Are these allowed in the BW or Q?

I’ve used a trap as a sail before. I found two straight long poles laying in the woods and tied the tarp to them. We sailed the whole length of Pine Lake with these. It’s my understanding that if it is a homemade sail it’s ok. But a sail that’s attached to the boat or canoe with hardware is Not legal.

Not sure about the Q.

That is my understanding, nothing attached to the boat.
I recall a nice tailwind coming down Kahshahpiwi in the Q. Bow paddler used his and the spare paddle tying the poncho liner to the paddles. A fun ride but I do recall a couple times thinking we would tip. Hal was good about letting the wind out of the sail.
How would you hand hold as a soloist?

I’ve been taking my wife in the Falls the last few years
She’s always looking for new ways to add weight and irritate me. LOL
We usually do a semi basecamping trip so it’s not that big a deal
I just don’t want a ticket

AmarilloJim: "I’ve been taking my wife in the Falls the last few years
She’s always looking for new ways to add weight and irritate me...."

Just what are you implying here? I'm guessing she doesn't read this!!

Shouldn't stand in a canoe, and isn't the load limit in those 3 people...

jhb8426: "Shouldn't stand in a canoe, and isn't the load limit in those 3 people..."

What about gunwale jumping?

Also, looks like they have 4 canoes rafted which makes standing pretty easy.

Tuscarora Borealis- Looks like a VOBS crew... Do you recall what lake you took the picture?

TuscaroraBorealis: " "

Now that is how it's done!

My wife bought me one of these for Christmas. It technically can attach to the canoe, but I wonder if the person in the bow just holds it, would that make it legal? I haven't used it yet, but it looks like a good idea for just the right circumstance, folds down like a popup tent and is really light. Anyone know the answer?

scotttimm: "
My wife bought me one of these for Christmas. It technically can attach to the canoe, but I wonder if the person in the bow just holds it, would that make it legal? I haven't used it yet, but it looks like a good idea for just the right circumstance, folds down like a popup tent and is really light. Anyone know the answer? "

I’ve used this exact setup a number of times in Quetico. The bowman’s feet are on the lower part, while arms are used to secure the lines and adjust to differing winds. Unfortunately, most times we’ve brought this gear, we’ve been in a headwind. :-(

scotttimm: "
My wife bought me one of these for Christmas. It technically can attach to the canoe, but I wonder if the person in the bow just holds it, would that make it legal? I haven't used it yet, but it looks like a good idea for just the right circumstance, folds down like a popup tent and is really light. Anyone know the answer? "

This one is just fine if you want to use it. Just tie off the sail cord to the canoe. The key to a legal sail is it’s not permanently mounted to the canoe.

It would be interesting to hear a FS opinion on the circular sails. Masts and sails are rarely permanently mounted to a sailboat and there are sailboats that don't even use hardware to do that.

Whether or not it is permanent doesn't matter- its not allowed if considered "mechanized equipment" and complex rigging of sails falls under this category, but simply holding up a tarp with two paddles isn't considered mechanized.

We have used the rain fly w/paddles. I was always glad I wasn’t in the bow of the outermost rafted up canoes since those guys acted as the masts.

I’m not questioning holding up a tarp with paddles. Have at it, sounds like fun. I’m asking about the commercially made circular sails and was using the terms SavageVoyageur suggested as making something a sailboat. I’m just not clear on what is meant by complex rigging either. In other threads people mentioned hinges on the rudder or boom as a mechanism. I’m pretty sure I can design a sailboat without any hinges but that will require a handheld rudder and leeboards which will get tiring.

I carry a bed sheet, flannel sheets are a little heavier weight. Unless you are going to use lee boards, or lash spare paddle to the gunwales you can only really sail down wind (running). With two canoes along side, either held near each other or lashed with poles, the bow people can hold the sail while those in the stern can steer.

On the Upper Missouri R in Montana we frequently had west winds and could use a sail. The current was around 3 knots. With a sail we were making more like 9-10 knots with rooster tails, It feels like flying.

Savage Voyageur: "

scotttimm: "
My wife bought me one of these for Christmas. It technically can attach to the canoe, but I wonder if the person in the bow just holds it, would that make it legal? I haven't used it yet, but it looks like a good idea for just the right circumstance, folds down like a popup tent and is really light. Anyone know the answer? "

This one is just fine if you want to use it. Just tie off the sail cord to the canoe. The key to a legal sail is it’s not permanently mounted to the canoe. "

Apparently, these types of sails are not allowed. Here is the official response from the FS:
Hey Scott,



I apologize for the wait and thank you for your patience on my response.



As I had thought, the aftermarket sail you referenced would be considered mechanical transport and not allowed under Wilderness regulations. Everything motorized or mechanized (and a sail is considered mechanized) is prohibited except what was specifically provided for in the legislation (motorized use on select lakes with horsepower limits).



The good news is that if your goal is to use the sail, the Forest has many lakes and backcountry camping opportunities outside the Wilderness where your sail could be utilized. If I can provide further information on these opportunities, please let me know.



If I can clarify any of the above information or be of any further assistance, please don’t hesitate to ask. Go State!



Regards,

Thanks for chasing down and sharing that info.

I don't know about a canoe, but an umbrella works in a kayak plus it provides shade on the water and on land. Low tech :-)

LilyPond: "I don't know about a canoe, but an umbrella works in a kayak plus it provides shade on the water and on land. Low tech :-)"

A pair of “seasoned” paddlers smoked is on Crooked a few years ago with a big, stiff umbrella held by the bow paddler in a tailwind.