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Date/Time: 03/31/2020 01:44AM
Maps Arrived, Oddly Excited

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Previous Messages:
Author Message Text
WonderMonkey 12/20/2018 01:05PM
boonie: "You don't really need the GPS to get a good enough average speed. I didn't use one to get mine. It's an inexact science anyway, since it will vary with conditions - headwind, tailwind, blowdown, rocks, mud, beaver dams, etc. I do it for both paddling and portaging.


If I measure it on the map as 1 mile from the portage in to the portage out, and calculate it should take 15 minutes, then I'll stop and double check if it's been 30 minutes and I'm not paddling into a gale-force headwind.


You just need a general idea."



Very true using "What I just did" math instead of what I was going to do.
boonie 12/20/2018 12:26PM
You don't really need the GPS to get a good enough average speed. I didn't use one to get mine. It's an inexact science anyway, since it will vary with conditions - headwind, tailwind, blowdown, rocks, mud, beaver dams, etc. I do it for both paddling and portaging.


If I measure it on the map as 1 mile from the portage in to the portage out, and calculate it should take 15 minutes, then I'll stop and double check if it's been 30 minutes and I'm not paddling into a gale-force headwind.


You just need a general idea.
WonderMonkey 12/20/2018 10:45AM
boonie: "Just to echo the thoughts of some others, I used a SealLine for about 12-15 years, and just replaced with a Sea-to-Summit last year. The medium size has worked well. Both can be viewed on both sides and both can be clipped with small 'biners to the pack in front of me. I also keep my permit, route notes, small notebook and pens in there.


I also think you'll find on water navigation easy since you are pretty much confined to the lake or portage. Basically you just need to be aware of your general direction and keep track of landmarks such as islands, bays, peninsulas, campsites, portages. It's a little more involved on large lakes, but not much more than a general bearing usually.


It helps to get a general idea of your paddling speed."



The only way I could get an idea of my paddling speed is to use my backup GPS device. Otherwise, I'm not experienced enough on lakes to judge. Maybe I'll fire it up and watch it for a while to start and get an idea of what that is. I do know that if I am thinking "How long to get to THATPLACE?" I'd like to test myself (part of land nav as well) to see how close I am, given what happens.


I do know that unless I learn differently I'll use the techniques I use for land nav. In addition to ensuring that what I'm seeing on the map is what I'm actually seeing, I'll be using landmarks to guide my path. These landmarks could be to the side or in front, etc.
WonderMonkey 12/20/2018 10:39AM
TomT: "WonderMonkey: "AmarilloJim: "I use a gallon size zip lock bag. I will usually enlarge or minimize a map on a copy machine and write tripping details that I want on those. I think BH laminates maps that he downloads."


I was actually thinking of doing something similar just to get what I needed in front of me, and no issues writing on it if I want."



I use the Adventure Map and McKenzies too. I like to write on the McKenzie because - why not? It's good to have the notes if I come back that way in the future. I usually mark actual campsites and give a number rating and sometimes details like "great landing" or "No hanging trees" (I use a hammock).


I don't use a ziplock for two reasons. It's too small and I can't clip a carabiner to it. I clip my seal line case (largest) to my pfd for portaging. I hand carry them. I can also clip it to a small D-Ring I fastened to my thwart on windy days.


This large size case is very convenient. It never has leaked either. I used to use a case with velcro closure but it constantly leaked water. It's an investment that should last for years.
"

I'm a hanger as well.


I would write on the map but I'd do it after my trip. During I'd keep the info in a notebook. I do this currently but during backpack trips so once I'm on the water I may change that due to whatever comes up. I like to analyze the results of a trip (which means I capture the trip) and would then make notes on the map.


As for the ziplock, good points. Again for backpacking I use a ziplock but I have no need to attach the map, just pull it out of a pocket and use it.


I'll put a tick mark mark in the large size for the Sea Line, thanks for the input!
boonie 12/20/2018 08:45AM
Just to echo the thoughts of some others, I used a SealLine for about 12-15 years, and just replaced with a Sea-to-Summit last year. The medium size has worked well. Both can be viewed on both sides and both can be clipped with small 'biners to the pack in front of me. I also keep my permit, route notes, small notebook and pens in there.


