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Barbless hook question

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Date/Time: 10/31/2024 08:01PM

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Barbless hook question

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Previous Messages:
Author	Message Text
Pinetree	02/15/2015 09:40AM When the law first went into effect in Quetico,I was skeptical. Now that I tried it,I It means less severe hooking of myself,the hooks come readily out of a net if entangled(nothing worse than having a fish and net all tangled up at once and trying to get the fish back into the water. Bottom line try it and make your own observation.
unshavenman	02/15/2015 08:40AM I pinched all my barbs beforehand so I wouldn't have to mess with pinching two or three treble hooks when I'm on the water and should be fishing.
Pinetree	02/14/2015 12:40PM quote jeroldharter: "Barbless is the way to go for your own safety and for the other guy in the canoe. A couple of years ago, I had not pinched all of the barbs ahead of time on a fly-in trip in Alaska (not a canoe trip). I got distracted, did not pinch the barb, and then buried the barb in my friend's cheek on what would have been a really long cast. Put a lot of oomph in it. He is a new advocate for barbless hooks. If you really want to reduce mortality, fly fish with barbless hooks." I wanted to fly fish for whitefish when they are surfacing,seen them on Canadian Agnes just 100's at a time surfacing. Caught them on spinners and they taste good.
jeroldharter	02/14/2015 11:34AM Barbless is the way to go for your own safety and for the other guy in the canoe. A couple of years ago, I had not pinched all of the barbs ahead of time on a fly-in trip in Alaska (not a canoe trip). I got distracted, did not pinch the barb, and then buried the barb in my friend's cheek on what would have been a really long cast. Put a lot of oomph in it. He is a new advocate for barbless hooks. If you really want to reduce mortality, fly fish with barbless hooks.
Pinetree	02/14/2015 08:43AM I was talking 90% of lessening of already existing mortality on mainly lake trout from my experience. Not total mortality of total catch. Example studies-barbed showed 6 % mortality,barbless 3%,to me that is 50% less. We could turn and use these numbers in many ways. That number is just a number from my own experience when using trolling plugs for lake trout. It is extremely rare we lose fish now,vs with barb hooks. To be truthful maybe it is only 50% less than before,but for me personally it as least that. Maybe other people do better than I with other methods. Less time handling,usually less bleeding, if net is used less tanglement and many other attributes. One of the biggest losses of fish mortality is handling and some people taking photo's for 5 minutes. I have timed some of those fish shows taking pictures and it is a very long time. We both what is best for the fish. Bottom line most people who try barbless learn to like it.
timatkn	02/14/2015 12:43AM This argument is mute since we both advocate barbless but sorry I just can't stop myself... You initially said above that barbless results in 90% less mortality yet the research you quote shows a 1-2% difference which is a statistically insignificant difference in mortality? ---and you cherry picked the research--I offered an analysis of all the available research. Yes barbless results in a quicker release but the research doesn't indicate (even with lake trout) that there is a statistical difference in fish survival. Anything newer (2005 or later) in research shows no difference. There are great reasons to go barbless but mortality isn't a scientific reason. T
Pinetree	02/13/2015 10:01PM I will agree there is studies on both sides of the barbs vs barbless. Various brook trout studies have shown when hooked in the gullet,barbless mortality was less(both show mortality goes up when hooked there). Most all studies show hook removal time is less on barbless. Wright, Sam. 1992. Guidelines for selecting regulations to manage open-access fisheries for natural populations of anadromous and resident trout in stream habitats. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 12:517-527. “Adding restrictions requiring single hooks, barbless hooks, or flies can provide only relatively small incremental improvements in trout survival. However, managers have realized that these can become important in situations where individual fish are hooked many times. The chance of mortality from a single hooking event was examined for various unweighted combinations of terminal gear from our compilation of research results. The categories and single-event losses were as follows: Barbless hooks with flies 1.76% All barbless hooks (with flies or lures), 2.16% Barbless hooks with lures, 3.00% All hooks with flies, 3.34% Barbed hooks with flies, 3.88% All barbed hooks, 5.86% Barbed hooks with lures, 6.86% Studies in Oregon show salmon mortality is higher in barbed vs barbless.I could of added more links,but never done multi-links at one time. Much of Oregon and the Columbia river expanded to barbless in 2013 and earlier. Yes it is inconclusive in many areas yet. But like Fisheries Biologist Reeves mentioned in the walleye study on Mille lacs,majority of the fish were small and that may of influenced the hooking mortality where hooked. Also when fish are hooked on the jaw in hard cartilage it won't make much difference. Many of these studies lacked quality control in determining long term mortality vs instant or less than 24 hours. Seen studies on bass tournaments,initial release like 90% survive,48-96 hours mortality is over 80%. Those same studies showed temperature was the umber 1 thing determining mortality. Yes the debate will go on and studies will show both ways,other interesting finds in many studies,using bait usually mortality goes up,if you can use larger hooks,usually mortality goes down. Also personally found if your lure size is bigger so fish doesn't swallow it as deep or hooked on the edge mortality goes down. Yes the debate will go on and studies will show both ways I will agree to that. My own observations mainly on lake trout definitely less mortality using barbless and less bleeding when I or my party handles fish.
