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 Boundary Waters Quetico Forum Winter Camping and Activities Doubling up sleeping bags? Reply
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| Previous Messages: | |
| Author | Message Text |
| tonyyarusso |
03/20/2013 01:05PMquote SevenofNine: "One thing I learned not mentioned in the article is once you have it hallowed out to your liking put a candle inside to heat it up." I actually argue against this practice. The reasoning being that the snow originally is fairly porous, but the candle will melt a small layer and then you end up with a thin sheet of ice on the inside, that prevents the structure from breathing properly, so you have to make more and bigger ventilation holes to get enough air in for the occupants. |
| SevenofNine |
03/20/2013 07:14AMquote bonzm: "I have read this post and notice the mention of hot tents and such. Thanks for the link. Never knew that mixing the snow might help it setup better. One thing I learned not mentioned in the article is once you have it hallowed out to your liking put a candle inside to heat it up. Then open the door to let cold air in and it will setup the inside and make it hard. I imagine the outside air temp would have a big factor in whether this helps. Haven't had time to try this. |
| luft |
03/18/2013 08:34PM I haven't done a "regular 20 degree" bag in a quinzee shelter but I have done a zero degree bag on a regular blue foam pad in one when the outside actual temps were minus 20's. I was relatively warm sleeping except where my body compressed the bag so I just kept flipping from side to side. Next time I would use an Exped down pad as well as the blue foam and I would probably be fine. |
| TuscaroraBorealis |
03/18/2013 08:20PM Bear in mind I have no experience with a 2 bag system. And, I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from using this option. But, one thing that would seem to be of detriment (especially to those of us with weak bladders) is the added time/effort needed to get in/out of the extra bag when nature calls. On a more serious note. My Marmot CWM MemBrain bag has multiple baffles & draw strings that allow regulation for comfortable sleep in 40 above, or below, zero. |
| bonzm |
03/18/2013 06:28PM I have read this post and notice the mention of hot tents and such. Has anyone tried a regular cold (say 20 degree) bag inside a snow shelter? I tried it in the mountains of the west but the temps were no where near what MN can do. It worked quite well and lessened the weight you had to carry since you dump the tent. If you are not familiar with the snow shelter, here's a good site to view it - Snow shelter |
| Soledad |
02/26/2013 08:45PM I have a -25 western mountaineering Puma and I have comfortably taken it down to -30. Takes up far less space on my toboggan and weighs less that any two bag system. I do not worry about getting cold while winter camping in northern MN, and I do not get up to keep the fire going. |
| SteveElms73 |
02/26/2013 07:39PM I agree...I have 7 sleeping bags now lol. My next purchase if this Wiggy's bag doesn't cut it will be a Feathered Friends |
| George |
02/26/2013 07:22PM My first few trips were done by doubling up bags. It works. If you are going to be doing a lot of winter camping, I'd consider springing for a real winter bag. Not cheap, if you want to do it right though. 