I also think you'll find on water navigation easy since you are pretty much confined to the lake or portage. Basically you just need to be aware of your general direction and keep track of landmarks such as islands, bays, peninsulas, campsites, portages. It's a little more involved on large lakes, but not much more than a general bearing usually.


It helps to get a general idea of your paddling speed.
TomT 12/20/2018 07:36AM
WonderMonkey: "AmarilloJim: "I use a gallon size zip lock bag. I will usually enlarge or minimize a map on a copy machine and write tripping details that I want on those. I think BH laminates maps that he downloads."


I was actually thinking of doing something similar just to get what I needed in front of me, and no issues writing on it if I want."



I use the Adventure Map and McKenzies too. I like to write on the McKenzie because - why not? It's good to have the notes if I come back that way in the future. I usually mark actual campsites and give a number rating and sometimes details like "great landing" or "No hanging trees" (I use a hammock).


I don't use a ziplock for two reasons. It's too small and I can't clip a carabiner to it. I clip my seal line case (largest) to my pfd for portaging. I hand carry them. I can also clip it to a small D-Ring I fastened to my thwart on windy days.


This large size case is very convenient. It never has leaked either. I used to use a case with velcro closure but it constantly leaked water. It's an investment that should last for years.


WonderMonkey 12/19/2018 08:37PM
WIMike: "Jaywalker: ""Maps Arrived, Oddly Excited" - maybe for you, but that would be a very normal reaction for me. I love maps. I seriously bet a full week doesn't go by year round when i don't pull out a canoe country map and start examining some aspect. The fun doesn't start when our paddles get wet - it starts right now! "


+1 I've always loved maps too. Maps of all types--hiking, canoeing, fishing. I have lake maps that I pore over all winter in anticipation of open water fishing. Canoe trips are especially good for map enthusiasts because one can research routes, campsites, fishing lakes etc. I like planning all most as much as the trip itself. "



Agreed! Even more fun if others going have some level in participation. My friend and I talk about things that are not outdoors, but quite a bit of it is about gear and what our next trip will be.
WIMike 12/19/2018 08:00PM
Jaywalker: ""Maps Arrived, Oddly Excited" - maybe for you, but that would be a very normal reaction for me. I love maps. I seriously bet a full week doesn't go by year round when i don't pull out a canoe country map and start examining some aspect. The fun doesn't start when our paddles get wet - it starts right now! "


+1 I've always loved maps too. Maps of all types--hiking, canoeing, fishing. I have lake maps that I pore over all winter in anticipation of open water fishing. Canoe trips are especially good for map enthusiasts because one can research routes, campsites, fishing lakes etc. I like planning all most as much as the trip itself.
WonderMonkey 12/19/2018 04:13PM
tumblehome: "Duluth Pack used to, maybe still does a map case that is a little larger than a one gallon zip lock but more rugged. Heavy clear plastic and a velcro closure. I also put a bag of Werthers in it for snackie time as I paddle.
Tom"



If a person can have snacks and opts not to, isn't that some sort of odd?
WonderMonkey 12/19/2018 04:11PM
Jaywalker: ""Maps Arrived, Oddly Excited" - maybe for you, but that would be a very normal reaction for me. I love maps. I seriously bet a full week doesn't go by year round when i don't pull out a canoe country map and start examining some aspect. The fun doesn't start when our paddles get wet - it "


Preparing for the trip is a great deal of the fun. I have four Winter outings planned and I go into great depth getting ready for them. Not all participants jump in on that which is fine but from start to finish I enjoy it.
WonderMonkey 12/19/2018 04:10PM
paddlinjoe: "I currently use a Sea to Summit map case. Regardless of manufacturer, having a clear case on both sides is something I appreciate to help reduce the number of map refoldings required.
"



I had not thought of making sure both sides are viewable, I can see where that would help.
WonderMonkey 12/19/2018 04:09PM
Jackfish: "ParkerMag: "WonderMonkey: "One of the things I'll be asking soon is the size of map case most people get.


My 1st choice - by a wide margin...


