash, 9 hours, 4 portages.

Boat wakes and traffic thru Moose and Newfound,


Passing north of Horseshoe Island.



butthead

I'd highly recommend a tow, especially with kids. With any head wind at all, Moose and Newfound Lake are a LONG paddle.

Hmmm. Still undecided about this. I would really like to do the Isle of Pines thing, but don't want the kids on "big water." However, maybe this is the best time to do it...when we still fit into one canoe. At least right now it's hubby in back and me in front, and not a kid in front.

I'm not sure, also, whether our older daughter will continue to be a canoe tripper once she has more say in the matter. She's a little hesitant about doing this first of all, but visiting Dorothy's islands would be a huge draw (we've been to the Root Beer Lady Museum). Then there is the tow expense. Not bad for one person, but adds up for a family (even if we do get a discount for the kids).

Butthead, thanks for the timing information. That is helpful. We would not be putting in 9-hour days. Or maybe we would, but it would be longer, with longer rest breaks. Do you know whether the tow can go up farther than Moose landing? (where exactly IS moose landing?) I was thinking the motorboat area went farther than Moose. I don't really mind having to travel daily; it gives purpose to the trip.

I'm a little confused but disregarding that, paddling Moose (and I start at CCO south of the EP and measure to PP landing) has been between 2 and 4 hours - the difference between glassy smooth and a strong headwind with white caps - Quetico 17. The tow is around 30 minutes. You can't tow past sucker, so get dropped off at the border and paddle into Birch (why portage when you can paddle?). We were in Carp from PP in about two hours. I've not headed toward Knife but that can't be but an hour or two at most - three miles.

Isle of Pines seems like a great destination from Moose EP or an outfitter. Depending on who you are using and time of day, you could make the tow decision at last minute depending on weather. Not sure all your plans or routines, but consider you could leave Madison in the morning and be on Sucker for dinner, with an early paddle to Knife before noon. I guess it goes against the grain to suggest a midday or afternoon start and just get in a little ways, but we find it beats the motel or bunkhouse and leaving early the next morning. Also, if you do paddle, significantly less motor traffic on Moose in afternoon than in morning. And you can decide on tow back on day going out as well - just paddle to PP landing. Even possible to talk the Canadian Ranger into calling for you!

The track on Moose starts at the EP landing at 8:40 am, paddled to portage to Birch by 10:55 am. Tow can drop you off at that portage, avoiding the largest lakes and boat wakes. Birch, Carp, Knife River and you are into Knife, close to Isle of the Pines.

butthead

Sammie and I did the moose tow to birch when we went to knife lake. It was worth the cash. you get a 7 mile head start, it will allow you to go further the first day in less time. the only portage i was worried about was the long one before you get to knife lake. that was a breeze, its flat, wide,easy walking. when you first get to knife theres a bunch of islands right there around isle of pines. had some good fishging there. should have no problem taking the kids on this trip.

This is a piece of cake trip - the Ensign/Vera portages are a little steep, but not difficult. I have no idea where the 'crawl up the hill on hand and knees' comment came from.

The last time I was on these portages I was passed by a slightly overweight woman and her kids (I had some out of shape Californians to 'babysit').

Isle of Pines - lot of history, though apart from the Ribbon Rock nothing much to see any more. The Decades and Forest Service have seen to that. Nice campsite on the island right across the narrows.

Take the Tow - paddling on Moose and Newfound with tow boats whizzing past isn't much fun, and as noted on a windy day can be a chore. View of Knife Lake seen from the portage over.

I've been going to this area for over 20 years and I agree with the advice from Rapid Runner and Beemer01. The tow is a great way to go. Another option if you're still looking, is to do the tow to Splash Lake and then paddle/camp in Ensign. Base camp on Ensign and take a day trip to Knife to see the "Island". I was at the Island twice last year, and if you look close, you will still see Dorothy's flower gardens. Some flowers were out by June 1st last year.

BeaV

There are some nice sites on Vera. Portage isn't as bad in dry weather. I met a group of young girls double portaging on their first trip to the bdub, and didn't think it was bad.
You will also like the view from the top of Ensign to Vera Portage.