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| SteveElms73 |
02/26/2013 07:34AM I just got into hot tenting this year. I got the Kni-Co Alaskan (there big stove) thinking I could heat the tent for half the night. Man was I wrong. As said above, it dies down VERY fast. I too was amazed at how much wood you go through! I have a 2 bag Big Anges system (Lost Ranger and Cross Mountain). I tend to get cold when I sleep and have found in the past when cold tenting, this system did not keep me warm enough on most nights. I ended up buying the Wiggy's Hooded Antartic Hunter (-60) bag last fall. I had it out to about -25 last week and it wasn't bad. I still got a bit cold in the morning (had to pee, needed some food energy) but it was not bad. I stuffed my down parka in the foot bed of the bag and filled a Nalgene with boiling water and put it in a sock (that adds a bit of warmth to your set up). I know Wiggys sells a 2 bag system as well with varying temp ratings. The bag is very well made, but HUGE. The other thing I just don't get with the one I have, is that it doesn't have a neck tube for drafts. Instead it has this cinch cord that pulls the bag around your chest. Works so-so but then you end up with about 3 feet of shock cord inside your bag, wrapping itself around your neck and stuff...bit of a pain. A good pad underneath you is about as important as the bag you are sleeping in (in my opinion). I've had an Exped Downmat 7 for a few years and it works really really well (never felt any cold). |
| Franzenrp |
02/25/2013 04:39PM Got in Sunday and spent six days on Wood L. Another glorious winter outing two double bag were needed at the beginning of the week, and by Friday and Saturday the the down bag was not needed just used the large BA park series bag and had to do plenty of venting to avoid overheating. |
| DanCooke |
01/27/2013 04:23PM In my book. 2 Bags is the way to go. The flexibility of being able to button up tight or open up and adjust to the range of temperatures you may encounter really speaks volumes of why the double bag system is the way to go. |
| billconner |
01/27/2013 04:08PM Just back from a weekend in Wisconsin and double bags great. I do recommend the insulated booties over socks. Worked great and with the soles, good enough for the middle of night trip to a tree without messing with boots. |
| Franzenrp |
01/27/2013 10:23AM Got in Saturday night from a seven night stretch of winter camping using are Snowtreeker Tent. It was cold my temp. gauge bottoms out at -40 F., and that looks about were the mercury was reading. Can't speak about the windchill, but I'm sure it was brisk also. Still spend the days skiing and snowshoeing, and plenty of time gathering wood. The wife and I double bag each with a closed cell foam on the snow. Then we use a Exped 9 deluxe down inserted inside a Big Agnes Elk Park synthetic bag rated for -20 degrees. And finally use a BA Lost Ranger 15 degree down bag inside. We find the whole system keeps us plenty comfy. I have a expander on my down bag for some extra girth I want the freedom to move around some. I sleep with a set of smartwool longies, socks and hat and place my extra clothes in a zipp bag inside the toe box area of the lost ranger gives me some room to stretch my toes. Never felt the need to prewarm the bag with hotwater Used this system for eight or so years and have never been cold, advantage I like using two bags is the ability to let yourself open and vent your system if your to warm many nights the lost ranger might just be on from the waist down, or the Elk Park is completely zipped open. Winter camping isn't always -40 degrees sometimes its above zero, any way this way you're planned for both. |
| GreatBigCubsFan |
01/23/2013 07:28PM Yeah, I've got nothing like that near me but thanks for the idea. I think I will be good for sure down to -10. I just put my stove in the tent and man o man, that thing works well, I know I can't count on that stove for all night but if I get to chilled, I sure will fire it up! It was 25 degrees in the tent and it went straight up to 90 in no time at all. |
| luft |
01/23/2013 07:18PMquote GreatBigCubsFan: "quote Lemieux: "GBCF, If you have an REI near you, they rent sleeping bags. You could call and see if they have any 0ยบ models that you could test drive in your back yard. The University of Minnesota which is near me also rents winter gear so maybe a University near you might have a similar outdoor program that you could rent a bag from for a trial run before you invest in buying a bag. |