Map case "

I like the CCS Pathfinder Thwart Bag, too, but I also have a Sealline map case. The bow paddler likes to look at a map and this one works well on either end of the canoe."



I have one very similar for my kayak and is my "I'll need to do better than this to not get it again".
WonderMonkey 12/19/2018 04:08PM
AmarilloJim: "I use a gallon size zip lock bag. I will usually enlarge or minimize a map on a copy machine and write tripping details that I want on those. I think BH laminates maps that he downloads."


I was actually thinking of doing something similar just to get what I needed in front of me, and no issues writing on it if I want.
WonderMonkey 12/19/2018 04:07PM
ParkerMag: "WonderMonkey: "One of the things I'll be asking soon is the size of map case most people get.


My 1st choice - by a wide margin...


Map case "



Thanks. That combines another need as well.
tumblehome 12/19/2018 03:53PM
Duluth Pack used to, maybe still does a map case that is a little larger than a one gallon zip lock but more rugged. Heavy clear plastic and a velcro closure. I also put a bag of Werthers in it for snackie time as I paddle.
Tom
Jaywalker 12/19/2018 02:52PM
"Maps Arrived, Oddly Excited" - maybe for you, but that would be a very normal reaction for me. I love maps. I seriously bet a full week doesn't go by year round when i don't pull out a canoe country map and start examining some aspect. The fun doesn't start when our paddles get wet - it starts right now!


Everyone's innate skill in orienting themselves is different, but I'll bet you'll find navigation on a lake easier than on land as you can usually see further and more identifying features. I would never go without a compass, but I rarely use it.


Like AmerilloJim, I just use a gallon freezer zip lock bag and am happy. Usually last the whole trip, and if not I have spares. Many would not accept this approach, but has work for me for 20+ trips. Maybe I'll get a nice one some day, but there always seems to be other gear higher on the priority list.


Have fun!.
paddlinjoe 12/19/2018 01:48PM
I currently use a Sea to Summit map case. Regardless of manufacturer, having a clear case on both sides is something I appreciate to help reduce the number of map refoldings required.


Jackfish 12/19/2018 10:48AM
ParkerMag: "WonderMonkey: "One of the things I'll be asking soon is the size of map case most people get.

My 1st choice - by a wide margin...

Map case "

I like the CCS Pathfinder Thwart Bag, too, but I also have a Sealline map case. The bow paddler likes to look at a map and this one works well on either end of the canoe.
AmarilloJim 12/19/2018 09:05AM
I use a gallon size zip lock bag. I will usually enlarge or minimize a map on a copy machine and write tripping details that I want on those. I think BH laminates maps that he downloads.
ParkerMag 12/19/2018 09:01AM
WonderMonkey: "One of the things I'll be asking soon is the size of map case most people get.


My 1st choice - by a wide margin...


Map case
WonderMonkey 12/19/2018 04:32AM
Jackfish: "IMO, you got the best maps for Q.

Just remember, when you travel, always have the map oriented to your direction of travel. In other words, if you’re headed south, your map will be “upside down” as you look at it. If you’re headed east or west, your map will be sideways. You always want to be able to follow the landforms during your travel. "

Got it, thanks for the tip! That's exactly what we do on land nav as well. Other than getting the map out, it's the first step.

One of the things I'll be asking soon is the size of map case most people get. I certainly don't want "too small" and have to pull my map out and refold all the time but I'm sure there is also "too big". I'll also ask about how to keep the map and compass out and make it useful. In my kayak, I clip all this onto my "deck" and I'm sure there is a normal way for people to do it in canoes when traveling.
Jackfish 12/19/2018 01:27AM
IMO, you got the best maps for Q.


Just remember, when you travel, always have the map oriented to your direction of travel. In other words, if you’re headed south, your map will be “upside down” as you look at it. If you’re headed east or west, your map will be sideways. You always want to be able to follow the landforms during your travel.
WonderMonkey 12/18/2018 09:13PM
First trip into Quetico. Maps arrived today. I got an overview map from "The Adventure Map" and two detailed ones that cover our trip from McKenzie.

It is going to be fun to navigate on the water. I'm fluent on land nav but have never done it by water. The perspective will be different, I'm sure.