timatkn	02/13/2015 06:26PM Pinetree quote, "Ontario looked into multi studies before going barbless" Maybe you meant Quetico? Yes they did look at studies and publically admitted the research did not support going barbless as far as fish mortality was concerned and did it to reduce injuries in people. I think one publication where Robin Reilly admitted this was in the BWJ, but this was also brought up in public forums when pressed. They might say that in their brochures... But whoever accused government agencies of being accurate:) Look, barbless is good. You shouldn't lose more fish, your not going to waste time unhooking a barbed hook out of your vest or gear, you get better hook set than barbed.it is safer for yourself if you have an accident and hook yourself, it is easier to let fish go... I'm all for it, but I have a research background so when people make statements based on personal bias/experience and not what multiple studies show I have to say something. A lot of times what you think you see happening is far from the reality....For example, I did a study for Gatorade and anti-oxidants and I'd swear it made a difference in sports recovery based on observations---we thought we had the next big thing in sports--- but the actual evidence was different. This happens all the time it's hard to explain unless you have been through it before. Hooking mortality review Here is a good literature review of the available research on barbless vs. barbed at least the most recent I could find. T
Pinetree	02/13/2015 08:18AM Put it this way most studies show barbless do much less damage. Disregard studies,from my own experience and being big on lake trout fishing. The mortality you once had will drop 90%. Your not tearing the hook out where it is sunk in,you can just ease it out just like a surgeon doing a operation and leaving lot less damage. If a barbed hook is hooked down the throat at all it is almost always 100% mortality,it will be lot less with barbless. Lot of the fish come right off once you release the pressure like in a landing net vs minutes trying to get the hook out and maybe tangled into the net. Try barbless and most people love it. Ontario looked into multi studies before going barbless. Yellowstone park in one barbless area had a cutthroat released 22 times. That would not happen with barbs.
timatkn	02/13/2015 07:49AM quote arctic: "quote ParkerMag: "quote OldGreyGoose: "It's "pinch 'em as you use 'em." No need to do the others, but why not just pinch them all? --Goose" Well, I'm not sure yet how good a question for me that is! Over the course of 12 months, Quetico fishing would make up a fairly small part of my whole. And not knowing how fishing barbless hooks is going to treat me (fish landed vs. fish hooked), I'm a bit hesitant to go long and pinch them all down. How seldom I kill fish could affect that too, I suppose. I will say, however, that me or someone I'm with taking a hook barb-deep is the hazard I most often think/worry about and dread. Barbless hooks are awfully appealing in that respect!" Old habits and assumptions die hard, but the fact is barbless is a VERY effective way to fish that increases the survival of released fish and decrease the severity of hook injuries on humans. I, like many folks on this board, have been snagged with barbed hooks, and the result is never fun. Go barbless--even if you aren't legally required to do so. " Arctic--I agree barbless is safer for people and makes it easier to release soem fish but it isn't a fact it increases fish survival. Scientific studies disagree on this due to the fact barbless hooks allow deeper hook penetration causing more arterial damage to fish and can actually increase delayed hooking mortality. Barbs do more superficial damage while barbless does less superficial damage but more internal. Overall it seems to be a wash as far as survival due to these factors. I like barbless too for many reasons, but it's not a slam dunk for fish everyone thought it was. I posted a bunch of the research on here a few years back. T
CardinalNation	02/12/2015 10:56PM Use LipLocker barbless treble hooks everywhere I fish and can't remember the last time I lost a fish because I was barbless https://www.redrockstore.com/index.php/barbless-hooks
JJ396	02/01/2015 09:00AM I've gone barbless and don't go to Quetico.