| GreatBigCubsFan |
01/23/2013 02:31PMquote Lemieux: "GBCF, I'll be up there 2-4-2013 for 5 nights, solo trip. Ill do some research on those 0 degree bags. |
| Lemieux |
01/23/2013 10:21AM GBCF, Not sure about the quality of this Wiggy -60 bag and it's temp rating but the price is pretty low for this type of bag not to mention the large size and weight when packed. You might be better off buying a good quality 0 degree down bag and double up with one of your other bags, this way you can use your 0 bag in the spring and fall. The Wiggy -60 would be to big, heavy and warm for any other season. When are you taking your trip? Are you going solo or do you have a group? |
| GreatBigCubsFan |
01/22/2013 09:22AMquote Lemieux: "Good to hear, sounds like you stayed plenty warm! It was -30 in Ely MN this morning..." I really don't know how this double bag with blanket set up would do with that, I may go with one of those wiggy's Antarctic -60 bags. |
| Lemieux |
01/22/2013 09:08AM Good to hear, sounds like you stayed plenty warm! It was -30 in Ely MN this morning... |
| GreatBigCubsFan |
01/21/2013 09:08PMquote Lemieux: "Just remember winter camping isn't something to take lightly and your sleeping system must be able to handle the subzero temps without a fire. Thanks for setting me straight, I felt no coldness from under me, I even felt like the new pad was warming me? |
| GreatBigCubsFan |
01/21/2013 06:28AMquote Arlo Pankook: "quote GreatBigCubsFan: "quote Lemieux: "quote Arlo Pankook: "Hey, you might be good to go. I have never owned a high end winter sleeping pad but many swear it makes all the difference. " |
| Arlo Pankook |
01/21/2013 06:14AMquote GreatBigCubsFan: "quote Lemieux: "quote Arlo Pankook: "Hey, you might be good to go. I have never owned a high end winter sleeping pad but many swear it makes all the difference. " Still out there? |
| GreatBigCubsFan |
01/20/2013 07:12PMquote Lemieux: "quote Arlo Pankook: "Hey, you might be good to go. I have never owned a high end winter sleeping pad but many swear it makes all the difference. " I'm going out tonight in my new canvas tent, Mega Mat 10, 2 fall Sleeping bags, hot water in the Nalgene bottle and layers of clothes in the back yard at 0 degrees. The stove hasn't arrived yet so, I though this would be a good way to test the sleep system. |
| canucanu2 |
01/16/2013 09:11PMquote DanCooke: "I have only used a two bag system. My first was a cotton bag with a polyester inner bag, Worked ok down to -20 for a teenager. Then on to a Polarplus outer bag and down inner, good to minus 40, survived -54. Now useing two Big Agness 15 degree bags, cut ample enough for no compression. No insulation on the bottom of these bags, so a downmat 9 goes on the inner and a 1/2" closed cell foam in the outer. I sleeve in Wool long underwear, double layer polarplus oversocks with a neck gaitor and touque. Prevents cool nylon linerwake ups from moving around in sleeping bags. I have stayed warm to - 45 below at 6200 feet of elevation, on top of the snow bank. Very helpful Dan! I have one Big Agnes 15 degree bag without insulation on bottom and a downmat ... i could utilize those with one of my larger sleeping bags on outside. And using neck gaitor with touque makes sense. Any suggestions about dealing with condensation if camping without hot tent? |
| Lemieux |
01/15/2013 08:59AMquote GreatBigCubsFan: "quote Lemieux: "Just remember winter camping isn't something to take lightly and your sleeping system must be able to handle the subzero temps without a fire. If your looking for new gear check out these sites, you can find excellent gear for up to 70% off. steepandcheap TheClymb |
| Lemieux |
01/15/2013 08:51AMquote Arlo Pankook: "Hey, you might be good to go. I have never owned a high end winter sleeping pad but many swear it makes all the difference. " Hey GBCF, I agree with Arlo, you might be good with this sleeping pad and your current bags. It seems to be a well insulated pad with an R value of 9.5 |
| GreatBigCubsFan |
01/15/2013 06:19AMquote Arlo Pankook: "Hey, you might be good to go. I have never owned a high end winter sleeping pad but many swear it makes all the difference. " Ok, I'll try it with my existing bags in my back yard practice. I have the Walmart special mummy bag that claims to be a 5 degree bag. I don't believe since it came in a pack of 2 for $40. I'll pair it with one of my other bags |
