For fast flatwater training. Is one faster or lighter than another. I am looking for a training boat, used for day trips. Sit and switch paddle. i weigh around 200-225 lbs, and am a novice. thanks. Would appreciate any advice.

Advantage is narrower and with less free-board. Significantly faster boat than the Prism- some consider it "tippy". Many are quite fond of it as both a training and a tripping boat.

for your use, Advantage over the Prism, as stated above, more narrow and the ends are lower (as a novice you will especially appreciate this, catches wind less), also weighs a couple pounds less
canoe specs change over time, the Advantage may have the same freeboard in the middle or even be slightly higher depending on the year, but this is not a disadvantage given there is more tumblehome on it, some might even say it is an Advantage (yuk yuk)

BTW, you might consider a Voyager, like the Prism it has more freeboard than the Advantage, and is longer and narrower, so at first it will be a handful in wind, and a little spOOkier but ultimately may be preferable over the Advantage. It will be faster and track straighter.

Both 16 6 but the Advantage has no layover at stems to speak of. The Advantage is actually a bit deeper in the center 13 inches vs 12.5 for the Prism, stems are shorter. Advantage is a bit narrower 29.5 max the Prism 30.7.
Advantage has a lower tumblehome bulge and is as wide or a bit wider lower and 3.5 inches less center gunnel width.
Paddling, I like the Advantage better. Either is in the more stable solo canoe category, but the Advantage is more responsive to paddle strokes both strait line ahead and turning, with an easier paddle reach and placement.
Have used my Advantage next to Bell Magics on some of the largest lakes in BWCA/Quetico and feel it as/more seaworthy, taking less water/wave in marginal conditions, while still being as maneuverable (I have spent a lot of time in it though).
The Voyager, while both a bit faster and even more responsive is a bit squirrely in my opinion, with high bulges that seem like armrests. A big step over to enter the canoe (I'm 200+ but 5ft.6in. with short legs), also catches more wind/wave action in the stern. But this is all personal opinion, try to get water time in them to get a better feel for your choice.
Do not know your location but test paddling can be done at Rutabaga in Madison WI. Most Outfitters will accommodate test paddling, and Wingnite get togethers along with MN paddling nites mentioned often by Dan Cooke of CCS.

butthead

Thank you all for your replies.

1. I am in the twin cities.
2. I was looking for a used boat, not a new one.
3. Kevlar,
4. Any other suggestions? A few people have mentioned that the Voyageur is blown about by the wind more than some other boats. Most of the time this will be paddled unloaded.
Thanks again.

I think it is just an extra foot of canoe catching the wind/wave that may make the Voyager feel tail happy. Their are all long solos, all suffer to a degree.
For what it's worth I feel the Advantage is the least affected long tripping solo, by wind. It's tumblehome bubble starts at/below waterline and curves in faster. I put a cover on mine but seldom use it because it is not affected by the wind as much as others.

butthead

One more question (for now).

How does a Bell Magic compare to the other boats? I have one of these in contention too.

thanks again.

My major motivation is I want to be able to use it any time, and not have to wait for a partner. It will spend the summer on top of my car.

I feel it compares best with an Advantage, better turning over speed/quickness, not by a lot though.
May just be me but I think Advantage is a dryer rough water canoe. Most all 16 ft. solos are very comparable, with slight differences playing more to individual personality needs. Best reason to paddle them if you can to help refine your choices.

butthead

I think the Advantage is noticeably faster and straighter tracking than the Magic. The Advantage might be "dryer" in big waves but does not handle big seas well from the side. To me the Magic is more forgiving in rough water- especially if the seas are perpendicular to direction of travel.

The Advantage is my primary tripping boat- have been paddling the same hull for thirty years.

i plan to paddle both before deciding. I am also going to paddle a Sawyer, not sure of the model. Will see what seems to work.

thank you all. I think I have obsessed over this and now have to schedule paddle time.

I only mentioned the Voyager because it would be a better pick than the Prism for what you want. I own one, but an Advantage would be a better choice IMO.
A Magic would be slower than an Advantage from my observation. I've never paddled one, but paddled with many and they are always lagging, although if you ask them, it is the greatest boat ever made. Kinda surprised a Magic owner didn't suggest getting one in post #2. They are so excited about the boat they post every Craigslist ad they see, but maybe it is just to drive the price up.

I paddled a Bell Magic and Sawyer DY. I liked the Sawyer better as it tracked straighter than the Bell and seemed to have a more comfortable seating position for me. I was concerned it is pretty heavy for a solo at >40 lbs. it has a gel coat.

I am also going to try and paddle an Advantage, which weighs about 10 lbs less than the Sawyer DY. Any thoughts on Sawyer DY vs advantage? The boat will live on top of my car much of the summer and I will portage/carry it to different spots to canoe.

HansSolo , Mark is the guy with a ton of info, he must be out trippin' or he'd have replied.
old post heavy on solo canoes
About half way down therad Mart details some about the Sawyer DY Special.

butthead

That's a great thread Butthead. Here is another that pertains specifically to DY designs and related hull lineages including the sawyer DY special and bell magic. Info from Charlie Wilson.

OP, glad you're able to try before you buy. Thought I'd prefer the Merlin II over the Merlin I, but for my novice regular day trip training usage, similar to what you're planning, I prefer the harder tracking design of the Merlin I, which is completely independent from the DY series. Good luck.

http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=1131953

Kona and Butthead,

Thank you for the links. will paddle an advantage tomorrow and decide. it's time to act rather than obsess.

Z

One more thread of interest - the one I meant to link before. If I'm reading correctly this indicates that the DY special is the first in a series that eventually produced the DY magic. Cool.

http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=1208030#1209950

My first solo canoe was an Advantage. I later added a Merlin I which I had for a year and sold. Then I bought a Bell Magic and sold my Advantage which to me was a big mistake. I started looking for another Advantage not long after selling mine to bobbwca. I finally bought another one from a guy on this site a couple years ago. I then sold my Magic. I know a lot of people really like the Magic, but the Advantage suits me better. Love that long glide.

Paddled an advantage today, and was comparing it to a Sawyer DY, which i paddled yesterday and enjoyed paddling. My impressions.

1. The Sawyer DY tracks really straight, is smooth and comfortable, but is really heavy for me out of the water. I have limited space in my garage and would be wedging it on to a shelf, and then putting it on my car.

2. The Advantage tracks just a little less straight in my hands, is smooth and comfortable, but is significantly lighter and would be a better overall fit for me.

3. I was unable to make a reliable assessment about top and cruising speed in either boat.

Thank you all again.

Zehyani