I talked him into the tow! His issue was going to the wilderness but being around motors...what's the point? He said. But I said to think of the trip starting once the tow was over, and he went for that. A matter of perspective. ;-)

Now to plan the date. Best for us based on school schedule/day care being closed is the last week in august, but sometimes phantom has a hard time getting time off then. So we shall see....though it will be hard to wait all summer for the trip!

nojo....did this trip a bunch of years back with wife and kids. We did not take the tow (me...stubborn). Camped first night on Birch (by the portage to Frog). Next day went to Isle of Pines and then camped just to the south of there in a back bay on Knife. On to Vera the next day. Those portages are...umm...not flat, but not vicious. My wife double packed them. Stayed on the mid-lake site on Vera. Next day went to Ensign...had to paddle a while to get a site. Last day, paddled out through Splash and back to Moose. It was July and very hot. We kept the travelling short each day and got sites early and let the kids swim a lot. They enjoyed Isle of the Pines. We toured the museum right before the trip....it added much.
If you stick to the west end of Knife, you never really encounter "big" water. Toughest part IMO is the paddle up through Moose, etc and your tow will avoid that.
Make sure you go all the way to the far west tip of Vera for the portage. There is a winter portage just east aways that confuses people.

Just came across this tread again. The trip I described in my opening post is exactly what we did. The tow was great (if not cheap for a family) and we camped on Knife and Vera, four nights total. The Vera portages were tougher ones, and my husband had to triple portage. It was hot. We traveled early. Paddling out on ensign was tough with 15mph headwinds and mild whitecaps. Constant fairly hard paddling was required. Ensign is gorgeous and it's too bad we couldn't enjoy the scenery more. A good trip!

And by the way, we did deal with whining from one kid about the difficulty of the Vera portages, but did not really have to help the little one along. And she double portaged. (the other one singled portaged....)

Nola - It sounds like you had a good trip, despite the portages between Knife and Ensign through Vera. We are heading up in about three weeks and we will be doing the same trip. We will be taking the tow both ways on Moose. We will be out for a week and we plan on camping on Knife - but instead of camping on Vera we would like to camp on Ensign. Did you have any trouble finding campsites?

Just a few thoughts from one who has been doing this for over 50 years. I started with my parents and much younger siblings at age 14 before there was a BWCA. One brother was 1 yr. I got to carry the steel diaper pail (remember those) for mom. That being said, over the years the biggest mistake I see newbies make is trying tooooooo much on the first trip, especially if the trip has very young children. You want them to enjoy it. Because the trip was kept short and easy that is why my brother (now in his 50's) who was 1 on our first trip still loves the BW. I would suggest a one or two portage trip, easy ones, small lakes, then base camp for a few days and day trip from there. Make it hard and the kids will never want to come back. Day trip and each kid/parent can decide the level of difficulty they want to do. Consider a short, easy trip on small lakes, short, easy portages. Remember if the kids like it you will be back as a family, if they don't separate vacations will rule your household.

Adding my vote for a tow. Moose is quite the haul with kids.

Also wanted to add that Ensign can be a bear - of all those lakes it has the longest stretch of directly east/west running open area.
I have solo paddled that thing going west from the Gibson portage, into white caps - not fun.
So if you choose to include Ensign in your route you may want to make a game day decision dependant on the wind.

nojobro.... tell the hubby thanks for the infoon betties pies. i am now 10 lbs heavier! pie with a side of pie!

Do the portages from Ensign-Vera-Knife in dry weather..
Then do them in rain or when the rocks or wet... the rocks as you get closer to Knife change in texture (the only way I can describe) ,, and are part of the reason why Knife has such clear water. BWJ did a write up about this a few years back on the geology surrounding Knife.
The rocks wet as mentioned above was scary slick,, much differnt then most wet granite I was used to.

quote Rapid Runner: "nojobro.... tell the hubby thanks for the infoon betties pies. i am now 10 lbs heavier! pie with a side of pie!"

Haha. You're welcome....I will tell him.

quote nojobro: "

quote Rapid Runner: "nojobro.... tell the hubby thanks for the infoon betties pies. i am now 10 lbs heavier! pie with a side of pie!"

Haha. You're welcome....I will tell him."

I told him, and he wants to know if you really had "pie with a side of pie." Ha ha.

yes, I had Pie with a side of Pie!

From Moose landing to Birch lake is 1.5 hour paddle for me. To each his own,but I would never get a tow. I think from the Moose lake landing it is a little under 6 miles to Birch lake via the small portage,if you don't want to portage paddle a 0.5 miles to the west where Birch enters New Found, just east of Prairie Portage
Knife lake area is a gem everybody should see. Yes Knife can get windy,especially with its east-west lie.
The Vera lake portage was only bad on the length part. It does speed up a exit tho,than paddling the Knife again.
I think the birch-knife lake paddling is the best there is when weather conditions are good.