| Arlo Pankook |
01/14/2013 10:44PM Hey, you might be good to go. I have never owned a high end winter sleeping pad but many swear it makes all the difference. |
| GreatBigCubsFan |
01/14/2013 10:24PMquote Lemieux: "Just remember winter camping isn't something to take lightly and your sleeping system must be able to handle the subzero temps without a fire. Thank Man, I just pulled the trigger on an Exped Mega Mat 10! Now I need to find a new sleeping bag without breaking the bank! |
| Lemieux |
01/14/2013 09:46PM Just remember winter camping isn't something to take lightly and your sleeping system must be able to handle the subzero temps without a fire. Do your research and if you have any questions please feel free to chime in at anytime, myself or others on this great site will give you the advise your looking for! |
| GreatBigCubsFan |
01/14/2013 09:24PM Yeah, you guys got me thinking about investing in a pad and warmer bags now! I just didn't want to go there if it was not needed. |
| Arlo Pankook |
01/14/2013 09:09PM Yeah, and if you think your buddies are going to peel their lazy butts out of their sleeping bags and stoke that fire in the middle of the night...think again. I learned that lesson year one. Stove tents are great for warming up, hanging out, eating meals and drying your clothes. At night you will probably rely on your bag (bags)and pads. |
| Lemieux |
01/14/2013 07:12PM All PIne I wish their were hardwoods up there but it's not an option. This pile was burnt in one day. |
| GreatBigCubsFan |
01/14/2013 07:01PM No I'm planning on camping in the boundary waters I was hoping I could find some hardwoods but that might be more of a challenge than what I was thinking |
| Lemieux |
01/14/2013 06:56PM If your winter camping the BWCA the wood of choice is Pine but in your case you might have the option of oak or maple to burn which will change my theory. Good Luck! |
| GreatBigCubsFan |
01/14/2013 06:07PM Yeah, I'm going to try the air mat in the back yard 1st. I'm hoping not to use pine, looking for harder woods. If the air mat does as you say and I'm freezing, I'm wanting to do the cot thing. |
| Lemieux |
01/14/2013 05:48PMquote GreatBigCubsFan: "quote Lemieux: "GBCF: Do you use a hot tent or do you cold Camp?" Man, 30 mins til burn out? I was hoping a stoked fire will last me longer than that. I want to keep mine going throught the night or most of it anyway." You have to remember it's a small stove and all your burning is pine. It's not worth the time or energy to keep it going. I noticed your thinking of using an air mattress, this will be a problem since the air inside the mattress will contract when it cools and the mattress will deflate. I would use a closed cell foam pad or an Exped downmat or thermarest. If you want the extra weight and have room to haul a cot go for it. |
| GreatBigCubsFan |
01/14/2013 05:46PMquote Lemieux: "GBCF: Do you use a hot tent or do you cold Camp?" We use a hot tent but let the stove go out, it only takes a half hour or so for the fire to burn out and the temp drops fast before you know it just as cold inside as outside." Man, 30 mins til burn out? I was hoping a stoked fire will last me longer than that. I want to keep mine going throught the night or most of it anyway. |
| Lemieux |
01/14/2013 05:16PM GBCF: Do you use a hot tent or do you cold Camp?" We use a hot tent but let the stove go out, it only takes a half hour or so for the fire to burn out and the temp drops fast before you know it, it's just as cold inside as outside. |
| GreatBigCubsFan |
01/14/2013 04:53PMquote Lemieux: "I double up a 30 degree down bag inside my 0 degree synthetic bag, sleep on a thermarest which sits on top of a cheap blue foam pad all on a tarp/vapor barrier and never had an issue at -20. Do you use a hot tent or do you cold Camp? |
| Lemieux |
01/14/2013 01:43PM I double up a 30 degree down bag inside my 0 degree synthetic bag, sleep on a thermarest which sits on top of a cheap blue foam pad all on a tarp/vapor barrier and never had an issue at -20. These items are all from my spring/summer/fall gear, I have a hard time justifying the extra expense for a serious winter bag which a person might use once a year or less. |
| Arlo Pankook |