ParkerMag	01/29/2015 06:40AM Great answers and input, thanks very much. Think I'm clear on a direction to take at this "point"!
TomT	01/28/2015 08:36PM Besides the safety factor I like the sporting aspect of it too. Gives the fish a chance. It's usually not a problem losing them unless it's a bass. I've lost a few nice ones to their ariels. They got the best of me.
Pinetree	01/28/2015 08:09PM well spoken
arctic	01/28/2015 07:45PM quote ParkerMag: "quote OldGreyGoose: "It's "pinch 'em as you use 'em." No need to do the others, but why not just pinch them all? --Goose" Well, I'm not sure yet how good a question for me that is! Over the course of 12 months, Quetico fishing would make up a fairly small part of my whole. And not knowing how fishing barbless hooks is going to treat me (fish landed vs. fish hooked), I'm a bit hesitant to go long and pinch them all down. How seldom I kill fish could affect that too, I suppose. I will say, however, that me or someone I'm with taking a hook barb-deep is the hazard I most often think/worry about and dread. Barbless hooks are awfully appealing in that respect!" Old habits and assumptions die hard, but the fact is barbless is a VERY effective way to fish that increases the survival of released fish and decrease the severity of hook injuries on humans. I, like many folks on this board, have been snagged with barbed hooks, and the result is never fun. Go barbless--even if you aren't legally required to do so.
CrookedPaddler1	01/28/2015 03:02PM quote Pinetree: "You will be surprised how few fish you lose while using barbless. Just keep the line tight." I watched a fly fishing video a few years ago by Lefty Kreh, while discussing the use of fishing barbless, he hood a farm pond bass. To illustrate his point, he set the rod down on the ground, continued talking, then picked up his rod several seconds later, the fish was still there! A pretty amazing bit of video.
Kiporby	01/28/2015 02:58PM quote joetrain: "I started fishing barbless some years ago because of the Quetico rules and do it now even at home. No problems at all. ~JOE~" +1!!
Kiporby	01/28/2015 02:58PM quote Pinetree: "You will be surprised how few fish you lose while using barbless. Just keep the line tight." +1!!
joetrain	01/28/2015 02:48PM I started fishing barbless some years ago because of the Quetico rules and do it now even at home. No problems at all. ~JOE~
Pinetree	01/28/2015 02:22PM You will be surprised how few fish you lose while using barbless. Just keep the line tight.
CrookedPaddler1	01/28/2015 02:11PM If it were me, I would have small "quetico" tackle box, in which every lure is barbless. I don't want to have any question that I have been fishing barbless when I meet the warden.
Kiporby	01/28/2015 11:54AM Agreed. Only the lure that is on your line needs the Barbs pinched down or be "barbless".
ParkerMag	01/28/2015 10:37AM quote OldGreyGoose: "It's "pinch 'em as you use 'em." No need to do the others, but why not just pinch them all? --Goose" Well, I'm not sure yet how good a question for me that is! Over the course of 12 months, Quetico fishing would make up a fairly small part of my whole. And not knowing how fishing barbless hooks is going to treat me (fish landed vs. fish hooked), I'm a bit hesitant to go long and pinch them all down. How seldom I kill fish could affect that too, I suppose. I will say, however, that me or someone I'm with taking a hook barb-deep is the hazard I most often think/worry about and dread. Barbless hooks are awfully appealing in that respect!
OldGreyGoose	01/28/2015 10:29AM It's "pinch 'em as you use 'em." No need to do the others, but why not just pinch them all? --Goose
thinblueline	01/28/2015 08:39AM My understanding of the regulations is the barbless hook rule only applies to the lure you have tied on, and not to the rest of your box.
ParkerMag	01/28/2015 08:31AM Does barbless apply only to what's in the water, or tied on a line, or does everything in my box need to be barbless as well?