01/13/2013 01:53PM I use a 10 degree down bag inside of a 30 degree down bag and double up foam pads and tarps underneath. Have been -20 several times with no issues but that is probably as cold as I would go with this set-up without up grading my pad or one bag. It helps if the outer bag is a little bigger then the inner. |
| GreatBigCubsFan |
01/13/2013 01:33PMquote Papinator: "Matt got me a -20 for Christmas, but I think I am still going to make myself a fleece liner for it... as for Matt, he will be doubling up our 0 bags... but I'd hardly rate them as that, more like 10-20 bags... I'm going to be in a situation like Matt, I'm going to set up my Hot Tent in the back yard in about a week and try my regular Coleman air mattress with a double sleeping bag set up. I have a mummy 20 degree bag and a rectangular 30 degree bag. I'm probably going to put some kind of insulating layer between me and the air mattress. Also, I plan on keeping my stove going through the night. If the air mattress doesn't work, I will buy a Cabalas cot. |
| tonyyarusso |
01/13/2013 12:11PMquote DanCooke: "Now useing two Big Agness -15 degree bags, cut ample enough for no compression. " Wow, really? Both bags are rated for fifteen below? Usually I see people mixing a zero degree bag with a 15 to 30 above. |
| billconner |
01/13/2013 10:34AM I use my summer mummy bag - north face 35 deg holofil I think - inside an older LL Bean -20 rated holofil - for our January scout weekend in Wisconsin and its been great to -20. I just wear flannel pajamas and a pair of heavy socks. I have a wool blanket I use around my head and a DLX9 pad. Toasty! |
| DanCooke |
01/13/2013 10:05AM I have only used a two bag system. My first was a cotton bag with a polyester inner bag, Worked ok down to -20 for a teenager. Then on to a Polarplus outer bag and down inner, good to minus 40, survived -54. Now useing two Big Agness 15 degree bags, cut ample enough for no compression. No insulation on the bottom of these bags, so a downmat 9 goes on the inner and a 1/2" closed cell foam in the outer. I sleeve in Wool long underwear, double layer polarplus oversocks with a neck gaitor and touque. Prevents cool nylon linerwake ups from moving around in sleeping bags. I have stayed warm to - 45 below at 6200 feet of elevation, on top of the snow bank. I like the neck gaitor as it can be raised or lowered to keep the nose warm. |
| Papinator |
01/13/2013 12:13AM Matt got me a -20 for Christmas, but I think I am still going to make myself a fleece liner for it... as for Matt, he will be doubling up our 0 bags... but I'd hardly rate them as that, more like 10-20 bags... We're going out mid Feb. so it'll be interesting what we have to report :) Would like to go out sooner, weather/work permitting, but so far, as our schedules have allowed, the only time we could go out it was going to be 40s after there was lots of snow on the ground. I didn't want to risk the dog coming in and out and getting our sleeping bags muddy/wet. So... if the state of Iowa can remember what "winter" is, we may get out before then. Cross your fingers. |
| tonyyarusso |
01/12/2013 09:28PM Layering is a smart approach. I can't claim to have tried both approaches, but the nice lady at REI (who keep in mind had a material interest in convincing me to buy one of the super expensive low temp bags) told me that the super low rated bags (below 0) weren't worth it, and layering worked better for less money. I haven't camped at -20 yet, but layering two reasonable bags worked for -9 for me. The tricky bit is that you don't want to compress your insulation by not having enough room for the inner bag - it helps if your outer bag is a bit oversized. Otherwise, it may actually be warmer if you leave the outer one unzipped a little. I'd venture to guess that the relative size is more important than fill material for which one is outer and which is inner. Pay attention to condensation/frost buildup in the down though. And if you don't own an Exped DownMat, you may want to double up pads as well. :) |
| carmike |
01/12/2013 08:38PM Hello all, I don't own a winter sleeping bag, but I do have many more summer bags than I need. What if I put a 20 degree bag inside a 30 degree bag? Or, on top of that, added a fleece liner? If I was going to pair a down bag and a synthetic one, would you put the down inside the synthetic, or the synthetic inside the down? Or should I just spring for the -20 (or more) bag? :) |
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